[Suggestion] More practical Options for Female Armour

[MrPhantasia.5924]

@ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

@MrPhantasia.5924 said:

@"Dawdler.8521" said:There is plenty of armor in the game that look

exactly

like in your pic.

Why do you call it juvenile though? If your high end armorers had the capability of basicly making wearable Chobham armor 0.2 inches thick along with literal magical forcefields protecting any "bare midriff" and absorbing kinetic energy would not warriors

want

something as skintight and mobile as possible? Its like... Level 10 blue is Iron Man 1 level of armor. Level 80 Exotic and higher is Infinity War Iron Man.

This kitten here is unforgivable.

It's unforgivable alright. Where's my bare thigh male phalanxes with mohawk styled helmets?

Oh right, it's the female that has that exact armour description...

You're missing the point in that because of the gender differences between the armor sets means that female characters can never use skins that look like the male phalanx skin set. At least stuff like Elonian Elementalist armor has the decency to be consistent between both genders.

Guild wars 2 should approach it's armor like the Dark Souls and Bloodborne series do.

If an armor set looks like this on male characters:

Then it should look like this on female characters.

And if you're going to make armor sets that look like this on female characters:

Then male characters should get this treatment.

There are are only a few armor sets in the entire series that break from this.

[VDAC.2137]

@MrPhantasia.5924 said:

@ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

@MrPhantasia.5924 said:

@"Dawdler.8521" said:There is plenty of armor in the game that look

exactly

like in your pic.

Why do you call it juvenile though? If your high end armorers had the capability of basicly making wearable Chobham armor 0.2 inches thick along with literal magical forcefields protecting any "bare midriff" and absorbing kinetic energy would not warriors

want

something as skintight and mobile as possible? Its like... Level 10 blue is Iron Man 1 level of armor. Level 80 Exotic and higher is Infinity War Iron Man.

This kitten here is unforgivable.

It's unforgivable alright. Where's my bare thigh male phalanxes with mohawk styled helmets?

Oh right, it's the female that has that exact armour description...

You're missing the point in that because of the gender differences between the armor sets means that female characters can never use skins that look like the male phalanx skin set. At least stuff like Elonian Elementalist armor has the decency to be consistent between both genders.

Guild wars 2 should approach it's armor like the Dark Souls and Bloodborne series do.

If an armor set looks like this on male characters:

Then it should look like this on female characters.

And if you're going to make armor sets that look like this on female characters:

Then male characters should get this treatment.

There are are only a few armor sets in the entire series that break from this.

Hell yes! =)

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

@MrPhantasia.5924 said:

@ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

@MrPhantasia.5924 said:

@"Dawdler.8521" said:There is plenty of armor in the game that look

exactly

like in your pic.

Why do you call it juvenile though? If your high end armorers had the capability of basicly making wearable Chobham armor 0.2 inches thick along with literal magical forcefields protecting any "bare midriff" and absorbing kinetic energy would not warriors

want

something as skintight and mobile as possible? Its like... Level 10 blue is Iron Man 1 level of armor. Level 80 Exotic and higher is Infinity War Iron Man.

This kitten here is unforgivable.

It's unforgivable alright. Where's my bare thigh male phalanxes with mohawk styled helmets?

Oh right, it's the female that has that exact armour description...

You're missing the point in that because of the gender differences between the armor sets means that female characters can never use skins that look like the male phalanx skin set. At least stuff like Elonian Elementalist armor has the decency to be consistent between both genders.

Guild wars 2 should approach it's armor like the Dark Souls and Bloodborne series do.

I didn't miss the point. Your point was wrong to begin with because you're trying to make it sound like the female armour was ridiculous when it was following the theme of a Phalanx on point when the male armour was nowhere near it.

As for your current point, they already did that with Charr and Asura and to be honest, I think it's terrible. It just kills uniqueness. Charr Male and Female look exactly the same when wearing the same armourset and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference at first glance. Same goes for Asura. At least Human, Norn and Sylvari actually feel unique when you choose male or female armour. And in terms of the whole "why can't female look like male", that's a question that goes both ways as per my example; Why does the female Phalanx armour look like a Phalanx but the male armour doesn't? Male armour is literally anything BUT Phalanx.

[MrPhantasia.5924]

@ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

@MrPhantasia.5924 said:

@ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

@MrPhantasia.5924 said:

@"Dawdler.8521" said:There is plenty of armor in the game that look

exactly

like in your pic.

Why do you call it juvenile though? If your high end armorers had the capability of basicly making wearable Chobham armor 0.2 inches thick along with literal magical forcefields protecting any "bare midriff" and absorbing kinetic energy would not warriors

want

something as skintight and mobile as possible? Its like... Level 10 blue is Iron Man 1 level of armor. Level 80 Exotic and higher is Infinity War Iron Man.

This kitten here is unforgivable.

It's unforgivable alright. Where's my bare thigh male phalanxes with mohawk styled helmets?

Oh right, it's the female that has that exact armour description...

You're missing the point in that because of the gender differences between the armor sets means that female characters can never use skins that look like the male phalanx skin set. At least stuff like Elonian Elementalist armor has the decency to be consistent between both genders.

