Encourage Fight Guilds over PPT

[cobbah.3102]

@Chasind.3128 said:

@enkidu.5937 said:

@Chasind.3128 said:WvW is just PvE- please encourage more fights vs guildsYou seem confused. If you dont like the game mode, go EOTM and do your GvG, thx.

I'm sure we would! if there were actual organized fights; so since you seem to miss the point of this thread- I'm not asking for an overall change, just an encouragement to make wvw more pvp over pve/ppt -- make actual guild fights a priority, not trying to take pve away from casuals

Fight guilds only exist in the minds of the guild members.

[Sovereign.1093]

may not really work since most players i've seen if wiped lose moral. i.e. the thread i made that was recently closed by the forum mod. :/ imagine if you're a base necro and this deadeye rangers follows you always all day every wvw when you play and kills you. always. now imagine that situation to a blob vs blob. it could work for a few who's goal is for fights. but for the rest, wvw will lose players.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

Sure, but they must change outnumbered buff then:

• Killing someone with the outnumbered buff does not award any ppk
• A person with the outnumbered buff gets say 50x the ppk

There are no real fight guilds though, all just run if they don't have the numbers or lose anymore than 3 fights in a row.

[MalinBlume.9314]

players working towards new metas and finding ways to fight each other... how the game "Guild Wars 2" should be played and any fun game.

Capping towers, castles, keeps, camps is all part of the game i guess though. Even though WvW is not PVE, it is also not completely PVP-I think the mods strived to put together PVP and PVE all in one within this game mode.

What it just lacks is a balanced incentive of both...Players like to grind capping objectives cause' it's safer to level up.Rather than PPK where you could get run over and be wasting your times, or be the one that runs over and farms the enemy.

Anet should implement a participation system on the groups that do decide to fight, though. There is too much players wanting to cap keeps and etc. and the PVE/PVP balance is shifted over to the PVE side.

Of course, the groups that are better should get better rewards (the winners take more and the losers take less). But it shouldn't mean the losers get nothing. They should get rewards equivalent to at least that of doing PVE

like the reason why i play this game over FFXIV is because this game has a game-mode which actually lets you think of how you play and counter your enemy instead of waiting for global CDs and counting on a dead PVP mode. This game also has very little pay to win, like the difference b/w ascended and exotic is literally less than 0.1%.

PPK and PPT are both important to the game mode, but i think the balance of incentives needs to be there. People just want PPT over PPK right now, I hope this changes to balance both.

[enkidu.5937]

@Chasind.3128 said:I'm just saying make ppk higher than ppt- keep ppt where it is. There is nothing wrong with guilds wanting ppt- thats why black gate is where they are, they hide in towers and over siege them.

Maybe BG hides because they dont want to give you precious PPK for free? Higher points per kill could lead to more fight picking / more hiding / more siege wars / even fewer fights. I cant see, how increasing PPK would promote fighting. It would only promote the desire to win fights, and thus to fight only fights that one would expect to win.

@Chasind.3128 said:there is no incentive to ppkMost fights take place at prime time, where PPT is usually even, because every server usually has coverage then. Consequently, better quality usually decides, by PPK and by e. g. taking / holding SMC.

During off-hours, where fights are rare, I guess, one would have to dramatically increase PPK by a magnitude to make it matter. And even then I doubt that it would drive ppl to WvW and battle, during that off-hours.

@Chasind.3128 said:The last time I was in eotm, i was constantly looking for fights and found noneSo maybe contact some guilds from the current match-up and make an appointment?

[Nitrosiili.5628]

@"DeadlySynz.3471" said:Sure, but they must change outnumbered buff then:

• Killing someone with the outnumbered buff does not award any ppk

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Outnumbered

Outnumbered already says "Being killed by the enemy team will not grant War Score."

[aspirine.6852]

Eotm is much better for gvg fights...... you can fight more guilds there and there is also not a que problem. Go go.

[Xanadrine.4352]

Why not take eotm and make it into 3 smaller battlegrounds. Let people queue up a team of 10 or 20 and first team to take the keep wins. First team to make the other team lose all its bases wins, first team with highest kill stats wins. Im just tossing this out there because im sick of the blob and zergs i would like a smaller scale fight. And i think it would be a nice change, oh and another thing this would not be a place for dailies. It would be team vs team only for rank and reward.

[mindcircus.1506]

I will never understand the need for the WvW community to gatekeep against half of it's own dwindling population.

[knite.1542]

@mindcircus.1506 said:I will never understand the need for the WvW community to gatekeep against half of it's own dwindling population.

It might seem like it's dwindling, but we are actually just getting ready for alliances!! I can't wait!

