Rampage existing as it has been for this long and then getting nerfed. What's the reason/excuse?

[The Ace.9105]

How on earth is it even possible to have anet devs notice that skills like rampage are overperforming and those skills getting buffed/existing in the game?

"Rampage has been overperforming since the initial change that brought its cooldown to 90 seconds, and continues to with the cooldown at 120 seconds."

This change was like forever ago and rampage was already too good before the change and people wanted to get it nerfed but instead, somehow it got buffed despite overperforming?!?!? Any explanations/excuses for this?

How is it possible that we have the worst balance ever and op skills are getting buffed and then suddenly you guys at anet are like "oh, these skills are overperforming after they were already overperforming and after the buff we made that made it overperform even more. Let's nerf it this time." ???????

The development of gw2 balance is comparable to having a security breach that shows ppl bank information for everyone for 2 years and then after the damage is done the devs be like "oh, we noticed that and we are gonna fix it in the next upcoming patch sometimes during this or next year."

Maybe the game is like this cause if I type anything "Anet offensive" aka negative words/feelings about the game (not sunshine, lollipops, and rainbows or quaggans and whatever nonsense we have in gw2) to this post it gets deleted so the feedback anet gets through the main channel is crippled to the point where these comparable things happen. I suggest rehiring the moderation team or change rules to allow people to express how they feel about the game as long as it's not personal.

[BadMed.3846]

While I agree rampage was overperforming, overall warriors have not been overperforming in any way. There's a lot of other specs that need nerfs more urgently.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

Rampage was my favorite profession :s

[Exedore.6320]

New developer who knows what he's doing.

[Asuran.5469]

Rampage should get some cc nerfs and not big damage nerfs.

[SeikeNz.3526]

10k per hit while doing perma stun is very fine

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

Yeah, it's really weird that everyone's going "RAMPAGE REEEE" lately when it's existed in its current state (damage and all) since... I don't even know, when they made it a physical skill almost half a decade ago? I mean, I guess every better warrior elite's been nerfed into the ground so there's not much else to use...

[KryTiKaL.3125]

@"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:Yeah, it's really weird that everyone's going "RAMPAGE REEEE" lately when it's existed in its current state (damage and all) since... I don't even know, when they made it a physical skill almost half a decade ago? I mean, I guess every better warrior elite's been nerfed into the ground so there's not much else to use...

It isn't just "lately" its been a complaint point on the PvP forums for a few years now. Ever since they added the Damage Reduction back in 2014, to be honest. However it wasn't such a huge complaint point because power creep hadn't reached the tipping point yet, as it was before HoT and well before PoF. So it was an elite that made you tanky and provided CC but it didn't overall jump your DPS up + have tons of CC back then like it has been doing in recent years.

ANet elected to try and mess with the duration rather than address the blatant power creep that has been progressively added to the game through the accessibility of boons like Might. This design approach to class balance and reworks has actually been the direct cause of it; back in 2014 (and earlier) Might, among other boons, was not nearly as accessible and exacerbated as it has been in recent years. Getting 20 to 25 stacks of Might in PvP took some doing and usually it was done through team comp and team play, not just casually being in combat and stacking it through your traits which is exactly what it is like now.

Thats why I'm glad Cal made mention that they would be looking at lowering base damage of skills across the board, which is literally the only other alternative if ANet is adamantly going to stick with the kind of Boon accessibility we have today.

[KrHome.1920]

Rampage has always been overpowered when it was off cooldown. I facerolled (literally! - you can destroy people with random skill usage) people with it in 2014 but stopped in 2015 because I couldn't finish a match on warrior without falling asleep (the class is simple and boring as f.). If I had played warrior before I am pretty sure I would have facerolled people since 2012.

Just because the nerf is late, it does not mean it's not reasonable.

[Zagerus.8675]

@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:Rampage was my favorite profession :s

i died

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:Yeah, it's really weird that everyone's going "RAMPAGE REEEE" lately when it's existed in its current state (damage and all) since... I don't even know, when they made it a physical skill almost half a decade ago? I mean, I guess every better warrior elite's been nerfed into the ground so there's not much else to use...

Hasn't it been a general consensus since forever that, regardless of warrior's state of balance at a given time, Rampage has always been one of the best elites in the game? It's hardly a "lately" -thing.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

rampage only thing keeping war viable

[otto.5684]

Meh. I do think the current nerf is warranted. First, it is SB, not warrior that is outperforming. Yet the change is a blanket nerf to warriors. Second, there are other skills/traits that are far mor problematic, like the tether and bulls charge. In any case, the balance is poor so.. whatever.

