Permanently Delete Arcane Thievery

[apharma.3741]

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"Stand The Wall.6987" said:the poster child of power creep.

Looks more like that devs are throwing random stuff than actually have something in mind wich is the overall situation of the game...

That's actually what they did.

So way back when mimic actually would catch skills, yes, there was a mesmer skill that would catch a skill and send it back. There was arcane thievery which would transfer 3 conditions and steal 3 boons which was OK because boon and condition spam was greatly reduced so realistically that was 2 of each max and even then either the boons or the conditions were not very good.

One small flaw, like many mesmer skills it couldn't hit a crippled dolyak limping it's way to bay. This meant that no-one would use it and ANet being ANet, they see a skill no-one uses and starts trying to get people to use it, they reduce it's cool down, I believe they reduced the cast (it still has the massive after cast OMEGALUL) at some point and then finally they listened and fixed it missing the dolyak....except it still missed players half the time.

This is when they added quickness and slow, so that even when it misses the transfer you still get quickness and I believe the enemy gets slow. If you actually use the skill with any frequency and pay attention you can see it doesn't work a lot of the time for no other reason than you rolled a 4 but it also has issues hitting in general.

Edit: What's the point of story time with apharma? It's a really buggy skill that needs fixing and didn't "need" quickness and slow adding.

[viquing.8254]

@Poelala.2830 said:That’s the whole post.

Yeah, change it with bullcharge, thanks !

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@mortrialus.3062 said:Odds are this thread is made by a Fire Weaver who got his 10 stacks of burning thrown back in his face.

Quiet chuckling in the corner

@azzardome.9184 said:Think about it, mes utilites are utter garbage compared to other classes and what they used to be.

More chuckling

[Trigr.6481]

I'm not surprised as more people leave the game, the average player skill drops as well, leading to posts like this which stem from a fundamental understanding of how to play. With people calling for nerfs, without even arguing why, regardless if they're wrong or right. It can't possibly be me, it must be "Insert Forum Thread Nerf". It's like the equivalent to a small poodle barking at air.

[Poelala.2830]

@"Trigr.6481" said:I'm not surprised as more people leave the game, the average player skill drops as well, leading to posts like this which stem from a fundamental understanding of how to play. With people calling for nerfs, without even arguing why, regardless if they're wrong or right. It can't possibly be me, it must be "Insert Forum Thread Nerf". It's like the equivalent to a small poodle barking at air.

Reason why is it has no tell and it has too much utility at such a short cool down and such a long range.

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

@Poelala.2830 said:

@"Trigr.6481" said:I'm not surprised as more people leave the game, the average player skill drops as well, leading to posts like this which stem from a fundamental understanding of how to play. With people calling for nerfs, without even arguing why, regardless if they're wrong or right. It can't possibly be me, it must be "Insert Forum Thread Nerf". It's like the equivalent to a small poodle barking at air.

Reason why is it has no tell and it has too much utility at such a short cool down and such a long range.

So what would you give back in exchange for deleting one of the meta build's few sources of cleanse? To propose such a blanket nerf, surely you've played the build and determined that which you want removed is objectively over powered and removal would not render it unviable. Right?

[Poelala.2830]

@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

@Poelala.2830 said:

@"Trigr.6481" said:I'm not surprised as more people leave the game, the average player skill drops as well, leading to posts like this which stem from a fundamental understanding of how to play. With people calling for nerfs, without even arguing why, regardless if they're wrong or right. It can't possibly be me, it must be "Insert Forum Thread Nerf". It's like the equivalent to a small poodle barking at air.

Reason why is it has no tell and it has too much utility at such a short cool down and such a long range.

So what would you give back in exchange for deleting one of the meta build's few sources of cleanse? To propose such a blanket nerf, surely you've played the build and determined that which you want removed is objectively over powered and removal would not render it unviable. Right?

I don’t think Mesmer needs a replacement. Having weaknesses is good for balance.

[Hot Boy.7138]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:I'm fine with condi removals being instant/almost instant cast but unblockable boon strips should really have a 1/2 second cast time and visible animation to them. I totally understand the need for boon removal but stuff like Arcane Thievery and Corrupt Boon are pretty easy to use considering how impactful they are.

