Pistol whip spam thieves

[Avatar.3568]

@Dhemize.8649 said:All you did was provide an example of somebody who got carried to a league (or class) they are not good in. Ok...?

No this was showing, a thief porting to me attacks and has no evade

It wasn't the same weapons or build but shows How effective this attack without evade would be

(absolutely ineffective)

[Curennos.9307]

@Dhemize.8649 said:Imagine, having to potentially pay for not landing an attack on an enemy like any other class.

The skill has a .75sec windup and vuln frames after. The evade is quite justified, especially with the current state of other skills and with how squishy thief is in teamfights.

Also, other classes have skills with evades that are most definitely not conditioned on actually landing the skill. Imagine to actually have to consider class design or learning to deal with extremely predictable attacks with vuln frames.. Oof. Wow. That's a doozy.

Anyway. Removing the evade would require, among other things, enough damage on it to force the thief's opponent to dodge the skill instead of just stunbreaking and blowing the thief up. It'd also have to compensate for that if the evade was removed, the entire weapon set would have effectively no staying power whatsoever (something that already tends to be low on thief builds). s-p#5 is still pretty terrible in an actual fight. I mean, yeah, you can use it out of combat to stack stealth if you run a leap finisher or SB, but...c'mon. A WEAPON skill that's only useful out of combat? wheeze

S-p has pretty solid strengths and weaknesses already. It really has only seen a resurgence with the Swipe CD reduction combined with Acrobatic's Steal CD reduction on evade with a sword. It's at, what, 16 sec and change cooldown now, not counting the recharge trait? Maaaaybe Swipe shouldn't have that quite low of a cooldown.

On the other hand - it really shouldn't take long for people to internalize the cooldown and start to predtice Swipe + Pistol Whip attacks.

[Dhemize.8649]

@Avatar.3568 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:All you did was provide an example of somebody who got carried to a league (or class) they are not good in. Ok...?

No this was showing, a thief porting to me attacks and has no evade

It wasn't the same weapons or build but shows How effective this attack without evade would be

(absolutely ineffective)

......?? Um. I don't think this is making the case you hope it does. This literally provided nothing to your argument.

[Dhemize.8649]

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:Imagine, having to potentially pay for not landing an attack on an enemy like any other class.

The skill has a .75sec windup and vuln frames after. The evade is quite justified, especially with the current state of other skills and with how squishy thief is in teamfights.

Also, other classes have skills with evades that are most definitely not conditioned on actually landing the skill.

Care to elaborate for the necromancer class? Sorry, stopped reading after that as I found it moot.

[Burnfall.9573]

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@"Avatar.3568" said:Than we are in different Plat league's, this video would show you how useful thief without the evade on pw would be

or maybe ranger need a nerf? it's just one shotting thiefs

it's just one shotting design in its entirely be removed

[Avatar.3568]

This video is 2 years old,not sure if it's still Complainable

It should only demonstrate how weak thiefs are and no evade on pw would it make useless

[Dhemize.8649]

@Avatar.3568 said:This video is 2 years old,not sure if it's still Complainable

It should only demonstrate how weak thiefs are and no evade on pw would it make useless

It didn't demonstrate that at all. Hope for the human race has decreased.

[Curennos.9307]

@Dhemize.8649 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:Imagine, having to potentially pay for not landing an attack on an enemy like any other class.

The skill has a .75sec windup and vuln frames after. The evade is quite justified, especially with the current state of other skills and with how squishy thief is in teamfights.

Also, other classes have skills with evades that are most definitely not conditioned on actually landing the skill.

Care to elaborate for the necromancer class? Sorry, stopped reading after that as I found it moot.

Sure. GW2 's class design makes classes more unique/less homogenized than your average MMO. This has resulted in a high health, low-scaling-defenses class that dips in and out of the meta depending on how well it can be supported and how well can it can vomit out damage. Reaper, for example, leans heavily on perma-quickness in shroud form (among other things), and its massive damage output helps secure it a place in the meta...somewhere...despite its shortcomings. However, its class design as a whole is kind of a mess and hasn't really kept up with the game's powercreep as well as other class mechanics. Notably, if you wanted the absolute best class to cherrypick (despite that the person you replied to saying 'other classes' without specifying which) in order to demonstrate your lack of understanding on the differences in how a thief survives and how, say. for example...a necromancer survives, well, necro is definitely your best pick :)

A little mystified as to your 'stopped reading after that', considering the only part you chose to address was the LAST sentence in my reply...O.o Did you just skip the first place and arbitrarily decide to read the last part? I'm curious to know why you felt the need to inform me that you'd stopped reading...at the end of my reply. I assume that's where most everyone stops reading.

SInce you only seem to read the last sentence of a post, though, I'll help you out.

Pistol Whip has a .75 sec windup and vuln frames at the end. The skill is predictable (it's the only threatening dmg skill on the weaponset), punishable twice over, and roots the thief for the duration. Care to elaborate how that somehow isn't potentially paying for...well, everything and then some?