[Tharan.9085]

PvP specific balance team with more rights

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@"The Ace.9105" said:How on earth is it even possible to have anet devs notice that skills like rampage are overperforming and those skills getting buffed/existing in the game?

"Rampage has been overperforming since the initial change that brought its cooldown to 90 seconds, and continues to with the cooldown at 120 seconds."

This change was like forever ago and rampage was already too good before the change and people wanted to get it nerfed but instead, somehow it got buffed despite overperforming?!?!? Any explanations/excuses for this?

How is it possible that we have the worst balance ever and op skills are getting buffed and then suddenly you guys at anet are like "oh, these skills are overperforming after they were already overperforming and after the buff we made that made it overperform even more. Let's nerf it this time." ???????

The development of gw2 balance is comparable to having a security breach that shows ppl bank information for everyone for 2 years and then after the damage is done the devs be like "oh, we noticed that and we are gonna fix it in the next upcoming patch sometimes during this or next year."

Maybe the game is like this cause if I type anything "Anet offensive" aka negative words/feelings about the game (not sunshine, lollipops, and rainbows or quaggans and whatever nonsense we have in gw2) to this post it gets deleted so the feedback anet gets through the main channel is crippled to the point where these comparable things happen. I suggest rehiring the moderation team or change rules to allow people to express how they feel about the game as long as it's not personal.

I'm not surprised, though I probably should be, that people will complain about things taking too long to be fixed when they get fixed.

That being said, the same feedback has been given for years. There were changes made to how they handle PvP that has put someone who has touched the game competitively in a position of balance influence.

This has nothing to do with the moderation team. All of the feedback about balancing changes that haven't been personally aimed has by and large remained, it was just also largely ignored either by company policy or some other reason up to this point.

[Vagrant.7206]

Yeah, Rampage has been egregious for years now. With a few rare exceptions, its the warrior "I win" button. I play a bruiser engineer build, and I have to burn most of my defenses just to survive it. Usually the warrior can finish me off after if I'm unlucky. Heaven forbid I'm 2v1, because I'm not surviving that.

At least with a damage reduction, it'll be reasonable. The CC will still be phenomenal, making it a fantastic groupfighter. And it will still have use in duels for its CC/survival/mobility potential. But it won't be an instant "I win" button any more.

[Itz Jay.8941]

@BadMed.3846 said:While I agree rampage was overperforming, overall warriors have not been overperforming in any way. There's a lot of other specs that need nerfs more urgently.

Exactly, sure war is a noob stomper especially with rampage being OP cheese mechanic, but in high level play war is much more difficult to play well because everything else is that much better. In high level play it shows that war does not have any utilities really which can turn a fight or help a team mate other than rampage which is on a long CD and really is quite telegraphed and easily avoided when you know how.

The SB elite needs completely deleting, it's not used in any part of the game and is just horrible to use and look out. We need a new shorter CD utility in place which can actually help SB become a part of the team, something similar to featherfoot grace or break enchantments but instead maybe it can be a skill which is telegraphed and can be interrupted. I would also propose that the daze on FC be reduced by at least 50%, it's really stupidly long considering that we can build 25 might fast and can easily one shot with quickness and hundred blades. Then I also think that signet of rage also needs reworking as well to give core warrior the love that it deserve and make it part of the team as well.

I personally do not think that bull's charge should be touched heavily, if anything a reduced knock down duration should be done. I would rather it stay untouched and SB be nerfed in some other way. Bulls charge really is the only good utility tool we have on short CD which can be used in many different ways, it provides good counter play I think.

[Burnfall.9573]

@"Asuran.5469" said:Rampage should get some cc nerfs and not big damage nerfs.

Within the 7 years of guild wars 2 release, what has some nerfs has done to improve guild wars 2 scenery? absolutely none!!

Attacking the root core problems hard than removing it... is what the balance team goal should be focusing on

If Anet balance team follows through with the same mindset in dealing with toxic designs with toxic mechanics, kudos to them

Guild Wars 2 will be restored and will have another chance in becoming a healthy and competitive game

[KryTiKaL.3125]

@Itz Jay.8941 said:

@"BadMed.3846" said:While I agree rampage was overperforming, overall warriors have not been overperforming in any way. There's a lot of other specs that need nerfs more urgently.

Exactly, sure war is a noob stomper especially with rampage being OP cheese mechanic, but in high level play war is much more difficult to play well because everything else is that much better. In high level play it shows that war does not have any utilities really which can turn a fight or help a team mate other than rampage which is on a long CD and really is quite telegraphed and easily avoided when you know how.

