Class - Specialization Power Rankings

[Swagg.9236]

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Swagg.9236 said:My core staff ele build (2013):Attack: <3 <3 <3 <3Defense: <3Control: <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3

The exact same build in 2018 despite LUDICROUS powercreep:Attack: <3 <3 <3Defense: <3 <3Control: <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3Revives: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

@Alatar.7364 said:

@"Burnfall.9573" said:

http://www.tentonhammer.com/articles/guild-wars-2-are-thieves-and-mesmer-s-the-cause-of-the-meta

'It isn’t often that I’ll feel inclined to point the finger at a class or two in a massively multiplayer game and blame it for the woes of an entire game mode. While I certainly wouldn’t go that far here, I do believe the Thief and Mesmer and some of their mechanics are the cause of many problems in Guild Wars 2’s PvP'

Thief and Mesmer(all specializations included)

Attack- <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Defense <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Control <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Evasion <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

????????

It's 2015 post by a guy who thinks Thieves run Berserker amulet and as an example of the

"massive burst dmg'

posts a 4,6k backstab vs Light Armor target which is god.kitten

NOTHING

compared to what most of the power professions can do with much better frequency.

Literally

the only thing in that post which was true is that Thief has access to more stealth than others. Thief was +1 even before 2015... wonder how is that since that guy makes it sound like such an ultimate 1v1 killer.

You say all that, and yet Thief and Mesmer have the exact same sort of builds even now. There has been zero deviance from their core playstyles despite sometimes getting extra buttons

So??Thief having the very same build as it always had, has

absolutely nothing

to do with

anything

in that post.That Thief still has D/P and S/D Build somehow confirms that clueless guy theory that Thief is a 1v1 God with best at everything even though there is no logical correlation?

Two whole classes only have one play-style: playing super passive until one has enough resource or cooldowns to rotate through a PvE-tier DPS rotation saturated with teleports and protracted evasion periods. This play-style has survived all the way through the game's historical continuity, and has even been outright replicated and shoved into other classes. Just because Thief and core Mesmer might not populate the top rankings any more doesn't somehow mean that their shallow, low-effort play-style isn't yet the meta-shaping gravity well which siphons the IQ of all who participate in PvP. It's sort of like this one player who told me about how nobody should complain about conditions because his autoattack-centric Mesmer build doesn't get guaranteed kills with his strategy: just because something is ineffective within the grand scheme of the GW2 PvP environment doesn't mean that it doesn't deserve to be scrutinized and criticized for being unhealthy for competition and skillful play.

The Thief D/P build is incredibly passive and flighty despite being able to inflict lethal damage with impunity due to teleports and stealth spam; the S/D build consistently negates any importance of positioning and timing by teleporting through walls at will and attacking while evading. Neither of these things encourage any sort of skillful play. They just encourage turtling as a response and rock-paper-scissors reactions to a class which engages combat in a manner similar to people what one might see in a Peer-to-Peer FPS server. It's complete silliness.

Basically, the problem with Thief (and Mesmer) has always been that the user dies only because the user "messed up." There is almost zero reason that a Thief should ever die in any circumstance; it simply has too many means to escape or attack with impunity (even if said attacks don't necessarily result in a kill). Coupled with the fact that it can freely teleport across a map in a gamemode dominated by capturing stationary circles by standing inside of them, it means that it's often in the hands of the Thief itself whether or not the Thief dies in any given fight, and that's the cancerous paradigm that it has spread to other classes.

[Quadox.7834]

@Swagg.9236 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Swagg.9236 said:My core staff ele build (2013):Attack: <3 <3 <3 <3Defense: <3Control: <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3

The exact same build in 2018 despite LUDICROUS powercreep:Attack: <3 <3 <3Defense: <3 <3Control: <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3Revives: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

@Alatar.7364 said:

@"Burnfall.9573" said:

http://www.tentonhammer.com/articles/guild-wars-2-are-thieves-and-mesmer-s-the-cause-of-the-meta

'It isn’t often that I’ll feel inclined to point the finger at a class or two in a massively multiplayer game and blame it for the woes of an entire game mode. While I certainly wouldn’t go that far here, I do believe the Thief and Mesmer and some of their mechanics are the cause of many problems in Guild Wars 2’s PvP'

Thief and Mesmer(all specializations included)

Attack- <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Defense <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Control <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Evasion <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

????????

