anet's vision of the game

[Knighthonor.4061]

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:The reason people ask these questions about direction and updates is because WvW or PvP as a whole never get them. However, a PvE post about something super minor in upcoming PvE content, with maybe 5 posts, will get a anet reply, often times more than one reply from anet, however WvW/PvP questions about just general direction and ANY kind of information on whats actually going on, that will stretch page after page of replies, won't receive a single response from anet.

Which honestly, speaks far greater to their plans for PvP than any reply they could have given.

That's because the WvW community and SPvP community don't really know what they want.What? The WvW community knows exactly what it wants. Even Anet knows exactly what the WvW community wants and needs by now, they are doing it, it is just that they are diverting so few resources to it that it is taking half a decade to accomplish (ed. or is on course to take a decade to accomplish if we factor in the first attempt at mega servers for WvW).

That you can't seem to read or understand and only keep making alot of noise by posting alot of counter-productive spam does not really drown out what the community has been asking for since day one.

The only problem with advocacy here is you. The other problem is the management of Anet.

ok simple then.What do you all want?should be a easy to answer question according to you right?

[Diku.2546]

---

Slowly raises hand...

I know exactly what I want this game mode to be all about, but it will take some time to explain...and I've been doing it for over 3 years now.

Just read a few of my discussions or comments...I don't have that many.

Yours truly,Diku

Credibility requires critical insight & time.

[Knighthonor.4061]

@Diku.2546 said:

Slowly raises hand...

I know exactly what I want this game mode to be all about, but it will take some time to explain...and I've been doing it for over 3 years now.

Just read a few of my discussions or comments...I don't have that many.

Yours truly,Diku

Credibility requires critical insight & time.

care to give a summary here?

[XenesisII.1540]

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@"Diku.2546" said:

Slowly raises hand...

I know

exactly

what I want this game mode to be all about, but it will take some time to explain...and I've been doing it for over 3 years now.

Just read a few of my discussions or comments...I don't have that many.

Yours truly,Diku

Credibility requires critical insight & time.

care to give a summary here?

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89449/wvg-world-vs-globes

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Knighthonor.4061 said:I find it funny that the people whining about the mounts in WvW totally ignore the fact that WvW was greatly dying before Mounts were added.

Ahh..

Good clarification this time.

We don’t ignore the fact.

The complaint comes in that the mounts didn’t help the population, and one of the largest potential ‘balancers’ of population has continued to not be implemented.

Work being spent on what amounts to a cosmetic monetary implementation into a mode that has serious broken aspect to it that are being ignored.

It’s truly the proverbial ‘lipstick on a pig’.

And before you say it, population is worse now than it was before mounts. Mounts have not helped.

In fact, anecdotally, it has made it worse.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:The reason people ask these questions about direction and updates is because WvW or PvP as a whole never get them. However, a PvE post about something super minor in upcoming PvE content, with maybe 5 posts, will get a anet reply, often times more than one reply from anet, however WvW/PvP questions about just general direction and ANY kind of information on whats actually going on, that will stretch page after page of replies, won't receive a single response from anet.

Which honestly, speaks far greater to their plans for PvP than any reply they could have given.

Same with WvW, you people

Much like @Obtena.7952 , you obviously don’t actually play WvW as you both like to use this phrase ‘you people’

Truly play the mode for a few months.

Not just keep participation up, not just jump into a public Zerg once a week, not just hop in and do you dailies.

Play it. Understand what some of the strategy is, understand why Desert BL is so very different from Alpine, and why both are very different from EBG.

Understand the progression that needs to happen to control a map, including the fights that go into it.

Pick the brain of one of the larger guild commanders that have seen success (those that are still there)

Instead of belittling those that have worked hard to keep the mode afloat, those that have actually spent more than received in rewards because they actually enjoy the game play.

Talk to those that seem bitter now because of the neglect. Actually listen to their concerns.

You might actually see what the concerns are.

Or don’t and continue to try to either

• turn it into WoW
• Belittle those that actually love the mode.

Either way, I hope you find what you enjoy and are as passionate as many of the posters in here that you and he like to.. well, the best way I can describe it, is degrade them.

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said:The reason people ask these questions about direction and updates is because WvW or PvP as a whole never get them. However, a PvE post about something super minor in upcoming PvE content, with maybe 5 posts, will get a anet reply, often times more than one reply from anet, however WvW/PvP questions about just general direction and ANY kind of information on whats actually going on, that will stretch page after page of replies, won't receive a single response from anet.

Which honestly, speaks far greater to their plans for PvP than any reply they could have given.

That's because the WvW community and SPvP community don't really know what they want. They ask for non tangible requests like better Balance, which can't really be measured.

People out there keep cosigning Anet's statement about how 5v5 Conquest is the best thing since sliced bread, which is why we still won't get anything bigger than 5v5 in SPvP outside private non queue matches.

