[merged] About the Skyscale Timegate...

[Gop.8713]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Aetheldrake.6395 said:

@Gop.8713 said:It's like they want us to play the game or something . . .

well theyre gonna get a lot less gameplay by forcing people to wait for something. some people are like "im just gonna do the daily for this then go play something else" when they COULD just have the skyscale already and start working on gaining its masteries and learning how to use it. there are already so many daily things in game. dont make major new content time gated on top of the new content already having time gated events

So what's the alternative... have those same player go off complete the skyscale in a few hours then log off and go play something else until the next content update.If your just logging in to do a collection then ignore the rest of the map content/the game in general... perhaps question why...

If the game has nothing else to offer than an artificial time gate, probably yes. But then it's on the devs to ask "why are people not playing out content? ".This is a great point, but it does nothing to suggest that removing the time gate would improve the situation . . .

Removing the time gate increases the breadth of appeal of the content. People who want to slowly advance the progression over the course of days or weeks could do so while those desiring to do the same amount of work over a shorter period, and who have the free time, could do so.But how is that an improvement? In either case the player is leaving the game after they get their shiny. It would be great if the game could be all things to all players and one of gw2's great assets is its 'pick up and play' nature that allows players to take long breaks without falling behind but I'm not sure that those players should be favored over those who stick around during the 'droughts' and play both the new and the existing content . . .

[Thundabolt.8541]

@Gop.8713 said:

@tekhiun.8653 said:

@Gop.8713 said:The only really compelling argument I've seen against the time gate so far is that it is a lazy way to prolong the content and keep players invested in the map over a period of time, and I think that is a fair complaint. BUT, I haven't seen anyone present any reasonable alternative that accomplishes those goals nor have I seen anyone demonstrate that the time gate is causing any actual harm . . .

@"EmmetOtter.8542" said:My only concern is will this become the norm? If it sets a precedent that is used for items that are really needed for progression in game then you can certainly point at this moment as being a terrible thing.I'm not too worried about this. Anet seems to prefer mixing up their gates so it doesn't get stale, and if they did decide to go with precedent in the future they certainly have far worse examples from the recent past that they could follow . . .

Then you haven't read any comments at all.You are mistaken. It would be helpful for you if you stopped now and considered what led you to make this error . . .There are plenty of alternatives, like giving the mount at the beginning of the story, or after the first collection, and making the rest of the time gated stuff about something else like an exclusive skin for the skygated that would have matching skins for the other mounts in the gem store. Or just more an ascended gear box.

Those are not better, just different. For players who enjoy the getting more than the having they would actually be worse . . .As for the timegate actually causing harm, look at my case and of many others that are 1 day behind the collections:I'm more than one day behind and I'm doing just fine. Again that's why personal experience is a bad argument. Anyone who feels like the game should be changed bc it would work out better for them has an inflated idea of their importance . . .

You say personal experience is a bad argument, but you're also arguing against others using your own personal experience -- "more than a day behind and doing fine".

There's really no need to be shooting down someone's feelings based on something they perceive as a negative experience, just because you're "doing fine". That's still your own personal experience.

[Ashen.2907]

@Gop.8713 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Aetheldrake.6395 said:

@Gop.8713 said:It's like they want us to play the game or something . . .

well theyre gonna get a lot less gameplay by forcing people to wait for something. some people are like "im just gonna do the daily for this then go play something else" when they COULD just have the skyscale already and start working on gaining its masteries and learning how to use it. there are already so many daily things in game. dont make major new content time gated on top of the new content already having time gated events

So what's the alternative... have those same player go off complete the skyscale in a few hours then log off and go play something else until the next content update.If your just logging in to do a collection then ignore the rest of the map content/the game in general... perhaps question why...

If the game has nothing else to offer than an artificial time gate, probably yes. But then it's on the devs to ask "why are people not playing out content? ".This is a great point, but it does nothing to suggest that removing the time gate would improve the situation . . .

Removing the time gate increases the breadth of appeal of the content. People who want to slowly advance the progression over the course of days or weeks could do so while those desiring to do the same amount of work over a shorter period, and who have the free time, could do so.But how is that an improvement? In either case the player is leaving the game after they get their shiny. It would be great if the game could be all things to all players and one of gw2's great assets is its 'pick up and play' nature that allows players to take long breaks without falling behind but I'm not sure that those players should be favored over those who stick around during the 'droughts' and play both the new and the existing content . . .

How is making content enjoyable by more paying customers an improvement over having it enjoyed by fewer?

Is that a rhetorical question?

[Gop.8713]

@Nyarlathotep.4350 said:Why was my discussion merged into this megathread? It was focusing on THE XP LOSS DUE TO THE TIMEGATE. Not actually concerning the timegate or the Skyscale itself. This entire post is irrelevant to me...what a waste.