It's 2015 post by a guy who thinks Thieves run Berserker amulet and as an example of the

"massive burst dmg'

posts a 4,6k backstab vs Light Armor target which is god.kitten

NOTHING

compared to what most of the power professions can do with much better frequency.

Literally

the only thing in that post which was true is that Thief has access to more stealth than others. Thief was +1 even before 2015... wonder how is that since that guy makes it sound like such an ultimate 1v1 killer.

You say all that, and yet Thief and Mesmer have the exact same sort of builds even now. There has been zero deviance from their core playstyles despite sometimes getting extra buttons

So??Thief having the very same build as it always had, has

absolutely nothing

to do with

anything

in that post.That Thief still has D/P and S/D Build somehow confirms that clueless guy theory that Thief is a 1v1 God with best at everything even though there is no logical correlation?

Two whole classes only have one play-style: playing super passive until one has enough resource or cooldowns to rotate through a PvE-tier DPS rotation saturated with teleports and protracted evasion periods. This play-style has survived all the way through the game's historical continuity, and has even been outright replicated and shoved into other classes. Just because Thief and core Mesmer might not populate the top rankings any more doesn't somehow mean that their shallow, low-effort play-style isn't yet the meta-shaping gravity well which siphons the IQ of all who participate in PvP. It's sort of like this one player who told me about how nobody should complain about conditions because his autoattack-centric Mesmer build doesn't get guaranteed kills with his strategy:

just because something is ineffective within the grand scheme of the GW2 PvP environment doesn't mean that it doesn't deserve to be scrutinized and criticized for being unhealthy for competition and skillful play.

The Thief D/P build is incredibly passive and flighty despite being able to inflict lethal damage with impunity due to teleports and stealth spam; the S/D build consistently negates any importance of positioning and timing by teleporting through walls at will and attacking while evading. Neither of these things encourage any sort of skillful play. They just encourage turtling as a response and rock-paper-scissors reactions to a class which engages combat in a manner similar to people what one might see in a Peer-to-Peer FPS server. It's complete silliness.

Basically, the problem with Thief (and Mesmer) has always been that the user dies only because the user "messed up." There is almost zero reason that a Thief should ever die in any circumstance; it simply has too many means to escape or attack with impunity (even if said attacks don't necessarily result in a kill). Coupled with the fact that it can freely teleport across a map in a gamemode dominated by capturing stationary circles by standing inside of them, it means that it's often in the hands of the Thief itself whether or not the Thief dies in any given fight, and that's the cancerous paradigm that it has spread to other classes.

Hahahhahahah

[Elrond.9486]

@Fantasylife.7981 said:Soulbeast, Scrapper and Holosmith are intensely overpower. Nerf already :(

holo isn't on the S+ tier that the others you listed are lol

[Abelisk.5148]

Berserker Scepter/Focus Weaver

Attack <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Defense <3 <3Control <3 <3Evasion <3 <3Mobility <3 <3 <3

[Alatar.7364]

@Swagg.9236 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Swagg.9236 said:My core staff ele build (2013):Attack: <3 <3 <3 <3Defense: <3Control: <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3

The exact same build in 2018 despite LUDICROUS powercreep:Attack: <3 <3 <3Defense: <3 <3Control: <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3Revives: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

@Alatar.7364 said:

@"Burnfall.9573" said:

http://www.tentonhammer.com/articles/guild-wars-2-are-thieves-and-mesmer-s-the-cause-of-the-meta

'It isn’t often that I’ll feel inclined to point the finger at a class or two in a massively multiplayer game and blame it for the woes of an entire game mode. While I certainly wouldn’t go that far here, I do believe the Thief and Mesmer and some of their mechanics are the cause of many problems in Guild Wars 2’s PvP'

Thief and Mesmer(all specializations included)

Attack- <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Defense <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Control <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Evasion <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

????????