Guild wars 2 should approach it's armor like the Dark Souls and Bloodborne series do.

I didn't miss the point. Your point was wrong to begin with because you're trying to make it sound like the female armour was ridiculous when it was following the theme of a Phalanx on point when the male armour was nowhere near it.And in terms of the whole "why can't female look like male", that's a question that goes both ways as per my example; Why does the female Phalanx armour look like a Phalanx but the male armour doesn't? Male armour is literally anything BUT Phalanx.

The female phalanx doesn't look close to a hoplite.

Getting pedantic about naming compared to specific skins only existing for male characters while female characters get this awful looking mini skirt boobwindow thing that shares zero characteristics with the male armor is deliberately trying to derail and bog down the conversation. Perfected Envoy armor is neither perfect, nor does it have anything to do with Envoys, either.

And besides, you can very easily get the appearance of a hoplite without the use of one specific set already.

As for your current point, they already did that with Charr and Asura and to be honest, I think it's terrible. It just kills uniqueness. Charr Male and Female look exactly the same when wearing the same armourset and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference at first glance. Same goes for Asura. At least Human, Norn and Sylvari actually feel unique when you choose male or female armour.

This has more to do with how the skeleton rigs for both genders of Asura and Charr use largely the same animations. Human, norn, and sylvari all have a lot of different animations for all sorts of tasks like how they hold a weapon while they stand, run, or walk, and it's not different for fanservice's sake.

Your argument that "If there isn't underboob, cleavage, platemale bikinis and boobplates then why have women characters at all!?" basically defeats itself.

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

@"MrPhantasia.5924" said:Getting pedantic about naming compared to specific skins only existing for male characters while female characters get this awful looking mini skirt boobwindow thing that shares zero characteristics with the male armor is deliberately trying to derail and bog down the conversation. Perfected Envoy armor is neither perfect, nor does it have anything to do with Envoys, either.

And besides, you can very easily get the appearance of a hoplite without the use of one specific set already.

So as of right now, my point still stands. Why doesn't the Phalanx male set look like a Phalanx like female? You literally just went and dodged the point because there was an armour that came to the same description as an actual Phalanx armour. That still doesn't justify the fact that a male armour called a Phalanx armour is still not a Phalanx Armour but the female one is. If you're gonna go tell me I'm going pedantic, try actually looking at your argument because you're argument is literally "This armour is this for male, therefore female should be the same because this is the design that is made".

This has more to do with how the skeleton rigs for both genders of Asura and Charr use largely the same animations. Human, norn, and sylvari all have a lot of different animations for all sorts of tasks like how they hold a weapon while they stand, run, or walk, and it's not different for fanservice's sake.

Your argument that "If there isn't underboob, cleavage, platemale bikinis and boobplates then why have women characters at all!?" basically defeats itself.

That has nothing to do with animation, what are you on about? Animations of a race doesn't affect their armour aesthetics, armour aesthetics are affected by appearance of a character. Charr and Asura have differing characteristics in male and female, even if their animations are the same. They can definitely make male and female Asura and Charr characters look aesthetically unique between male and female and it won't do anything to the animation.

And already you misinterpreted my argument. I never stated anything about boobs like you did. My argument was that male and female armours should look unique to one another. You were the one who focused on boobs after I pointed out how your example was completely wrong.

[White Kitsunee.4620]

@ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

@MrPhantasia.5924 said:same. They can definitely make male and female Asura and Charr characters look aesthetically unique between male and female and it won't do anything to the

Idk man a lot of people have mistaking my charr's gender over the years.

[MrPhantasia.5924]

@ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

@"MrPhantasia.5924" said:Getting pedantic about naming compared to specific skins only existing for male characters while female characters get this awful looking mini skirt boobwindow thing that shares zero characteristics with the male armor is deliberately trying to derail and bog down the conversation. Perfected Envoy armor is neither perfect, nor does it have anything to do with Envoys, either.

And besides, you can very easily get the appearance of a hoplite without the use of one specific set already.

So as of right now, my point still stands. Why doesn't the Phalanx male set look like a Phalanx like female? You literally just went and dodged the point because there was an armour that came to the same description as an actual Phalanx armour. That still doesn't justify the fact that a male armour called a Phalanx armour is still not a Phalanx Armour but the female one is. If you're gonna go tell me I'm going pedantic, try actually looking at your argument because you're argument is literally "This armour is this for male, therefore female should be the same because this is the design that is made".

This has more to do with how the skeleton rigs for both genders of Asura and Charr use largely the same animations. Human, norn, and sylvari all have a lot of different animations for all sorts of tasks like how they hold a weapon while they stand, run, or walk, and it's not different for fanservice's sake.

Your argument that "If there isn't underboob, cleavage, platemale bikinis and boobplates then why have women characters at all!?" basically defeats itself.

That has nothing to do with animation, what are you on about? Animations of a race doesn't affect their armour aesthetics, armour aesthetics are affected by appearance of a character. Charr and Asura have differing characteristics in male and female, even if their animations are the same. They can definitely make male and female Asura and Charr characters look aesthetically unique between male and female and it won't do anything to the animation.

