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[Crab Fear.1624]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:I get that mirage is S tier.

Is core necro really better than scourge?So do we have guard, thief and necro as playable cores?Soon enough core memser will be the only way to play the mesmer... soon

TM

I think @"dDuff.3860" is more accurate. Tho he put core s/d in S tier and explained why or s/d thief loses to cmirage?Can we get "Complete garbage" tier for memes?

All hail the core mesmer! ?

I am a firm believer in the strength of core mesmer. Probably the ultimate form at this point. But I am a noob so whatevs.

[sephiroth.4217]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:I get that mirage is S tier.

Is core necro really better than scourge?So do we have guard, thief and necro as playable cores?Soon enough core memser will be the only way to play the mesmer... soon

TM

I think @"dDuff.3860" is more accurate. Tho he put core s/d in S tier and explained why or s/d thief loses to cmirage?Can we get "Complete garbage" tier for memes?

All hail the core mesmer! ?

I am a firm believer in the strength of core mesmer. Probably the ultimate form at this point. But I am a noob so whatevs.

Oddly I made a build just to counter CI mirages and it evolved into something somewhat ok... still tinkering.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

AT meta is different from ranked meta since people in tournaments actually know how to play as a team.

[mrauls.6519]

DH is B?!?!?!?!?!? HYPE?!??!?!?!

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

soulbeast is in C Tier big lol.

[witcher.3197]

@"JayAction.9056" said:

2. Rev was never S tier. It was B+ tier and myself (I still say my build is most superior in NA) and a few others made it seem S tide by just straight outplaying people.

Rather rev was S tier and NA players convinced themselves that it was B+ tier so they could call it "outplaying" when they pressed sword 4.

[Tekneeq.4302]

@Locuz.2651 said:

@Flandre.2870 said:DH back in the meta since it counters both thieves and mirages which spread like a plague this patch.

Wait what? DH counters mirage?

/confused

I think the direct opposite is true.

i agree with you,, i have like 1200 hours played,, and all hours are on 1 toon my gaurd,, and i can tell u dh is better at targeting 1 person.. setting traps and pulling said 1 person.. any clone is going to counter dh to the fullest

[dominik.9721]

DH is freewin against mirage, if you are even a DH main you must doing sth wrong if you lose.

@Tekneeq.4302 said:

@Locuz.2651 said:

@Flandre.2870 said:DH back in the meta since it counters both thieves and mirages which spread like a plague this patch.

Wait what? DH counters mirage?

/confused

I think the direct opposite is true.

i agree with you,, i have like 1200 hours played,, and all hours are on 1 toon my gaurd,, and i can tell u dh is better at targeting 1 person.. setting traps and pulling said 1 person.. any clone is going to counter dh to the fullest

[Tekneeq.4302]

if anything sets off ur traps there goes a lot of ur dmg

[Tekneeq.4302]

past 2 days a mesmer will pop out out nowhere and 1 shot me even with pala amulet on

[Tekneeq.4302]

im only gold 2 btw.. but i play firebrand supp now anyways

[witcher.3197]

@Tekneeq.4302 said:if anything sets off ur traps there goes a lot of ur dmg

You're not supposed to go full trap memes like some silver 2 hero.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@Locuz.2651 said:

@Flandre.2870 said:DH back in the meta since it counters both thieves and mirages which spread like a plague this patch.

Wait what? DH counters mirage?

/confused

I think the direct opposite is true.

What makes you think that's the case? Bad DH players?

[Tekneeq.4302]

@witcher.3197 said:

@Tekneeq.4302 said:if anything sets off ur traps there goes a lot of ur dmg

You're not supposed to go full trap memes like some silver 2 hero.

i use one or two traps at the most.. i guess all of u are mesmer mains

[Buran.3796]

@"HeadCrowned.6834" said:Not sure how much this is related to the patch tho. A modest dmg nerf on rev sword cant put the class from S to C all of a sudden. And core nec aint better than scourge in an AT.