Edit: If anything it was about how it would profit not to have the Mastery track locking xp from the get go and unlocking it when you are finished with everything.

Just start a new thread about players wasting xp when they haven't completed their masteries, or post in one of the existing threads on that topic. It is a much broader issue that has been discussed since the mastery system was introduced. But don't mention the new mount, I think pretty much any thread on that topic is going to get merged in the current environment . . .

[Gop.8713]

@Thundabolt.8541 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@tekhiun.8653 said:

@Gop.8713 said:The only really compelling argument I've seen against the time gate so far is that it is a lazy way to prolong the content and keep players invested in the map over a period of time, and I think that is a fair complaint. BUT, I haven't seen anyone present any reasonable alternative that accomplishes those goals nor have I seen anyone demonstrate that the time gate is causing any actual harm . . .

@"EmmetOtter.8542" said:My only concern is will this become the norm? If it sets a precedent that is used for items that are really needed for progression in game then you can certainly point at this moment as being a terrible thing.I'm not too worried about this. Anet seems to prefer mixing up their gates so it doesn't get stale, and if they did decide to go with precedent in the future they certainly have far worse examples from the recent past that they could follow . . .

Then you haven't read any comments at all.You are mistaken. It would be helpful for you if you stopped now and considered what led you to make this error . . .There are plenty of alternatives, like giving the mount at the beginning of the story, or after the first collection, and making the rest of the time gated stuff about something else like an exclusive skin for the skygated that would have matching skins for the other mounts in the gem store. Or just more an ascended gear box.

Those are not better, just different. For players who enjoy the getting more than the having they would actually be worse . . .As for the timegate actually causing harm, look at my case and of many others that are 1 day behind the collections:I'm more than one day behind and I'm doing just fine. Again that's why personal experience is a bad argument. Anyone who feels like the game should be changed bc it would work out better for them has an inflated idea of their importance . . .

You say personal experience is a bad argument, but you're also arguing against others using your own personal experience -- "more than a day behind and doing fine".

There's really no need to be shooting down someone's feelings based on something they perceive as a negative experience, just because you're "doing fine". That's still your own personal experience.Ty, exactly my point. I was illustrating how your personal experience is a poor argument for making changes to the game bc the personal experiences of others (me) will be counter to yours and of equal value. If you are looking to make a change to the game, only arguments about how it will affect the game will be persuasive, the individual experience is irrelevant . . .@Ashen.2907 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Aetheldrake.6395 said:

@Gop.8713 said:It's like they want us to play the game or something . . .

well theyre gonna get a lot less gameplay by forcing people to wait for something. some people are like "im just gonna do the daily for this then go play something else" when they COULD just have the skyscale already and start working on gaining its masteries and learning how to use it. there are already so many daily things in game. dont make major new content time gated on top of the new content already having time gated events

So what's the alternative... have those same player go off complete the skyscale in a few hours then log off and go play something else until the next content update.If your just logging in to do a collection then ignore the rest of the map content/the game in general... perhaps question why...

If the game has nothing else to offer than an artificial time gate, probably yes. But then it's on the devs to ask "why are people not playing out content? ".This is a great point, but it does nothing to suggest that removing the time gate would improve the situation . . .

Removing the time gate increases the breadth of appeal of the content. People who want to slowly advance the progression over the course of days or weeks could do so while those desiring to do the same amount of work over a shorter period, and who have the free time, could do so.But how is that an improvement? In either case the player is leaving the game after they get their shiny. It would be great if the game could be all things to all players and one of gw2's great assets is its 'pick up and play' nature that allows players to take long breaks without falling behind but I'm not sure that those players should be favored over those who stick around during the 'droughts' and play both the new and the existing content . . .

How is making content enjoyable by more paying customers an improvement over having it enjoyed by fewer?

Is that a rhetorical question?No . . .

[Ototo.3214]

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Ototo.3214 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Ototo.3214 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Ototo.3214 said:I'm fine with doing collections. I'm fine with the collections taking 30+ hours. But let me do it at my own pace. I hate feeling like I have to rush to finish the kitten thing each day and can't stop to just...play fractals with friends or anything like that because if I don't finish it before reset, I have to wait another 24 hours before I can do anything. It's unneeded stress and frustration for a collection I'd otherwise really enjoy.

But you don't, because you can't rush time gated content. If you feel like that, that's a player problem.

You see, the big problem I have here is that no one complains they are stressed when content ISN'T time gated but they should be because it does get harder to do group content when it isn't

... but when your forced by the game to progress content in steps over time .. THAT is stressful? That doesn't make sense.

I think you are taking his words too literallyI think he means like me for example i did nothing till the reset yesterday and rushed to complete the egg magic gathering collection so that that i wouldnt have to worry about not finishing it before reset it took about 4 hours doing it with a group.

