1 dodge in WVW is just.... terrible

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Doug.4930 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Leap Of Faith.8263 said:Mesmer is no fun in wvw anymore. Been trying to make mirage work in wvw but it doesn’t work. Lack defense, already squishy, other class can so easily outsustain you without even trying. Mirage is probably the worst elite spec to play in wvw currently. It even beats druid.If anyone find something viable to play then do post on forums, will give it a try.Trailblazer condi mirage with double energy sigil and endurance food is 100% viable in wvw.

If you start arguing now that you don't want to play condi and you don't want to use these sigils, but you want to play mirage, then let me tell you:

I can't play condi reaper, I can't play power core necro. And I don't even need to try to roam on any necro build without rune of speed. Welcome at the level of the rest of the classes with limited viable options. Mirage has been overpowered long enough.

Food is for newbies.And yes condi mirage is viable on wvw (roaming), for one reason:

• people suck in wvw.

Yes but actually no.

Many players don't know how to fight in WvW, so that part is true. But the build isn't viable because people are bad. The build is viable because its essentially a contender for the best roaming build in the current meta. As far as I'm aware it has no counter. Pre patch some burst builds were able to wear it down before it out sustained them. But post nerf after ttk for power builds was greatly reduced (rightfully so) the ability for power to burst down condi mirages has essentially been eliminated when fighting a decent condi mirage. The build has no counter that I'm aware off. It has sustain/stealth/mobility/high hp/high toughness/high condi burst potential. It takes me back to the old pistol dagger perplex thief days. Add to the fact that condi damage was not tonned down in relation to the justified power nerfs and you have the perfect cocktail for the new kingpin of 1v1's.

Condi mirage is broken.

I can understand the reasoning behind taking away mirages dodge. A dodge that allows you to use skills while in evade frames and is usable whilst CC'd is crazy strong. And elite specs

should

have a trade off and not be a straight upgrade from core. But If I'm being honest, the nerf only affected glassy power mirages and has left condi mirages untouched. Condi doesn't need 2 dodges when its a walking tank and doesn't need to dodge nearly as much for its survivability. So anyone playing power mirage has my sympathy.

EDIT: Actually has anyone even seen a power mirage since the patch?

So I'd be open to giving mirage back its two dodges, but that would need to come at a price. Something needs to be lost for picking mirage.

So I would amend the title.1 Dodge in WvW is terrible if you're running power.Because even with 1 dodge condi mirage shouldn't really lose to anything at the moment, and when played with an ounce of competence it doesn't.

cmirage is only good in 1v1/2v2, more then that and you can ignore them, no class in the game actually dies to cmirage if it doesnt want to, no chase potential whatsoever.the only problem is runes of tormenting, why were they not nerfed? there is a reason why they are 7g+ on the marketand yes I do play power mirage in pvp, its worse then almost if not all other power classes, power rev has double if not triple the damage, ranger has double the damage etc etc, all the while I have less ways to mitigate the damage, not the other way around.In about a week that I played WvW I have seen more power mesmers/mirages then condi, why? its bad and its boring, nobody gives a shit about roaming because nobody 1v1, if I see unkilable mirage wanna 1v1 me do you think im going to duel him to the death? nah, you took snoozfest build and im gonna leave you here, later bish, there is nothing in wvw that forces you to actually fight people 1v1, other then them having the mobility/cc to keep you in combat, and cmirage doesnt have either of those.

[HowlKamui.5120]

@Doug.4930 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Leap Of Faith.8263 said:Mesmer is no fun in wvw anymore. Been trying to make mirage work in wvw but it doesn’t work. Lack defense, already squishy, other class can so easily outsustain you without even trying. Mirage is probably the worst elite spec to play in wvw currently. It even beats druid.If anyone find something viable to play then do post on forums, will give it a try.Trailblazer condi mirage with double energy sigil and endurance food is 100% viable in wvw.

If you start arguing now that you don't want to play condi and you don't want to use these sigils, but you want to play mirage, then let me tell you:

I can't play condi reaper, I can't play power core necro. And I don't even need to try to roam on any necro build without rune of speed. Welcome at the level of the rest of the classes with limited viable options. Mirage has been overpowered long enough.

Food is for newbies.And yes condi mirage is viable on wvw (roaming), for one reason:

• people suck in wvw.

...But post nerf after ttk for power builds was greatly reduced (rightfully so) ...

You mean TTK was increased right? TTK being reduced means it takes less time to kill something.

[HowlKamui.5120]

@Doug.4930 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Leap Of Faith.8263 said:Mesmer is no fun in wvw anymore. Been trying to make mirage work in wvw but it doesn’t work. Lack defense, already squishy, other class can so easily outsustain you without even trying. Mirage is probably the worst elite spec to play in wvw currently. It even beats druid.If anyone find something viable to play then do post on forums, will give it a try.Trailblazer condi mirage with double energy sigil and endurance food is 100% viable in wvw.

