Coming from a FB main, this one's obvious.

[Arken.3725]

Hello everyone, friendly neighborhood FB here. I'll make this short. FB needs nerfs and I hope it gets them soon. I'll go into detail later but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that FB(along with Necro and condi-rev) are shutting out every other build. This may come as a shock to some of you since I'm saying this but it needs nerfs and soon.

Anyone who cares about fairness, fun and actual skill would be calling for nerfs to their own main any day of the week to make this game better.

Thanks for listening,Arken

Edit: here are some of the glaring issues. Biggest offender: symbols. Every damn weapon has one so you're essentially forced to spec into this boring and powerful mechanic.

Second offender: even though mantra's require a charge-up, it's still essentially instant cast. I love the idea of mantra's but I'm not sure how to deal with this one.

Third: over abundance of CC. Granted, the axe symbol has an obvious animation and a decent cast time with it having to be traited, it's still too good in combination with all the other forms of CC.

[Fueki.4753]

If Firebrand with Symbols is a problem, then the issue is Firebrand.Symbols are fine on Core Guardian and you need to invest two trait lines in to make them actually good.Don't ask for Core gutting when the espec is the problem.

How the devs didn't see CC becoming a problem on all classes after gutting stun breaks is unfathomable to me.But that is not a problem related to Firebrand.

[otto.5684]

I have some ideas.

First, they should remove the virtue of symbolic power. Both it’s damage and the justice passive. Return it back to where it was before zeal rearrangement, and move the damage to a zeal power build mechanic. This might require PvE adjustments, but I think it will be better for guardian in both game modes. This makes a symbolic FB build impossible. And overall, symbols should do the least damage possible in all game modes. Guardian damage should not rely heavily on ground AOE. This always was and is a problematic design.

Mantra of truth, remove the weakness. Possibly increase its CD in PvP from 12 to 15 secs.

Axe, Increasing symbol CD could address the problem. It could go from 8 to 10 secs. Maybe even 12 secs. All this is PvP only obviously.

I know this may not be popular opinion, I do not think tomes are the issue. And they should be left alone. Effectively reducing the CC access and damage should do the trick.

Sustainability is harder to address. Problem is everything is near immortal, especially when you have 2 FBs and variant of one or two other bunker condi. This is a fundamental issue Anet created with this patch knowingly or ignorantly. I think ~90% of this patch needs to be rolled back, but it is too late for that. And Anet ignored most of the feedback and said: “will fix it later.” So... dunno. Nothing on individual class/build level will fix this issue. If it is not FB it will be core necro. If not that condi rev or whatever next in line. Damage needs to go up across the board, even condi damage for some builds.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@Fueki.4753 said:If Firebrand with Symbols is a problem, then the issue is Firebrand.Symbols are fine on Core Guardian and you need to invest two trait lines in to make them actually good.Don't ask for Core gutting when the espec is the problem.

Ya this is the problem with the patch imo. Lots of core things were gutted because of elite spec creep AGAIN but this time nobody notices because it’s under the new buzz word “paradigm shift”

@Arken.3725So what’s the solution? Nerf firebrand now until it no longer functions? Nerf necro now till it no longer functions?

I just don’t get how people are happy with changes that make the classes unplayable it’s so sad.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:If Firebrand with Symbols is a problem, then the issue is Firebrand.Symbols are fine on Core Guardian and you need to invest two trait lines in to make them actually good.Don't ask for Core gutting when the espec is the problem.

Ya this is the problem with the patch imo. Lots of core things were gutted because of elite spec creep AGAIN but this time nobody notices because it’s under the new buzz word “paradigm shift”

@"Arken.3725"So what’s the solution? Nerf firebrand now until it no longer functions? Nerf necro now till it no longer functions?

I just don’t get how people are happy with changes that make the classes unplayable it’s so sad.

Not unplayable.

"Unplayable" for people who just picked them up to join the bandwagon, not spending countless hours to master said spec and were rewarded for it; as should be.

[Arken.3725]

All I'm saying is that I'm okay with making my own main unplayable for the betterment of this game, regardless of what it is. I'm tired of fighting FB's myself.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

symbolic power is also a huge reason why burn guard in wvw is overperforming to the moon.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:Not unplayable."Unplayable" for people who just picked them up to join the bandwagon, not spending countless hours to master said spec and were rewarded for it; as should be.