After that i was done didn't do dailies, fractals, or play dragonfall at all i was pretty much done.Based on what im hearing for the next step ill be feeding a skyscale 3 times then today I might do fractals if they are any i particularly like after which ill going to prob stop and play another game.

If there are going to be more time gates within time gates the ESO new chapter early access is looking more and more lovely by the day. At which point i could be playing that and logging into gw2 just to feed a train a pet thats not a pet 3 times a day.

Ideally we are still rushing content because no one wants to wait an extra day if they dont have to. And because the mount is the main focus for so many people it easily pushes other forms of content to the side.

The decision to rush is a player issue and I doesn't make sense to make an argument based on it. All content gets rushed by people to some degree, but for some reason when it's time gated, rushing it all the sudden a big problem for you? That doesn't make sense.

Just be honest here ... you just want the mount without artificial restrictions imposed on you. Feeling like you have to rush content is not a compelling argument to not have time gates.

Except the time gate is causing people to rush the collections within that given day. Many of my friends started the collection for the mount and were taking their time because they didn't think it had some stupid time gate to it. Then when they found out it was gated, they started rushing it.

So what? That's still a player perception issue.

What was that that they said were their core philosophies for GW2 in that recent update on what was to come for the game? Wait, player autonomy and fun content were listed? That can't be right. That really screws with player expectations.

That doesn't change what i said ... rushing can't be a problem for time-gated content if it's not a problem for non-time gated content. Content is still fun (and is subjective anyways) and players still have options to experience it ... as far as I can see, those philosophies still stand.

The difference is that with non time gated content you are rushing at your own pace because you enjoy doing so.If you are getting close to reset and you know you are losing a day if you don't rush to finish the collection because you will get stuck on working on it very early on when trying to work on it the next day, in which case you feel forced to rush and burn yourself out to finish those parts up, which makes rushing a problem, due to the time gate.

So it's not about the rush ... because you don't mind doing it at your own pace. So the real problem here is not about rushing content.

Except it is, because I and many others wouldn't rush that hard it it weren't for the time gate, or be bummed out about missing the reset because they were busy enjoying the map and story instead of working on the collection already, just to then realise that progression is gated when wanting to work on it the next day.Is this really that hard to understand, or do you simply refuse to do so?

Oh c'mon.. at least be a little more honest about your issue here.I mean there is no genuine reason to feel forced into rushing just cos you missed a reset... if your RL schedule is such that you only have those few minutes each day to get the skyscale bit done then there is little ANET can do to help.No sorry, the real reason you are causing a fuss about this is because you want to rush it to completion ASAP.... and then what, what will you be doing when you have it completed - logoff until next content update (hardly great for ANET from a business perspective) OR will you go about playing out all the other content options you have at your fingertips especially new map and new content (if so what is stopping you doing while your waiting for the next skyscale content to become available??)No sorry the " ANET force me to rush cos reset" is just a very poor attempt to smokescreen the "I want it, I want it NAOW" mentality, nothing more.

Actually no. It's quite clear some people have difficulty with reading comprehension here. Sure, some might want to rush to completion but some of us would like to feel like we can stop and start whenever we want. The main issue is the time gate on top of numerous bloated collections that take hours to complete. The collections themselves aren't the problem, it's perfectly fine to have a collection be big like this. But to make it so you can't start the next collection until a reset happens? And if you failed to finish the previous before the reset you now have to wait 24 hours again? I'd like to be able to work on it, take a break to go do something else, then come back to it and not feel like I screwed myself over because I finished the collection 10 minutes after reset and now have to wait another day. It's entirely pointless to have the time gate, especially when you've hyped it up and claim it'll drop on the patch day, May 14th, when in actuality...who fckin knows when we'll actually be able to have one. Most people probably still won't have one by the time the guild chat for it even happens on the 24th. Casual players or those with busy schedules should be able to log on, work on the collections for the time they have, the come back to it when they finally have time again without feeling like they're losing out. It punishes those people more than the people that have nothing to do but play GW2 all day.

I actually have no issue with the charged quartz crystal time gate alone, haven't gotten to it yet but it sounds like you just feed them and move on. Sucks to have to wait another day but at least it doesn't eat 6+ hours of what little play time I get and I can actually like...go do something else. But it stacked on top of each collection having it's own daily reset time gate makes it unbearable.

[Nyarlathotep.4350]

@Gop.8713 said:

Just start a new thread about players wasting xp when they haven't completed their masteries, or post in one of the existing threads on that topic. It is a much broader issue that has been discussed since the mastery system was introduced. But don't mention the new mount, I think pretty much any thread on that topic is going to get merged in the current environment . . .