[Voltekka.2375]

@melandru.3876 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@melandru.3876 said:ppt is popular for the wvw rank grind

easy solution: make new wvw exp consumables that only drop from other playersmake those wvx consumables drop 100% (meaning you allwways get atleast one, if you are entitles to the enemy loot : tagging)

4 tiers

t0 basic 1 wvw exp per kill 100% drop chancet1 fine 3 wvw exp per kill 50% drop chancet2 masterwork 6 wvw exp per kill 25% drop chancet3 rare 10 wvw exp per kill 10% drop chance

1 enemy can only drop 1 consumable per player. the highest drop applies

now imagine 50 vs 50 fights, kills here and there that would be a steady amount of "extra" wvw exp on top of what you allready gain from defeating players.

more fightin, less door smashin

And what, exactly, will stop servers from abusing this feature and keep killtrading till they reach 10k in a very, very short time?We know the answer, it had happened in OS where people got UD title with the same method.

game moderators, might be an option.you said yourself: abuse.

what do we do with abusers? we punnish them

That is no answer, you cannot punish people who play the game this way. They will simply say "well, we sucked the last 10 fights, we died, why do you ban us?". Did they punish the UD title abusers? Nope. Plus people will bandwagon to "fight" servers.

implying people allready don't

blackgate on NAvabbi/ros/wsr on EU

So... Since people already do it, and it is obviously wrong, we should somehow encourage it further?

how do you plan on fitting more people on a server that is allready full tho?

ah, you can't

Hint: people bandwagon to linked servers! Which change every 2 months, so you can "fight" away!

[mindcircus.1506]

@knite.1542 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:I will never understand the need for the WvW community to gatekeep against half of it's own dwindling population.

It might seem like it's dwindling, but we are actually just getting ready for alliances!! I can't wait!

But you will have to.

[Kaiser.9873]

The only real way to increase the willingness of people to fight, who are generally unwilling to fight, is to increase the rewards for fighting.

Make the loot bags worth more, and I could bet you will see more people out fighting. Problem is will people killtrade? Likely you would get some number of players that will meet somewhere and killtrade, but that would be a small number. Most players don't fight for PPK. It's ancillary to the game at this point. Winning has no meaning so why count PPK? Players fight for the challenge. Some choose duels, some small scale roaming, and others enjoy larger scale. Increasing the worth of loot bags would go a long way to closing the earnings gap between PvE and WvW, as well as giving leery players incentive to exit structures.

[Decado.9304]

Increase the warscore from PPK by a big factor, decrease the PPT warsecore gain by a big factor and Increase the rewards from player kills.

Might do fuckall but with the shite state of WvW these days, could it make it any worse?

[Dawdler.8521]

@Kaiser.9873 said:The only real way to increase the willingness of people to fight, who are generally unwilling to fight, is to increase the rewards for fighting.

Make the loot bags worth more, and I could bet you will see more people out fighting. Problem is will people killtrade? Likely you would get some number of players that will meet somewhere and killtrade, but that would be a small number. Most players don't fight for PPK. It's ancillary to the game at this point. Winning has no meaning so why count PPK? Players fight for the challenge. Some choose duels, some small scale roaming, and others enjoy larger scale. Increasing the worth of loot bags would go a long way to closing the earnings gap between PvE and WvW, as well as giving leery players incentive to exit structures.Too bad that rewards is a sure way to reduce the fights.

If I knew that in a 1v1 I can win and get 1 gold, or loose and give 1 gold to the enemy, I would either:A ) Not fight so I can laugh at the enemy not having a chance at getting 1 goldorB ) Bring 4 friends so we can 5v1 him for a certain win and get 5 gold (wopwoptheloot!)

Without any particular loot involved I'd happily fight whatever is in front and not care if I lost.

[TheGrimm.5624]

Pure PPK would lead to just zerging. We need both. PPT forces zergs to either lose the week or to have to break into smaller groups so that we get more diverse fights because a map zerg can't be everywhere. Sadly I think we need a further hinderance to zerg play and one of those might be to increase PPK to help increase the number of fights. The other point of PPT is to create a point of contention to trigger the fight, so we would still need it for that as well.

The problem with increasing player kill rewards is again it favors the zerg and would discourage people from fighting a larger with smaller force and of course bandwagoning. So to increase we might also need some way for it to be diminishing returns. 50 running over 5 shouldn't be extra rewarded, more could see the 5 making much more if they were able to drop any targets but the 50 wouldn't be paid anymore.

Still on the side right now that PPK and PPT are in pretty good balance overall right now, but there isn't much incentive for a smaller group to just die to a zerg unless they have some additional tools or encouragement. We have seen people will take one for the team if they think they can gain something for it, take the no downstate weeks as an example of that.

[nthmetal.9652]

@"Sovereign.1093" said:may not really work since most players i've seen if wiped lose moral. i.e. the thread i made that was recently closed by the forum mod. :/ imagine if you're a base necro and this deadeye rangers follows you always all day every wvw when you play and kills you. always. now imagine that situation to a blob vs blob. it could work for a few who's goal is for fights. but for the rest, wvw will lose players.