And already you misinterpreted my argument. I never stated anything about boobs like you did. My argument was that male and female armours should look unique to one another. You were the one who focused on boobs after I pointed out how your example was completely wrong.

This is like getting genuinely annoyed Guild Wars 2 doesn't completely revolve around guild wars when the name is Guild Wars 2. "It's not that I want female characters dressed in revealing outfits and that I keep defending the miniskirt armor, it's about ethics in video game armor set naming conventions."

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

@"MrPhantasia.5924" said:This is like getting genuinely annoyed Guild Wars 2 doesn't completely revolve around guild wars when the name is Guild Wars 2. "It's not that I want female characters dressed in revealing outfits and that I keep defending the miniskirt armor, it's about ethics in video game armor set naming conventions."

Ah so you're going by ad hominem approach. Good to know your argument was pointless and pretty much lost then since I never stated anything about miniskirts, or anything revealing for that matter aside from the Phalanx armour cuz it was an argument about thematic similarities not some crummy ethic you're trying to impose on GW2's designs

[Obtena.7952]

Really? We are talking about imposing ethics on naming conventions for armor sets? This actually bothers someone? Who let the government in here?

[VDAC.2137]

@"ChronoPinoyX.7923" said:

As for your current point, they already did that with Charr and Asura and to be honest, I think it's terrible. It just kills uniqueness. Charr Male and Female look exactly the same when wearing the same armourset and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference at first glance. Same goes for Asura. At least Human, Norn and Sylvari actually feel unique when you choose male or female armour. And in terms of the whole "why can't female look like male", that's a question that goes both ways as per my example; Why does the female Phalanx armour look like a Phalanx but the male armour doesn't? Male armour is literally anything BUT Phalanx.

Absolutely it should go both ways! I have no desire to put any of my male characters in that iron man suit for instance, plus other examples I’ve given previously.

As for the armors looking the same destroying uniqueness, I disagree on that. 1) You’d have nearly twice as many options to give your character a unique look. 2) If the armor is at all fitted it will still look different depending on build. You don’t see this so much in charr and asura because the male and female rigs are more similar, or at least appear so to me. 3) Depending in part on the build you choose, the gender of your character shouldn’t have to be obvious if you don’t want it to be. Nondescript robes might look the same on most people and that’s the point! My thief can dress to kill when she wants to, but on the job, it’s better to not call attention with underboob and clunky blades! (For my thief — maybe yours uses the underboob as a lure or a distraction. ;) I am always in favor of more options!)

[MrPhantasia.5924]

@ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

@"MrPhantasia.5924" said:Getting pedantic about naming compared to specific skins only existing for male characters while female characters get this awful looking mini skirt boobwindow thing that shares zero characteristics with the male armor is deliberately trying to derail and bog down the conversation. Perfected Envoy armor is neither perfect, nor does it have anything to do with Envoys, either.

And besides, you can very easily get the appearance of a hoplite without the use of one specific set already.

So as of right now, my point still stands. Why doesn't the Phalanx male set look like a Phalanx like female? You literally just went and dodged the point because there was an armour that came to the same description as an actual Phalanx armour. That still doesn't justify the fact that a male armour called a Phalanx armour is still not a Phalanx Armour but the female one is. If you're gonna go tell me I'm going pedantic, try actually looking at your argument because you're argument is literally "This armour is this for male, therefore female should be the same because this is the design that is made".

This has more to do with how the skeleton rigs for both genders of Asura and Charr use largely the same animations. Human, norn, and sylvari all have a lot of different animations for all sorts of tasks like how they hold a weapon while they stand, run, or walk, and it's not different for fanservice's sake.

Your argument that "If there isn't underboob, cleavage, platemale bikinis and boobplates then why have women characters at all!?" basically defeats itself.

That has nothing to do with animation, what are you on about? Animations of a race doesn't affect their armour aesthetics, armour aesthetics are affected by appearance of a character.Charr and Asura have differing characteristics in male and female, even if their animations are the same. They can definitely make male and female Asura and Charr characters look aesthetically unique between male and female and it won't do anything to the animation.

Because I play a lot of PvP with standard enemy models and with classes like necro or guardian which run some of the few armor sets with minimal aethetic difference its very easy to tell even at a glance which are male and female characters just at a glance because of build, postire, and animation.

And already you misinterpreted my argument. I never stated anything about boobs like you did. My argument was that male and female armours should look unique to one another. You were the one who focused on boobs after I pointed out how your example was completely wrong.

"I'm not saying all female armor needs to skimpy. I'm just pointing towards to heavy plated low cut top armor set as an example of how to do armor skins on female characters the right way right instead of making them all just look like mans."

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

@VDAC.2137 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@"AzzyBelle.3791" said:'Some women are empowered by modest clothing, others are empowered by wearing more revealing clothing,

both are valid

and

neither

has

any

right to criticize the other. '

! (The same applies for anyone wearing any kind of clothing, but this discussion was brought forward with female's armor specifically.)