Current power Herald is nothing like what the class had when was released in HoT. Over the last year lost more than half of might generation, half of might duration, most of its sources of vulnerability and most of the associated procs. Even worse, Shiro's Impossible Odds, which in the past provided both quickness (for increased attack speed and reduced time cast) and superspeed (for increased mobility) no longer provides any of those. In fact, Shiro is now slow like a slug, and the "legenday assassin" needs a Herald trait (see: not a Devastation trait, but one from a different legend) to get a botched version of swiftness. And that's for the Herald spec, core Rev is just hopeless and Renegade was the worst PvP specialization ever released since PoF, even worse than any core class and has been that way since its inception. So why whould Rev aven appear in that tier list? Hits softer than ever, is suddenly slow and has the same weakness vs conditions which always carried. Sword's nerfs are largely irrelevant: Shiro is now garbage, and the class only had a single functional PvP build in 3.7 years, so killed Shiro, Revenant is dead.

[Locuz.2651]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:What makes you think that's the case? Bad DH players?

The DH won't have enough defenses to stop the condi burst, while the mirage has counters for all DH dmg setups.

If the mirage plays the long game and isn't forced to sit on top of the DH I see no way for the DH to win. I'm only low plat now and didn't see any DH that was even close to a challenge. Maybe the better DH players will start popping up if I get closer to the top 100?

[Cyric.7813]

Anyway ranger will get another nerf next patch as always)

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Buran.3796 said:

@"HeadCrowned.6834" said:Not sure how much this is related to the patch tho. A modest dmg nerf on rev sword cant put the class from S to C all of a sudden. And core nec aint better than scourge in an AT.

Current power Herald is nothing like what the class had when was released in HoT. Over the last year lost more than half of might generation, half of might duration, most of its sources of vulnerability and most of the associated procs. Even worse, Shiro's Impossible Odds, which in the past provided both quickness (for increased attack speed and reduced time cast) and superspeed (for increased mobility) no longer provides any of those. In fact, Shiro is now slow like a slug, and the "legenday assassin" needs a Herald trait (see: not a Devastation trait, but one from a different legend) to get a botched version of swiftness. And that's for the Herald spec, core Rev is just hopeless and Renegade was the worst PvP specialization ever released since PoF, even worse than any core class and has been that way since its inception. So why whould Rev aven appear in that tier list? Hits softer than ever, is suddenly slow and has the same weakness vs conditions which always carried. Sword's nerfs are largely irrelevant: Shiro is now garbage, and the class only had a single functional PvP build in 3.7 years, so killed Shiro, Revenant is dead.

@Buran.3796 said:

@"HeadCrowned.6834" said:Not sure how much this is related to the patch tho. A modest dmg nerf on rev sword cant put the class from S to C all of a sudden. And core nec aint better than scourge in an AT.

Current power Herald is nothing like what the class had when was released in HoT. Over the last year lost more than half of might generation, half of might duration, most of its sources of vulnerability and most of the associated procs. Even worse, Shiro's Impossible Odds, which in the past provided both quickness (for increased attack speed and reduced time cast) and superspeed (for increased mobility) no longer provides any of those. In fact, Shiro is now slow like a slug, and the "legenday assassin" needs a Herald trait (see: not a Devastation trait, but one from a different legend) to get a botched version of swiftness. And that's for the Herald spec, core Rev is just hopeless and Renegade was the worst PvP specialization ever released since PoF, even worse than any core class and has been that way since its inception. So why whould Rev aven appear in that tier list? Hits softer than ever, is suddenly slow and has the same weakness vs conditions which always carried. Sword's nerfs are largely irrelevant: Shiro is now garbage, and the class only had a single functional PvP build in 3.7 years, so killed Shiro, Revenant is dead.

See this is the problem with some people who main a class, "slow as a slug" "rev is dead" "rev hits softer than ever" ? What the hell? Sure it got nerfs but this is crazy over-exgateration biast at it's best.

[witcher.3197]

@Buran.3796 said:

@"HeadCrowned.6834" said:Not sure how much this is related to the patch tho. A modest dmg nerf on rev sword cant put the class from S to C all of a sudden. And core nec aint better than scourge in an AT.