Merging everything is just going to make everything even messier...I don't know what they are thinking. But it is hard to create a thread without even mentioning the things that is making it an issue. Maybe if I use obscure nicknames for the mount and timegate or something... :T

[Ashen.2907]

@Gop.8713 said:

@Thundabolt.8541 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@tekhiun.8653 said:

@Gop.8713 said:The only really compelling argument I've seen against the time gate so far is that it is a lazy way to prolong the content and keep players invested in the map over a period of time, and I think that is a fair complaint. BUT, I haven't seen anyone present any reasonable alternative that accomplishes those goals nor have I seen anyone demonstrate that the time gate is causing any actual harm . . .

@"EmmetOtter.8542" said:My only concern is will this become the norm? If it sets a precedent that is used for items that are really needed for progression in game then you can certainly point at this moment as being a terrible thing.I'm not too worried about this. Anet seems to prefer mixing up their gates so it doesn't get stale, and if they did decide to go with precedent in the future they certainly have far worse examples from the recent past that they could follow . . .

Then you haven't read any comments at all.You are mistaken. It would be helpful for you if you stopped now and considered what led you to make this error . . .There are plenty of alternatives, like giving the mount at the beginning of the story, or after the first collection, and making the rest of the time gated stuff about something else like an exclusive skin for the skygated that would have matching skins for the other mounts in the gem store. Or just more an ascended gear box.

Those are not better, just different. For players who enjoy the getting more than the having they would actually be worse . . .As for the timegate actually causing harm, look at my case and of many others that are 1 day behind the collections:I'm more than one day behind and I'm doing just fine. Again that's why personal experience is a bad argument. Anyone who feels like the game should be changed bc it would work out better for them has an inflated idea of their importance . . .

You say personal experience is a bad argument, but you're also arguing against others using your own personal experience -- "more than a day behind and doing fine".

There's really no need to be shooting down someone's feelings based on something they perceive as a negative experience, just because you're "doing fine". That's still your own personal experience.Ty, exactly my point. I was illustrating how your personal experience is a poor argument for making changes to the game bc the personal experiences of others (me) will be counter to yours and of equal value. If you are looking to make a change to the game, only arguments about how it will affect the game will be persuasive, the individual experience is irrelevant . . .@Ashen.2907 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Aetheldrake.6395 said:

@Gop.8713 said:It's like they want us to play the game or something . . .

well theyre gonna get a lot less gameplay by forcing people to wait for something. some people are like "im just gonna do the daily for this then go play something else" when they COULD just have the skyscale already and start working on gaining its masteries and learning how to use it. there are already so many daily things in game. dont make major new content time gated on top of the new content already having time gated events

So what's the alternative... have those same player go off complete the skyscale in a few hours then log off and go play something else until the next content update.If your just logging in to do a collection then ignore the rest of the map content/the game in general... perhaps question why...

If the game has nothing else to offer than an artificial time gate, probably yes. But then it's on the devs to ask "why are people not playing out content? ".This is a great point, but it does nothing to suggest that removing the time gate would improve the situation . . .

Removing the time gate increases the breadth of appeal of the content. People who want to slowly advance the progression over the course of days or weeks could do so while those desiring to do the same amount of work over a shorter period, and who have the free time, could do so.But how is that an improvement? In either case the player is leaving the game after they get their shiny. It would be great if the game could be all things to all players and one of gw2's great assets is its 'pick up and play' nature that allows players to take long breaks without falling behind but I'm not sure that those players should be favored over those who stick around during the 'droughts' and play both the new and the existing content . . .

How is making content enjoyable by more paying customers an improvement over having it enjoyed by fewer?

Is that a rhetorical question?No . . .

Ok then.

The larger a business' satisfied customer base the greater that business' potential to monetize that customer base. If a business identifies an element of (one of) its product(s) that can be tweaked to generater greater good will among the paying customer base then that tweak, particularly, as pointed out, as those enjoying the current implementation would retain their preferred approach to enjoying the product, is a good idea.

[Terc.5736]

You're not getting your "SKYSCALE TODAY" ! Honesty in advertising? Maybe a week or two!

[Daishi.6027]

"Time gates are fine, because it's fine." isn't much of an argument when there are people who don't find it fine, and simply being dismissive of their experience doesn't contribute anything. If the time gates were removed it would harm NO ONE and make people happy. So what? You want people to be unhappy because you don't want/or care about the thing in question? Or is it just schadenfreude?

This game has always been about skins and toys, that is a core part of the end game experience. Logging in, chilling, talking with people. The game is the equivalent to a theme park, each map is it's own ride, mini games are much like the game stands, WvW is like the waterpark where everyone gets soaked, and PvP is like the go carts where people can race each-other around all day.Saying that "people who rush through content don't add anything, they just get the shiny and leave, or stand around complaining about a lack of content" is disingenuous at best.

