Coming from a FB main, this one's obvious.

[Ragnar.4257]

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@"Arken.3725" said:Hello everyone, friendly neighborhood FB here. I'll make this short. FB needs nerfs and I hope it gets them soon. I'll go into detail later but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that FB(along with Necro and condi-rev) are shutting out every other build. This may come as a shock to some of you since I'm saying this but it needs nerfs and soon.

Anyone who cares about fairness, fun and actual skill would be calling for nerfs to their own main any day of the week to make this game better.

Thanks for listening,Arken

Edit: here are some of the glaring issues. Biggest offender: symbols. Every kitten weapon has one so you're essentially forced to spec into this boring and powerful mechanic.

Second offender: even though mantra's require a charge-up, it's still essentially instant cast. I love the idea of mantra's but I'm not sure how to deal with this one.

Third: over abundance of CC. Granted, the axe symbol has an obvious animation and a decent cast time with it having to be traited, it's still too good in combination with all the other forms of CC.

-this was pass on to me to post this here-

This is from before patch, can tell by the cooldowns on #2 skills. It's also against potato-players who stand still on point pressing 1111, and the build being used is an incoherent mess of Menders and Sages.

How is that relevant now?

[Stand The Wall.6987]

I made a post in the wvw forum about aoes, lessening their duration to 2-3 sec but buffing their cds and effects. maybe that would be the way to go for symbols. seems to me the strongest thing about symbolbrand is the constant area denial. don't wanna neuter mirage em ofc.

[Arken.3725]

Well I mean, AoE should never be more effective than single-target and yet here we are. Unfortunately, when every weapon has such a mechanic (symbols in this case) you're just forced to invest into it.

Either way, please do something about FB. I'm tired of fighting them myself and I can't even imagine other professions dealing with that crap.

[Foxraging.1269]

@Arken.3725 said:If you ask me Eura, it's more so the symbols than the mantra's. Remember, the main offender is Mantra of Truth(even though it got nerfed). The rest of the mantra's aren't as strong. Symbols provide significant pressure in any given area and while most symbols(outside of axe) that don't keep you in them well enough, mantra of truth helps with that.

But again, gutting symbols would destroy core guards who rely on symbols for tick damage, heals, and other purposes. Since the start of GW2 symbols have been guards signature, unique ability (which is why every weapon has a symbol).

In short, dont destroy core guards who already struggle to keep their place just to get rid of FB. Instead target axe symbol and perhaps remove the stun or cripple in PvP only? Adjust mantras and tomes if need be but again leave core guard out of this.

[Arken.3725]

Forgive me but the whole class needs an overhaul. It's slow, has unfun mechanics such as the stationary AoE, relies too heavily on aegis to survive (which in turn relies too much on the honor trait line). It essentially has three terrible signet's as core skills (virtues) that are only noticable if you run either FB or trait into it.

Essentially what has happened is anet has forced guardians to take the only logical choice to stay relevant which is symbol FB. Core and dh are absolute garbage by any standard.

[otto.5684]

@Arken.3725 said:All I'm saying is that I'm okay with making my own main unplayable for the betterment of this game, regardless of what it is. I'm tired of fighting FB's myself.

It can be meta without being over powered. Both you and I came with reasonable nerf suggestions. I assume Anet devs can do better (not sure about that anymore).

[Arken.3725]

But one of the prior issues brought up was the affect on core and dh. Remember, those are literally garbage. How does one nerf FB and not tough the other two? Because again, you don't see the other two for obvious reasons.

[Chaith.8256]

@Arken.3725 said:But one of the prior issues brought up was the affect on core and dh. Remember, those are literally garbage. How does one nerf FB and not tough the other two? Because again, you don't see the other two for obvious reasons.

Seems like a simple solution to me, nerf hammer the Firebrand skills & traits hard, and buff power core/DH mechanics to bring Firebrand to a balanced state.

[Aktium.9506]

@Arken.3725 said:How does one nerf FB and not tough the other two? Because again, you don't see the other two for obvious reasons.What if DH Virtues had ammo and Core had two additional Virtues so it has five total?

[NotoriousNaru.1705]

Would just like to note for those claiming the issue is FB and not core guard traits that all the relevant nerfs symbol fb got last patch were specifically targeted at tomes(fb). F2 tome has been reduced to uselessness and 9/10 times you are better off RFing to reset f3 than to use f2 for peels which is ironically your 'heal' tome. The reason these nerfs didn't effect symbolbrand at all is because the degeneracy of this build doesn't come from FB but from the zeal and honor lines. Infact, the fb nerfs last patch hit support fb the hardest which was already not viable and was considered a healthy version of fb for the meta. The biggest offender of symbolbrand from FB line was mantra of truth, and those condi values got nerfed so its not as obnoxious now. As for zeal and honor, they make this build what it is. Your first passive on zeal is a free retal symbol (zealots speed) on a 30s cd. Along with the next 2 traits giving you perma retal and fury and obnoxious vuln stacking(wraitful spirit and furious focus). Then the last zeal passive and grandmaster being bloated symbol buffs(symbolic power and symbolic avenger). As for the honor line its about the same with yet another passive on heal symbol on a 20s cd(protector's restoration). On top of that the grandmaster writ of persistence which increases symbol radius, heals on symbols, AND increases their duration by 2s each which is pretty bloated when you look at the cooldowns of axe 2 and scepter 2. So for those saying to leave core alone but only nerf FB to get rid of symbolbrand ask yourself how that is possible when BOTH passive symbols and all the symbol dmg/condi/duration bloat is on honor/zeal. Also there is a core symbol guard variant using those 2 traitlines but its not as popular.