[Dhemize.8649]

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:Imagine, having to potentially pay for not landing an attack on an enemy like any other class.

The skill has a .75sec windup and vuln frames after. The evade is quite justified, especially with the current state of other skills and with how squishy thief is in teamfights.

Also, other classes have skills with evades that are most definitely not conditioned on actually landing the skill.

Care to elaborate for the necromancer class? Sorry, stopped reading after that as I found it moot.

Sure. GW2 's class design makes classes more unique/less homogenized than your average MMO. This has resulted in a high health, low-scaling-defenses class that dips in and out of the meta depending on how well it can be supported and how well can it can vomit out damage. Reaper, for example, leans heavily on perma-quickness in shroud form (among other things), and its massive damage output helps secure it a place in the meta...somewhere...despite its shortcomings. However, its class design as a whole is kind of a mess and hasn't really kept up with the game's powercreep as well as other class mechanics. Notably, if you wanted the absolute best class to cherrypick (despite that the person you replied to saying 'other classes' without specifying which) in order to demonstrate your lack of understanding on the differences in how a thief survives and how, say. for example...a necromancer survives, well, necro is definitely your best pick :)

A little mystified as to your 'stopped reading after that', considering the only part you chose to address was the LAST sentence in my reply...O.o Did you just skip the first place and arbitrarily decide to read the last part? I'm curious to know why you felt the need to inform me that you'd stopped reading...at the end of my reply. I assume that's where most everyone stops reading.

SInce you only seem to read the last sentence of a post, though, I'll help you out.

Pistol Whip has a .75 sec windup and vuln frames at the end. The skill is predictable (it's the only threatening dmg skill on the weaponset), punishable twice over, and roots the thief for the duration. Care to elaborate how that somehow isn't potentially paying for...well, everything and then some?

Soooooo... No evading or invuln mechanism for necromancers? As I thought (and already knew since I friggin main necromancer). And if you were going into detail about classes then you SHOULD already have a firm grasp on how thieves work and how inherently difficult it is to actually kill them before any decent platinum thief can escape to reset the fight. With a class that stacks abilities that focus on perma evades/dodges while attacking and providing conditions (even three dodges that also apply damage), as well as shadowstep abilities, which gets out of the "root" problem you insist is enough reason to promote this sort of garbage, you have a cheese meme class that a majority of the sPvP thieves have taken up. Just the vast majority of a class choosing this specific build speaks volumes as to how even the most basic players can come to rely on this filth to help carry them.

And you had more paragraphs to read, I just skipped them as what I read was already incorrect. I only quoted up to where I read.

[Curennos.9307]

@Dhemize.8649 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:Imagine, having to potentially pay for not landing an attack on an enemy like any other class.

The skill has a .75sec windup and vuln frames after. The evade is quite justified, especially with the current state of other skills and with how squishy thief is in teamfights.

Also, other classes have skills with evades that are most definitely not conditioned on actually landing the skill.

Care to elaborate for the necromancer class? Sorry, stopped reading after that as I found it moot.

Sure. GW2 's class design makes classes more unique/less homogenized than your average MMO. This has resulted in a high health, low-scaling-defenses class that dips in and out of the meta depending on how well it can be supported and how well can it can vomit out damage. Reaper, for example, leans heavily on perma-quickness in shroud form (among other things), and its massive damage output helps secure it a place in the meta...somewhere...despite its shortcomings. However, its class design as a whole is kind of a mess and hasn't really kept up with the game's powercreep as well as other class mechanics. Notably, if you wanted the absolute best class to cherrypick (despite that the person you replied to saying 'other classes' without specifying which) in order to demonstrate your lack of understanding on the differences in how a thief survives and how, say. for example...a necromancer survives, well, necro is definitely your best pick :)

A little mystified as to your 'stopped reading after that', considering the only part you chose to address was the LAST sentence in my reply...O.o Did you just skip the first place and arbitrarily decide to read the last part? I'm curious to know why you felt the need to inform me that you'd stopped reading...at the end of my reply. I assume that's where most everyone stops reading.

SInce you only seem to read the last sentence of a post, though, I'll help you out.

Pistol Whip has a .75 sec windup and vuln frames at the end. The skill is predictable (it's the only threatening dmg skill on the weaponset), punishable twice over, and roots the thief for the duration. Care to elaborate how that somehow isn't potentially paying for...well, everything and then some?

Soooooo... No evading or invuln mechanism for necromancers? As I thought (and already knew since I friggin main necromancer). And if you were going into detail about classes then you SHOULD already have a firm grasp on how thieves work and how inherently difficult it is to actually kill them before any decent platinum thief can escape to reset the fight. With a class that stacks abilities that focus on perma evades/dodges while attacking and providing conditions (even three dodges that also apply damage), as well as shadowstep abilities, which gets out of the "root" problem you insist is enough reason to promote this sort of garbage, you have a cheese meme class that a majority of the sPvP thieves have taken up. Just the vast majority of a class choosing this specific build speaks volumes has to how even the most basic players can come to rely on this filth to help carry them.