From personal experience I have been "end game" for at least 3 years, and yes there is a large up tick in my activity when new content is dropped, but I had no problems logging in to do the content I cared about, or just chill in towns, and i'd have played EVEN MORE if I didn't have black screen crash issues for quite a while and made it hard to commit to groups.

Anyways, I primarily PvP, much like how someone else would raid or frac, or others would WvW. There are also those who exclusively do open world content, and enjoy farming maps. As well as people who treat the game like a chat room and chill in towns all day playing/listening to music. Or those who primarily RP.Who are any of you to say what an individual does or doesn't add to the community when all you have is your own conceited view?

Maybe yes, some people don't like collections and hurry to complete them for the reward. Maybe some people play for hours to farm a chair or a skin from a Raid when they don't like to raid. Maybe us in PvP get casuls in queue to farm gold. Maybe some people literally buy their legendary with as much IRL money as possible because they don't like to farm. Or have to much going on IRL to farm but have more than enough disposable income.At the end of the day, we take our skins and toys back with us and have a good time.

Imagine being at a all inclusive theme park and after construction on day "X" you can come in and have fun at the new section. As advertised you get the 3 main attractions, however one of which being a fun utility you can use in the park, maybe for the analogy call it an app. (It's a difficult to insert mounts into the analogy) But then they say, and contrary to every other part of the park, "you can use this app IN IT'S LESSER VERSION, only in this section here for up to 22 days" and this isn't just a wait till it's completed thing, you have to actively keep doing things for this every day while you wait. But everyone wants to return to the part of the park they do care about, people might want to try the app in different places, or make games with it (like the way it was with beetle races), or maybe just mingle while playing on the app. The analogy falls apart a little since there is not IRL equivalent, but my point is it's not accessible and was a key component to the release.All time gates do is stop players from playing the way they want to play. After all the marketing and all the hype, they demand up to 22 days before you can have it.

This isn't like guild halls either where they implied from the beginning it would be a slow build and people KNEW to stack up resources. Also none of this is about effort No one is asking for it for free, set a challenge and players will overcome it for the reward. A-net seems to think whatever these collections are is worth the reward, so we'll do them. But saying you can only do a certain amount of the content per day is pointless delays. It doesn't make it more fun, how could it? It is what it is one way or the other. But it makes the entire experience less fun as it dangles you on a string making you wait when you have all the drive in the world to push on. Frankly I've been enjoying the collection. Only problem is I can't do more of it.

For those of you who spew the toxicity and dismiss that any of it matters I hope whatever goal you have next in the game, is unwanted by the rest of the community and you have to do 1 tedious fairly easy exercise per day for a half a year. Maybe your next legendary (if you even have one), whatever the normal amount of time it takes you to make it, tack on 6 months of something you can easily crank out in a day or two. It doesn't matter right? There's no point in rushing it.

[Danikat.8537]

So far it seems like the time gate will be irrelevant for me. I just finished the story today and got as far as speaking to Gorrik and discovering the first collection is actually 2 or more collections, so that on it's own is going to take me several days...oh and I can't play again until Monday. At this rate the time-gating won't actually get an opportunity to slow me down. Of course it's possible I'll reach a point where I finish one collection, have time to play more but can't start on the next one but I can't see it being a big problem, it's not like I don't have anything else to do in this game.

However I still don't understand why it's time-gated. I don't see what purpose it serves to drag the collection out for those who can complete it faster and want to do so. As this topic (and all the others) shows it doesn't get people to enjoy it more, it just creates frustration. I also think it would help if they had made it clearer that the skyscale is time-gated. The fact that there's a series of collections to do shouldn't be surprising since the griffon, beetle and warclaw worked the same way, but it seems the time gate caught a lot of people by surprise.

[daydreamer.3092]

i think the reason for timegating this is to prevent a burnout by doing this boring port and run grind for too long...why do we have to get back to the same positions again? why arent there any engaging quests to do instead? (brain drain i guess)

after finishing this i will never come back to this map again because i will remember this mindless grind and it will be a pain

[LucianDK.8615]

Theres still the new armors to work for.

[Cobrakon.3108]

Why Cant the Missions/Quests for the new mount be fun, why so many collections? why not a couple instanced fun story missions combined with a few collections and other gameplay mechanics?

[daydreamer.3092]

@"Cobrakon.3108" said:Why Cant the Missions/Quests for the new mount be fun, why so many collections? why not a couple instanced fun story missions combined with a few collections and other gameplay mechanics?

exactly my thoughts. looks like " hey we have a nice map, what to do with it?" "Lets place a few collections in there, so everyone is forced to see every corner" "But what if the ppl like stories and interesting enemies?" "sry, no time (and brains) left"

[Obtena.7952]

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:The fact is that most of the complaints don't make sense, so you can repeat them 2 or 3 or even 4 hundred times ... that doesn't make them more sensible.

having to rush content is definitely one of those nonsensical complaints.