That is where we disagree. See,

both

have

every

right to criticize the other. Fashion choices and design aesthetics are not sacrosanct, nor are they mysterious beyond comprehension. You can apply logic and, dare I say, science to it. If a person disagrees with your choices, they'll have reasons why. If you don't hash out those reason and retreat into your own shell, then the whole thing breaks down into a thankless sectarian conflict where both sides vie for influence instead of being reasonable. If the design aesthetics of this game are bringing harm to people, then it is a greater disrespect to

not

say something than it is to speak up. Then, you disagree with their conclusion and their reasoning, and not on their willingness to speak or think on the matter. The tl;dr of all this is: Never trust anyone who tells you not to think.

---

However I digress. Whenever one of these threads comes up, it is all a proxy conversation for the real reason behind this thread. Somebody has decided that they don't want sexy armors in this game, but they don't directly say it. Instead, we see passive-aggressive complaints about how it is hard to dress their characters, or how it isn't fair that the armor isn't identical between the sexes, or how it breaks RP, or something else along those line. This shifts the debate from the logical domain to the emotional one, where the eggshell plaintiffs hold the power. Instead of presenting their case, they just presume it true and shift the subject into how badly they're hurt by the unstated premises, hoping nobody notices.

This whole song and dance played out

the last thread

that this debate showed up in.

Not at all! I’m all for people having a variety of sexy or revealing outfits for their characters! For me at least, the problem can be summed up: Why are male and female armors completely different, as in the egregious example shown? How are those even considered the same armors??? Both options should be available to either gender. There are many times I will like how an armor looks only to be disappointed by the version available to my character. Sometimes I do think a particular female armor looks ridiculous (human female assassin armor) and would like the in this case more practical male version. I’m all for other players’ characters showing as much boob as they want but it wasn’t what I wanted for my assassin. Likewise, I am annoyed that there aren’t more sexy options for male characters. There are a few revealing options but more than that I would like to see some fitted options that don’t make them look like flat shapeless boxes. Right now for guys it’s either butt cape or totally flat rear. :anguished:

I support more options for all! :+1:

That's easy to explain. Men and women have different ideals in beauty. We have different physiology, and the human brain perceives men and women differently. I.E. women are seen as a set of different parts while men are seen as the sum of their whole, we specifically look for the hourglass shape in women and for strength in men, and we have different social roles based on our biology. Because of this, we have different expectations in aesthetics between the sexes.

Because of this, making the armor sets between men and women the same is neither ideal, nor is it practical. First, it would take a lot of effort to double the number of skins on the norn, human, and sylvari models. Second, it wouldn't be fair for the Asura and Charr models, which aren't different between the sexes. These two races would only get half the skins of the other ones. Third, all of this effort will produce absolutely nothing. There would be no further income for GW2 garnered by this addition. All of the players who are happy with the differences in armors (I.E. most of them) won't change their sets or buy gems. All of the players who aren't happy but are still here have already chosen their "practical options" and won't do much to tweak their sets, let alone buy gems. All of the players who don't play GW2... probably aren't going to come and play the game just because of some armor parity decision.

I've seen this issue play out in Runescape. In its early days, there was very little differences between men and women in the game, especially in plate mail. There were a lot of complaints about this. Turns out, most players make a woman character because they want to play a woman character, and not a smaller man with a higher pitch voice. We want to see the feminine figure, both in shape and in motion. This is the fourth point: only a select few people actually demand the removal of dimorphic armor, or full parity of armor between the sexes. Everyone else is not only content with women and men looking different, but are glad that they do. It takes an outside, motivated ideology to make such demands of the game.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

@ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

@MrPhantasia.5924 said:

@ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

@MrPhantasia.5924 said:

@"Dawdler.8521" said:There is plenty of armor in the game that look

exactly

like in your pic.

Why do you call it juvenile though? If your high end armorers had the capability of basicly making wearable Chobham armor 0.2 inches thick along with literal magical forcefields protecting any "bare midriff" and absorbing kinetic energy would not warriors

want

something as skintight and mobile as possible? Its like... Level 10 blue is Iron Man 1 level of armor. Level 80 Exotic and higher is Infinity War Iron Man.

This kitten here is unforgivable.

It's unforgivable alright. Where's my bare thigh male phalanxes with mohawk styled helmets?

Oh right, it's the female that has that exact armour description...

You're missing the point in that because of the gender differences between the armor sets means that female characters can never use skins that look like the male phalanx skin set. At least stuff like Elonian Elementalist armor has the decency to be consistent between both genders.

Guild wars 2 should approach it's armor like the Dark Souls and Bloodborne series do.

I didn't miss the point. Your point was wrong to begin with because you're trying to make it sound like the female armour was ridiculous when it was following the theme of a Phalanx on point when the male armour was nowhere near it.

As for your current point, they already did that with Charr and Asura and to be honest, I think it's terrible. It just kills uniqueness. Charr Male and Female look exactly the same when wearing the same armourset and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference at first glance. Same goes for Asura. At least Human, Norn and Sylvari actually feel unique when you choose male or female armour. And in terms of the whole "why can't female look like male", that's a question that goes both ways as per my example; Why does the female Phalanx armour look like a Phalanx but the male armour doesn't? Male armour is literally anything BUT Phalanx.