There's no way to really reactively dodge these skills and considering the latter is a hard CC when corrupting stability, it's no better than any other instant/almost instant cast hard CC.

I would agree if stealing boons mattered, whats the point of stealing anything from anyone if every meta build has 100% uptime at every build in the game.if i go to trouble of stealing prot retal and vigor and oponent just gets it back then whats the kitten point other then glorified RNG boon generation that gets dodged or just bugs out. The only thing its really good at is punishing weaver/other mirage/burnguard/corenecro when they go too trigger happy with condis and get hit with NO YOU button.

Stealing stability always matters.

true, but then again. the only mesmer that runs it ( cmirage ) has kitten CC.

It never leaves my bar as a power mirage. I just use it as a cleanse. since the transferred conditions/boons uses my own stats.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Hot Boy.7138 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:I'm fine with condi removals being instant/almost instant cast but unblockable boon strips should really have a 1/2 second cast time and visible animation to them. I totally understand the need for boon removal but stuff like Arcane Thievery and Corrupt Boon are pretty easy to use considering how impactful they are.

There's no way to really reactively dodge these skills and considering the latter is a hard CC when corrupting stability, it's no better than any other instant/almost instant cast hard CC.

I would agree if stealing boons mattered, whats the point of stealing anything from anyone if every meta build has 100% uptime at every build in the game.if i go to trouble of stealing prot retal and vigor and oponent just gets it back then whats the kitten point other then glorified RNG boon generation that gets dodged or just bugs out. The only thing its really good at is punishing weaver/other mirage/burnguard/corenecro when they go too trigger happy with condis and get hit with NO YOU button.

Stealing stability always matters.

true, but then again. the only mesmer that runs it ( cmirage ) has kitten CC.

It never leaves my bar as a power mirage. I just use it as a cleanse. since the transferred conditions/boons uses my own stats.

this is why its better for condi, its condi cleanse that deals good damage since you throw junk back at people, its the only way to actually beat fire weaver as cmirage, they have to get overeager and eat the fire.for pmirage I would take mantra over it since its more reliable, its more of a quickness vs reliability of use.

[Hot Boy.7138]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Hot Boy.7138 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:I'm fine with condi removals being instant/almost instant cast but unblockable boon strips should really have a 1/2 second cast time and visible animation to them. I totally understand the need for boon removal but stuff like Arcane Thievery and Corrupt Boon are pretty easy to use considering how impactful they are.

There's no way to really reactively dodge these skills and considering the latter is a hard CC when corrupting stability, it's no better than any other instant/almost instant cast hard CC.

I would agree if stealing boons mattered, whats the point of stealing anything from anyone if every meta build has 100% uptime at every build in the game.if i go to trouble of stealing prot retal and vigor and oponent just gets it back then whats the kitten point other then glorified RNG boon generation that gets dodged or just bugs out. The only thing its really good at is punishing weaver/other mirage/burnguard/corenecro when they go too trigger happy with condis and get hit with NO YOU button.

Stealing stability always matters.

true, but then again. the only mesmer that runs it ( cmirage ) has kitten CC.

It never leaves my bar as a power mirage. I just use it as a cleanse. since the transferred conditions/boons uses my own stats.

this is why its better for condi, its condi cleanse that deals good damage since you throw junk back at people, its the only way to actually beat fire weaver as cmirage, they have to get overeager and eat the fire.for pmirage I would take mantra over it since its more reliable, its more of a quickness vs reliability of use.

i've been advocating for condi and boon transfers to use the intial caster's stats so that skills like this could benefit more builds than just condi builds. It does benefit me, but it's such a small benefit compared to condition builds.

[Arheundel.6451]

@Hesione.9412 said:Because the mesmer class hasn't had enough nerfs already. :/

They never nerf the real issues....like never, like with mirage, they nerfed elusive mind and chaotic interruption instead than Infinite Horizon which has always been the main issue with mirage, mindblowing design where you allow clones to apply main mechanic of the elite...