I'm a firm believer in this balancing direction.

[Anodic.6712]

What if they made it so charging heal mantra removes stability on the firebrand like headbutt does for berserker

[Arken.3725]

Good luck trying to figure out how to make it so you're rewarded for doing well vs those who just pick it up.

Hell, that's how my old Arkenbrand used to feel when I ran with 11k hp. Not so much anymore.

Edit: I say just completely redo symbols as a whole. That would help tremendously.

[Eurantien.4632]

I think the problem is mantras. At least there's some low key counterplay vs symbols. We could throw up team retal and stack in your symbols. It auto activates full counter...

Mantras? They're too good. When I press a utility I have to wait at least 24s (traited) to use my shortest CD ones again. Mantra users with these ammo type charges can just insta cast spam mantras with no real drawbacks... the short recharge time to activate them is an absurd argument for counterplay.

In this meta, they're even worse because classes no longer have the sustain or cds to econimically survive a fully charged firebrand mantra vomit. And even if you manage to survive, notice I said economically, your cds will not be back before theirs. And good luck finding the CDs to interrupt a mantra channel after barely crawling away from that mantra avalanche. Even if your cds magically were able to compete, you still have to contend with tomes. There are just too many buttons and the root problem is mantras.

They are busted on Guardian. They are (were?) busted on mesmer.

[Arken.3725]

No disagreement. I do slightly disagree that the counter-point of it having a charge-time still stands, even if only a little. This aspect was SUPPOSED to make it risky when charging and rewarding when gaining said charge, not so much in practice.

[Eurantien.4632]

And then also, if it's not mantras... can you slot shouts or meditations instead of mantras and be anywhere near as effective?

[Arken.3725]

Funny enough, most fb's still use mostly mantra's with maybe one shout at best. The worst part about it all is that all 3 of those skill-types(with the slight exception to mantra's) is that they're all instant. No counter-play at all. But to answer your question, only one meditation is useful currently and 1 shout(Stand your Ground) MIGHT be useful due to the stability nerfs.

[Eurantien.4632]

I guess my point was, if these other utilities are alright, shouldn't symbols (if they're the problem) be enough to carry the firebrand. Or is that mantras are really the problem, and not symbols?

[Arken.3725]

If you ask me Eura, it's more so the symbols than the mantra's. Remember, the main offender is Mantra of Truth(even though it got nerfed). The rest of the mantra's aren't as strong. Symbols provide significant pressure in any given area and while most symbols(outside of axe) that don't keep you in them well enough, mantra of truth helps with that.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

apparently arken hates old people. poor oldies.

[Eurantien.4632]

Fair enough, you'd know better anyway.

[alain.1659]

Reduce mantra charges to 2 with some tweaks. Make opening books instacast/remove cast delay for opening and closing books and it will be better in my opinion.

[Arken.3725]

It's not even about nthat @Eurantien.4632 , it's just something I've noticed over years of playing. If it were me, I'd completely overhaul symbols(this will take forever) even if it ends up being a weaker mechanic overall.

Edit to the post above: I disagree with this, whether you believe it or not, that charge-time is still a significant portion of how it's balanced. At that point, you may as well remove the charge-time entirely and just have a regular ammo-system attached.

[Burnfall.9573]

@"Arken.3725" said:Hello everyone, friendly neighborhood FB here. I'll make this short. FB needs nerfs and I hope it gets them soon. I'll go into detail later but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that FB(along with Necro and condi-rev) are shutting out every other build. This may come as a shock to some of you since I'm saying this but it needs nerfs and soon.

Anyone who cares about fairness, fun and actual skill would be calling for nerfs to their own main any day of the week to make this game better.

Thanks for listening,Arken

Edit: here are some of the glaring issues. Biggest offender: symbols. Every kitten weapon has one so you're essentially forced to spec into this boring and powerful mechanic.

Second offender: even though mantra's require a charge-up, it's still essentially instant cast. I love the idea of mantra's but I'm not sure how to deal with this one.

Third: over abundance of CC. Granted, the axe symbol has an obvious animation and a decent cast time with it having to be traited, it's still too good in combination with all the other forms of CC.