Yet another reason, why WvW needs a "handicap" system to counter imbalances. Either through empowerment of the constantly loosing side, or through better rewards. You have to keep people engaged. Constantly getting your nose bloodied and - worst case - getting nothing out of it, not even participation, is not going to work. Even only turning participation into something that truly mirrors participation is not enough IMO.WvW needs subsystems to counter imbalances in order to keep players engaged.

[Kaiser.9873]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Kaiser.9873 said:The only real way to increase the willingness of people to fight, who are generally unwilling to fight, is to increase the rewards for fighting.

Make the loot bags worth more, and I could bet you will see more people out fighting. Problem is will people killtrade? Likely you would get some number of players that will meet somewhere and killtrade, but that would be a small number. Most players don't fight for PPK. It's ancillary to the game at this point. Winning has no meaning so why count PPK? Players fight for the challenge. Some choose duels, some small scale roaming, and others enjoy larger scale. Increasing the worth of loot bags would go a long way to closing the earnings gap between PvE and WvW, as well as giving leery players incentive to exit structures.Too bad that rewards is a sure way to

reduce

the fights.

If I knew that in a 1v1 I can win and get 1 gold, or loose and give 1 gold to the enemy, I would either:A ) Not fight so I can laugh at the enemy not having a chance at getting 1 goldorB ) Bring 4 friends so we can 5v1 him for a certain win and get 5 gold (wopwoptheloot!)

Without any particular loot involved I'd happily fight whatever is in front and not care if I lost.

Where in my response did I mention losing any gold/silver/mats when I lost?My assertion is that if heavy loot bags gave more loot when they dropped that players would have more incentive to fight.Do you lose anything when killed now? No. Gold? I didn't say anything about loot bags giving out a gold per kill.Don't try to strawman me here.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Kaiser.9873 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Kaiser.9873 said:The only real way to increase the willingness of people to fight, who are generally unwilling to fight, is to increase the rewards for fighting.

Make the loot bags worth more, and I could bet you will see more people out fighting. Problem is will people killtrade? Likely you would get some number of players that will meet somewhere and killtrade, but that would be a small number. Most players don't fight for PPK. It's ancillary to the game at this point. Winning has no meaning so why count PPK? Players fight for the challenge. Some choose duels, some small scale roaming, and others enjoy larger scale. Increasing the worth of loot bags would go a long way to closing the earnings gap between PvE and WvW, as well as giving leery players incentive to exit structures.Too bad that rewards is a sure way to

reduce

the fights.

If I knew that in a 1v1 I can win and get 1 gold, or loose and give 1 gold to the enemy, I would either:A ) Not fight so I can laugh at the enemy not having a chance at getting 1 goldorB ) Bring 4 friends so we can 5v1 him for a certain win and get 5 gold (wopwoptheloot!)

Without any particular loot involved I'd happily fight whatever is in front and not care if I lost.

Where in my response did I mention losing any gold/silver/mats when I lost?My assertion is that if heavy loot bags gave more loot when they dropped that players would have more incentive to fight.Do you lose anything when killed now? No. Gold? I didn't say anything about loot bags giving out a gold per kill.Don't try to strawman me here.Lol you do realize that there are two sides to combat right? If I loose, that means the enemy won. Thus he gets the loot and I dont, which is me handing loot to him. Not from my own inventory

obviously

. The gold was for comparison. All rewards is gold one way or another. I'm not the one doing the strawman here.

[melandru.3876]

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@melandru.3876 said:ppt is popular for the wvw rank grind

easy solution: make new wvw exp consumables that only drop from other playersmake those wvx consumables drop 100% (meaning you allwways get atleast one, if you are entitles to the enemy loot : tagging)

4 tiers

t0 basic 1 wvw exp per kill 100% drop chancet1 fine 3 wvw exp per kill 50% drop chancet2 masterwork 6 wvw exp per kill 25% drop chancet3 rare 10 wvw exp per kill 10% drop chance

1 enemy can only drop 1 consumable per player. the highest drop applies

now imagine 50 vs 50 fights, kills here and there that would be a steady amount of "extra" wvw exp on top of what you allready gain from defeating players.

more fightin, less door smashin

And what, exactly, will stop servers from abusing this feature and keep killtrading till they reach 10k in a very, very short time?We know the answer, it had happened in OS where people got UD title with the same method.

game moderators, might be an option.you said yourself: abuse.

what do we do with abusers? we punnish them

That is no answer, you cannot punish people who play the game this way. They will simply say "well, we sucked the last 10 fights, we died, why do you ban us?". Did they punish the UD title abusers? Nope. Plus people will bandwagon to "fight" servers.

implying people allready don't

blackgate on NAvabbi/ros/wsr on EU

So... Since people already do it, and it is obviously wrong, we should somehow encourage it further?

how do you plan on fitting more people on a server that is allready full tho?

ah, you can't

Hint: people bandwagon to linked servers! Which change every 2 months, so you can "fight" away!

so to afk on stacked servers waiting till the 98 persons in front of you give up, so you can finaly join a border?been there, was super fun and i got incredible amount of wvw exp

[Voltekka.2375]

@"Kaiser.9873" said:The only real way to increase the willingness of people to fight, who are generally unwilling to fight, is to increase the rewards for fighting.

