inequality of classes :)

[okey MATMAZEL.7512]

Hello, easy come all.I have some complaints about the inequality of the characters in the game. I have been playing thief for 3 years and the character I enjoy the most is thief. Unfortunately, thief is quite behind compared to all other characters. For example ;Ranger can wear a longbow and do things from afar without much difficulty. But thief cannot sufficiently damage the shortbow or other ranged weapons.As if Necromancer did not suffer enough damage, there are also cc skills. Since it is a soul form, it can obtain twice the hit points. But thieves' hit points are far behind.Warriors have very high critical score and damage. Engineers have useful skills. The buffs given by the guards are not calculated. Likewise in revenant and elementalists. In other words, all the characters except for thief have some way of doing damage and not taking damage. In thiefs, the main ability to deal damage is invisibility. To be invisible, either the shadow refuge skill or the cloak and dagger skill are the main skills. Shadow refuge ability is as short as 10 seconds. Cloak and dagger must deal damage to the target for it to function. It also spends 5 initiatives. Let's say we are invisible; The range of the Backstab ability and the ability that comes with other invisibility is very, very short and easily failed. Shadow Arts , critical arts and trickery builds are separate and it's very difficult to have them separately. My request from you, please improve your thief skills. For example ; The range of the backstab skill may increase. Cloak and Dagger can also be invisible without damaging the target. At least increase the initiative he spent, but please bring this feature. These are just some of my thoughts. Yours sincerely as head of a thief lovers association :)

[Pirogen.9561]

PvE or PvP?

[maddoctor.2738]

@cargar.7148 said:Hello, easy come all.I have some complaints about the inequality of the characters in the game. I have been playing thief for 3 years and the character I enjoy the most is thief. Unfortunately, thief is quite behind compared to all other characters. For example ;Ranger can wear a longbow and do things from afar without much difficulty. But thief cannot sufficiently damage the shortbow or other ranged weapons.As if Necromancer did not suffer enough damage, there are also cc skills. Since it is a soul form, it can obtain twice the hit points. But thieves' hit points are far behind.Warriors have very high critical score and damage. Engineers have useful skills. The buffs given by the guards are not calculated. Likewise in revenant and elementalists. In other words, all the characters except for thief have some way of doing damage and not taking damage. In thiefs, the main ability to deal damage is invisibility. To be invisible, either the shadow refuge skill or the cloak and dagger skill are the main skills. Shadow refuge ability is as short as 10 seconds. Cloak and dagger must deal damage to the target for it to function. It also spends 5 initiatives. Let's say we are invisible; The range of the Backstab ability and the ability that comes with other invisibility is very, very short and easily failed. Shadow Arts , critical arts and trickery builds are separate and it's very difficult to have them separately. My request from you, please improve your thief skills. For example ; The range of the backstab skill may increase. Cloak and Dagger can also be invisible without damaging the target. At least increase the initiative he spent, but please bring this feature. These are just some of my thoughts. Yours sincerely as head of a thief lovers association :)

Assuming PVE:A Thief has a lot of modifiers for critical hit chance and damage. They also have relatively easy access to Fury, further boosting critical chance.If you want ranged damage, use a Deadeye with a Rifle. If you don't want to rely on stealth use a Daredevil and focus on dodging instead. If you want to be unkillable use Invigorating Precision and Sword/Pistol

Assuming PVP:wha?

[okey MATMAZEL.7512]

in both PvP and PvE...

[okey MATMAZEL.7512]

fury and easy access? is it a joke? I'm talking about thief not druid :)PvP ;The range of the backstab is rather short. I think it is very wrong to direct players to weapons other than daggers / daggers.

[Westenev.5289]

As a thief main, I disagree. Pistol/Pistol and Staff + Invigorating Precision should faceroll though most PvE content by pressing one button, with shortbow providing strong utility (cc on poison field, shadow steps, blast finisher). Bas Venom is also a strong cc hardcarry utility, while Thieves Guild is a good selfish alternitive.

We have stealth, mobility and group portals - basically an alternitive mesmer.

That said, other weapons feel kinda weak or bad. But that problem isn't exclusive to thief.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

@cargar.7148 said:fury and easy access? is it a joke? I'm talking about thief not druid :)PvP ;The range of the backstab is rather short. I think it is very wrong to direct players to weapons other than daggers / daggers.

Critical strike traitline. DE fire for effect. Trickery thrill of the crime. If you are solo you dont really need to be meta dps builds that rely on others for boons.There is a lot more to pvp thief than trying to pull off backstabs. Most pvp builds dont use dagger mainhand.