It's 2015 post by a guy who thinks Thieves run Berserker amulet and as an example of the

"massive burst dmg'

posts a 4,6k backstab vs Light Armor target which is god.kitten

NOTHING

compared to what most of the power professions can do with much better frequency.

Literally

the only thing in that post which was true is that Thief has access to more stealth than others. Thief was +1 even before 2015... wonder how is that since that guy makes it sound like such an ultimate 1v1 killer.

You say all that, and yet Thief and Mesmer have the exact same sort of builds even now. There has been zero deviance from their core playstyles despite sometimes getting extra buttons

So??Thief having the very same build as it always had, has

absolutely nothing

to do with

anything

in that post.That Thief still has D/P and S/D Build somehow confirms that clueless guy theory that Thief is a 1v1 God with best at everything even though there is no logical correlation?

Two whole classes only have one play-style: playing super passive until one has enough resource or cooldowns to rotate through a PvE-tier DPS rotation saturated with teleports and protracted evasion periods. This play-style has survived all the way through the game's historical continuity, and has even been outright replicated and shoved into other classes. Just because Thief and core Mesmer might not populate the top rankings any more doesn't somehow mean that their shallow, low-effort play-style isn't yet the meta-shaping gravity well which siphons the IQ of all who participate in PvP. It's sort of like this one player who told me about how nobody should complain about conditions because his autoattack-centric Mesmer build doesn't get guaranteed kills with his strategy:

just because something is ineffective within the grand scheme of the GW2 PvP environment doesn't mean that it doesn't deserve to be scrutinized and criticized for being unhealthy for competition and skillful play.

The Thief D/P build is incredibly passive and flighty despite being able to inflict lethal damage with impunity due to teleports and stealth spam; the S/D build consistently negates any importance of positioning and timing by teleporting through walls at will and attacking while evading. Neither of these things encourage any sort of skillful play. They just encourage turtling as a response and rock-paper-scissors reactions to a class which engages combat in a manner similar to people what one might see in a Peer-to-Peer FPS server. It's complete silliness.

Basically, the problem with Thief (and Mesmer) has always been that the user dies only because the user "messed up." There is almost zero reason that a Thief should ever die in any circumstance; it simply has too many means to escape or attack with impunity (even if said attacks don't necessarily result in a kill). Coupled with the fact that it can freely teleport across a map in a gamemode dominated by capturing stationary circles by standing inside of them, it means that it's often in the hands of the Thief itself whether or not the Thief dies in any given fight, and that's the cancerous paradigm that it has spread to other classes.

You might have just as well deleted your entire post after saying that Thief plays passively and then right away bury it when saying D/P does lethal dmg and completely top it off after saying "with impunity". I have never read more false and inexperienced nonsense. Those lines completely invalidated every credibility that could possibly be given and proved you likely never played Thief in your life. All of what you say is literally no issue for anyone who is not a bot, especially the part where you complain that thief can run away.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Swagg.9236 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Swagg.9236 said:My core staff ele build (2013):Attack: <3 <3 <3 <3Defense: <3Control: <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3

The exact same build in 2018 despite LUDICROUS powercreep:Attack: <3 <3 <3Defense: <3 <3Control: <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3Revives: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

@Alatar.7364 said:

@"Burnfall.9573" said:

http://www.tentonhammer.com/articles/guild-wars-2-are-thieves-and-mesmer-s-the-cause-of-the-meta

'It isn’t often that I’ll feel inclined to point the finger at a class or two in a massively multiplayer game and blame it for the woes of an entire game mode. While I certainly wouldn’t go that far here, I do believe the Thief and Mesmer and some of their mechanics are the cause of many problems in Guild Wars 2’s PvP'

Thief and Mesmer(all specializations included)

Attack- <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Defense <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Control <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Evasion <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

????????