[Vagrant.7206]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Hesione.9412 said:Because the mesmer class hasn't had enough nerfs already. :/

They never nerf the real issues....

like never

, like with mirage, they nerfed elusive mind instead and chaotic interruption instead than

Infinite Horizon

which has always been the main issue with mirage, mindblowing design where you allow clones to apply main mechanic of the elite...

The problem with mirage was much more fundamental to its design than those traits.

[XECOR.2814]

@shadowpass.4236 said:I'm fine with condi removals being instant/almost instant cast but unblockable boon strips should really have a 1/2 second cast time and visible animation to them. I totally understand the need for boon removal but stuff like Arcane Thievery and Corrupt Boon are pretty easy to use considering how impactful they are.

There's no way to really reactively dodge these skills and considering the latter is a hard CC when corrupting stability, it's no better than any other instant/almost instant cast hard CC.

Please kill necro more. We are not dead yet.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Poelala.2830 said:Reason why is it has no tell and it has too much utility at such a short cool down and such a long range.

Back before Spectral Walk was ridiculously powercrept to cleanse 6 conditions, Scourges were largely running Plague Signet which would instantly and with absolutely no tell throw 5 conditions from the necromancer onto the target. Only a slightly longer cooldown, 30s vs 24s.

[Poelala.2830]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Poelala.2830 said:Reason why is it has no tell and it has too much utility at such a short cool down and such a long range.

Back before Spectral Walk was ridiculously powercrept to cleanse 6 conditions, Scourges were largely running Plague Signet which would instantly and with absolutely no tell throw 5 conditions from the necromancer onto the target. Only a slightly longer cooldown, 30s vs 24s.

Right and this is no longer a problem. Delete AT

[Hesione.9412]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Hesione.9412 said:Because the mesmer class hasn't had enough nerfs already. :/

They never nerf the real issues....

like never

, like with mirage, they nerfed elusive mind and chaotic interruption instead than

Infinite Horizon

which has always been the main issue with mirage, mindblowing design where you allow clones to apply main mechanic of the elite...

I'm trying to work out what their next nerf to Signet of Inspiration will be.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Hesione.9412 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Hesione.9412 said:Because the mesmer class hasn't had enough nerfs already. :/

They never nerf the real issues....

like never

, like with mirage, they nerfed elusive mind and chaotic interruption instead than

Infinite Horizon

which has always been the main issue with mirage, mindblowing design where you allow clones to apply main mechanic of the elite...

I'm trying to work out what their next nerf to Signet of Inspiration will be.

dont touch my underwater 50% swiftness uptime

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

Was there a reason to give this skill quickness and slow as well as it's original toolip

[Bossun.2046]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"Stand The Wall.6987" said:the poster child of power creep.

mostly bug fixes and bufss xd

it needs to be seriously nerfed :/

[mortrialus.3062]

@Poelala.2830 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Poelala.2830 said:Reason why is it has no tell and it has too much utility at such a short cool down and such a long range.

Back before Spectral Walk was ridiculously powercrept to cleanse 6 conditions, Scourges were largely running Plague Signet which would instantly and with absolutely no tell throw 5 conditions from the necromancer onto the target. Only a slightly longer cooldown, 30s vs 24s.

Right and this is no longer a problem. Delete AT

It'll be a problem again if Spectral Walk gets it's power creep reversed of if the meta becomes truly condi heavy.

[Poelala.2830]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Poelala.2830 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Poelala.2830 said:Reason why is it has no tell and it has too much utility at such a short cool down and such a long range.

Back before Spectral Walk was ridiculously powercrept to cleanse 6 conditions, Scourges were largely running Plague Signet which would instantly and with absolutely no tell throw 5 conditions from the necromancer onto the target. Only a slightly longer cooldown, 30s vs 24s.

Right and this is no longer a problem. Delete AT

It'll be a problem again if Spectral Walk gets it's power creep reversed of if the meta becomes truly condi heavy.

And earth staff core ele will be a problem if they make a trait where ele is invuln every time she swaps to earth.