[okey MATMAZEL.7512]

that's exactly the problem. Why is the dagger weak in the main weapon?

[maddoctor.2738]

@"cargar.7148" said:fury and easy access? is it a joke? I'm talking about thief not druid :)

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Thrill_of_the_Crimehttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unrelenting_Strikeshttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/No_Quarter

Permanent Fury.

The range of the backstab is rather short. I think it is very wrong to direct players to weapons other than daggers / daggers.

Dagger / Dagger PVE builds:https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Deadeye_-_Power_DPS_D/D_(Fractal)https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Deadeye_-_Power_DPS_D/Dhttps://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Daredevil_-_Condi_DPS

In PVP Dagger / Dagger is weak because it only offers damage. Meanwhile most builds use Dagger in some variety:Mainhandhttps://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Thief_-_Marauder_D/Phttps://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Daredevil_-_Dagger/Pistol

Offhandhttps://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Daredevil_-_S/D_Conditionhttps://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Thief_-_Marauder_S/D

Dagger is a very strong weapon on Thief, buffing it to make the combination Dagger / Dagger more powerful would break the PVP balance. If anything Dagger needs nerfs.And for PVE it's quite strong still so I don't see an issue.

[Schnuschnu.9857]

@cargar.7148 said:Warriors have very high critical score and damage. Engineers have useful skills. The buffs given by the guards are not calculated. Likewise in revenant and elementalists. In other words, all the characters except for thief have some way of doing damage and not taking damage.

Thieves have really high evasion uptime and methods of dealing damge while evading or inbuild evades in damage skills.

In thiefs, the main ability to deal damage is invisibility. To be invisible, either the shadow refuge skill or the cloak and dagger skill are the main skills. Shadow refuge ability is as short as 10 seconds.

If Shadow Refuge is your main stealth skill you are doing something wrong. You can easily combo some smoke fields for enormous stealth uptime or steal to stealth, blinding powder etc.

Cloak and dagger must deal damage to the target for it to function.

And that should never change. An offensive ability that works regardless if the enemy counters it or not (like dodging) would be horribly unbalanced.

It also spends 5 initiatives. Let's say we are invisible; The range of the Backstab ability and the ability that comes with other invisibility is very, very short and easily failed.

You can Shadow Shot to land backstabs since the projectile does no damage and therefore you don't get revealed. Also you blind the enemy eliminating any chance of imidiate counter play. You should only need short invisibility durations to set up what you need to.

Shadow Arts , critical arts and trickery builds are separate and it's very difficult to have them separately. My request from you, please improve your thief skills. For example ; The range of the backstab skill may increase. Cloak and Dagger can also be invisible without damaging the target. At least increase the initiative he spent, but please bring this feature. These are just some of my thoughts. Yours sincerely as head of a thief lovers association :)

I don't want to be rude, but you are likely not really good with thief and demand changes because you don't use or don't even know about possibilities to deal with the problems you have. Everything you struggle with has solutions. You should ask for advice, don't demand change just because you haven't mastered a class.

[okey MATMAZEL.7512]

page cannot be displayed. ;)

[okey MATMAZEL.7512]

schnuschnu.9857 , What kind of pain did thiefs leave on you? :)

[AliamRationem.5172]

@cargar.7148 said:Hello, easy come all.I have some complaints about the inequality of the characters in the game. I have been playing thief for 3 years and the character I enjoy the most is thief. Unfortunately, thief is quite behind compared to all other characters. For example ;Ranger can wear a longbow and do things from afar without much difficulty. But thief cannot sufficiently damage the shortbow or other ranged weapons.As if Necromancer did not suffer enough damage, there are also cc skills. Since it is a soul form, it can obtain twice the hit points. But thieves' hit points are far behind.Warriors have very high critical score and damage. Engineers have useful skills. The buffs given by the guards are not calculated. Likewise in revenant and elementalists. In other words, all the characters except for thief have some way of doing damage and not taking damage. In thiefs, the main ability to deal damage is invisibility. To be invisible, either the shadow refuge skill or the cloak and dagger skill are the main skills. Shadow refuge ability is as short as 10 seconds. Cloak and dagger must deal damage to the target for it to function. It also spends 5 initiatives. Let's say we are invisible; The range of the Backstab ability and the ability that comes with other invisibility is very, very short and easily failed. Shadow Arts , critical arts and trickery builds are separate and it's very difficult to have them separately. My request from you, please improve your thief skills. For example ; The range of the backstab skill may increase. Cloak and Dagger can also be invisible without damaging the target. At least increase the initiative he spent, but please bring this feature. These are just some of my thoughts. Yours sincerely as head of a thief lovers association :)

You're just doing it wrong if you think thief can't deal damage without taking damage (or heal it back rapidly on offense if they do!). The tools are there for you to use.