The difference is noticed with some outfits. As the female charr will have the Female version of the outfit on. And it looks extremely weird to see a charr with a compression bra.

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@VDAC.2137 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@"AzzyBelle.3791" said:'Some women are empowered by modest clothing, others are empowered by wearing more revealing clothing,

both are valid

and

neither

has

any

right to criticize the other. '

! (The same applies for anyone wearing any kind of clothing, but this discussion was brought forward with female's armor specifically.)

That is where we disagree. See,

both

have

every

right to criticize the other. Fashion choices and design aesthetics are not sacrosanct, nor are they mysterious beyond comprehension. You can apply logic and, dare I say, science to it. If a person disagrees with your choices, they'll have reasons why. If you don't hash out those reason and retreat into your own shell, then the whole thing breaks down into a thankless sectarian conflict where both sides vie for influence instead of being reasonable. If the design aesthetics of this game are bringing harm to people, then it is a greater disrespect to

not

say something than it is to speak up. Then, you disagree with their conclusion and their reasoning, and not on their willingness to speak or think on the matter. The tl;dr of all this is: Never trust anyone who tells you not to think.

---

However I digress. Whenever one of these threads comes up, it is all a proxy conversation for the real reason behind this thread. Somebody has decided that they don't want sexy armors in this game, but they don't directly say it. Instead, we see passive-aggressive complaints about how it is hard to dress their characters, or how it isn't fair that the armor isn't identical between the sexes, or how it breaks RP, or something else along those line. This shifts the debate from the logical domain to the emotional one, where the eggshell plaintiffs hold the power. Instead of presenting their case, they just presume it true and shift the subject into how badly they're hurt by the unstated premises, hoping nobody notices.

This whole song and dance played out

the last thread

that this debate showed up in.

Not at all! I’m all for people having a variety of sexy or revealing outfits for their characters! For me at least, the problem can be summed up: Why are male and female armors completely different, as in the egregious example shown? How are those even considered the same armors??? Both options should be available to either gender. There are many times I will like how an armor looks only to be disappointed by the version available to my character. Sometimes I do think a particular female armor looks ridiculous (human female assassin armor) and would like the in this case more practical male version. I’m all for other players’ characters showing as much boob as they want but it wasn’t what I wanted for my assassin. Likewise, I am annoyed that there aren’t more sexy options for male characters. There are a few revealing options but more than that I would like to see some fitted options that don’t make them look like flat shapeless boxes. Right now for guys it’s either butt cape or totally flat rear. :anguished:

I support more options for all! :+1:

That's easy to explain. Men and women have different ideals in beauty. We have different physiology, and the human brain perceives men and women differently. I.E. women are seen as a set of different parts while men are seen as the sum of their whole, we specifically look for the hourglass shape in women and for strength in men, and we have different social roles based on our biology. Because of this, we have different expectations in aesthetics between the sexes.

Because of this, making the armor sets between men and women the same is neither ideal, nor is it practical. First, it would take a lot of effort to double the number of skins on the norn, human, and sylvari models. Second, it wouldn't be fair for the Asura and Charr models, which aren't different between the sexes. These two races would only get half the skins of the other ones. Third, all of this effort will produce absolutely nothing. There would be no further income for GW2 garnered by this addition. All of the players who are happy with the differences in armors (I.E. most of them) won't change their sets or buy gems. All of the players who aren't happy but are still here have already chosen their "practical options" and won't do much to tweak their sets, let alone buy gems. All of the players who don't play GW2... probably aren't going to come and play the game just because of some armor parity decision.

I've seen this issue play out in Runescape. In its early days, there was very little differences between men and women in the game, especially in plate mail. There were a lot of complaints about this. Turns out, most players make a woman character because they want to play a woman character, and not a smaller man with a higher pitch voice. We want to see the feminine figure, both in shape and in motion. This is the fourth point: only a select few people actually demand the removal of dimorphic armor, or full parity of armor between the sexes. Everyone else is not only content with women and men looking different, but are glad that they do. It takes an outside, motivated ideology to make such demands of the game.

A small correction.

The Shape of beauty for Men is an upside down traingle shape for their torso. Where they have much braoder shoulders while it slims down to their waist. Which is a much harder appearance to achieve as most men have a natural rectanglular shape. Trying to fix that, and you might go into a feminine shape.

[Weindrasi.3805]

To those who argue that because it's a world full of magic, we should have even more revealing armor: I offer this counterargument:I'm a female who deals with imagery of sexualized women in real life every day, in every place. From burger advertising to cars and so on, sex sells. And near-naked female bodies that have been photo-altered to impossible perfection sell best.As a woman, that is SO discouraging.When I go into a fantasy world full of magic, I want to escape the things that hurt me in real life. Other people can play whatever they choose--because escape and fantasy are different for everyone. And if other people choose revealing armor, that is fine with me.But I wish there were more female body and clothing options for MY escape--that is, options that are totally NON-sexual in every way. Options that let me forget the pressures of being a woman in real life--and instead be a bad-ass hero for a while.Charr females are great, and I play them almost exclusively to get my escape. But I wish I could have a human female whose body shape and armor design are similar--where sexuality is not the point. I want a human female who looks like a normal woman like me, not an airbrushed model with poreless skin and anime body.