It's 2015 post by a guy who thinks Thieves run Berserker amulet and as an example of the

"massive burst dmg'

posts a 4,6k backstab vs Light Armor target which is god.kitten

NOTHING

compared to what most of the power professions can do with much better frequency.

Literally

the only thing in that post which was true is that Thief has access to more stealth than others. Thief was +1 even before 2015... wonder how is that since that guy makes it sound like such an ultimate 1v1 killer.

You say all that, and yet Thief and Mesmer have the exact same sort of builds even now. There has been zero deviance from their core playstyles despite sometimes getting extra buttons

So??Thief having the very same build as it always had, has

absolutely nothing

to do with

anything

in that post.That Thief still has D/P and S/D Build somehow confirms that clueless guy theory that Thief is a 1v1 God with best at everything even though there is no logical correlation?

Two whole classes only have one play-style: playing super passive until one has enough resource or cooldowns to rotate through a PvE-tier DPS rotation saturated with teleports and protracted evasion periods. This play-style has survived all the way through the game's historical continuity, and has even been outright replicated and shoved into other classes. Just because Thief and core Mesmer might not populate the top rankings any more doesn't somehow mean that their shallow, low-effort play-style isn't yet the meta-shaping gravity well which siphons the IQ of all who participate in PvP. It's sort of like this one player who told me about how nobody should complain about conditions because his autoattack-centric Mesmer build doesn't get guaranteed kills with his strategy:

just because something is ineffective within the grand scheme of the GW2 PvP environment doesn't mean that it doesn't deserve to be scrutinized and criticized for being unhealthy for competition and skillful play.

The Thief D/P build is incredibly passive and flighty despite being able to inflict lethal damage with impunity due to teleports and stealth spam; the S/D build consistently negates any importance of positioning and timing by teleporting through walls at will and attacking while evading. Neither of these things encourage any sort of skillful play. They just encourage turtling as a response and rock-paper-scissors reactions to a class which engages combat in a manner similar to people what one might see in a Peer-to-Peer FPS server. It's complete silliness.

Basically, the problem with Thief (and Mesmer) has always been that the user dies only because the user "messed up." There is almost zero reason that a Thief should ever die in any circumstance; it simply has too many means to escape or attack with impunity (even if said attacks don't necessarily result in a kill). Coupled with the fact that it can freely teleport across a map in a gamemode dominated by capturing stationary circles by standing inside of them, it means that it's often in the hands of the Thief itself whether or not the Thief dies in any given fight, and that's the cancerous paradigm that it has spread to other classes.

What! Lmao what game are u playing?

[Burnfall.9573]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Swagg.9236 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Swagg.9236 said:My core staff ele build (2013):Attack: <3 <3 <3 <3Defense: <3Control: <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3

The exact same build in 2018 despite LUDICROUS powercreep:Attack: <3 <3 <3Defense: <3 <3Control: <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3Revives: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

@Alatar.7364 said:

@"Burnfall.9573" said:

http://www.tentonhammer.com/articles/guild-wars-2-are-thieves-and-mesmer-s-the-cause-of-the-meta

'It isn’t often that I’ll feel inclined to point the finger at a class or two in a massively multiplayer game and blame it for the woes of an entire game mode. While I certainly wouldn’t go that far here, I do believe the Thief and Mesmer and some of their mechanics are the cause of many problems in Guild Wars 2’s PvP'

Thief and Mesmer(all specializations included)

Attack- <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Defense <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Control <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Evasion <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

????????

It's 2015 post by a guy who thinks Thieves run Berserker amulet and as an example of the

"massive burst dmg'

posts a 4,6k backstab vs Light Armor target which is god.kitten

NOTHING

compared to what most of the power professions can do with much better frequency.

Literally

the only thing in that post which was true is that Thief has access to more stealth than others. Thief was +1 even before 2015... wonder how is that since that guy makes it sound like such an ultimate 1v1 killer.