And you had more paragraphs to read, I just skipped them as what I read was already incorrect. I only quoted up to where I read.

Still not seeing anything that addresses the whole bit about the pretty hefty windup and all that. But you included that part so I'm pretty sure you read it this time. Why focus in on just that one part about the root? :O I mean, it def sounds OP if that's the only part you look at.

There's no need to take out your hated of anet for neglecting necro for so long on thieves :(

[Burnfall.9573]

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:Imagine, having to potentially pay for not landing an attack on an enemy like any other class.

The skill has a .75sec windup and vuln frames after. The evade is quite justified, especially with the current state of other skills and with how squishy thief is in teamfights.

Also, other classes have skills with evades that are most definitely not conditioned on actually landing the skill.

Care to elaborate for the necromancer class? Sorry, stopped reading after that as I found it moot.

Sure. GW2 's class design makes classes more unique/less homogenized than your average MMO. This has resulted in a high health, low-scaling-defenses class that dips in and out of the meta depending on how well it can be supported and how well can it can vomit out damage. Reaper, for example, leans heavily on perma-quickness in shroud form (among other things), and its massive damage output helps secure it a place in the meta...somewhere...despite its shortcomings.

However, its class design as a whole is kind of a mess

and hasn't really kept up with the game's powercreep as well as other class mechanics. Notably, if you wanted the absolute best class to cherrypick (despite that the person you replied to saying 'other classes' without specifying which) in order to demonstrate your lack of understanding on the differences in how a thief survives and how, say. for example...a necromancer survives, well, necro is definitely your best pick :)

A little mystified as to your 'stopped reading after that', considering the only part you chose to address was the LAST sentence in my reply...O.o Did you just skip the first place and arbitrarily decide to read the last part? I'm curious to know why you felt the need to inform me that you'd stopped reading...at the end of my reply. I assume that's where most everyone stops reading.

SInce you only seem to read the last sentence of a post, though, I'll help you out.

Pistol Whip has a .75 sec windup and vuln frames at the end. The skill is predictable (it's the only threatening dmg skill on the weaponset), punishable twice over, and roots the thief for the duration. Care to elaborate how that somehow isn't potentially paying for...well, everything and then some?

you hit the root cause of Thief Profession Toxicity and i believe the majority agrees with you including myself. Hard Truth is that, it will not change until Anet change and deal with it, resolve it

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Dhemize.8649 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:Imagine, having to potentially pay for not landing an attack on an enemy like any other class.

The skill has a .75sec windup and vuln frames after. The evade is quite justified, especially with the current state of other skills and with how squishy thief is in teamfights.

Also, other classes have skills with evades that are most definitely not conditioned on actually landing the skill.

Care to elaborate for the necromancer class? Sorry, stopped reading after that as I found it moot.

Sure. GW2 's class design makes classes more unique/less homogenized than your average MMO. This has resulted in a high health, low-scaling-defenses class that dips in and out of the meta depending on how well it can be supported and how well can it can vomit out damage. Reaper, for example, leans heavily on perma-quickness in shroud form (among other things), and its massive damage output helps secure it a place in the meta...somewhere...despite its shortcomings. However, its class design as a whole is kind of a mess and hasn't really kept up with the game's powercreep as well as other class mechanics. Notably, if you wanted the absolute best class to cherrypick (despite that the person you replied to saying 'other classes' without specifying which) in order to demonstrate your lack of understanding on the differences in how a thief survives and how, say. for example...a necromancer survives, well, necro is definitely your best pick :)

A little mystified as to your 'stopped reading after that', considering the only part you chose to address was the LAST sentence in my reply...O.o Did you just skip the first place and arbitrarily decide to read the last part? I'm curious to know why you felt the need to inform me that you'd stopped reading...at the end of my reply. I assume that's where most everyone stops reading.

SInce you only seem to read the last sentence of a post, though, I'll help you out.

Pistol Whip has a .75 sec windup and vuln frames at the end. The skill is predictable (it's the only threatening dmg skill on the weaponset), punishable twice over, and roots the thief for the duration. Care to elaborate how that somehow isn't potentially paying for...well, everything and then some?

Soooooo... No evading or invuln mechanism for necromancers? As I thought (and already knew since I friggin main necromancer). And if you were going into detail about classes then you SHOULD already have a firm grasp on how thieves work and how inherently difficult it is to actually kill them before any decent platinum thief can escape to reset the fight. With a class that stacks abilities that focus on perma evades/dodges while attacking and providing conditions (even three dodges that also apply damage), as well as shadowstep abilities, which gets out of the "root" problem you insist is enough reason to promote this sort of garbage, you have a cheese meme class that a majority of the sPvP thieves have taken up. Just the vast majority of a class choosing this specific build speaks volumes as to how even the most basic players can come to rely on this filth to help carry them.

And you had more paragraphs to read, I just skipped them as what I read was already incorrect. I only quoted up to where I read.

Why do you need them btw?