[MrPhantasia.5924]

@Weindrasi.3805 said:To those who argue that because it's a world full of magic, we should have even more revealing armor: I offer this counterargument:I'm a female who deals with imagery of sexualized women in real life every day, in every place. From burger advertising to cars and so on, sex sells. And near-naked female bodies that have been photo-altered to impossible perfection sell best.As a woman, that is SO discouraging.When I go into a fantasy world full of magic, I want to escape the things that hurt me in real life. Other people can play whatever they choose--because escape and fantasy are different for everyone. And if other people choose revealing armor, that is fine with me.But I wish there were more female body and clothing options for MY escape--that is, options that are totally NON-sexual in every way. Options that let me forget the pressures of being a woman in real life--and instead be a bad-kitten hero for a while.Charr females are great, and I play them almost exclusively to get my escape. But I wish I could have a human female whose body shape and armor design are similar--where sexuality is not the point. I want a human female who looks like a normal woman like me, not an airbrushed model with poreless skin and anime body.

Don't you understand how empowering it is to be a boob ninja? /s

[Thornwolf.9721]

I just want my kilts and fur/bone/hide armor. LET ME BE CONAN THE BARBARIAN ON MY MALE NORN DAMN IT ALL!

[Dawdler.8521]

@Thornwolf.9721 said:I just want my kilts and fur/bone/hide armor. LET ME BE CONAN THE BARBARIAN ON MY MALE NORN kitten IT ALL!Tribal armor is quite literally fur, bone and... well not hide, but feathers. And a huge honking skirt.

But granted, you'd have to be an elementalist barbarian or something.

And if Mako would have been Conan running around halfnaked tossing fireball and punching camels in the kneecaps I think we can all agree the movie would have been 10x better.

[VDAC.2137]

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@VDAC.2137 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@"AzzyBelle.3791" said:'Some women are empowered by modest clothing, others are empowered by wearing more revealing clothing,

both are valid

and

neither

has

any

right to criticize the other. '

! (The same applies for anyone wearing any kind of clothing, but this discussion was brought forward with female's armor specifically.)

That is where we disagree. See,

both

have

every

right to criticize the other. Fashion choices and design aesthetics are not sacrosanct, nor are they mysterious beyond comprehension. You can apply logic and, dare I say, science to it. If a person disagrees with your choices, they'll have reasons why. If you don't hash out those reason and retreat into your own shell, then the whole thing breaks down into a thankless sectarian conflict where both sides vie for influence instead of being reasonable. If the design aesthetics of this game are bringing harm to people, then it is a greater disrespect to

not

say something than it is to speak up. Then, you disagree with their conclusion and their reasoning, and not on their willingness to speak or think on the matter. The tl;dr of all this is: Never trust anyone who tells you not to think.

---

However I digress. Whenever one of these threads comes up, it is all a proxy conversation for the real reason behind this thread. Somebody has decided that they don't want sexy armors in this game, but they don't directly say it. Instead, we see passive-aggressive complaints about how it is hard to dress their characters, or how it isn't fair that the armor isn't identical between the sexes, or how it breaks RP, or something else along those line. This shifts the debate from the logical domain to the emotional one, where the eggshell plaintiffs hold the power. Instead of presenting their case, they just presume it true and shift the subject into how badly they're hurt by the unstated premises, hoping nobody notices.

This whole song and dance played out

the last thread

that this debate showed up in.

Not at all! I’m all for people having a variety of sexy or revealing outfits for their characters! For me at least, the problem can be summed up: Why are male and female armors completely different, as in the egregious example shown? How are those even considered the same armors??? Both options should be available to either gender. There are many times I will like how an armor looks only to be disappointed by the version available to my character. Sometimes I do think a particular female armor looks ridiculous (human female assassin armor) and would like the in this case more practical male version. I’m all for other players’ characters showing as much boob as they want but it wasn’t what I wanted for my assassin. Likewise, I am annoyed that there aren’t more sexy options for male characters. There are a few revealing options but more than that I would like to see some fitted options that don’t make them look like flat shapeless boxes. Right now for guys it’s either butt cape or totally flat rear. :anguished:

I support more options for all! :+1:

That's easy to explain. Men and women have different ideals in beauty. We have different physiology, and the human brain perceives men and women differently. I.E. women are seen as a set of different parts while men are seen as the sum of their whole, we specifically look for the hourglass shape in women and for strength in men, and we have different social roles based on our biology. Because of this, we have different expectations in aesthetics between the sexes.