You say all that, and yet Thief and Mesmer have the exact same sort of builds even now. There has been zero deviance from their core playstyles despite sometimes getting extra buttons

So??Thief having the very same build as it always had, has

absolutely nothing

to do with

anything

in that post.That Thief still has D/P and S/D Build somehow confirms that clueless guy theory that Thief is a 1v1 God with best at everything even though there is no logical correlation?

Two whole classes only have one play-style: playing super passive until one has enough resource or cooldowns to rotate through a PvE-tier DPS rotation saturated with teleports and protracted evasion periods. This play-style has survived all the way through the game's historical continuity, and has even been outright replicated and shoved into other classes. Just because Thief and core Mesmer might not populate the top rankings any more doesn't somehow mean that their shallow, low-effort play-style isn't yet the meta-shaping gravity well which siphons the IQ of all who participate in PvP. It's sort of like this one player who told me about how nobody should complain about conditions because his autoattack-centric Mesmer build doesn't get guaranteed kills with his strategy:

just because something is ineffective within the grand scheme of the GW2 PvP environment doesn't mean that it doesn't deserve to be scrutinized and criticized for being unhealthy for competition and skillful play.

The Thief D/P build is incredibly passive and flighty despite being able to inflict lethal damage with impunity due to teleports and stealth spam; the S/D build consistently negates any importance of positioning and timing by teleporting through walls at will and attacking while evading. Neither of these things encourage any sort of skillful play. They just encourage turtling as a response and rock-paper-scissors reactions to a class which engages combat in a manner similar to people what one might see in a Peer-to-Peer FPS server. It's complete silliness.

Basically, the problem with Thief (and Mesmer) has always been that the user dies only because the user "messed up." There is almost zero reason that a Thief should ever die in any circumstance; it simply has too many means to escape or attack with impunity (even if said attacks don't necessarily result in a kill). Coupled with the fact that it can freely teleport across a map in a gamemode dominated by capturing stationary circles by standing inside of them, it means that it's often in the hands of the Thief itself whether or not the Thief dies in any given fight, and that's the cancerous paradigm that it has spread to other classes.

What! Lmao what game are u playing?

Just to let you know; Swagg knows history and is not new to the game either. Swagg is 100!% correct

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Swagg.9236 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Swagg.9236 said:My core staff ele build (2013):Attack: <3 <3 <3 <3Defense: <3Control: <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3

The exact same build in 2018 despite LUDICROUS powercreep:Attack: <3 <3 <3Defense: <3 <3Control: <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3Revives: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

http://www.tentonhammer.com/articles/guild-wars-2-are-thieves-and-mesmer-s-the-cause-of-the-meta

'It isn’t often that I’ll feel inclined to point the finger at a class or two in a massively multiplayer game and blame it for the woes of an entire game mode. While I certainly wouldn’t go that far here, I do believe the Thief and Mesmer and some of their mechanics are the cause of many problems in Guild Wars 2’s PvP'

Thief and Mesmer(all specializations included)

Attack- <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Defense <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Control <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Evasion <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

????????

It's 2015 post by a guy who thinks Thieves run Berserker amulet and as an example of the

"massive burst dmg'

posts a 4,6k backstab vs Light Armor target which is god.kitten

NOTHING

compared to what most of the power professions can do with much better frequency.

Literally

the only thing in that post which was true is that Thief has access to more stealth than others. Thief was +1 even before 2015... wonder how is that since that guy makes it sound like such an ultimate 1v1 killer.

You say all that, and yet Thief and Mesmer have the exact same sort of builds even now. There has been zero deviance from their core playstyles despite sometimes getting extra buttons

So??Thief having the very same build as it always had, has

absolutely nothing

to do with

anything

in that post.That Thief still has D/P and S/D Build somehow confirms that clueless guy theory that Thief is a 1v1 God with best at everything even though there is no logical correlation?