The SB elite needs completely deleting, it's not used in any part of the game and is just horrible to use and look out. We need a new shorter CD utility in place which can actually help SB become a part of the team, something similar to featherfoot grace or break enchantments but instead maybe it can be a skill which is telegraphed and can be interrupted. I would also propose that the daze on FC be reduced by at least 50%, it's really stupidly long considering that we can build 25 might fast and can easily one shot with quickness and hundred blades. Then I also think that signet of rage also needs reworking as well to give core warrior the love that it deserve and make it part of the team as well.

I personally do not think that bull's charge should be touched heavily, if anything a reduced knock down duration should be done. I would rather it stay untouched and SB be nerfed in some other way. Bulls charge really is the only good utility tool we have on short CD which can be used in many different ways, it provides good counter play I think.

The Spellbreaker Elite "not being used in any part of the game" isn't actually accurate. Its used in WvW for pushes, its not a terribly useful elite in PvE as you don't really need boon strip in PvE. Signet of Rage could maybe use some looking at, but honestly I think its kind of fine right now. I still prefer to use it over Rampage (unpopular I know).

I don't know where this recent whining over Bull's Charge has come from, but it does need to get dialed back a bit. Its become a complaint point for a lot of people, which I think they don't quite realize the context in which it exists. In terms of relating to other Warrior skills, lets remember that Shield Bash got its cast time nerfed to a 0.75 second cast time because people were complaining about the difficulty of avoiding it when it had a 0.5 second cast time. While Bull's Charge has always had a 1 second cast time plus the time it takes to travel from the point of activation and your target; that gives you essentially a year, from far enough range, to avoid the hit. The evade is relatively new but with the amount of defenses literally every other class has in the game, among offenses like CCs, especially when dealing with ranged classes as a melee, yeah...the evade needs to stay, especially if Thieves and Rangers are going to be keeping the kits that they currently have.

@"Vagrant.7206" said:Yeah, Rampage has been egregious for years now. With a few rare exceptions, its the warrior "I win" button. I play a bruiser engineer build, and I have to burn most of my defenses just to survive it. Usually the warrior can finish me off after if I'm unlucky. Heaven forbid I'm 2v1, because I'm not surviving that.

At least with a damage reduction, it'll be reasonable. The CC will still be phenomenal, making it a fantastic groupfighter. And it will still have use in duels for its CC/survival/mobility potential. But it won't be an instant "I win" button any more.

I wouldn't say its egregious, nor would I classify it as a general "I win" button. Having played Core Warrior against Spellbreakers and such that use Rampage it just becomes a predictable skill when not needing to hold down a point in Conquest. Thats some of where its power derives from, abusing the limited area of capture points. The smaller area makes it harder to avoid boulder, makes it harder to avoid the kick, makes it harder to avoid the AoE stomp, makes it harder to avoid all of its skills. That being said, yeah the damage needs to get toned down for what Rampage should be; CC bot mode.

[Itz Jay.8941]

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@Itz Jay.8941 said:

@"BadMed.3846" said:While I agree rampage was overperforming, overall warriors have not been overperforming in any way. There's a lot of other specs that need nerfs more urgently.

Exactly, sure war is a noob stomper especially with rampage being OP cheese mechanic, but in high level play war is much more difficult to play well because everything else is that much better. In high level play it shows that war does not have any utilities really which can turn a fight or help a team mate other than rampage which is on a long CD and really is quite telegraphed and easily avoided when you know how.

The SB elite needs completely deleting, it's not used in any part of the game and is just horrible to use and look out. We need a new shorter CD utility in place which can actually help SB become a part of the team, something similar to featherfoot grace or break enchantments but instead maybe it can be a skill which is telegraphed and can be interrupted. I would also propose that the daze on FC be reduced by at least 50%, it's really stupidly long considering that we can build 25 might fast and can easily one shot with quickness and hundred blades. Then I also think that signet of rage also needs reworking as well to give core warrior the love that it deserve and make it part of the team as well.

I personally do not think that bull's charge should be touched heavily, if anything a reduced knock down duration should be done. I would rather it stay untouched and SB be nerfed in some other way. Bulls charge really is the only good utility tool we have on short CD which can be used in many different ways, it provides good counter play I think.

The Spellbreaker Elite "not being used in any part of the game" isn't actually accurate. Its used in WvW for pushes, its not a terribly useful elite in PvE as you don't really need boon strip in PvE. Signet of Rage could maybe use some looking at, but honestly I think its kind of fine right now. I still prefer to use it over Rampage (unpopular I know).

