DEATHsCLAW.1978 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 it's goot that anet realises that there is something wrong with DM, still post rework it provides you with ramp up thoughness which depletes if you are stun-chained (since u cannot keep up those high stacks then) and no stability at all.. I dont see how any competent pvp builds would use that line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 @DEATHsCLAW.1978 said:it's goot that anet realises that there is something wrong with DM, still post rework it provides you with ramp up thoughness which depletes if you are stun-chained (since u cannot keep up those high stacks then) and no stability at all.. I dont see how any competent pvp builds would use that lineI’ll be honest here and say that the buff itself is mediocre. But anet seems to want to adopt a design philosophy which involves standardizing everything under similar metrics, and the only thing that all classes share are stats. So that’s why we see the exchange of might granting traits into “gain 120 power” traits. But the design of DM right now makes sense when you think about it from the perspective of stats. They saw how stats redistribution opened up builds when they added 600 ferocity. So now they are adding 600 toughness into the mix with deathmagicThat should be enough information to see why this is going to be a strong spvp spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEATHsCLAW.1978 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:@"DEATHsCLAW.1978" said:it's goot that anet realises that there is something wrong with DM, still post rework it provides you with ramp up thoughness which depletes if you are stun-chained (since u cannot keep up those high stacks then) and no stability at all.. I dont see how any competent pvp builds would use that lineI’ll be honest here and say that the buff itself is mediocre. But anet seems to want to adopt a design philosophy which involves standardizing everything under similar metrics, and the only thing that all classes share are stats. So that’s why we see the exchange of might granting traits into “gain 120 power” traits. But the design of DM right now makes sense when you think about it from the perspective of stats. They saw how stats redistribution opened up builds when they added 600 ferocity. So now they are adding 600 toughness into the mix with deathmagicThat should be enough information to see why this is going to be a strong spvp spec.I give you the "standartising" thing and that its goodbut anet is still not adressing the core problems of necromancer (no vigor, blocks, evades, poor mobility, long cast times,...) and as long as no traitline grants any of it it wont be chosen over an offensive one in spvp (exeption is maybe bloodmagic for ressing teammates)in my opinion just defensively the boon rip alone from Spite is worth more than that 600 thoughnessat least in a pvp environnment where enemies run around with might and stab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anchoku.8142 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 Necro was already getting a significant amount of toughness for taking DM and traiting a few things. The flat damage reductions and toughness were quite good. PvP builds using DM are not looking good right now and Necro's using DM in WvW will be much more vulnerable when not in combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:@DEATHsCLAW.1978 said:it's goot that anet realises that there is something wrong with DM, still post rework it provides you with ramp up thoughness which depletes if you are stun-chained (since u cannot keep up those high stacks then) and no stability at all.. I dont see how any competent pvp builds would use that lineI’ll be honest here and say that the buff itself is mediocre. But anet seems to want to adopt a design philosophy which involves standardizing everything under similar metrics, and the only thing that all classes share are stats. So that’s why we see the exchange of might granting traits into “gain 120 power” traits. But the design of DM right now makes sense when you think about it from the perspective of stats. They saw how stats redistribution opened up builds when they added 600 ferocity. So now they are adding 600 toughness into the mix with deathmagicDoes it though? Because for most professions it was not an increase of 600 it was considerably less but still an increase. These traits also trigger immediately and dont requires a build up of stacking an effect 30 times.That should be enough information to see why this is going to be a strong spvp spec.If this was Pre HoT or early HoT meta i would agree with you here but this is 2019 where burst meta is king.600 toughness will not mean a darn thing and that assumes you have maximum stacks which likely wont be easily sustainable not to mention the time needed to build it up. Burst meta attempts to hit you before you have time to make a build up. So will this be a strong spvp spec for necro, no probably not...Will people test it out of course. even assuming some one takes foot in the grave for most professions its not hard to push necro off a point with a single cc wich can be enough time to decap the point even if the necro is trying to bunker.Lets also not forget the common focus the necro first that has become a standard for spvp. will 600 toughness alone assuming max stacks be enough to save you probably not.... overall they took a line that was very sub par and its still sub par with a small potential of being slightly better assuming the caster can achieve high stack counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zex Anthon.8673 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 I ran the numbers. Assuming no investment in toughness from trinkets, weapons, or armor.The ceiling for the current death magic is -47.94% direct damage reduction, -20% condition damage reduction, and 182 power while maintaining 10 stacks of corruptor's fervor, protection, and 1 stack of poison on your foe.The ceiling for the new death magic is -48.92% direct damage reduction, -10% condition damage reduction, and 300 power while maintaining 30 stacks of death's carapace. This change translates to a slight damage buff from deadly strength, and better protection