What if your ideals dont make sense and you are the one who is wrong here? Can we consider this a possibility?

This isn't about me being wrong or right ... or you or other players. It's about understanding why Anet uses time gating. No one here complaining has ONCE attempted to think of why it's being used. It's just assumed that it 'does nothing'. Go back to the drawing board. Clearly, it's doing something, otherwise people wouldn't be here.

Ok now we are getting some where Ding Ding!

THATS THE ISSUE!

WE CANT TELL YOU WHY ITS BEING USED BECAUSE IT SHOULDNT HAVE BEEN. THERE WAS NO GOOD REASON THAT WE CAN SEE FOR IT.

That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Players not being able to understand Anet's motives is NOT a compelling reason for Anet to repeal time gated content.

[CJtheBigBear.9610]

Okay uh, wow. 370+ new comments since I went to bed. Wasn't expecting that.

Is ANet just merging every possible thread on this now? Don't get me wrong, I understand they don't want the forums to be clogged up with hundreds of same-y threads, but why merge this with the poll thread when it was already its own separate thing??? Only thing I can think is how it conveniently removes the poll that shows how an overwhelming majority of players didn't want to keep the time-gate in... ? But I digress.

Seriously though, coming up on 3 days without any response from a dev or something? You'd think with the forums, in-game, reddit, and even content creators creating such a stink about this, they'd wanna run a bit of damage control. :pensive:

[Obtena.7952]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:The fact is that most of the complaints don't make sense, so you can repeat them 2 or 3 or even 4 hundred times ... that doesn't make them more sensible.

having to rush content is definitely one of those nonsensical complaints.

What if your ideals dont make sense and you are the one who is wrong here? Can we consider this a possibility?

This isn't about me being wrong or right ... or you or other players. It's about understanding why Anet uses time gating. No one here complaining has ONCE attempted to think of why it's being used. It's just assumed that it 'does nothing'. Go back to the drawing board. Clearly, it's doing something, otherwise people wouldn't be here.

Ok now we are getting some where Ding Ding!

THATS THE ISSUE!

WE CANT TELL YOU WHY ITS BEING USED BECAUSE IT SHOULDNT HAVE BEEN. THERE WAS NO GOOD REASON THAT WE CAN SEE FOR IT.

That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Players not being able to understand Anet's motives is NOT a compelling reason for Anet to repeal time gated content.

Just some more thoughts ...

See here is the problem ... WHATEVER the reason is (we don't need to know it), you have to believe there is one, because it's more work for Anet to use time gating. If they didn't have a reason, why would time gate something if it's more work for them? I don't think they would, and it's pretty clear they use that approach sparingly. Therefore, ANY discussion you want to have about time gating that is based on the premise there is NO reason to use it is faulty, right out of the gate. It's not even worth engaging anyone in a discussion that believes there is NO reason to use time gating.

For fun ... HOW any anti-time gate posters do you think are using this platform to make their case? It's LOTS ... and they are all wrong.

[CJtheBigBear.9610]

@Obtena.7952 said:This isn't about me being wrong or right ... or you or other players. It's about understanding why Anet uses time gating. No one here complaining has ONCE attempted to think of why it's being used. It's just assumed that it 'does nothing'. Go back to the drawing board. Clearly, it's doing something, otherwise people wouldn't be here.

Sorry, but if you truly think no one is attempting to explain why it's used, you haven't been reading the same thread I have. You and others have been saying that it's "there to stop content binging" since the start of this thread, but that's just not true. If we were going off of the Day 1 assumption of 4 simple daily resets and you're done, then maybe I'd see that point a bit better. But now, with the advent of Day 3, we've now discovered a time-gate within a time-gate, that unless you have the 200 or more gold to buy the items required will take you 22 days, and still take you an extra 4 even if you did. That's almost a month for a THIRD of the collection. And we won't even know what Collections 4 and 5 entail until Sunday or later, which could contain even more time-gated content. Considering no other mount has ever come close to taking this much effort to obtain, so it's just absurd.

@"Obtena.7952" said:

That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Players not being able to understand ANet's motives is NOT a compelling reason for ANet to repeal time gated content.

How, pray tell, are we supposed to "understand ANet's motives" when they haven't even told us what their motives are? We got no information on launch, can't even figure out information until the time-gates are passed, and have gotten zero response from ANet as to why this is the way it is.

[Ashen.2907]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:The fact is that most of the complaints don't make sense, so you can repeat them 2 or 3 or even 4 hundred times ... that doesn't make them more sensible.

having to rush content is definitely one of those nonsensical complaints.

What if your ideals dont make sense and you are the one who is wrong here? Can we consider this a possibility?