[Dhemize.8649]

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:Imagine, having to potentially pay for not landing an attack on an enemy like any other class.

The skill has a .75sec windup and vuln frames after. The evade is quite justified, especially with the current state of other skills and with how squishy thief is in teamfights.

Also, other classes have skills with evades that are most definitely not conditioned on actually landing the skill.

Care to elaborate for the necromancer class? Sorry, stopped reading after that as I found it moot.

Sure. GW2 's class design makes classes more unique/less homogenized than your average MMO. This has resulted in a high health, low-scaling-defenses class that dips in and out of the meta depending on how well it can be supported and how well can it can vomit out damage. Reaper, for example, leans heavily on perma-quickness in shroud form (among other things), and its massive damage output helps secure it a place in the meta...somewhere...despite its shortcomings. However, its class design as a whole is kind of a mess and hasn't really kept up with the game's powercreep as well as other class mechanics. Notably, if you wanted the absolute best class to cherrypick (despite that the person you replied to saying 'other classes' without specifying which) in order to demonstrate your lack of understanding on the differences in how a thief survives and how, say. for example...a necromancer survives, well, necro is definitely your best pick :)

A little mystified as to your 'stopped reading after that', considering the only part you chose to address was the LAST sentence in my reply...O.o Did you just skip the first place and arbitrarily decide to read the last part? I'm curious to know why you felt the need to inform me that you'd stopped reading...at the end of my reply. I assume that's where most everyone stops reading.

SInce you only seem to read the last sentence of a post, though, I'll help you out.

Pistol Whip has a .75 sec windup and vuln frames at the end. The skill is predictable (it's the only threatening dmg skill on the weaponset), punishable twice over, and roots the thief for the duration. Care to elaborate how that somehow isn't potentially paying for...well, everything and then some?

Soooooo... No evading or invuln mechanism for necromancers? As I thought (and already knew since I friggin main necromancer). And if you were going into detail about classes then you SHOULD already have a firm grasp on how thieves work and how inherently difficult it is to actually kill them before any decent platinum thief can escape to reset the fight. With a class that stacks abilities that focus on perma evades/dodges while attacking and providing conditions (even three dodges that also apply damage), as well as shadowstep abilities, which gets out of the "root" problem you insist is enough reason to promote this sort of garbage, you have a cheese meme class that a majority of the sPvP thieves have taken up. Just the vast majority of a class choosing this specific build speaks volumes has to how even the most basic players can come to rely on this filth to help carry them.

And you had more paragraphs to read, I just skipped them as what I read was already incorrect. I only quoted up to where I read.

Still not seeing anything that addresses the whole bit about the pretty hefty windup and all that. But you included that part so I'm pretty sure you read it this time. Why focus in on just that one part about the root? :O

There's no need to take out your hated of anet for neglecting necro for so long on thieves :(

...?? It's not a "hefty windup" when their target also has abilities that require a "hefty windup". For example, ALL necromancer staff skills require the same .75 the thief does for his spams. Meaning if thief jumps in first, as they usually do, that means he already wins the spam game. GG

I mentioned the part about getting out of the root because you used it as a reason to somehow balance this mess. Wtf?

[Dhemize.8649]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:Imagine, having to potentially pay for not landing an attack on an enemy like any other class.

The skill has a .75sec windup and vuln frames after. The evade is quite justified, especially with the current state of other skills and with how squishy thief is in teamfights.

Also, other classes have skills with evades that are most definitely not conditioned on actually landing the skill.

Care to elaborate for the necromancer class? Sorry, stopped reading after that as I found it moot.

Sure. GW2 's class design makes classes more unique/less homogenized than your average MMO. This has resulted in a high health, low-scaling-defenses class that dips in and out of the meta depending on how well it can be supported and how well can it can vomit out damage. Reaper, for example, leans heavily on perma-quickness in shroud form (among other things), and its massive damage output helps secure it a place in the meta...somewhere...despite its shortcomings. However, its class design as a whole is kind of a mess and hasn't really kept up with the game's powercreep as well as other class mechanics. Notably, if you wanted the absolute best class to cherrypick (despite that the person you replied to saying 'other classes' without specifying which) in order to demonstrate your lack of understanding on the differences in how a thief survives and how, say. for example...a necromancer survives, well, necro is definitely your best pick :)

A little mystified as to your 'stopped reading after that', considering the only part you chose to address was the LAST sentence in my reply...O.o Did you just skip the first place and arbitrarily decide to read the last part? I'm curious to know why you felt the need to inform me that you'd stopped reading...at the end of my reply. I assume that's where most everyone stops reading.

SInce you only seem to read the last sentence of a post, though, I'll help you out.

Pistol Whip has a .75 sec windup and vuln frames at the end. The skill is predictable (it's the only threatening dmg skill on the weaponset), punishable twice over, and roots the thief for the duration. Care to elaborate how that somehow isn't potentially paying for...well, everything and then some?