Hypothetical statements aren’t arguments.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Poelala.2830 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Poelala.2830 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Poelala.2830 said:Reason why is it has no tell and it has too much utility at such a short cool down and such a long range.

Back before Spectral Walk was ridiculously powercrept to cleanse 6 conditions, Scourges were largely running Plague Signet which would instantly and with absolutely no tell throw 5 conditions from the necromancer onto the target. Only a slightly longer cooldown, 30s vs 24s.

Right and this is no longer a problem. Delete AT

It'll be a problem again if Spectral Walk gets it's power creep reversed of if the meta becomes truly condi heavy.

And earth staff core ele will be a problem if they make a trait where ele is invuln every time she swaps to earth.

Hypothetical statements aren’t arguments.

Plague signet still exists and still instantly applies 5 conditions from the necromancer and ignores blind. This isn't a "what if". It's seen historical META use, it's still in the game, it'll see use again. This is a direct comparison between existing class capabilities.

[Poelala.2830]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Poelala.2830 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Poelala.2830 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Poelala.2830 said:Reason why is it has no tell and it has too much utility at such a short cool down and such a long range.

Back before Spectral Walk was ridiculously powercrept to cleanse 6 conditions, Scourges were largely running Plague Signet which would instantly and with absolutely no tell throw 5 conditions from the necromancer onto the target. Only a slightly longer cooldown, 30s vs 24s.

Right and this is no longer a problem. Delete AT

It'll be a problem again if Spectral Walk gets it's power creep reversed of if the meta becomes truly condi heavy.

And earth staff core ele will be a problem if they make a trait where ele is invuln every time she swaps to earth.

Hypothetical statements aren’t arguments.

Plague signet still exists and still instantly applies 5 conditions from the necromancer and ignores blind. This isn't a "what if". It's seen historical META use, it's still in the game, it'll see use again. This is a direct comparison between existing class capabilities.

Whether these two exist or not is irrelevant because your argument is about potential abuse. AT is being abused, plague signet is not.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Poelala.2830 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Poelala.2830 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Poelala.2830 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Poelala.2830 said:Reason why is it has no tell and it has too much utility at such a short cool down and such a long range.

Back before Spectral Walk was ridiculously powercrept to cleanse 6 conditions, Scourges were largely running Plague Signet which would instantly and with absolutely no tell throw 5 conditions from the necromancer onto the target. Only a slightly longer cooldown, 30s vs 24s.

Right and this is no longer a problem. Delete AT

It'll be a problem again if Spectral Walk gets it's power creep reversed of if the meta becomes truly condi heavy.

And earth staff core ele will be a problem if they make a trait where ele is invuln every time she swaps to earth.

Hypothetical statements aren’t arguments.

Plague signet still exists and still instantly applies 5 conditions from the necromancer and ignores blind. This isn't a "what if". It's seen historical META use, it's still in the game, it'll see use again. This is a direct comparison between existing class capabilities.

Whether these two exist or not is irrelevant because your argument is about potential abuse. AT is being abused, plague signet is not.

AT isn't be abused. It does exactly what it's supposed to. Abuse would be daredevils jumping with Staff 3 keeping them inplace allowing them to evade without moving away from the node.

[shadowpass.4236]

@XECOR.2814 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:I'm fine with condi removals being instant/almost instant cast but unblockable boon strips should really have a 1/2 second cast time and visible animation to them. I totally understand the need for boon removal but stuff like Arcane Thievery and Corrupt Boon are pretty easy to use considering how impactful they are.

There's no way to really reactively dodge these skills and considering the latter is a hard CC when corrupting stability, it's no better than any other instant/almost instant cast hard CC.

Please kill necro more. We are not dead yet.

Necro is one of the stronger classes if you know how to play it correctly. It's been in almost 100% of the metas since launch. Proper boon corrupts will result in kills. For example, corrupting stability into fear and chaining CCs + damage along with your other allies can take down a lot of classes.

Also, 1/2s cast time and a visible animation is still very fast. The enemy will need to react quickly or they will still get hit by the corrupt.