Health comparisons aren't really relevant. There are plenty of meta builds for classes with bottom tier health. It can matter in specific scenarios, and it could be done differently. But I see no driving need for a change here.

[MedievalThings.5417]

You can clear all non-instanced pve content with condition gear and just shortbow. This includes story instances too.

[kratan.4619]

It sounds like the title should have been "Why is thief dagger/dagger not the best weapon option?"

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

The professions are not supposed to be equal. Each profession specialize in certain art of combat. The only imbalance you'll find is in PvP and WvW where some professions are overtuned, just like as you said, for example the Warrior has too much crits. High crits should belong to medium armor wearer, not to heavy armor wearer.

Thief in PvE is manageable since you're fighting against AI that can be easily manipulated with skills that are highly telegraphed.

[Dantheman.3589]

Invisibility doesn’t do any damage though- it’s just one of thief’s way of maintaining map control and surviving. Only traitline I think needs a rework is crit strikes, which has a little build diversity and is actually better than ppl give it credit for, but it mostly just increases damage so just rework a few skills to give it more utility

[Schnuschnu.9857]

@cargar.7148 said:schnuschnu.9857 , What kind of pain did thiefs leave on you? :)

None. I just showed you that your complaints are no issues because I offered a solution to all of them. So tell me, what problems are left? None. You just need some practise with the class, nothing more. I too have classes I struggle to play efficently, doesn't mean that they are too weak etc.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@Dantheman.3589 said:Invisibility doesn’t do any damage though- it’s just one of thief’s way of maintaining map control and surviving. Only traitline I think needs a rework is crit strikes, which has a little build diversity and is actually better than ppl give it credit for, but it mostly just increases damage so just rework a few skills to give it more utility

We definitely need more procs on crits in the CS line. We got like what? 3 traits that procs on crits -- it's horrible.

[Trepidation Lost.3469]

PvP Wvw changes are deserved

[Virdo.1540]

Thieves arent bad. Good thieves are almost too good.

In PvP, they can be unkillable cancer.Pve.... snowcrows.com even a look at the benchmark is enough. 2. highest damage of all

[RedShark.9548]

Weirdly enough, if i look at the pvp forum, i see alot of complaints about how good d/p and s/p thief is atm

[Carnifex.3275]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

Dagger is a very strong weapon on Thief, buffing it to make the combination Dagger / Dagger more powerful would break the PVP balance. If anything Dagger needs nerfs.And for PVE it's quite strong still so I don't see an issue.

Weird that people here still think dagger needs nerfs. This thing was obliterated into oblivion and linking metabattle doesn't mean anything at all. Nerfed over and over again and D/D CnD build was viable only in vanilla (pre-HoT) GW2. Anet made sure to put Dagger into the gravestone and yet... some people think it needs more nerfs. Think about it how long ago u actually saw a successful D/D CnD player? And even D/P is a mere shadow of what it used to be. Hence many players started trolling with condi builds and S/P and Staff builds. Cuz what else can they do? And even now D/P is meta but only with Assassins Signet and Shadow Arts instead of DA.. that's just sad. Main hand AA was nerfed big time. Cooldown was put onto backstab so you u'll be mostly out of stealth on your 2nd attempt. Black Powder got clunky cast time put as a cherry on top. PI was nerfed so forget Headshot too. And i'm sure i'm forgettin somethin but yea.. Dagger needs nerfs.

[lkilian.1854]

You baited me, with that tittle I was expecting a lecture on Marxist theory

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@RedShark.9548 said:Weirdly enough, if i look at the pvp forum, i see alot of complaints about how good d/p and s/p thief is atm

Dp thief with assassin signet and the right build will rip 3+ boons and starts almost every engagements with a burst out of stealth thst one shots zerk builds and takes 50% or more hp off of tanky builds evening out the playing fields so to speak if it's going to try for the kill. Even if dp isn't a great up front 1v1 the backstab burst is enough to make it effective as it is along side assassin sig. After patch dp players will have a huge dps loss on their first initial burst as well as their follow up dps being lowered against unchanged base hp's on its opponents. Without that big initial backstab burst to start engagements or to quickly end +1's I doubt they're will be many dp thief's within weeks of the patch.