Soooooo... No evading or invuln mechanism for necromancers? As I thought (and already knew since I friggin main necromancer). And if you were going into detail about classes then you SHOULD already have a firm grasp on how thieves work and how inherently difficult it is to actually kill them before any decent platinum thief can escape to reset the fight. With a class that stacks abilities that focus on perma evades/dodges while attacking and providing conditions (even three dodges that also apply damage), as well as shadowstep abilities, which gets out of the "root" problem you insist is enough reason to promote this sort of garbage, you have a cheese meme class that a majority of the sPvP thieves have taken up. Just the vast majority of a class choosing this specific build speaks volumes as to how even the most basic players can come to rely on this filth to help carry them.

And you had more paragraphs to read, I just skipped them as what I read was already incorrect. I only quoted up to where I read.

Why do you need them btw?

Because if I show a video of a d/d minion master necro getting stomped it means my class needs more free evades. Keep up with meme class, please.

[Burnfall.9573]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:Imagine, having to potentially pay for not landing an attack on an enemy like any other class.

The skill has a .75sec windup and vuln frames after. The evade is quite justified, especially with the current state of other skills and with how squishy thief is in teamfights.

Also, other classes have skills with evades that are most definitely not conditioned on actually landing the skill.

Care to elaborate for the necromancer class? Sorry, stopped reading after that as I found it moot.

Sure. GW2 's class design makes classes more unique/less homogenized than your average MMO. This has resulted in a high health, low-scaling-defenses class that dips in and out of the meta depending on how well it can be supported and how well can it can vomit out damage. Reaper, for example, leans heavily on perma-quickness in shroud form (among other things), and its massive damage output helps secure it a place in the meta...somewhere...despite its shortcomings. However, its class design as a whole is kind of a mess and hasn't really kept up with the game's powercreep as well as other class mechanics. Notably, if you wanted the absolute best class to cherrypick (despite that the person you replied to saying 'other classes' without specifying which) in order to demonstrate your lack of understanding on the differences in how a thief survives and how, say. for example...a necromancer survives, well, necro is definitely your best pick :)

A little mystified as to your 'stopped reading after that', considering the only part you chose to address was the LAST sentence in my reply...O.o Did you just skip the first place and arbitrarily decide to read the last part? I'm curious to know why you felt the need to inform me that you'd stopped reading...at the end of my reply. I assume that's where most everyone stops reading.

SInce you only seem to read the last sentence of a post, though, I'll help you out.

Pistol Whip has a .75 sec windup and vuln frames at the end. The skill is predictable (it's the only threatening dmg skill on the weaponset), punishable twice over, and roots the thief for the duration. Care to elaborate how that somehow isn't potentially paying for...well, everything and then some?

Soooooo... No evading or invuln mechanism for necromancers? As I thought (and already knew since I friggin main necromancer). And if you were going into detail about classes then you SHOULD already have a firm grasp on how thieves work and how inherently difficult it is to actually kill them before any decent platinum thief can escape to reset the fight. With a class that stacks abilities that focus on perma evades/dodges while attacking and providing conditions (even three dodges that also apply damage), as well as shadowstep abilities, which gets out of the "root" problem you insist is enough reason to promote this sort of garbage, you have a cheese meme class that a majority of the sPvP thieves have taken up. Just the vast majority of a class choosing this specific build speaks volumes as to how even the most basic players can come to rely on this filth to help carry them.

And you had more paragraphs to read, I just skipped them as what I read was already incorrect. I only quoted up to where I read.

Why do you need them btw?

Necromancer Profession is -grandfathered-rooted...elder in Guild Wars, we deserve to be valued and feel worthy instead of being pushed around and being at the mercy of others

[Curennos.9307]

@Dhemize.8649 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:Imagine, having to potentially pay for not landing an attack on an enemy like any other class.

The skill has a .75sec windup and vuln frames after. The evade is quite justified, especially with the current state of other skills and with how squishy thief is in teamfights.

Also, other classes have skills with evades that are most definitely not conditioned on actually landing the skill.

Care to elaborate for the necromancer class? Sorry, stopped reading after that as I found it moot.

Sure. GW2 's class design makes classes more unique/less homogenized than your average MMO. This has resulted in a high health, low-scaling-defenses class that dips in and out of the meta depending on how well it can be supported and how well can it can vomit out damage. Reaper, for example, leans heavily on perma-quickness in shroud form (among other things), and its massive damage output helps secure it a place in the meta...somewhere...despite its shortcomings. However, its class design as a whole is kind of a mess and hasn't really kept up with the game's powercreep as well as other class mechanics. Notably, if you wanted the absolute best class to cherrypick (despite that the person you replied to saying 'other classes' without specifying which) in order to demonstrate your lack of understanding on the differences in how a thief survives and how, say. for example...a necromancer survives, well, necro is definitely your best pick :)

A little mystified as to your 'stopped reading after that', considering the only part you chose to address was the LAST sentence in my reply...O.o Did you just skip the first place and arbitrarily decide to read the last part? I'm curious to know why you felt the need to inform me that you'd stopped reading...at the end of my reply. I assume that's where most everyone stops reading.