Because of this, making the armor sets between men and women the same is neither ideal, nor is it practical. First, it would take a lot of effort to double the number of skins on the norn, human, and sylvari models. Second, it wouldn't be fair for the Asura and Charr models, which aren't different between the sexes. These two races would only get half the skins of the other ones. Third, all of this effort will produce absolutely nothing. There would be no further income for GW2 garnered by this addition. All of the players who are happy with the differences in armors (I.E. most of them) won't change their sets or buy gems. All of the players who aren't happy but are still here have already chosen their "practical options" and won't do much to tweak their sets, let alone buy gems. All of the players who don't play GW2... probably aren't going to come and play the game just because of some armor parity decision.

I've seen this issue play out in Runescape. In its early days, there was very little differences between men and women in the game, especially in plate mail. There were a lot of complaints about this. Turns out, most players make a woman character because they want to play a woman character, and not a smaller man with a higher pitch voice. We want to see the feminine figure, both in shape and in motion. This is the fourth point: only a select few people actually demand the removal of dimorphic armor, or full parity of armor between the sexes. Everyone else is not only content with women and men looking different, but are glad that they do. It takes an outside, motivated ideology to make such demands of the game.

Do not presume to know my motives nor what everyone finds attractive in men and women. Thank you.

I have no “ideology” I am trying to push and I am all for having the option of traditionally masculine and feminine options as we have now; I just don’t see why they all have to be different — there are many styles that would look equally good on both sexes. Simple as that.

[Thornwolf.9721]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Thornwolf.9721" said:I just want my kilts and fur/bone/hide armor. LET ME BE CONAN THE BARBARIAN ON MY MALE NORN kitten IT ALL!Tribal armor is quite literally fur, bone and... well not hide, but feathers. And a huge honking skirt.

But granted, you'd have to be an elementalist barbarian or something.

And if Mako would have been Conan running around halfnaked tossing fireball and punching camels in the kneecaps I think we can all agree the movie would have been 10x better.

I mean granted but It still looks like crap; Its not what I'd call real "Fur,bone and hide" Its more like a placeebo to fill the void. And I play Revenant pretty much exclusively now so no the cosmetics in this game sucks (Especially for a male norn, in heavy armor.) The only customization norn has are the tattoo's otherwise they look like humans so I mean more options to be more revealing would be nice, at least for the males.

• https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/014/955/410/large/erik-ly-highlander-for-honor-final-eriklyart.jpg?1546463507
• https://cdn.blizzardwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/bulkathosagain-header-mr051215.jpg
• https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/006/923/501/large/hyun-lee-basic-small.jpg?1502287979
• https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/006/923/502/large/hyun-lee-beast-master-small.jpg?1502287983
• https://i.pinimg.com/originals/35/d9/41/35d9410c38a93783a14ce8eed7a6075c.jpg
• https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fc/b9/c0/fcb9c0a921fe48a8297bfd7942d3aa3a.jpg
• https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d9/d7/eb/d9d7ebc6666f8d256b19853d1bd00fc8.jpg
• https://i.pinimg.com/564x/2b/60/eb/2b60eb837bb3faa2cfff39c3554f54cd.jpg
• https://www.diabloii.net/gallery/data/558/medium/andre-yamaguchi-druida.jpg
• https://www.diabloii.net/gallery/data/558/medium/andre-yamaguchi-0a.jpg
• https://www.diabloii.net/gallery/data/558/medium/andre-yamaguchi-57a.jpg
• https://www.diabloii.net/gallery/data/558/medium/andre-yamaguchi-158a.jpg

Hence why I want a norn themed expansion with a racial overhaul for the norn with cool themed armor; I find almost 99% of the games armor ugly as sin and fits into two categories. "Weeb and Basic" It's either covered with anime like stylizing or its so basic or common in tropes that its not even remotely worth investing into getting, like the Requiem armor. Id of gotten it if it was not ugly as all hell; And the new sets are cool depending on what you're playing (Messmer could make it work.) But most of it does not fit the theme of my character/characters. For the game being all about fashion wars this games cosmetics look awfully similar to one another, and infusions are of not interest to me so I legit can't be bothered to care. Yet people always complain about how the game is too "Sexualized" or its too "fantasy" When in reality its not, not really because it hasn't even given us anything outside of "More of the same".

~ I promise that these complaints will only hinder or prevent us getting the type of armor I like; Because like everything else I seem to like the community as a whole seems to utterly despise and actively try to work against having added.

[YoukiNeko.6047]

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Charr_female_heavy_armor looks fine to me.

[b k.1648]

Human character problems again. Ah well.

[Liewec.2896]

i want more armours in general, you folks should be able to get your characters completely invisible under 2 ft of armour,and i want to finally get a chainmail bikini armour set!so many summers come and go and we still don't have bikini armour!

[Dragon Priestess.9760]

@MrPhantasia.5924 said:

@Weindrasi.3805 said:To those who argue that because it's a world full of magic, we should have even more revealing armor: I offer this counterargument:I'm a female who deals with imagery of sexualized women in real life every day, in every place. From burger advertising to cars and so on, sex sells. And near-naked female bodies that have been photo-altered to impossible perfection sell best.As a woman, that is SO discouraging.When I go into a fantasy world full of magic, I want to escape the things that hurt me in real life. Other people can play whatever they choose--because escape and fantasy are different for everyone. And if other people choose revealing armor, that is fine with me.But I wish there were more female body and clothing options for MY escape--that is, options that are totally NON-sexual in every way. Options that let me forget the pressures of being a woman in real life--and instead be a bad-kitten hero for a while.Charr females are great, and I play them almost exclusively to get my escape. But I wish I could have a human female whose body shape and armor design are similar--where sexuality is not the point. I want a human female who looks like a normal woman like me, not an airbrushed model with poreless skin and anime body.