Same with WvW, you people don't know what you want. All I hear is cries for Mounts to go and Firebrand to be nerfed. Well WvW was dying before Firebrand and Mounts. That's not going to save it. The WvW need new PvPvE Features and most of you all rather WvW stay as is but with No Mounts, nerfed Guardian and some Alliance system that will kill the last bit of Faction pride in this badly designed game mode.

The community knows what it wants. Now, if a specific person knows how to get there is something else, however most people know there is a balance problem, even if they don't know the cure. And to state balance is not possible is a slap in the face to any number of extremely competitive games that do balance. The problem is that it SEEMS impossible with GW2 because WvW and PvP have not had any serious balance teams in many years. So, over all they have been listening to the masses, and not the top end players, who are the ones they should listen to. A fight with lower skilled players who don't know or understand all mechanics, can have random outcomes, and the person on the stronger class can actually lose or be a coin toss, however that doesn't happen in the upper levels where fights have known outcomes based on class/build and not lack of skill. To say balance can't be measured is just plain wrong.

Yes, WvW was shrinking before FB/scourge and mounts, but not at the rate we are now, however having a shrinking population is normal for a game of this age, for a game mode that has not seen any new content in years. And FB is a problem, this is from someone who mains guard class, however FB is part of the power creep that started long before PoF, just on the sustain side, both boon/sustain AND DPS/condi need to be toned down. If you don't reel in both, you end up with bigger issues, and since we have not had a balance team in years that power creep has gone on for so long with nothing in it's way, it will be a serious task to get it under control. However, the boon/sustain that has come along because of the DPS/condi somewhat works right now on the larger scale, but ends up with lots of "one shot" builds in 1vs1 because health pools have not changed, and unless you have a pocket support friend, it can become pretty annoying game play. You also have the reverse of that where those boon/support builds can be close to unkillable in 1vs1 and the delta between the two has all but removed the viability of bruiser builds with few exceptions. We have always had DPS and support builds, but the delta between the two has never been so large, as today a bruiser build can't DPS through a bunkers HP, but is still in range of having 80-90% of their HP gone from a single burst. This delta can be seen in how far behind many core classes are to HoT or PoF elites, and the core classes that do stand out, are often in very specific cases and give up lots of other utility of a PoF spec.

Part of all that is no change in meta, builds or classes used, even in games that have good balance over all will move the meta around, this makes things fun and changes up game play.

[Knighthonor.4061]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:The reason people ask these questions about direction and updates is because WvW or PvP as a whole never get them. However, a PvE post about something super minor in upcoming PvE content, with maybe 5 posts, will get a anet reply, often times more than one reply from anet, however WvW/PvP questions about just general direction and ANY kind of information on whats actually going on, that will stretch page after page of replies, won't receive a single response from anet.

Which honestly, speaks far greater to their plans for PvP than any reply they could have given.

Same with WvW, you people

Much like @Obtena.7952 , you obviously don’t actually play WvW as you both like to use this phrase ‘you people’

Truly play the mode for a few months.

Not just keep participation up, not just jump into a public Zerg once a week, not just hop in and do you dailies.

Play it. Understand what some of the strategy is, understand why Desert BL is so very different from Alpine, and why both are very different from EBG.

Understand the progression that needs to happen to control a map, including the fights that go into it.

Pick the brain of one of the larger guild commanders that have seen success (those that are still there)

Instead of belittling those that have worked hard to keep the mode afloat, those that have actually spent more than received in rewards because they actually enjoy the game play.

Talk to those that seem bitter now because of the neglect. Actually listen to their concerns.

You might actually see what the concerns are.

Or don’t and continue to try to either

• turn it into WoW
• Belittle those that actually love the mode.

Either way, I hope you find what you enjoy and are as passionate as many of the posters in here that you and he like to.. well, the best way I can describe it, is degrade them.

Strider you proving my point. Insulting me not really bother me. no I am not a Dedicated WvW player. never said I was.

But you once again dont explain what you want for WvW that is tangible?

This a simple question but none of you WvWers ever seem to give a reasonable answer.

Typical answers I get are the following (and its variations):

MORE BALANCE/ Nerf FirebrandMountsLagPopulation/BG Da Greatest

but hey if you have others go ahead and feel free to add to this. I like reading and discussing the stuff. ...

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:The reason people ask these questions about direction and updates is because WvW or PvP as a whole never get them. However, a PvE post about something super minor in upcoming PvE content, with maybe 5 posts, will get a anet reply, often times more than one reply from anet, however WvW/PvP questions about just general direction and ANY kind of information on whats actually going on, that will stretch page after page of replies, won't receive a single response from anet.

Which honestly, speaks far greater to their plans for PvP than any reply they could have given.

Same with WvW, you people

Much like @Obtena.7952 , you obviously don’t actually play WvW as you both like to use this phrase ‘you people’

Truly play the mode for a few months.

Not just keep participation up, not just jump into a public Zerg once a week, not just hop in and do you dailies.