Two whole classes only have one play-style: playing super passive until one has enough resource or cooldowns to rotate through a PvE-tier DPS rotation saturated with teleports and protracted evasion periods. This play-style has survived all the way through the game's historical continuity, and has even been outright replicated and shoved into other classes. Just because Thief and core Mesmer might not populate the top rankings any more doesn't somehow mean that their shallow, low-effort play-style isn't yet the meta-shaping gravity well which siphons the IQ of all who participate in PvP. It's sort of like this one player who told me about how nobody should complain about conditions because his autoattack-centric Mesmer build doesn't get guaranteed kills with his strategy:

just because something is ineffective within the grand scheme of the GW2 PvP environment doesn't mean that it doesn't deserve to be scrutinized and criticized for being unhealthy for competition and skillful play.

The Thief D/P build is incredibly passive and flighty despite being able to inflict lethal damage with impunity due to teleports and stealth spam; the S/D build consistently negates any importance of positioning and timing by teleporting through walls at will and attacking while evading. Neither of these things encourage any sort of skillful play. They just encourage turtling as a response and rock-paper-scissors reactions to a class which engages combat in a manner similar to people what one might see in a Peer-to-Peer FPS server. It's complete silliness.

Basically, the problem with Thief (and Mesmer) has always been that the user dies only because the user "messed up." There is almost zero reason that a Thief should ever die in any circumstance; it simply has too many means to escape or attack with impunity (even if said attacks don't necessarily result in a kill). Coupled with the fact that it can freely teleport across a map in a gamemode dominated by capturing stationary circles by standing inside of them, it means that it's often in the hands of the Thief itself whether or not the Thief dies in any given fight, and that's the cancerous paradigm that it has spread to other classes.

What! Lmao what game are u playing?

Just to let you know; Swagg knows history and is not new to the game either- is 100!% correct

Just to let u know hes wrong and for some reason every post of urs i see regarding thief is clearly biased against them like u have a vendetta lmao yet ur always in thief forums hmmm. I've played theif almost 4 yrs and I can say thief has undergone many changes that effect how it effectively performs over the years including builds such as d/p dropping away.sure s/d stilk meta but that's only because it's best it's got. U post a clip of passive thief build that shows thief's strengths moving around map avoiding any real fights so if insinuating thief's op lmao build was a joke build not serious at all but if it was opposite and was a kill everyone or win all 1v1 fights than its showcase an op build lol u also post a 7 year old video trying to do the same when thief and all the other classes have changed so much especially since espects lmao, it's silly asf.

[Arheundel.6451]

@Fantasylife.7981 said:Soulbeast, Scrapper and Holosmith are intensely overpower. Nerf already :(

Respect to what they're OP?

[Burnfall.9573]

I continuously tell thieves with evidences that the only solution is for a complete rework/redesign. In fact; many agree

'Truth Hurts Because It Uncovers Everything'

[Stand The Wall.6987]

prot holoAttack <3 <3 <3 <3Defense <3 <3 <3 .5Control <3 <3 <3Evasion <3 <3 <3
Mobility <3 <3 <3

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

I'm surprised no one's done condi-Mirage still. Here goes:

Attack <3 <3 + 1/2Defense <3 <3 <3Control <3Evasion <3 <3 <3 +1/2Mobility <3 <3 <3 <3

[Swagg.9236]

But seriously, tell me, what would Thief be in PvP without shortbow 5? The class has zero sustain during combat except while its teleports and evasion spam holds out, and its entire, low-risk rotation basically revolves around Steal being up. It constantly breaks from fights if its openers go poorly, and nobody can adequately punish it for running away except maybe another Thief. If the only thing that Thief could do was teleport to selected targets, how much more obvious would it be that the class is a mere, half-complete, flavor-based idea when it spends 75% of its time waiting around for CDs before teleporting through the ground, spamming a few buttons, and rolling the dice to see if it struck a target who couldn't just hard-counter with instant, panic CDs of its own? At least with Shortbow 5, if a Thief finds itself being worthless in a fight, it can just walk away and teleport to a point at which nobody is for a free node. This is an extremely passive playstyle, and it characterizes core Thief and Mesmer play; it's the most unhealthy, low-skill sort of paradigm to promote, and unfortunately it's worked its way into every other class in the game at this point (although, there wasn't much of a design foundation for this game to stop that encroachment).