Make the loot bags worth more, and I could bet you will see more people out fighting. Problem is will people killtrade? Likely you would get some number of players that will meet somewhere and killtrade, but that would be a small number. Most players don't fight for PPK. It's ancillary to the game at this point. Winning has no meaning so why count PPK? Players fight for the challenge. Some choose duels, some small scale roaming, and others enjoy larger scale. Increasing the worth of loot bags would go a long way to closing the earnings gap between PvE and WvW, as well as giving leery players incentive to exit structures.

"a small number" would killtrade? May i remind you that people killtraded a LOT in OS and got UD title fast? May i remind you that eotm basically NEVER saw any fights cause people karmatrained till they dropped? You grossly underestimate what people can exploit

Edit : https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Obsidian_Sanctum_Farm

[Voltekka.2375]

@melandru.3876 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@melandru.3876 said:ppt is popular for the wvw rank grind

easy solution: make new wvw exp consumables that only drop from other playersmake those wvx consumables drop 100% (meaning you allwways get atleast one, if you are entitles to the enemy loot : tagging)

4 tiers

t0 basic 1 wvw exp per kill 100% drop chancet1 fine 3 wvw exp per kill 50% drop chancet2 masterwork 6 wvw exp per kill 25% drop chancet3 rare 10 wvw exp per kill 10% drop chance

1 enemy can only drop 1 consumable per player. the highest drop applies

now imagine 50 vs 50 fights, kills here and there that would be a steady amount of "extra" wvw exp on top of what you allready gain from defeating players.

more fightin, less door smashin

And what, exactly, will stop servers from abusing this feature and keep killtrading till they reach 10k in a very, very short time?We know the answer, it had happened in OS where people got UD title with the same method.

game moderators, might be an option.you said yourself: abuse.

what do we do with abusers? we punnish them

That is no answer, you cannot punish people who play the game this way. They will simply say "well, we sucked the last 10 fights, we died, why do you ban us?". Did they punish the UD title abusers? Nope. Plus people will bandwagon to "fight" servers.

implying people allready don't

blackgate on NAvabbi/ros/wsr on EU

So... Since people already do it, and it is obviously wrong, we should somehow encourage it further?

how do you plan on fitting more people on a server that is allready full tho?

ah, you can't

Hint: people bandwagon to linked servers! Which change every 2 months, so you can "fight" away!

so to afk on stacked servers waiting till the 98 persons in front of you give up, so you can finaly join a border?been there, was super fun and i got incredible amount of wvw exp

Its "flavor of the month" server! Best thing!

[joneirikb.7506]

Seriously, the only way I can imagine making people WANT to fight in this game, is give them loot on dying. Basically give them WxP, Participation, and a heavy lootbag on dying as well as winning. Then people would quickly calculate and find that this was probably the best way to FARM in the game, and you'd have a map dedicated "EternalLemmingsGrounds" and just watch 3 huge zergs flood out of the nearest waypoints, to crash into each others naked, to die over and over.

(See OS UD farm)

Because lets face it, there aren't enough players left in the game that is motivated by something else than loot.

[enkidu.5937]

@"joneirikb.7506" said:and you'd have a map dedicated "EternalLemmingsGrounds" and just watch 3 huge zergs flood out of the nearest waypoints, to crash into each others naked, to die over and over.Since this is WvW as it already is these days, you'd only have to add the loot ^^ should work

[spectrito.8513]

@"joneirikb.7506" said:Seriously, the only way I can imagine making people WANT to fight in this game, is give them loot on dying. Basically give them WxP, Participation, and a heavy lootbag on dying as well as winning. Then people would quickly calculate and find that this was probably the best way to FARM in the game, and you'd have a map dedicated "EternalLemmingsGrounds" and just watch 3 huge zergs flood out of the nearest waypoints, to crash into each others naked, to die over and over.

(See OS UD farm)

Because lets face it, there aren't enough players left in the game that is motivated by something else than loot.

Well, i had a lot of fun solo roaming before Warclaw, mostly outside ebg to avoid zergs, there was plenty of people willing to fight even outside NA prime times, i could play all day without getting bored.Now its just a PvE grindfest.