Play it. Understand what some of the strategy is, understand why Desert BL is so very different from Alpine, and why both are very different from EBG.

Understand the progression that needs to happen to control a map, including the fights that go into it.

Pick the brain of one of the larger guild commanders that have seen success (those that are still there)

Instead of belittling those that have worked hard to keep the mode afloat, those that have actually spent more than received in rewards because they actually enjoy the game play.

Talk to those that seem bitter now because of the neglect. Actually listen to their concerns.

You might actually see what the concerns are.

Or don’t and continue to try to either

• turn it into WoW
• Belittle those that actually love the mode.

Either way, I hope you find what you enjoy and are as passionate as many of the posters in here that you and he like to.. well, the best way I can describe it, is degrade them.

Strider you proving my point. Insulting me not really bother me. no I am not a Dedicated WvW player. never said I was.

If you feel that post was insulting, I think you need to get out more. ?

But you once again dont explain what you want for WvW that is tangible?

This a simple question but none of you WvWers ever seem to give a reasonable answer

I gave you the way to get the answer. If you just listen on the forums, you won’t get what you are looking for.

Typical answers I get are the following (and its variations):

MORE BALANCE/ Nerf FirebrandMountsLagPopulation/BG Da Greatest

but hey if you have others go ahead and feel free to add to this. I like reading and discussing the stuff. ...

When you actually understand the mode better, come back and ask. That is if you truly want an answer.

[subversiontwo.7501]

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:The reason people ask these questions about direction and updates is because WvW or PvP as a whole never get them. However, a PvE post about something super minor in upcoming PvE content, with maybe 5 posts, will get a anet reply, often times more than one reply from anet, however WvW/PvP questions about just general direction and ANY kind of information on whats actually going on, that will stretch page after page of replies, won't receive a single response from anet.

Which honestly, speaks far greater to their plans for PvP than any reply they could have given.

That's because the WvW community and SPvP community don't really know what they want.What? The WvW community knows exactly what it wants. Even Anet knows exactly what the WvW community wants and needs by now, they are doing it, it is just that they are diverting so few resources to it that it is taking half a decade to accomplish (ed. or is on course to take a decade to accomplish if we factor in the first attempt at mega servers for WvW).

That you can't seem to read or understand and only keep making alot of noise by posting alot of counter-productive spam does not really drown out what the community has been asking for since day one.

The only problem with advocacy here is you. The other problem is the management of Anet.

ok simple then.What do you all want?should be a easy to answer question according to you right?

• The #1 thing that people want is population balance
• The first thing that Anet did to respond to that was the EotM pairings, they were part of the megaserver effort.
• It's been largely unsucessful, but not not outright bad for WvW in any way, it has just been a weaker system than what WvW had or PvE got
• It could even be argued that the outnumbered buff was in line with that but it's still in uniterated survey mode years later
• The second thing they did was the server pairings but that was mostly a temporary attempt at clogging the drain. It's become bad with time
• The current thing that Anet does for that is Alliances, where Alliances are meant to be a first step or fundamental building block for a larger effort

• Once population balance is done people want the competetive edge to be brought back with the reintroduction of tangible rewards for success
• There can not really be any rewards for success, regardless of PPT or PPK, before success can be determined against opposing players

 

Past rewards I believe people would like more maps, only maps that are actually conducive to WvW content: not bridges or ravines. The community does not dislike new maps it is just that both EotM and DBL are oversaturated with natural obstacles that people can not cross or creates chokes that no one wants to cross in a fight. They were created like that because Anet believed that it would encourage fights where smaller groups could punch above their weight but in the end they just created a bunch of stuff that are in the way and discourages fighting on large portions of those maps.

That's why EotM became a farm map and roamers who do go on DBL mostly do so because the map is so underpopulated that it is easier to get on it and find peers on it. However, it's mostly just played at hotspots. So certain spots on both maps are used, but they are not used as whole maps. Both maps as a whole are just poorly designed maps. That doesn't mean that there couldn't be new good maps. The iterations that have been done on the other maps have mostly been good. Maps only require small variation to feel different.

Past that is just a general overhaul of the combat system that has just become flooded with too many effects from PvE that scales poorly into WvW. I think most people agree that an overhaul is needed and that it requires a simplification that returns some of the gameplay closer to its roots. However, the details of that may not be something people agree on. People are likely to agree on that it is needed but not on how it should be done.

All of those things are mostly self-explanatory things that should already have been here.

In a longer perspective there are many other things that could be done, but there you are more likely to see oppinions differ. What I've said so far is very non-controversial and something that most people subscribe to, regardless of scale or subset of content. They may prioritize things differently, but I've yet to see people be on different sides of those points. Like, the Warclaw is controversial because you have a couple of opposing sides. The population balance, rewards or map changes does not really have an opposing side, only people that may attribute different priority to them or that some people fear Anet's implementation of them given their track record with WvW. That is not the same is disliking the idea of them however.