[Quadox.7834]

@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:I'm surprised no one's done condi-Mirage still. Here goes:

Attack <3 <3 + 1/2Defense <3 <3 <3Control <3Evasion <3 <3 <3 +1/2Mobility <3 <3 <3 <3

I would lower mobility

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Swagg.9236 said:But seriously, tell me, what would Thief be in PvP without shortbow 5? The class has zero sustain during combat except while its teleports and evasion spam holds out, and its entire, low-risk rotation basically revolves around Steal being up. It constantly breaks from fights if its openers go poorly, and nobody can adequately punish it for running away except maybe another Thief. If the only thing that Thief could do was teleport to selected targets, how much more obvious would it be that the class is a mere, half-complete, flavor-based idea when it spends 75% of its time waiting around for CDs before teleporting through the ground, spamming a few buttons, and rolling the dice to see if it struck a target who couldn't just hard-counter with instant, panic CDs of its own? At least with Shortbow 5, if a Thief finds itself being worthless in a fight, it can just walk away and teleport to a point at which nobody is for a free node. This is an extremely passive playstyle, and it characterizes core Thief and Mesmer play; it's the most unhealthy, low-skill sort of paradigm to promote, and unfortunately it's worked its way into every other class in the game at this point (although, there wasn't much of a design foundation for this game to stop that encroachment).

Cant argue with that.sb 5 definitely carries the class nowadays.

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:I'm surprised no one's done condi-Mirage still. Here goes:

Attack <3 <3 + 1/2Defense <3 <3 <3Control <3Evasion <3 <3 <3 +1/2Mobility <3 <3 <3 <3

I would lower mobility

No objections here. I'm honestly worried about people saying I rated things too low. What do you think it should be?

[otto.5684]

I find it funny that people putting builds with multiple CCs with control of 2. Any build with just 2 CC has a control of 3. Builds with 3-4 CCs and has snares or cripple is a control of 5. Example:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Berserker Soulbeast:

Attack: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 +Defense: <3Control: <3 <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3

Druid:

Attack: <3 <3 and 1/2Defense: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 +Control: <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3 <3

The meta berserker or Mara GS/LB has 2 CCs on weapons, 2 CCs on pets active and then after merge another 2 CCs. How the fuck is that a control of 2?!

Also, with a strong heal, good access to reg, access to stealth and med HP pool you cannot have a defense of 1, even with berserker.

Same for Druid on control. There are 2-3 CCs and 1-2 roots.

Another example:

@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:I'm surprised no one's done condi-Mirage still. Here goes:

Attack <3 <3 + 1/2Defense <3 <3 <3Control <3Evasion <3 <3 <3 +1/2Mobility <3 <3 <3 <3

Assuming meta weapons, you run at least 2 CCs. 2 CCs + chaos storm + cripple is a control of at least 4.

Example I will do meta SB build:

Attack: <3 <3 <3 + 0.5Defense: <3 <3 <3 <3Control: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3 <3 <3

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@otto.5684 said:I find it funny that people putting builds with multiple CCs with control of 2. Any build with just 2 CC has a control of 3. Builds with 3-4 CCs and has snares or cripple is a control of 5. Example:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Berserker Soulbeast:

Attack: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 +Defense: <3Control: <3 <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3

Druid:

Attack: <3 <3 and 1/2Defense: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 +Control: <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3 <3

The meta berserker or Mara GS/LB has 2 CCs on weapons, 2 CCs on pets active and then after merge another 2 CCs. How the kitten is that a control of 2?!

Also, with a strong heal, good access to reg, access to stealth and med HP pool you cannot have a defense of 1, even with berserker.

Same for Druid on control. There are 2-3 CCs and 1-2 roots.