[Arken.3725]

Literally in so many words, @NotoriousNaru.1705 put it so elegantly what I essentially said. Mantra of truth was a huge offender(still is) and compound it all together.

Edit to the two posts above naru's: It makes sense but again, your main issue is symbols so you need to look at what magnifies that problem which lies in the investment of said symbols. On ammoing virtue's, I don't know how I feel on that one, they're all still terrible signets. Again, without investment into either FB for tomes or the virtue's traitline, they're just garbage. You're just adding more piles to the garbage.

Edit again: For me, it's gotten so bad that I don't even enjoy queueing up anymore.

[DragonFury.6243]

@Arken.3725 said:But one of the prior issues brought up was the affect on core and dh. Remember, those are literally garbage. How does one nerf FB and not tough the other two? Because again, you don't see the other two for obvious reasons.

simple give it the scourge treatment when they nerfed Path of Corruption and Dhuumfire but only when speced with scourge so core and reaper wasn't hit by it .anet can do it but i think its limited to just numbers nerf not functionality .edit : i think anet don't like this kind of nerfs cuz it complicate the game a bit for new players .

[Malsheem.1794]

Suggestion for FB change.

• "Tome of Resolve" should be locked and always be in FB`s kit
• First thing in FB traitline, you pick whether you want to "attach/unlock" F1 or F3.

This gives you the option to play more focused as support or dps. Either F1/F2 or F2/F3 - leaving the last one as passiv only.

[Arken.3725]

That's a strange suggestion but as I've stated earlier, I'm fairly certain that's not even the issue anymore. Remember, Resolve went from curing 7 condi's in a short period to just 3, along with significant heal nerfs.

[Exalted Quality.8534]

FB has never received any semblance of a tradeoff which is insane as it is one of the most consistently used/stacked specs at higher levels of competitive play.

I believe getting rid of in-combat weapon swapping on FB would be a fair tradeoff if they slightly reduce tome/mantra CDs.

[Arken.3725]

The second part of your statement(in the first sentence) doesn't support the argument in the first part. Explain why that is so myself and maybe other's can debate that. I'm not denying that this spec is abused(and stacked) within both conquest and 2's but explain WHY you believe it to be so with some compelling reasons.

[Tiale.2430]

Many of the comments about Firebrand should not be taken into account by some less inexperienced players. All the main problem is about Symbol Guardian traits and not Firebrand.

The first consideration that Anet should be looking is the Symbolic Power. This trait can be reduced by 50%, maybe the damage.

Symbolic Exposure can reduce the stack of vulnerability to only 1 in the first hit.

Furious Focus can receive an internal cooldown to something like 1s or 2s.

After they make some tests on this. They can think about Mantra of Truth.Remove one of the conditions to avoid condition spam.

All these nerfs should be in steps by minor patches and see how the class keeps going.

Another thing is that F2, Tome of Resolve, this tome right now is obsolete. It has lost a lot of value and something that could be added is a blast finisher at Azure Sun, to open up more gameplay and recover some healing.

[crepuscular.9047]

I'm still distraught from unable to kill a naked FB 2v1

[Fueki.4753]

@Tiale.2430 said:Many of the comments about Firebrand should not be taken into account by some less inexperienced players. All the main problem is about Symbol Guardian traits and not Firebrand.

The first consideration that Anet should be looking is the Symbolic Power. This trait can be reduced by 50%, maybe the damage.

Symbolic Exposure can reduce the stack of vulnerability to only 1 in the first hit.

Furious Focus can receive an internal cooldown to something like 1s or 2s.

After they make some tests on this. They can think about Mantra of Truth.Remove one of the conditions to avoid condition spam.

All these nerfs should be in steps by minor patches and see how the class keeps going.

Another thing is that F2, Tome of Resolve, this tome right now is obsolete. It has lost a lot of value and something that could be added is a blast finisher at Azure Sun, to open up more gameplay and recover some healing.

Why are some people so hell-bent on nerfing both Core Guardian and Dragon Hunter, when the issue is obviously with Firebrand?!If symbols were too strong (which they are not), why aren't Core Guardian and Dragon Hunter equally over-performing? Have you thought about that even once?

[Exedore.6320]

@Fueki.4753 said:Why are some people so hell-bent on nerfing both Core Guardian and Dragon Hunter, when the issue is obviously with Firebrand?!If symbols were too strong (which they are not), why aren't Core Guardian and Dragon Hunter equally over-performing? Have you thought about that even once?Actually, core guard and DH are over-performing a little. Just not to the extent of FB.