So you will see people saying that they don't want rewards or maps but that is because they are rightfully worried of the implementation of them and you will see people that eg., say that overhauling the combat system (or adressing the Warclaw) holds priority for them over the population balance but it is not like anyone dislikes either system, whereas the Warclaw has been very divisive, several of the events have been very divisive and so forth.

 

[Acheron.4731]

I could venture a guess as to what I want:(general): balance (specific): more frequent balance updates to tinker with overperforming classes, traits, skills and revamp underperforming(general): better rewards (specific): reason to win each week, more things to spend currency on that is wvw specific and pve quality (i.e. legendary armor that is not just a copy of ascended) perhaps reward tracks that can only be unlocked with ranks (silver, gold, plat, mithril, etc..)with unique items to reward the veterans for sticking it out so long.(general): population balance (specific): evenly distributed population across worlds that take into consideration timezones, ppl, hours played, and limited transfer (btw, alliances only does one of those things)That should sum it up.There are plenty of other things I am sure I could think of but these are the MAIN things I want.

[Caedmon.6798]

Destroy the blob meta in any way. The game could be much more fun if you had several smaller groups running around as most guild raids do, 10 - 20 instead of 50 here 60 there which would also increase the chance to find more fair fights since there will be people spread out allover the map. You could have 4 groups of 10 - 15 on one map going around able to support each other aswell not counting scouts,roamers . Destroying the zoneblob meta with 20 fb's and 30 necs in the squad would only be healthy for the game. It could also serve for being able to play using more tactics, but who likes that anyway right.

[c space cowboy.2764]

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:The reason people ask these questions about direction and updates is because WvW or PvP as a whole never get them. However, a PvE post about something super minor in upcoming PvE content, with maybe 5 posts, will get a anet reply, often times more than one reply from anet, however WvW/PvP questions about just general direction and ANY kind of information on whats actually going on, that will stretch page after page of replies, won't receive a single response from anet.

Which honestly, speaks far greater to their plans for PvP than any reply they could have given.

Same with WvW, you people

Much like @"Obtena.7952" , you obviously don’t actually play WvW as you both like to use this phrase ‘you people’

Truly play the mode for a few months.

Not just keep participation up, not just jump into a public Zerg once a week, not just hop in and do you dailies.

Play it. Understand what some of the strategy is, understand why Desert BL is so very different from Alpine, and why both are very different from EBG.

Understand the progression that needs to happen to control a map, including the fights that go into it.

Pick the brain of one of the larger guild commanders that have seen success (those that are still there)

Instead of belittling those that have worked hard to keep the mode afloat, those that have actually spent more than received in rewards because they actually enjoy the game play.

Talk to those that seem bitter now because of the neglect. Actually listen to their concerns.

You might actually see what the concerns are.

Or don’t and continue to try to either

• turn it into WoW
• Belittle those that actually love the mode.

Either way, I hope you find what you enjoy and are as passionate as many of the posters in here that you and he like to.. well, the best way I can describe it, is degrade them.

Strider you proving my point. Insulting me not really bother me. no I am not a Dedicated WvW player. never said I was.

But you once again dont explain what you want for WvW that is tangible?

This a simple question but none of you WvWers ever seem to give a reasonable answer.

Typical answers I get are the following (and its variations):

MORE BALANCE/ Nerf Firebrand

Mounts

Lag

Population/BG Da Greatest

but hey if you have others go ahead and feel free to add to this. I like reading and discussing the stuff. ...

You want a list?

Ok.

1st. Communication. Any and all. There can't be talk about what needs to change or not change if the devs dont communicate with us. This forum is full of suggestions about what could or needs to happen. Dev response? Doesnt exist. From there its trickle down.

2nd. Fix population imbalance. How? Search this sub, there are hundreds of threads suggestion how to do it. But hey alliances...."Soon"..2 years and counting since it was announced and the population imbalance has been a problem since launch.

3rd. Fix the server lag. Yes it exists. No it doesn't happen on the chinese servers that have 10 times NA's population. Why? They obviously have better engineers working on their servers. A dev on reddit said there's a problem and has been a ghost since.

4th. Class/skill balance. The fact that 2 main classes have dominated WvW since HoTs release is ridiculous. How to fix this has been the subject of literally thousands of threads. Communication from the devs is key here.

5th. Content. New maps. Events. Anything. We've had the same wvw maps for how long now? How many new maps has pve had since launch? You can understand why wvw people are leaving in droves because the only content updates we've had is literally table scraps. Gliding, after the fact. Half assed implemented mounts, after the fact, and took 7 months to fix? I put a question mark there because you can still mount into most structures, but that leads us to...

6th. Bug fixes. There are bugs in wvw that have been there since launch. Honestly.... wtf?

I'm sure there are others that can be added to this list.

[Thornwolf.9721]

At this point I doubt they have one for WvW if anything they might make it more like battle royal, as it seems that is exactly what the vocal minority want. "No objectives, an open field where we charge one another." Which would utterly murder the game mode for me and those like me, I do it because its like RvR from warhammer and the moment it looses the little bit of that it has then Im out.