Don't you understand how empowering it is to be a boob ninja? /s

I am a female who doesn't see any of this at all and vastly prefers sexualized armour because it's nicer to look at. I don't see discrimination or objectification, I see the appreciation of the beautiful shape of a woman's body. Please, please stop acting like all women think the same. I'm not like you, and I don't want to be like you.

Stop using the 'as a woman' argument. Stop trying to speak for me. Stop trying to infantilize me and act like I can't make my own decisions and have my own preferences. Stop trying to use my sex as a poster-board for your personal preferences. Stop trying to pretend all women share the same opinion. Stop staying that because I'm a woman, I have to be offended by ads, movies, posters and pixels.

If you don't like this game, there are other games to play. You already HAVE practical, fully covering armour for females in this game.

I'm trying not to get into ad-hominims here, but it really does sound like you guys want to get rid of choice altogether and make the game ideal to only you.

Anet's official stance is that they want to provide options for everybody, even people like me who want revealing options. They are not going to change that stance.

So either deal with it, or find another game to play.

This is such a petty nitpicking argument.

I play GW2 to escape real life and find fantasy. Pretty bikini armours and miniskirts ARE my fantasy. You might not like it, but it's my choice and you will not take that away from me.

[Diak Atoli.2085]

@Heibi.4251 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@MrPhantasia.5924 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Again .. you have choices if you want either approach, so the complain is not really sensible. It's not like there is only a dozen armor sets in this game. To think THIS game is somehow exceptional as far as these armor designs go ... I don't think that's accurate. Yes, there are skins that show skin ... if you don't like them don't use them. This isn't a question of if there are armor skins that offend you. It's a question of choice ... and you have it. I honestly don't understand what the OP is complaining about .. he posted some example of 'good' armor looks ... many of those looks can be built from many of the choices easily available to all players; the core armor sets in the game are actually VERY tame.

There are literally 3 heavy armor chest pieces that both are not revealing or have hideous looking boobplates to make sure you know oh boy there are definitely boobs here.

Hunnan T3 cultural, counsel guard, and legendary. Thats it. Three choices out of close to 70 skins. So much choice. And none of it keeps up the pretense of stuff like the Elonian elementalist outfit of at least being similarly revealing for bith genders.

No, there are way more than that. You're being sensational.

You are correct. There are many many more sets that aren't "boobplates". Getting tired of that term actually. You know, if you really don't want anything resembling a boobplate play asurans, charr, or male characters. That solves the issue. However, that won't satisfy the OP it seems, or some of the posters here.

Now, when I choose the skin I want I look for aesthetically pleasing, whether it be revealing or not. I loath the boxy looking armor skins. I want mine to be cool looking not utilitarian. This is a fantasy game not real life.

It really funny when one stops to consider that the 'boobplate' would actually be historically accurate... If plate armor had ever been made with a female wearer in mind...

[Heibi.4251]

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:

@Heibi.4251 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@MrPhantasia.5924 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Again .. you have choices if you want either approach, so the complain is not really sensible. It's not like there is only a dozen armor sets in this game. To think THIS game is somehow exceptional as far as these armor designs go ... I don't think that's accurate. Yes, there are skins that show skin ... if you don't like them don't use them. This isn't a question of if there are armor skins that offend you. It's a question of choice ... and you have it. I honestly don't understand what the OP is complaining about .. he posted some example of 'good' armor looks ... many of those looks can be built from many of the choices easily available to all players; the core armor sets in the game are actually VERY tame.

There are literally 3 heavy armor chest pieces that both are not revealing or have hideous looking boobplates to make sure you know oh boy there are definitely boobs here.

Hunnan T3 cultural, counsel guard, and legendary. Thats it. Three choices out of close to 70 skins. So much choice. And none of it keeps up the pretense of stuff like the Elonian elementalist outfit of at least being similarly revealing for bith genders.

No, there are way more than that. You're being sensational.

You are correct. There are many many more sets that aren't "boobplates". Getting tired of that term actually. You know, if you really don't want anything resembling a boobplate play asurans, charr, or male characters. That solves the issue. However, that won't satisfy the OP it seems, or some of the posters here.

Now, when I choose the skin I want I look for aesthetically pleasing, whether it be revealing or not. I loath the boxy looking armor skins. I want mine to be cool looking not utilitarian. This is a fantasy game not real life.

It really funny when one stops to consider that the 'boobplate' would actually be historically accurate... If plate armor had ever been made with a female wearer in mind...

I'm trying to remember an article or video that discussed that very concept. In the video/article it was "proven" to be a bad idea. Something about the weakness of the the design due to the protruding round parts. I'm actually serious here, even though this sounds ridiculous. I'll have to see if I can find that.