SInce you only seem to read the last sentence of a post, though, I'll help you out.

Pistol Whip has a .75 sec windup and vuln frames at the end. The skill is predictable (it's the only threatening dmg skill on the weaponset), punishable twice over, and roots the thief for the duration. Care to elaborate how that somehow isn't potentially paying for...well, everything and then some?

Soooooo... No evading or invuln mechanism for necromancers? As I thought (and already knew since I friggin main necromancer). And if you were going into detail about classes then you SHOULD already have a firm grasp on how thieves work and how inherently difficult it is to actually kill them before any decent platinum thief can escape to reset the fight. With a class that stacks abilities that focus on perma evades/dodges while attacking and providing conditions (even three dodges that also apply damage), as well as shadowstep abilities, which gets out of the "root" problem you insist is enough reason to promote this sort of garbage, you have a cheese meme class that a majority of the sPvP thieves have taken up. Just the vast majority of a class choosing this specific build speaks volumes has to how even the most basic players can come to rely on this filth to help carry them.

And you had more paragraphs to read, I just skipped them as what I read was already incorrect. I only quoted up to where I read.

Still not seeing anything that addresses the whole bit about the pretty hefty windup and all that. But you included that part so I'm pretty sure you read it this time. Why focus in on just that one part about the root? :O

There's no need to take out your hated of anet for neglecting necro for so long on thieves :(

...?? It's not a "hefty windup" when their target also has abilities that require a "hefty windup". For example, ALL necromancer staff skills require the same .75 the thief does for his spams. Meaning if thief jumps in first, as they usually do, that means he already wins the spam game. GG

I mentioned the part about getting out of the root because you used it as a reason to somehow balance this mess. kitten?

It's important to put all of the countermeasures together. It really does seem like you're just picking out certain parts as if I'm using one single thing to justify everything else, which certainly isn't the case. There are multiple things.

Do you play scourge? Is your perspective on this mostly from the PoV of a necro?

I can't really help you with anything specific unless I know what hypothetical build you're going to be running here, and I'm not really interested in getting into a hypothetical discussion on potential skill level, reaction time, ping, and all that that will most likely boil down to either 'why is the necro not at the teamfight', 'you got +1'd/focused', or 'why does your plan of action go exactly contrary to what you know is going to happen'. I've mostly played reaper, which gives me the glorious counterplay of shroud -> Terrify -> spin like a gambling addict.

Also, I'm pretty sure Pistol Whip has some vuln frames after the evade finishes, too. Unless ofc they burn a dodge right out of it, but getting thieves to burn dodges is good. THis is what I'm getting at here. There are multiple - accessible - opportunities for counterplay.

It's also important to note that .75 is a hefty windup - for a thief. Ofc you're not gonna be able to immediately blow them up if they get the jump on you.

[verskore.4312]

@Avatar.3568 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:Imagine, having to potentially pay for not landing an attack on an enemy like any other class.

Maybe you did not get it, but he can not walk while he is doing this skill

If you make a backstep, he will not hit you, but if he has no evade he dies in less than 1 sec

you just reinvented the 'JuSt DoDgE' meme, instead 'JuSt BaCkStEp'. Don't you see how silly you sound?PW thief is just completely broken cus of a number of things;

• short evade on pw
  • stun on demand with pw
  • sword 2 which gives spammable teleports (imo biggest issue)
  • short CD swipe (by itself fine cus of low range)
  • daze on demand with s/p 4
  • if everything goes wrong -> just daggerstorm
  • 3 evadesUsing all these skills in quick succession is ofc not possible but given the amount of base initiative the build gives and the amount of initiative you gain by evading or using certain utilities it makes this build very spammable.

Counting all this together with shadowstep and SB 5 it gives s/p thief absolutely ridiculous mobility to the extend it can easily keep 2 to 3 players busy and getting out alive, crazy cc with all the dazes and stuns and decent damage with pw itself. All of this to the point where it could win pretty much any 1v1 matchup if played well and should things go wrong there are so many options to give you a free ticket out of harms way. Not a single class other than thief has all of this potential!

Now im not saying it's brainless (probably is in lower tier but not in higher) but played correctly (which sindrener has undoubtedly shown us) it's incredibly strong to the extend is has very little to no counter play. In other words, nerfing certain aspects or a redesign is imo very justified.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Dhemize.8649 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:Imagine, having to potentially pay for not landing an attack on an enemy like any other class.

The skill has a .75sec windup and vuln frames after. The evade is quite justified, especially with the current state of other skills and with how squishy thief is in teamfights.

Also, other classes have skills with evades that are most definitely not conditioned on actually landing the skill.

Care to elaborate for the necromancer class? Sorry, stopped reading after that as I found it moot.