Another example:

@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:I'm surprised no one's done condi-Mirage still. Here goes:

Attack <3 <3 + 1/2Defense <3 <3 <3Control <3Evasion <3 <3 <3 +1/2Mobility <3 <3 <3 <3

Assuming meta weapons, you run at least 2 CCs. 2 CCs + chaos storm + cripple is a control of at least 4.

Example I will do meta SB build:

Attack: <3 <3 <3 + 0.5Defense: <3 <3 <3 <3Control: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3 <3 <3

That's like if I did this:

Mesmers:

Attack: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Defense: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Control: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

The misunderstand here is that the OP gave a baseline standard for how hearts should be allocated for his list. So when you are grading a build structure, use what he listed for Daredevil, and consider those given stats as a baseline vs. the other builds.

Also, I find it hilarious that you rate a meta SB as a 5 heart Control. So you're saying that a Spellbreaker has like 10 hearts in control? oO

[otto.5684]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@otto.5684 said:I find it funny that people putting builds with multiple CCs with control of 2. Any build with just 2 CC has a control of 3. Builds with 3-4 CCs and has snares or cripple is a control of 5. Example:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Berserker Soulbeast:

Attack: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 +Defense: <3Control: <3 <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3

Druid:

Attack: <3 <3 and 1/2Defense: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 +Control: <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3 <3

The meta berserker or Mara GS/LB has 2 CCs on weapons, 2 CCs on pets active and then after merge another 2 CCs. How the kitten is that a control of 2?!

Also, with a strong heal, good access to reg, access to stealth and med HP pool you cannot have a defense of 1, even with berserker.

Same for Druid on control. There are 2-3 CCs and 1-2 roots.

Another example:

@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:I'm surprised no one's done condi-Mirage still. Here goes:

Attack <3 <3 + 1/2Defense <3 <3 <3Control <3Evasion <3 <3 <3 +1/2Mobility <3 <3 <3 <3

Assuming meta weapons, you run at least 2 CCs. 2 CCs + chaos storm + cripple is a control of at least 4.

Example I will do meta SB build:

Attack: <3 <3 <3 + 0.5Defense: <3 <3 <3 <3Control: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3 <3 <3

That's like if I did this:

Mesmers:

Attack: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Defense: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Control: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

The misunderstand here is that the OP gave a baseline standard for how hearts should be allocated for his list. So when you are grading a build structure, use what he listed for Daredevil, and consider those given stats as a baseline vs. the other builds.

Also, I find it hilarious that you rate a meta SB as a 5 heart Control. So you're saying that a Spellbreaker has like 10 hearts in control? oO

The OP set 1-5 and 5 attributes. Also, when I did SB, I was doing spell breaker not soul beast (soul beast is typically referred to as SlB). But since you asked, if I do your soul beast build, GS/LB:

Attack: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Defense: <3 <3Control: <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3 +0.5

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

@otto.5684 said:I find it funny that people putting builds with multiple CCs with control of 2. Any build with just 2 CC has a control of 3. Builds with 3-4 CCs and has snares or cripple is a control of 5. Example:

(...)

Another example:

@"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:I'm surprised no one's done condi-Mirage still. Here goes:

Attack <3 <3 + 1/2Defense <3 <3 <3Control <3Evasion <3 <3 <3 +1/2Mobility <3 <3 <3 <3

Assuming meta weapons, you run at least 2 CCs. 2 CCs + chaos storm + cripple is a control of at least 4.

Example I will do meta SB build:

Attack: <3 <3 <3 + 0.5Defense: <3 <3 <3 <3Control: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3 <3 <3

What do you consider meta weapons? Going by the condi-mirage meta builds on Metabattle, I count one actual CC--Daze from Distortion and the offhand weapon--plus a stun if you run Pistol. Chaos storm effects and Cripple are conditions which do not require stun break, and can be countered with condi-mitigation. Some call them "soft CCs". Sorry, but condi-Mirage has some of the lowest true CC in the game. I think one <3 is appropriate.

[Crab Fear.1624]

Here is an example of what I wanted to make, though when all are in I will do a 2.0 better looking version for all of them.