Current power Herald is nothing like what the class had when was released in HoT. Over the last year lost more than half of might generation, half of might duration, most of its sources of vulnerability and most of the associated procs. Even worse, Shiro's Impossible Odds, which in the past provided both quickness (for increased attack speed and reduced time cast) and superspeed (for increased mobility) no longer provides any of those. In fact, Shiro is now slow like a slug, and the "legenday assassin" needs a Herald trait (see: not a Devastation trait, but one from a different legend) to get a botched version of swiftness. And that's for the Herald spec, core Rev is just hopeless and Renegade was the worst PvP specialization ever released since PoF, even worse than any core class and has been that way since its inception. So why whould Rev aven appear in that tier list? Hits softer than ever, is suddenly slow and has the same weakness vs conditions which always carried. Sword's nerfs are largely irrelevant: Shiro is now garbage, and the class only had a single functional PvP build in 3.7 years, so killed Shiro, Revenant is dead.

Stop lying so compulsively to yourself. If you think rev sucks, you need to get better. It's still strong as hell.

[Abelisk.5148]

Bunker weaver is literally amazing now

[Chiral.8915]

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:Bunker weaver is literally amazing now

The trade off of crippling carpal tunnel syndrome is a bit too much for some though.

[Duckota.4769]

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:I am still confused about Condi Thief being Meta, let alone S Tier nowPretty funny how this build rise from the dead, few buffs there and there and its alrdy here... Single dodge applies 4 different conditions, add to it immob from sword, super yikes that you cant dodge. I'm not surprised tbh, we will see how long this would lasts

The worst part is instead of toning down condi dmg which would make sense they will do some dumb stuff like nerf sword 2.

[witcher.3197]

@Duckota.4769 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:I am still confused about Condi Thief being Meta, let alone S Tier nowPretty funny how this build rise from the dead, few buffs there and there and its alrdy here... Single dodge applies 4 different conditions, add to it immob from sword, super yikes that you cant dodge. I'm not surprised tbh, we will see how long this would lasts

The worst part is instead of toning down condi dmg which would make sense they will do some dumb stuff like nerf sword 2.

Or buff cleansing / add more resistance until an entire damage type disappears from pvp

[Buran.3796]

@"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

See this is the problem with some people who main a class, "slow as a slug" "rev is dead" "rev hits softer than ever" ? What the hell? Sure it got nerfs but this is crazy over-exgateration biast at it's best.

How can I be wrong? The class resembles nothing what was at the HoT release. Revenant was supposed to rely on energy to use its skills (as happens with initiative for thieves); now, instead, has cooldowns on top energy cost for almost every skill. The shield was botched long time ago and don't has any use in any game department for 2+ years in a row. Axe is also unpopular, and none of the ranged weapons of the class enjoys any use in PvP. Off hand sword block on move was sacrified to buff the damage, but once was neutered in burst and casting speed what remains useless for condi builds and very predictable for power ones. Frankly the off hand sword was better BEFORE the changes, because albeit Rev was low tier after the PoF arrival, at least was faithful to the roots of the class. What do you do with a class unable to do support, to tank/hold points or to work as condition dps? You keep the damage and the mobility. Power Shiro is now like a pregnant walrus (but the walrus is a better bruiser). And don't talk me about "the problem with some people who main a class"; I mained Warrior and Guardian long before the HoT arrival, and those clasess always had a few functional builds with different degrees of viability. Rev never had an alternative build, and power Herald never was so straightforward, uninspiring, plain and rigid to play as in the current iteration. I can play support Firebrand, dps DH, core guardian bruiser and even meme (but fun) burn Guardian; Rev has 0 options, and now is slow.

[Vicariuz.1605]

@Locuz.2651 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:What makes you think that's the case? Bad DH players?

The DH won't have enough defenses to stop the condi burst, while the mirage has counters for all DH dmg setups.

If the mirage plays the long game and isn't forced to sit on top of the DH I see no way for the DH to win. I'm only low plat now and didn't see any DH that was even close to a challenge. Maybe the better DH players will start popping up if I get closer to the top 100?

no you are 100% correct, mirage should always be looking for a longer fight since shatters do no damage.