I don't know where this recent whining over Bull's Charge has come from, but it does need to get dialed back a bit. Its become a complaint point for a lot of people, which I think they don't quite realize the context in which it exists. In terms of relating to other Warrior skills, lets remember that Shield Bash got its cast time nerfed to a 0.75 second cast time because people were complaining about the difficulty of avoiding it when it had a 0.5 second cast time. While Bull's Charge has

always

had a 1 second cast time

plus

the time it takes to travel from the point of activation and your target; that gives you essentially a year, from far enough range, to avoid the hit. The evade is relatively new but with the amount of defenses literally every other class has in the game, among offenses like CCs, especially when dealing with ranged classes as a melee, yeah...the evade needs to stay, especially if Thieves and Rangers are going to be keeping the kits that they currently have.

@"Vagrant.7206" said:Yeah, Rampage has been egregious for years now. With a few rare exceptions, its the warrior "I win" button. I play a bruiser engineer build, and I have to burn most of my defenses just to survive it. Usually the warrior can finish me off after if I'm unlucky. Heaven forbid I'm 2v1, because I'm not surviving that.

At least with a damage reduction, it'll be reasonable. The CC will still be phenomenal, making it a fantastic groupfighter. And it will still have use in duels for its CC/survival/mobility potential. But it won't be an instant "I win" button any more.

I wouldn't say its egregious, nor would I classify it as a general "I win" button. Having played Core Warrior against Spellbreakers and such that use Rampage it just becomes a predictable skill when not needing to hold down a point in Conquest. Thats some of where its power derives from, abusing the limited area of capture points. The smaller area makes it harder to avoid boulder, makes it harder to avoid the kick, makes it harder to avoid the AoE stomp, makes it harder to avoid all of its skills. That being said, yeah the damage needs to get toned down for what Rampage should be; CC bot mode.

Ah I did never see this in WvW maybe I am sleeping but still I can't see why it can't be reworked, it's not fun or balanced, it's another lazy elite and one hell of an ugly skill, war & sb is lacking a decent elite skill which is why it will never move into a team fighter position instead of being the tanky punisher that it is. Signet of rage has absolutely no utility, it doesn't deserve to be an elite skill at all. So we are left with warrior always having 9 skills. Head butt was a fun skill but idk who in their right mind would play gs on berserker anymore let alone play berserker without gs let alone play war without gs.

The elites do really need reworking for war to become something better..

[Ragnar.4257]

You have to remember just how crazy-OP builds were when they were first launched with HoT and PoF.

Remember when Full-Counter used to hit 5x as hard and have half the cooldown? Remember when FB used to pulse Aegis on ToC #1 & ToC reset on rez? Remember when Scourge used to corrupt twice as many boons and have summon-shade on 1/3rd cooldown? Remember when Death's Judgement was unblockable?

With all that nonsense going on, Rampage doesn't seem that OP.

But now that nonsense is being stripped away, some things that used to be "average" start to become "OP". Its the same as with CI on Mirage. That's how stuff that has been untouched for years "becomes" OP.

Nothing is ever "over-powered" or "under-powered" by themselves in a vacuum. They are only OP or UP in the context of the other stuff around them. If the stuff around them changes, then so does their relative power level, even if they aren't themselves changed at all.

[Lighter.5631]

@KrHome.1920 said:If I had played warrior before I am pretty sure I would have facerolled people since 2012.

lol, clueless talks, 2012 2013 warrior was free kill and the joke was ranger's pet can solo warrior untill they buffed all the passive healings in the world then warrior become a side noder who can only kill people that stand in point and does nothing else with only stances.(excepting shoutbow but DD ele was better in every way) then they buffed rampage/physical so warrior can finally do something in team fights, without rampage warrior is trash tier lol and warrior will never be without rampage because the rest of the elites are worse then trash tier.

i would trade half of all healing for more utilities and option because warrior is nightmare to play in high level like i've been saying since 2014 but hey anet will never listenand people will always complain about warrior hitting 40k in one skill( wouldn't happen if warrior had more skill) or warrior self auto regen is too great that noob player can't kill it( still wouldn't happen if warrior had more active skills and other way of mitigate damage) when the truth is you rarely see any warrior in plat yet they are plagued in gold

[reikken.4961]

@Lighter.5631 said:i would trade half of all healing for more utilities and option because warrior is nightmare to play in high level like i've been saying since 2014 but hey anet will never listenand people will always complain about warrior hitting 40k in one skill( wouldn't happen if warrior had more skill) or warrior self auto regen is too great that noob player can't kill it( still wouldn't happen if warrior had more active skills and other way of mitigate damage) when the truth is you rarely see any warrior in plat yet they are plagued in gold

wait, isn't the top of the leaderboard mostly warrior?

[Tharan.9085]

@reikken.4961 top of the leaderboard is mostly engi and rev