[thepenmonster.3621]

@c space cowboy.2764 said:4th. Class/skill balance. The fact that 2 main classes have dominated WvW since HoTs release is ridiculous.

The rest of your desires are reasonable, but this is impossible. Meta is about having an advantage. Balance is about not having any advantage. They are incompatible. You want profession balance in the competitive modes you must remove the meta. That will not fly with anyone.

The other option to this is to completely sever the PvE side of the game from the PvP so changes to one won't impact the other. I figure it's just as impossible due to the money and manpower costs.

[JTGuevara.9018]

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:The reason people ask these questions about direction and updates is because WvW or PvP as a whole never get them. However, a PvE post about something super minor in upcoming PvE content, with maybe 5 posts, will get a anet reply, often times more than one reply from anet, however WvW/PvP questions about just general direction and ANY kind of information on whats actually going on, that will stretch page after page of replies, won't receive a single response from anet.

Which honestly, speaks far greater to their plans for PvP than any reply they could have given.

That's because the WvW community and SPvP community don't really know what they want. They ask for non tangible requests like better Balance, which can't really be measured.

People out there keep cosigning Anet's statement about how 5v5 Conquest is the best thing since sliced bread, which is why we still won't get anything bigger than 5v5 in SPvP outside private non queue matches.

Same with WvW, you people don't know what you want. All I hear is cries for Mounts to go and Firebrand to be nerfed. Well WvW was dying before Firebrand and Mounts. That's not going to save it. The WvW need new PvPvE Features and most of you all rather WvW stay as is but with No Mounts, nerfed Guardian and some Alliance system that will kill the last bit of Faction pride in this badly designed game mode.

The community knows what it wants. Now, if a specific person knows how to get there is something else, however most people know there is a balance problem, even if they don't know the cure. And to state balance is not possible is a slap in the face to any number of extremely competitive games that do balance. The problem is that it SEEMS impossible with GW2 because WvW and PvP have not had any serious balance teams in many years. So, over all they have been listening to the masses, and not the top end players, who are the ones they should listen to. A fight with lower skilled players who don't know or understand all mechanics, can have random outcomes, and the person on the stronger class can actually lose or be a coin toss, however that doesn't happen in the upper levels where fights have known outcomes based on class/build and not lack of skill. To say balance can't be measured is just plain wrong.

Yes, WvW was shrinking before FB/scourge and mounts, but not at the rate we are now, however having a shrinking population is normal for a game of this age, for a game mode that has not seen any new content in years. And FB is a problem, this is from someone who mains guard class, however FB is part of the power creep that started long before PoF, just on the sustain side, both boon/sustain AND DPS/condi need to be toned down. If you don't reel in both, you end up with bigger issues, and since we have not had a balance team in years that power creep has gone on for so long with nothing in it's way, it will be a serious task to get it under control. However, the boon/sustain that has come along because of the DPS/condi somewhat works right now on the larger scale, but ends up with lots of "one shot" builds in 1vs1 because health pools have not changed, and unless you have a pocket support friend, it can become pretty annoying game play. You also have the reverse of that where those boon/support builds can be close to unkillable in 1vs1 and the delta between the two has all but removed the viability of bruiser builds with few exceptions. We have always had DPS and support builds, but the delta between the two has never been so large, as today a bruiser build can't DPS through a bunkers HP, but is still in range of having 80-90% of their HP gone from a single burst. This delta can be seen in how far behind many core classes are to HoT or PoF elites, and the core classes that do stand out, are often in very specific cases and give up lots of other utility of a PoF spec.

Part of all that is no change in meta, builds or classes used, even in games that have good balance over all will move the meta around, this makes things fun and changes up game play.

Ehhh....no....Devs need to balance the game independently of the players. From what I've experienced in this game, players simply cannot be trusted with class balance issues, top end or low end. If we just hand over power to the top end and balance it for them, stuff won't change. They'll get to have their cake and eat it too. It reminds me of past ESL shenanigans back when it existed, top end players throwing tournament tantrums and ANet caving in and banning amulets because of it. That's not good for this game. Balancing for low end isn't any good either, especially if you're new. That being said, feedback should be considered but any class tinkering should be left up for the devs. However....this entire conversation is essentially pointless because for any of this to even happen, developers and ANet need to start freakina CARING about pvp, speaking of which as a player of 7 years myself, I don't ever see happening. I've moved on from pvp in this game.

[kraai.7265]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@kraai.7265 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@kraai.7265 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@kraai.7265 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@kraai.7265 said:and btw you were hypocrital, beeing a police if my post you dislike and then using that to defend from someone who doesn't share your pov.

My question to you had nothing to do with sharing a POV ... in fact, you don't know what my POV is. There really isn't any reason to hide complaints behind the constant barrage of roadmap requests. Just come out and say what you don't like. You don't need a roadmap to do that.