Sure. GW2 's class design makes classes more unique/less homogenized than your average MMO. This has resulted in a high health, low-scaling-defenses class that dips in and out of the meta depending on how well it can be supported and how well can it can vomit out damage. Reaper, for example, leans heavily on perma-quickness in shroud form (among other things), and its massive damage output helps secure it a place in the meta...somewhere...despite its shortcomings. However, its class design as a whole is kind of a mess and hasn't really kept up with the game's powercreep as well as other class mechanics. Notably, if you wanted the absolute best class to cherrypick (despite that the person you replied to saying 'other classes' without specifying which) in order to demonstrate your lack of understanding on the differences in how a thief survives and how, say. for example...a necromancer survives, well, necro is definitely your best pick :)

A little mystified as to your 'stopped reading after that', considering the only part you chose to address was the LAST sentence in my reply...O.o Did you just skip the first place and arbitrarily decide to read the last part? I'm curious to know why you felt the need to inform me that you'd stopped reading...at the end of my reply. I assume that's where most everyone stops reading.

SInce you only seem to read the last sentence of a post, though, I'll help you out.

Pistol Whip has a .75 sec windup and vuln frames at the end. The skill is predictable (it's the only threatening dmg skill on the weaponset), punishable twice over, and roots the thief for the duration. Care to elaborate how that somehow isn't potentially paying for...well, everything and then some?

Soooooo... No evading or invuln mechanism for necromancers? As I thought (and already knew since I friggin main necromancer). And if you were going into detail about classes then you SHOULD already have a firm grasp on how thieves work and how inherently difficult it is to actually kill them before any decent platinum thief can escape to reset the fight. With a class that stacks abilities that focus on perma evades/dodges while attacking and providing conditions (even three dodges that also apply damage), as well as shadowstep abilities, which gets out of the "root" problem you insist is enough reason to promote this sort of garbage, you have a cheese meme class that a majority of the sPvP thieves have taken up. Just the vast majority of a class choosing this specific build speaks volumes as to how even the most basic players can come to rely on this filth to help carry them.

And you had more paragraphs to read, I just skipped them as what I read was already incorrect. I only quoted up to where I read.

Why do you need them btw?

Because if I show a video of a d/d minion master necro getting stomped it means my class needs more free evades. Keep up with meme class, please.

Pretty sure thief is meant to be alone most of the time that's why they get that many evades (no protection/ 1 stability skill).

Nec is a team fighter so they require proper support, that's why they are prime target unlike theif that can port out/evade spam.

Anyway let's say theif + firebrand vs nec + firebrand over a node. Pretty sure with all them evades the theif has, that team would still lose the node in thos match ups.

[Asuran.5469]

It's real simple: No attack should ever be a hard CC, with an evade on it, that has extreme damage output, and is spammable 100% uptime.

The most problematic aspect of this build is that when you go to bait the thief into damage when you know he's going to teleport in, you can't. The pistol whip stuns you before anything you do lands. Then if you move backwards to counter play the pistol whip and try to counter strike, he has evade so you can't. Then the thief disappears again during any phase of vulnerability and comes back to reengage you when he knows he's safe to do so. Over time it dwindles you down, you lose, and there isn't anything you can about it. Well, most builds in the game right now actually can't do anything about this thief build. It just gets to win because it's a pistol whip thief.

The best example I can give as to how over powered and too utilitized this build is, is a few days ago when an AT team I was on almost beat Team USA. Two or three players on my team were using pistol whip thieves, and they were just shutting down Team USA members. We were leading Team USA in point value up until about 300 points. then Team USA swapped characters and brought in 2 pistol whip thieves and a herald, and then came back and beat us in the end. This is not something that normally would ever happen, but that pistol whip spam build is so strong, that if decent players are wielding it against great players, the decent players will beat the great players if the great player aren't wielding it themselves. That's way too much inherent class/build strength.

Pvp skill split suggestions:

1. Remove the evade frame from pistol whip.
2. Or remove the stun. No, I don't mean turn stun into daze, I mean remove the CC entirely if the evade frame is to stay.

[Sindrener.1592]

@Asuran.5469 said:It's real simple: No attack should ever be a hard CC, with an evade on it, that has extreme damage output, and is spammable 100% uptime.

The most problematic aspect of this build is that when you go to bait the thief into damage when you know he's going to teleport in, you can't. The pistol whip stuns you before anything you do lands. Then if you move backwards to counter play the pistol whip and try to counter strike, he has evade so you can't. Then the thief disappears again during any phase of vulnerability and comes back to reengage you when he knows he's safe to do so. Over time it dwindles you down, you lose, and there isn't anything you can about it. Well, most builds in the game right now actually can't do anything about this thief build. It just gets to win because it's a pistol whip thief.

The best example I can give as to how over powered and too utilitized this build is, is a few days ago when an AT team I was on almost beat Team USA. Two or three players on my team were using pistol whip thieves, and they were just shutting down Team USA members. We were leading Team USA in point value up until about 300 points. then Team USA swapped characters and brought in 2 pistol whip thieves and a herald, and then came back and beat us in the end. This is not something that normally would ever happen, but that pistol whip spam build is so strong, that if decent players are wielding it against great players, the decent players will beat the great players if the great player aren't wielding it themselves. That's way too much inherent class/build strength.