This isn't about me being wrong or right ... or you or other players. It's about understanding why Anet uses time gating. No one here complaining has ONCE attempted to think of why it's being used. It's just assumed that it 'does nothing'. Go back to the drawing board. Clearly, it's doing something, otherwise people wouldn't be here.

You might want to check your, "facts," regarding what, and how often, other people think.

[Absconditus.6804]

@Gop.8713 said:

@Absconditus.6804 said:

@Gop.8713 said:The only really compelling argument I've seen against the time gate so far is that it is a lazy way to prolong the content and keep players invested in the map over a period of time, and I think that is a fair complaint. BUT, I haven't seen anyone present any reasonable alternative that accomplishes those goals nor have I seen anyone demonstrate that the time gate is causing any actual harm . . .

The harm it causes is burning players out within just a few days. I am in this boat. Due to the nature of the timegating being tied to needing to complete the previous stage before a daily reset, I feel compelled to push myself through collecting all the collectibles within just a single sitting, whereas otherwise I may have naturally spread it out over a few days as I did other content. That tires me and I barely feel like playing at the moment. I am just logging in and doing it to do it. Getting it to get it. There's no drive to do that other content anymore because I am spending so much time collecting the collectibles. Afterwards I just want to log out the moment that stupid timegate wall hits me. I've done my

job

for the day, time to clock out and go home to relax.This just doesn't make any sense to me. You're 'burned out' from completing a small portion of the collection so your solution is to make more of it available all at once? I'm not saying you don't feel this way, I'm just saying it doesn't make any rational sense and so will not be compelling to others . . .

I'll just kindly ask you to read what I wrote one more time. You clearly miss the part where I write that due to the daily reset requirement being there to unlock the following stage of the larger collection, psychologically this pushes me towards burning myself out on doing the collection in one sitting, rather than naturally spreading it out and doing it when I want to do it. Having more of it available at once, as in not having this stupid daily reset mechanic to unlock the next stage, would allow me to feel less pressured into completing the entire collection stage in one sitting. I don't want to leave it half finished and then get hit with another wall when I finish it the following day or the day after. Without this stupid daily reset mechanic, if I am tired of hunting the collectibles, I would be more compelled to do other content like I normally would, be that in the new map or elsewhere in the game. I mean, the entire thing I wrote says this, but you seemingly chose to discard it and make up a entirely different narrative in what I wrote. It's no better than everyone else defending this timegating calling those opposing it entitled, lazy and after instant gratification when a timegate has nothing to do with any of that. There's no effort in a timegate, its removal doesn't lessen the scope of the collection. It's the fact that I can't progress the next part of the collection before a daily reset that is the issue I have with the timegating. Not because I want to do it all in one day, which due to the third stage's timegating within the timegate makes impossible at any rate. It's because the daily reset timegate, as I wrote and write once more now, psychologically pushes me to grind it out in one sitting. That burns me out. It's what the majority of posts I have read opposing the timegating is talking about, but nearly every single pro-timegate post choose to ignore entirely and just discard as whining to be able to get it without effort (which makes absolutely no sense — again, the timegating does not equal any sort of skill or effort). I guess I should repeat myself one more time, the daily reset mechanic adds a feeling for certain people of losing out if they don't complete whatever stage they are on, thus they feel as if they have to grind it out, even when they don't want to and are tired of doing this task at the given time. No, there's no gun to our heads. But it has that effect. It feels like a chore because you are doing so much of it in a single sitting with the time you have available to play Guild Wars 2.

The better question is, in what possible way would it negatively affect you who don't mind the timegate, if it weren't there? Why are certain people being pro-timegate, how is it benefiting them. How is it rewarding them. What is it about it that makes it worth defending? I have yet to see anyone defending it provide a reason as to what's so great about the timegate, for them. How is it elevating your gameplay experience so much that you need to defend it.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Alright, I'm not THAT big of a PvE guy outside of T4/CM fractals & Raids at this point. Usually I do content once for the story which I enjoy, and just pick up whatever achievements/unlocks that I actually want for my wardrobe. I've never complained about any of the other achievements/unlocks, mainly because other content was designed to keep you doing something interesting during the collections. For example, grinding a GoB allows you to stay in WvW and during that time you can forget why you're even there, and have something engaging to do during the process. Another example, PvP Wings which mostly revolves around getting players competitive and doing something engaging while working towards what they want. Other examples are, Fractal Wings, various Ascended Weapons, ect ect.. they task you with actually doing things that are engaging and rewarding in other areas while working towards what they want. Hell, I didn't even complain about the Griffon unlock. It was a bit tedious but it wasn't completely ridiculous.