Actually your question did nothing usefull for the whole post, but if you really want to know what i want, it's simple, anet shows no commitment at all with pvp or wvw, yet they still throw some changes now and then so players keep hooked, but what this game need is actually a miracle

i either want them to just shut it down, and tell their pvp community that they don't care anymore, and pvp/wvw won't get any more support

You aren't going to get any of those things ... but you're going to accuse me of not providing anything useful in the whole post ... Sure. The whole THREAD was never INTENDED to be useful.

And you are just bored and looking someone to argue with, go grab attention from ur family or friends if you feel lonely, and let some developer from anet tell me those things ok? good bye!

That doesn't make sense. The forum is a place for open discussion. There is no reason for me to leave and no developer is going to come and tell you anything because your intent is clear; obviously it's not to have a reasonable discussion ... it's to call out people and make demands. I have to leave because I disagree with how you are posting on the forum and misleading people? I don't think that's how it works.

do as you please m8, clearly your intention is not to have a reasonable discussion either, just calling for attention and wanting to argue with somebody, good luck with that, thanks for adding absolutely nothing usefull to the topic

See, this is the problem .. I came here wondering what the 'vision for the game' thread was going to be about because it's not like we haven't seen these before ... man, was I ever disappointed when it was just a WvW rant. Even the people that tried to go that direction were thoroughly diminished and dismissed in their attempts to talk about it with more WvW bashing, so really, what's the point of 'adding something useful' ...

But you know what, I will oblige you because you REALLY want to be on topic and have me contribute ... so here we go.

We know where the game is headed ... Halloween event coming up ... maybe some kind of minor OW event in core like bandits or Ley Line Anomaly before Christmas or an LS if we are lucky, then Christmas and Chinese New Year, some long term WvW alliances thing if we are lucky. Probably a fractal developent in that time. WE aren't due for a raid until ... the new year? Random GS offerings. Probably a few smaller things in that time frame like Jewelry 500. That's about as good as it gets. Nothing in there is going to blow your socks off with fixes to all the things you currently hate about WvW, so why ask for it? It's a ruse.

Even if there

was

something completely awesome in there you want .. you aren't going to hear about it until about a month before it actually happens. That's just how Anet operates.

@Obtena.7952 said:

@kraai.7265 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@kraai.7265 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@kraai.7265 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@kraai.7265 said:and btw you were hypocrital, beeing a police if my post you dislike and then using that to defend from someone who doesn't share your pov.

My question to you had nothing to do with sharing a POV ... in fact, you don't know what my POV is. There really isn't any reason to hide complaints behind the constant barrage of roadmap requests. Just come out and say what you don't like. You don't need a roadmap to do that.

Actually your question did nothing usefull for the whole post, but if you really want to know what i want, it's simple, anet shows no commitment at all with pvp or wvw, yet they still throw some changes now and then so players keep hooked, but what this game need is actually a miracle

i either want them to just shut it down, and tell their pvp community that they don't care anymore, and pvp/wvw won't get any more support

You aren't going to get any of those things ... but you're going to accuse me of not providing anything useful in the whole post ... Sure. The whole THREAD was never INTENDED to be useful.

And you are just bored and looking someone to argue with, go grab attention from ur family or friends if you feel lonely, and let some developer from anet tell me those things ok? good bye!

That doesn't make sense. The forum is a place for open discussion. There is no reason for me to leave and no developer is going to come and tell you anything because your intent is clear; obviously it's not to have a reasonable discussion ... it's to call out people and make demands. I have to leave because I disagree with how you are posting on the forum and misleading people? I don't think that's how it works.

do as you please m8, clearly your intention is not to have a reasonable discussion either, just calling for attention and wanting to argue with somebody, good luck with that, thanks for adding absolutely nothing usefull to the topic

See, this is the problem .. I came here wondering what the 'vision for the game' thread was going to be about because it's not like we haven't seen these before ... man, was I ever disappointed when it was just a WvW rant. Even the people that tried to go that direction were thoroughly diminished and dismissed in their attempts to talk about it with more WvW bashing, so really, what's the point of 'adding something useful' ...

But you know what, I will oblige you because you REALLY want to be on topic and have me contribute ... so here we go.

We know where the game is headed ... Halloween event coming up ... maybe some kind of minor OW event in core like bandits or Ley Line Anomaly before Christmas or an LS if we are lucky, then Christmas and Chinese New Year, some long term WvW alliances thing if we are lucky. Probably a fractal developent in that time. WE aren't due for a raid until ... the new year? Random GS offerings. Probably a few smaller things in that time frame like Jewelry 500. That's about as good as it gets. Nothing in there is going to blow your socks off with fixes to all the things you currently hate about WvW, so why ask for it? It's a ruse.