-this was pass on to me to post this here-

[DeceiverX.8361]

@"Fueki.4753" said:If Firebrand with Symbols is a problem, then the issue is Firebrand.Symbols are fine on Core Guardian and you need to invest two trait lines in to make them actually good.Don't ask for Core gutting when the espec is the problem.

How the devs didn't see CC becoming a problem on all classes after gutting stun breaks is unfathomable to me.But that is not a problem related to Firebrand.

Much easier to just nerf the weapons than for ANet to admit they messed up badly with PoF elite specs and rework or hard nerf just those.People whined about TTK for all the wrong reasons. It had nothing to do with the weapons - at least not core game ones. It was about the scaling and extra power introduced in various forms of expansion and post-expansion power unique to these scenarios.

It's just much better PR for them to say "We're moving forward with a paradigm shift!" than acknowledge they've been regressing the past five years and to remove or change content they've already added.

[Fueki.4753]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@"Fueki.4753" said:If Firebrand with Symbols is a problem, then the issue is Firebrand.Symbols are fine on Core Guardian and you need to invest two trait lines in to make them actually good.Don't ask for Core gutting when the espec is the problem.

How the devs didn't see CC becoming a problem on all classes after gutting stun breaks is unfathomable to me.But that is not a problem related to Firebrand.

Much easier to just nerf the weapons than for ANet to admit they messed up badly with PoF elite specs and rework or hard nerf just those.People whined about TTK for all the wrong reasons. It had nothing to do with the weapons - at least not core game ones. It was about the scaling and extra power introduced in various forms of expansion and post-expansion power unique to these scenarios.

It's just much better PR for them to say "We're moving forward with a paradigm shift!" than acknowledge they've been regressing the past five years and to remove or change content they've already added.

At this point, it'd be significantly better PR for them to admit they did a lot of things wrong (and perhaps even apologize for some things) then to just go forward.If even Blizzard can use admitting to give new hope to sceptics, Arenanet should be able to, too.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Pretty much what I'm seeing out of meta comps is this:

• FB / Core Necro
• FB / Malyx
• FB / Weaver or even Tempest

Outside of those 3, people can swap to play counter builds vs. the aforementioned comps, but any comp outside of the above isn't like "stable" vs. all, it's just used as countering if it's advantageous. Some things I've seen that work:

• Double Weavers or Tempests with lots of projectile nullification and lots of CC. It can counter FB/Core Necro Lich
• Double Scourge can counter a FB with all the boon removes, but that's not to say it can counter his partner
• FB/Soulbeast can counter FB/Core Necro if the Soulbeast is good and running high DPS.
• FB/Daredevil can counter FB/Malyx due to sheer volume of condi removal
• FB/Holo or Warrior/Spellbreaker also has potential counter vs. certain things due to sheer volume of CC output

But anything outside of these comps that I've seen in play, are just bad in the 2v2 Arenas.

Things that are SOL:

• Berserker
• Any Guardian that is not a Firebrand
• Any Rev that is not Malyx
• Core Ranger & Druids, better luck next patch
• Core Thief & Deadeye, eeeeeeeh, against the solid 3 comps I mentioned, they can't do anything if their opponents are competetant
• Core Engi & Scrapper, better luck next patch
• All Mesmers are experiencing their very first time ever being bench warmers
• Reapers, just bad
• Core Ele doesn't get anything done.

It's all very narrow in these 2v2 arenas right now. We aren't talking small margins of difference in the potency of these builds. We're talking heavily dominant vs. statistically weak in every way. The hierarchy goes in this order imo, concerning 2v2:

1. Firebrand
2. Malyx or Core Necro
3. Weavers or Tempests
4. Holosmith or Spellbreaker or Soulbeast or Daredevil

Anything outside of the above is just not viable in 2v2 right now if you're aiming at the plat badge or maybe top 100 status, or even top 250.

[Fueki.4753]

These are good times to aim for the bottom ranks.A boring game mode that takes too long.It should have been 1 win out of one match or at most 2 wins out of 3 matches, but not 3 wins out of 5 atrocities.Quicker queues, quicker out of this atrocity.

If I wanted Arena matches, I'd play WoW.