However.. this is how I've felt so far about the Skyscale unlock achievements. The actual phases of reaction I had:

1. OK, I just finished the story and I've got the full map completion uncovered, let's do this.
2. Alright nothing new, it's another collection. Gonna start getting these scales.
3. Damn, this one is taking awhile. I hope the others aren't this grindy.
4. Some odd hours later I'm thinking: "Alright got one down. Man it's kind of annoying to have to keep alt/tabbing out of my game to refer to guides to even be able to finish something like this in a reasonable time frame. Thank god for the guides though or it would unreasonable to ever finish these collection achievements."
5. Go to start medicine achievement. Wait, what? I have to run 10 events in each lane now? Hrm… Ok let's do this.
6. Some odd hours later after completing it in a few metas and buying the medicine I'm thinking: "Oh wow, I've spent most of my day on this already and I really haven't gotten anything done."
7. Go to Gorrik and he tells me I have to go distribute medicine to various Skyscales around the map. OK so it's another super collection hunt.. here we go.. alright let's do it.. But first I've got to sleep.. that took all day.
8. Wake up and resume play while refreshed and mentally ready to grind another collection. Some odd hours later, finish the distribute medicine.
9. Go to Gorrik and he tells me that I must now go find eggs and boy oh boy are there a lot of them. I'm thinking: "Are you 'ing serious right now? I have to go back to the same places I was just at for another Easter Egg Hunt, literally in this case, again? WOW, I think I'm actually getting irritated by these achievements for once."
10. Some odd hours later finish eggs and return to Gorrik. I had woken up with nothing to do that day and had planned to finish the achievements to unlock Skyscale. I had actually scheduled and made time for this. I had ran up to my local Dollar General and bought a bunch of beef jerky, doritos, cheese dip, and mountain dew just for the occasion. But when I returned to Gorrik, he reluctantly told me to put down the beef jerky, to seal up my bag of doritos, to put my chees dip & mountain back in the fridge, because now I was going to have to wait for the daily reset to resume the achievement, only a few hours into my day of gaming.
11. I sat and looked at the screen with the expression of a man pondering "Wtf?" I wasn't sure if I was mad about it or stressed out from all the previous grinding up to that point because it was a lot. All I knew is that I had a full day off, was ready to get something done gaming wise, but now I had to wait. It felt like a like blow tbh.
12. So I figured I'd try to do some of the other achievements while waiting for the daily reset. I wanted to finish obtaining the armor pieces and all I had left was to complete bridge events and to kill 4 bosses at the end of the meta. But honestly at that point, I just logged offline because I was pissed off.

Not even gonna get philosophical & psychological here. Just gonna say that, time gating feels bad man. It's no fun, waiting is no fun. And forever Easter Egg hunts that steer you away from engaging gameplay are not fun either. And it is in general not fun when something has a ridiculous amount of achievements to complete to obtain. If something has a ridiculous amount of achievements to complete to obtain, it better be worth it.

I'd also like to point out what I feel is the difference between "Good Difficult" and "Bad Difficult or sometimes I describe as Painful." Good Difficult is like Fractals & Raids. They are challenging and engaging to the player's mechanical skill and knowledge of the game. Bad Difficult or Painful, is having to run circles in the same places over and over again for multiple collections that take several several hours to complete. This is unengaging and extremely boring because it does not pose a challenge to a player's skill or knowledge of the game. It only poses a challenge to their patience, which begins to stir great frustration while playing. At least it certainly does that to me.

I truly enjoyed all of this LW content. The end was a great finale. Actually all of PoF was pretty kick ass tbh. But boy oh boy those ultra Easter Egg Treasure Hunting Adventures, would it be possible if we could lay off of that, just a little bit?

[Kidel.2057]

@daydreamer.3092 said:i think the reason for timegating this is to prevent a burnout by doing this boring port and run grind for too long...why do we have to get back to the same positions again? why arent there any engaging quests to do instead? (brain drain i guess)

after finishing this i will never come back to this map again because i will remember this mindless grind and it will be a pain

This only make sense for the collections that need the daily reset. What about the feeding achievement that requires 4 days of clicking 1 button once a day? You can only feed the skyscale 3 times a day and you need to feed it 12 times

[Obtena.7952]

@CJtheBigBear.9610 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:

That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Players not being able to understand ANet's motives is NOT a compelling reason for ANet to repeal time gated content.

How, pray tell, are we supposed to "understand ANet's motives" when they haven't even told us what their motives are? We got no information on launch, can't even figure out information until the time-gates are passed, and have gotten zero response from ANet as to why this is the way it is.

You're not, but you don't need to. That doesn't mean those motives don't exist and they didn't have a reason to use time-gating.

[Melian.5368]

Timegating is one thing but making players depend on RNG just to be able to complete the collections is another crime in itself. In the Claw of Jormag boss event a lot of people can't progress because darned elementals don't freeze them due to the sheer number of players, pets and minions around.