Even if there

was

something completely awesome in there you want .. you aren't going to hear about it until about a month before it actually happens. That's just how Anet operates.

ohhh now i see your point my friend, and you are right, i should have posted this on the wvw subsection, only problem is.. that section is completely ignored by devs, so i tried this one instead to see what happened

ok so thanks for finally giving me something, i like your reply this time, but i still find it funny, you say "we know where the game is headed" yet every thing you name is either old content rebooted(haloween, christmas, etc), and for those things that aren't old content, you added tons of "maybe" and "if we are lucky" also a "probably" and you mentioned a possible new raid we don't even know about, so that shows me you aren't actually sure about where the game is heading, and ofc i forgot to clarify i'm only interested in talking about pvp and wvw, but now you mention all of that it seems even pveers aren't really sure of what they are getting in the future...

and i'm not trying to insult you with all of this, i just wander, as customers? aren't you tired of not knowing what is anet using your money for? if you already paid and some of you are still paying money to this devs, wouldn't you like to know what they are actually thinking, or planning for the future? it's so wrong to ask them about this? after all i payed for this game, as a customer i don't have the right to know whats going on and what will change in the future? specially regarding two game modes i enjoy the most that have been neglected for the past 2 years?

you know why im so eager for knowing what they want to do? because as you well said, all we get since pof release are "maybes" "if we are lucky" and my favourite "coming soon" and as a customer im sick of it, specially since the only two game modes i play are beeing so ignored

[kraai.7265]

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:The reason people ask these questions about direction and updates is because WvW or PvP as a whole never get them. However, a PvE post about something super minor in upcoming PvE content, with maybe 5 posts, will get a anet reply, often times more than one reply from anet, however WvW/PvP questions about just general direction and ANY kind of information on whats actually going on, that will stretch page after page of replies, won't receive a single response from anet.

Which honestly, speaks far greater to their plans for PvP than any reply they could have given.

Same with WvW, you people

Much like @"Obtena.7952" , you obviously don’t actually play WvW as you both like to use this phrase ‘you people’

Truly play the mode for a few months.

Not just keep participation up, not just jump into a public Zerg once a week, not just hop in and do you dailies.

Play it. Understand what some of the strategy is, understand why Desert BL is so very different from Alpine, and why both are very different from EBG.

Understand the progression that needs to happen to control a map, including the fights that go into it.

Pick the brain of one of the larger guild commanders that have seen success (those that are still there)

Instead of belittling those that have worked hard to keep the mode afloat, those that have actually spent more than received in rewards because they actually enjoy the game play.

Talk to those that seem bitter now because of the neglect. Actually listen to their concerns.

You might actually see what the concerns are.

Or don’t and continue to try to either

• turn it into WoW
• Belittle those that actually love the mode.

Either way, I hope you find what you enjoy and are as passionate as many of the posters in here that you and he like to.. well, the best way I can describe it, is degrade them.

Strider you proving my point. Insulting me not really bother me. no I am not a Dedicated WvW player. never said I was.

But you once again dont explain what you want for WvW that is tangible?

This a simple question but none of you WvWers ever seem to give a reasonable answer.

Typical answers I get are the following (and its variations):

MORE BALANCE/ Nerf Firebrand

Mounts

Lag

Population/BG Da Greatest

but hey if you have others go ahead and feel free to add to this. I like reading and discussing the stuff. ...

This one i found really funny, dude, that's it! we don't ask for much, just more balance, because fights decided by who has more necros and fb aren't fun at all, we all miss the times we could make zerg busting crews with just 10 to 15 man and destroy 40 man raids

most of wvwers who actually like the game mode for the fights and not ppt, hate that mount, because now finding good fights it's almost impossible, big groups move so fast they can defend multiple objectives in a matter of minutes, roaming, and small scale fights were ruined because this same zergs now don't waste time passing by camps and killing roaming groups, they just farm them and move on to next objective

lag, well who doesn't hate lag, but lets face it, i don't think anet will ever fix that, too much visual cluster came with pof specs

population, i'm actually against blackgate every week, and let me tell you they are so annoying to play against, all they do is avoid fights unless they have 3 times the amount of players you bring, and they cap everything when no one is playing, it seems they either have every time zone covered or they actually study other world's time zones just to avoid them as long as they can

some others might want new maps, i understand them, some others new content, or stuff like that, but let me tell you as a player who mostly plays wvw since 4 years ago no stop until now, all i want is this you mentioned, i don't need more, because i enjoy the game mode, and used to enjoy the fights too, yet pof made very spec so simple and spammy, and killed so much of the interaction between allies, and the build variation, it got boring pretty fast, all you see is fb and necro zergs, with a few revs engis and warriors playing the exact same style of avoid fight and damage, kait and drop ranged bomb, until one side has less players so you can slaughter them

that if they actually fight and not just run away on their cats to defend something else or avoid fights they think they can't win

i really don't understand why you say "wvw players don't know what they want" when you actually made a pretty good list of what we need irght now

[Dawdler.8521]

@kraai.7265 said:most of wvwers who actually like the game mode for the fights and not ppt, hate that mount, because now finding good fights it's almost impossible

Most of the WvWers that like fights is a fabricated myth to feel superior to others and finding the players that actually dare to take fights they most likely will loose is almost impossible to find, so it balances out.