Pvp skill split suggestions:

1. Remove the evade frame from pistol whip.
2. Or remove the stun. No, I don't mean turn stun into daze, I mean remove the CC entirely if the evade frame is to stay.

But @dantheman said u just walk out of it? U mean team usa bad players now?

And so did shadowfall the amazing mesmer player.

Just love this whole thing, some of u say its absolute trash

Meanwhile some of u say its broken

????

Keep the memes coming

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

This is hilarious. Why all of the sudden this build's gained popularity nowadays? Did they change something?Or is it because some boy posted a video on stream again? :D

[ZDragon.3046]

@"Burnfall.9573" said:Necromancer Profession is -grandfathered-rooted...elder in Guild Wars, we deserve to be valued and feel worthy instead of being pushed around and being at the mercy of others

This prob wont ever change tbhThief has the advantage over necro in most (if not every) build match up no matter how you look at it.Necro is also one of the few professions where spamming pistolwhip can instantly screw them over because they only have 2 dodges, no extra evade or i frames, and chase potential when thief uses sword 2 to get away is not good because low mobility. Its probably the only profession thats just a free kill (assuming the thief has any exp)

Its also one of the few professions where you cant just walk away from pistolwhip spam because of the low mobility. PW's hit box is bigger than people give it credit for trust me ive tried "walking away from it" and it almost never works if you just walk you will get hit by at least 2 pistol-whips possibly 3. As i said 2 pages back feels bad man but im not suggesting anything ill just let anet handle it.

The game in general is just sick in terms of how pvp is played right now and im ready for anet to rework it as a whole with the big patch not these small balance changes that just encourage people to play whats busted or cheese at the moment.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Asuran.5469 said:It's real simple: No attack should ever be a hard CC, with an evade on it, that has extreme damage output, and is spammable 100% uptime.

The most problematic aspect of this build is that when you go to bait the thief into damage when you know he's going to teleport in, you can't. The pistol whip stuns you before anything you do lands. Then if you move backwards to counter play the pistol whip and try to counter strike, he has evade so you can't. Then the thief disappears again during any phase of vulnerability and comes back to reengage you when he knows he's safe to do so. Over time it dwindles you down, you lose, and there isn't anything you can about it. Well, most builds in the game right now actually can't do anything about this thief build. It just gets to win because it's a pistol whip thief.

The best example I can give as to how over powered and too utilitized this build is, is a few days ago when an AT team I was on almost beat Team USA. Two or three players on my team were using pistol whip thieves, and they were just shutting down Team USA members. We were leading Team USA in point value up until about 300 points. then Team USA swapped characters and brought in 2 pistol whip thieves and a herald, and then came back and beat us in the end. This is not something that normally would ever happen, but that pistol whip spam build is so strong, that if decent players are wielding it against great players, the decent players will beat the great players if the great player aren't wielding it themselves. That's way too much inherent class/build strength.

Pvp skill split suggestions:

1. Remove the evade frame from pistol whip.
2. Or remove the stun. No, I don't mean turn stun into daze, I mean remove the CC entirely if the evade frame is to stay.

I would up the Ini cost if the STUN portion of ability doesnt land, it costs 5. Make it cost 6-7 and refund 1-2 if the stun/first hit of the chain connects.That way you could MB even up the damage of the skill. What is annoy is that when I duel whop boys I can avoid half or more of the whips but each time they land its 1/4-1/3 HP gone and over time you just die, they dont becouse evade = +450hp

[Burnfall.9573]

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@"Burnfall.9573" said:Necromancer Profession is -grandfathered-rooted...elder in Guild Wars, we deserve to be valued and feel worthy instead of being pushed around and being at the mercy of others

This prob wont ever change tbhThief has the advantage over necro in most (if not every) build match up no matter how you look at it.Necro is also one of the few professions where spamming pistolwhip can instantly screw them over because they only have 2 dodges, no extra evade or i frames, and chase potential when thief uses sword 2 to get away is not good because low mobility. Its probably the only profession thats just a free kill

(assuming the thief has any exp)

Its also one of the few professions where you cant just walk away from pistolwhip spam because of the low mobility. PW's hit box is bigger than people give it credit for trust me ive tried "walking away from it" and it almost never works if you just walk you will get hit by at least 2 pistol-whips possibly 3. As i said 2 pages back

feels bad man

but im not suggesting anything ill just let anet handle it.

The game in general is just sick in terms of how pvp is played right now and im ready for anet to rework it as a whole with the big patch not these small balance changes that just encourage people to play whats busted or cheese at the moment.

+10

ZDragon, i completely agree with you and i also do want a complete rework for Necromancer Profession: we deserve it.

[Dhemize.8649]

It'll change if there's enough people pointing out how absurd the build is, which it looks like there's pleeeenty of in this thread alone. Can't wait for when they remove the evade (since it's not in the tooltip) and these thief bois walk in thinking it's an easy spam kill and get dunked instead.