The problem with symbols is multi-faceted:

• Many weapons which didn't originally have symbols received more powerful symbols (boons provided) on shorter cooldowns. The traits which were balanced for 15-20sec CD symbols are a little too strong when the CD is reduced by a third. Axe's symbol has a longer cast-time but with quickness traits, it's not that big of a difference.
• Writ of Persistence (increased size and duration) has a multiplicative effect with other symbol traits. Increased duration means more ticks, which means more damage, vulnerability stacks, Virtue of Justice procs, and easier to maintain Symbolic Avenger (stacking damage increase when symbols deal damage). Increased size makes it easier for all of these to hit players more often and gives more area control.

I really wouldn't touch the symbol traits in Zeal line though. Without Writ of Persistence, they aren't nearly as strong in PvP (too easy to avoid). Prior to the refresh of the zeal trait line, symbols were scoffed at for PvP.

[Tiale.2430]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Tiale.2430 said:Many of the comments about Firebrand should not be taken into account by some less inexperienced players. All the main problem is about Symbol Guardian traits and not Firebrand.

The first consideration that Anet should be looking is the

Symbolic Power

. This trait can be reduced by 50%, maybe the damage.

Symbolic Exposure

can reduce the stack of vulnerability to only 1 in the first hit.

Furious Focus

can receive an internal cooldown to something like 1s or 2s.

After they make some tests on this. They can think about

Mantra of Truth.

Remove one of the conditions to avoid condition spam.

All these nerfs should be in steps by minor patches and see how the class keeps going.

Another thing is that F2,

Tome of Resolve

, this tome right now is obsolete. It has lost a lot of value and something that could be added is a blast finisher at Azure Sun, to open up more gameplay and recover some healing.

Why are some people so hell-bent on nerfing both Core Guardian and

Dragon

Hunter, when the issue is

obviously

with Firebrand?!If symbols were too strong (which they are not), why aren't Core Guardian and

Dragon

Hunter equally over-performing? Have you thought about that even once?

Right now have a strong build of celestial core symbol that is not public yet.

[Arken.3725]

Not entirely @Exedore.6320, my old Arkenbrand build utilized Radiance(pre-nerf) and was incredibly fun/risky and somewhat viable. With the combination of the Zeal-refresh as you've stated and the nerfs to Radiance, my build could no longer exist. This may sound crazy but if they kept Radiance as it was it could compete directly with Zeal and since you can't take both(lose sustain from Honor), you'd have competition but alas.

[Arken.3725]

Updated response to the changes made on February 3rd.

• Mantra of Truth: Good changes BUT here's an issue I have overall that I'm going to get flak for. It's still a MANTRA meaning it still has the charge-up time to consider and I feel like the benefit doesn't match the risk of the charge involved.
• Writ of Persistence: I'm unsure about this. If it were up to me, I'd just redo symbols as a whole but who am I kidding?
• Protector's Restoration: I disagree with this one. Even though it's a symbol and compounds the issue's I've stated before, it's a relatively average trait that's now weak(ish).
• Symbol of Vengeance: Feels like a lazy way to balance this. Symbols as a whole suck but do whatcha gotta do.
• Daring Challenge: Uncalled for. Bad enough it does little-to-no damage.
• Restoring Reprieve: I disagree with this change for many reasons. One, it's the only decent heal Guardian has, the rest of them are absolutely horrid. Secondly, this further pushes Guardian's into the Honor trait-line for Pure of Heart due to the necessity of it needing the heal off of Aegis. This change limited diversity even further.

[Poledra Val.1490]

@"Arken.3725" said:Updated response to the changes made on February 3rd.

• Mantra of Truth: Good changes BUT here's an issue I have overall that I'm going to get flak for. It's still a MANTRA meaning it still has the charge-up time to consider and I feel like the benefit doesn't match the risk of the charge involved.
• Writ of Persistence: I'm unsure about this. If it were up to me, I'd just redo symbols as a whole but who am I kidding?
• Protector's Restoration: I disagree with this one. Even though it's a symbol and compounds the issue's I've stated before, it's a relatively average trait that's now weak(ish).
• Symbol of Vengeance: Feels like a lazy way to balance this. Symbols as a whole suck but do whatcha gotta do.
• Daring Challenge: Uncalled for. Bad enough it does little-to-no damage.
• Restoring Reprieve: I disagree with this change for many reasons. One, it's the only decent heal Guardian has, the rest of them are absolutely horrid. Secondly, this further pushes Guardian's into the Honor trait-line for Pure of Heart due to the necessity of it needing the heal off of Aegis. This change limited diversity even further.

I agree with pretty much all of this especially the mantra heal, its literally just been obliterated i am all for nerfs and i agree with most of them but to nerf a heal to this extent is in my opinion uncalled for. "Reduced base heal from 997 to 199" i mean come on that surely is just silliness.

[Arken.3725]

That's the thing @Poledra Val.1490 , the other Guardian heals are just soooo bad that even with the nerfs to Repreive, you're still going to take it.