uptime, at the cost of reduced condition damage reduction and more stacks to maintain.Overall I would call this change a Nerf to death magic as you used to get a bigger effect (-10% damage reduction from putrid defense) with less investment. And you also get less condition damage reduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 Uhhh, guys? Each stack only lasts 10 seconds (aside from Flesh of the master). How the hell do they think we're ever going to hit 30 on anything resembling a regular basis? I don't even think it's possible if you're not using Corrupter's Fervor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Uhhh, guys? Each stack only lasts 10 seconds (aside from Flesh of the master). How the hell do they think we're ever going to hit 30 on anything resembling a regular basis? I don't even think it's possible if you're not using Corrupter's Fervor.How is that any different to how it works now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 @Sigmoid.7082 said:@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Uhhh, guys? Each stack only lasts 10 seconds (aside from Flesh of the master). How the hell do they think we're ever going to hit 30 on anything resembling a regular basis? I don't even think it's possible if you're not using Corrupter's Fervor.How is that any different to how it works now? Did I say it was? Death Magic is weak as hell now and they're nerfing it. The only thing that might be better is Death Nova, since it seems they're changing it to always deal the flat damage even on sacrifice minion active skills like Putrid Explosion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Uhhh, guys? Each stack only lasts 10 seconds (aside from Flesh of the master). How the hell do they think we're ever going to hit 30 on anything resembling a regular basis? I don't even think it's possible if you're not using Corrupter's Fervor.Well think about it. The GM trait proc on condi application, so one spin to win that hits 2 targets will get you 24 stacks alone...that’s ignoring every other trait. Then the shrouded removal will give you 3 per condition cleanse. If this counts external sources of condi cleanse we are talking perma uptime on this buff, from those two traits alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLOTH.5231 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 How about a +300 vitality buff with death magic to go along with all that toughness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josiah.2967 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 So my happy fun minion build was nerfed? Just when I thought this patch couldn't get better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exzen.2976 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 At first glance this feels like an overall nerf to an already underperforming trait line. It seems like it would only work well with a Condi build too, since Corrupter’s Fervor seems to be the only way to ensure regular stacks. I hope it performs better in practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kumouta.4985 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 i had a build that could do well with this in PvP, but outside of that this traitline still seems too bad to switch anything out for in PvE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vincent III.1286 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 "Death's Carapace stacks are applied for 10 seconds..."lolz. What the heck is that? This is already not going to work. Reiterate please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 This is underwhelming, regardless if it's good or not. It's pretty hard to get excited about effects that stack a passive damage mitigation stat. On that note, the amount and durations are poorly thought out ... Even at max stacks, you only get 600 toughness and it's on the order of 10 seconds. That's pretty MEH if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaVid Darksoul.4985 Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 Minions give 2 stacks of cardboard armor and no added defense of their own, so they die faster then you can summon them in WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XECOR.2814 Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Uhhh, guys? Each stack only lasts 10 seconds (aside from Flesh of the master). How the hell do they think we're ever going to hit 30 on anything resembling a regular basis? I don't even think it's possible if you're not using Corrupter's Fervor.Well think about it. The GM trait proc on condi application, so one spin to win that hits 2 targets will get you 24 stacks alone...that’s ignoring every other trait. Then the shrouded removal will give you 3 per condition cleanse. If this counts external sources of condi cleanse we are talking perma uptime on this buff, from those two traits aloneWhile you are fighting. But when you cant cast skills for kitten and getting hard focus you wont gain anything from the defense line lul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimon.7840 Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Uhhh, guys? Each stack only lasts 10 seconds (aside from Flesh of the master). How the hell do they think we're ever going to hit 30 on anything resembling a regular basis? I don't even think it's possible if you're not using Corrupter's Fervor.Well my guess would be that hitting multiple targets helps stacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimon.7840 Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 @Obtena.7952 said:This is underwhelming, regardless if it's good or not. It's pretty hard to get excited about effects that stack a passive damage mitigation stat. On that note, the amount and durations are poorly thought out ... Even at max stacks, you only get 600 toughness and it's on the order of 10 seconds. That's pretty MEH if you ask me. Who are you and what did you do to the obtena I know? Not defending anet choices :smiley: Just kidding. I'm also not that hyped about the changes. Some are good, but most of them feel like someone didn't really think about the changes or didn't test them.The core problem is, that I think they only test stuff in open world pve. Where basically anything works.I do have something in mind for solo roaming and maybe gonna test it in pvp as well, but yeah... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaylin.1860 Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 Sooo... will the traitline picture be jokofied?While I do like the stacking effect and feel that the new Corrupter's Fervor and Deadly Strength makes the line slightly more appealing to sturdy power Reaper builds, ANet missed the mark for me.Thoughness is still overemphasizedMinions are still overemphasizedUnholy Sanctury has no meaningful interaction with the traitline.When looking at playstyles, I don't see any changes. Why the effort? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 Death Magic: This trait line has been reworked. Many traits now revolve around a new effect called Death's Carapace that increases toughness by 20 for each stack up to a maximum of 30 stacks. Death's Carapace stacks are applied for 10 seconds from all traits except Flesh of the Master.Way to much raw stats, there is no real point in making something imbalanced for the sake of leading players to use it.Minor:Armored Shroud: This trait now gives 5 stacks of Death's Carapace when entering shroud.Strictly speaking it's not bad. A bit of a nerf but not bad.Soul Comprehension: In addition to its previous effects, this trait now also grants 1 stack of Death's Carapace for each kill the necromancer participates in.Like always, great in WvW, trash everywhere else.Beyond the Veil: This trait has been reworked. It now reduces condition damage by 10% while the necromancer has at least 10 stacks of Death's Carapace.Meh...Adept:Flesh of the Master: Instead of granting armor for each minion, this trait now causes the necromancer's minions to grant them 2 Death's Carapace stacks as long as the minions are alive.More passive minion gameplay...Putrid Defense: This trait has changed positions and its functionality has changed. It now causes poison to deal 15% more damage and grants 1 Death's Carapace stack when applying poison.I'm curious whether you'll gain 2 death carapace per poison stack with corruptor fervor... All in all, it's not really engaging but it follow the logic of the change...Shrouded Removal: This trait has changed positions. In addition to its previous effects, it now grants 3 Death's Carapace stacks when a condition is removed.Meh...Master:Necromantic Corruption: This trait is unchanged.Still in this stupid passive minion gameplay... so disappointing. Is it because there is no hope to ever have good minion active skills?Dark Defiance: This trait is unchanged.Thanks god.Deadly Strength: This trait has been reworked. It now causes Death's Carapace to grant an additional 10 power per stack.Meh... Well, as an after thought, it's a buff we got here.Grandmaster:Death Nova: Updated skill facts and description. Updated attack name from Lesser Poison Cloud to Poison Nova in order to indicate that it has different behavior from Corrosive Poison Cloud. Fixed an issue that caused this trait to use the minion's stats instead of the necromancer's. Fixed various issues that caused this trait to behave inconsistently with certain minions. Increased damage by 60% in PvE only.P A S S I V E minion gameplay...Corrupter's Fervor: This trait has been reworked. It now grants 1 Death's Carapace stack when applying any condition. Additionally, at 25 Death's Carapace stacks or above, the necromancer gains pulsing protection for 3 seconds every 3 seconds.That's not wise in anyway... Absolutely not.Unholy Sanctuary: This trait is unchanged.lolSo, to sum it up: Nerf of basic performances to increase potential performance, traits that needed to be changed ain't changed and huge stat powercreep that will mostly impact WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 @XECOR.2814 said:@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Uhhh, guys? Each stack only lasts 10 seconds (aside from Flesh of the master). How the hell do they think we're ever going to hit 30 on anything resembling a regular basis? I don't even think it's possible if you're not using Corrupter's Fervor.Well think about it. The GM trait proc on condi application, so one spin to win that hits 2 targets will get you 24 stacks alone...that’s ignoring every other trait. Then the shrouded removal will give you 3 per condition cleanse. If this counts external sources of condi cleanse we are talking perma uptime on this buff, from those two traits aloneWhile you are fighting. But when you cant cast skills for kitten and getting hard focus you wont gain anything from the defense line True. I mean what death magic needed was more unique gameplay, but instead we got a pure stat for the buff. In the end I think it’s the buff itself that it lackluster. If they just made the buff do something else other than toughness it would be more unique and formidable. But as of right now this is their design philosophy which is like...meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archon.3987 Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 Instead of wasting resources with class butchering balance-updates nobody asked for they should focus on adding new endgame-content to the game faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anchoku.8142 Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 @Nimon.7840 said:@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Uhhh, guys? Each stack only lasts 10 seconds (aside from Flesh of the master). How the hell do they think we're ever going to hit 30 on anything resembling a regular basis? I don't even think it's possible if you're not using Corrupter's Fervor.Well my guess would be that hitting multiple targets helps stacking.That was my thought as well. WvW condi-bombing is one way to build a full stack quickly. Another is against PvE bosses that allow more time to develop a stack.Unless I misunderstood the preview notes, the purpose of the change is to make Necro easier to bag at the start of an engagement, increase the value of disengaging from Necro to reset the fight, and place more emphasis on having other professions support and escort.Unfortunately, I feel like the changes will nerf Necro more outside of WvW zerging than it will in a zerg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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