[kraai.7265]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@kraai.7265 said:most of wvwers who actually like the game mode for the fights and not ppt, hate that mount, because now finding good fights it's almost impossible

Most of the WvWers that like fights is a fabricated myth to feel superior to others and finding the players that actually dare to take fights they most likely will loose is almost impossible to find, so it balances out.i don't really understood what you mean, are you mixing what i said about blackgate with what i said about mounts and fights? maybe try to read the whole paragraph before replyingalso i don't feel superior, without players who play for ppt, i'd be stuck in t4 with empy servers, so i actually like them, but i don't like blackgate mentality of avoiding every fight they can and just capping empty places at off peak hours

and btw, we used to have tons of guilds that took outnumbered fights, the only ones left are cakewalk i think, but even they stopped playing since now class balance resolves around having more necros and fb on your side than anything else, havoc and zerg busting days are dead... and it's a shame

[c space cowboy.2764]

@thepenmonster.3621 said:

@c space cowboy.2764 said:4th. Class/skill balance. The fact that 2 main classes have dominated WvW since HoTs release is ridiculous.

The rest of your desires are reasonable, but this is impossible. Meta is about having an advantage. Balance is about not having any advantage. They are incompatible. You want profession balance in the competitive modes you

must

remove the meta. That will not fly with anyone.

The other option to this is to completely sever the PvE side of the game from the PvP so changes to one won't impact the other. I figure it's just as impossible due to the money and manpower costs.

The meta changes based on class/skill balance. Play wvw long enough and you see that. From hammer train meta to toilet bowl meta to pirate ship etc...

The problem with people leaving is the meta atm is stale as shit and people are bored with it.

Meta shakeup keeps the game fresh.

[Thornwolf.9721]

@thepenmonster.3621 said:

@c space cowboy.2764 said:4th. Class/skill balance. The fact that 2 main classes have dominated WvW since HoTs release is ridiculous.

The rest of your desires are reasonable, but this is impossible. Meta is about having an advantage. Balance is about not having any advantage. They are incompatible. You want profession balance in the competitive modes you

must

remove the meta. That will not fly with anyone.

The other option to this is to completely sever the PvE side of the game from the PvP so changes to one won't impact the other. I figure it's just as impossible due to the money and manpower costs.

Or they can remove the meta and just buckle up and tell the community to get over it, we don't run the game and we have adapted to all sorts of weird choices they've made. Id welcome them destroying the meta and balancing the game so everyone would rely more on skill and knowledge and not bs mechanics/ stupid gimicks to win.

[thepenmonster.3621]

@Thornwolf.9721 said:Id welcome them destroying the meta and balancing the game so everyone would rely more on skill and knowledge and not bs mechanics/ stupid gimicks to win.

I'd rather keep my PvE meta advantages because I want to mow through the trash mobs as quickly as possible and if I was forced to play DH with just the bow I wouldn't play DH.

But as far as complaining about not having balance in competitive modes, yes. Removing meta from the equation and not letting players make their own builds is the only way to create actual play balance.

[Thornwolf.9721]

@thepenmonster.3621 said:

@"Thornwolf.9721" said:Id welcome them destroying the meta and balancing the game so everyone would rely more on skill and knowledge and not bs mechanics/ stupid gimicks to win.

I'd rather keep my PvE meta advantages because I

want

to mow through the trash mobs as quickly as possible and if I was forced to play DH with just the bow I wouldn't play DH.

But as far as complaining about not having balance in competitive modes, yes. Removing meta from the equation and not letting players make their own builds is the only way to create actual play balance.

No allowing people to make their own builds (Stats, trait choices and utility choices.) Is fine but you have to make ALL of them viable and competitive with each other and EVERY facet of the class needs to be made into a competitive piece of the puzzle. Make synergies and open the doors for the trinity, because the trinity is the only way balance will ever be in any semblance achieved in this game.

I don't really care about "Pve" advantages because pve is easy peasy, Bring in the trinity and put dps where it is supposed to be and make actual tanking with real supports rather than this "You can do these things, but you should still be hitting as hard as everyone else so glassy or bust". This non-meta/ non-role ideal worked when the game actually stuck to it and didn't enforce boss timers and various other things but now that this game has adopted the WoW style of raiding (Minus the progression in gear) they need to make the trinity come full circle to enable everything to be separated into three tiers. Tanks, dps and healers/support this way we can have honest roles for specs/classes and they can fill these roles.

With each elite spec it should be a "Different" way to play and thus fill a different role, so each class could have a heal, tank and dps spec respectively ontop of the core which is geared to fit into a specific role.

[thepenmonster.3621]

@"Thornwolf.9721" said:you have to make ALL of them viable

That's my point, yup. It can't be done under current conditions so demanding "balance" is pointless.