If you start arguing now that you don't want to play condi and you don't want to use these sigils, but you want to play mirage, then let me tell you:

I can't play condi reaper, I can't play power core necro. And I don't even need to try to roam on any necro build without rune of speed. Welcome at the level of the rest of the classes with limited viable options. Mirage has been overpowered long enough.

Food is for newbies.And yes condi mirage is viable on wvw (roaming), for one reason:

• people suck in wvw.

Yes but actually no.

Many players don't know how to fight in WvW, so that part is true. But the build isn't viable because people are bad. The build is viable because its essentially a contender for the best roaming build in the current meta. As far as I'm aware it has no counter. Pre patch some burst builds were able to wear it down before it out sustained them. But post nerf after ttk for power builds was greatly reduced (rightfully so) the ability for power to burst down condi mirages has essentially been eliminated when fighting a decent condi mirage. The build has no counter that I'm aware off. It has sustain/stealth/mobility/high hp/high toughness/high condi burst potential. It takes me back to the old pistol dagger perplex thief days. Add to the fact that condi damage was not tonned down in relation to the justified power nerfs and you have the perfect cocktail for the new kingpin of 1v1's.

Condi mirage is broken.

I can understand the reasoning behind taking away mirages dodge. A dodge that allows you to use skills while in evade frames and is usable whilst CC'd is crazy strong. And elite specs

should

have a trade off and not be a straight upgrade from core. But If I'm being honest, the nerf only affected glassy power mirages and has left condi mirages untouched. Condi doesn't need 2 dodges when its a walking tank and doesn't need to dodge nearly as much for its survivability. So anyone playing power mirage has my sympathy.

EDIT: Actually has anyone even seen a power mirage since the patch?

So I'd be open to giving mirage back its two dodges, but that would need to come at a price. Something needs to be lost for picking mirage.

So I would amend the title.1 Dodge in WvW is terrible if you're running power.Because even with 1 dodge condi mirage shouldn't really lose to anything at the moment, and when played with an ounce of competence it doesn't.

I'd like to know how these condi mirages are build as im still learning the class.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@Doug.4930 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Leap Of Faith.8263 said:Mesmer is no fun in wvw anymore. Been trying to make mirage work in wvw but it doesn’t work. Lack defense, already squishy, other class can so easily outsustain you without even trying. Mirage is probably the worst elite spec to play in wvw currently. It even beats druid.If anyone find something viable to play then do post on forums, will give it a try.Trailblazer condi mirage with double energy sigil and endurance food is 100% viable in wvw.

If you start arguing now that you don't want to play condi and you don't want to use these sigils, but you want to play mirage, then let me tell you:

I can't play condi reaper, I can't play power core necro. And I don't even need to try to roam on any necro build without rune of speed. Welcome at the level of the rest of the classes with limited viable options. Mirage has been overpowered long enough.

Food is for newbies.And yes condi mirage is viable on wvw (roaming), for one reason:

• people suck in wvw.

Yes but actually no.

Many players don't know how to fight in WvW, so that part is true. But the build isn't viable because people are bad. The build is viable because its essentially a contender for the best roaming build in the current meta. As far as I'm aware it has no counter. Pre patch some burst builds were able to wear it down before it out sustained them. But post nerf after ttk for power builds was greatly reduced (rightfully so) the ability for power to burst down condi mirages has essentially been eliminated when fighting a decent condi mirage. The build has no counter that I'm aware off. It has sustain/stealth/mobility/high hp/high toughness/high condi burst potential. It takes me back to the old pistol dagger perplex thief days. Add to the fact that condi damage was not tonned down in relation to the justified power nerfs and you have the perfect cocktail for the new kingpin of 1v1's.

Condi mirage is broken.

I can understand the reasoning behind taking away mirages dodge. A dodge that allows you to use skills while in evade frames and is usable whilst CC'd is crazy strong. And elite specs

should

have a trade off and not be a straight upgrade from core. But If I'm being honest, the nerf only affected glassy power mirages and has left condi mirages untouched. Condi doesn't need 2 dodges when its a walking tank and doesn't need to dodge nearly as much for its survivability. So anyone playing power mirage has my sympathy.

EDIT: Actually has anyone even seen a power mirage since the patch?

So I'd be open to giving mirage back its two dodges, but that would need to come at a price. Something needs to be lost for picking mirage.

So I would amend the title.1 Dodge in WvW is terrible if you're running power.Because even with 1 dodge condi mirage shouldn't really lose to anything at the moment, and when played with an ounce of competence it doesn't.

Condi mirage is so broken that no one plays that crap.One dodge wasn't the only nerf mirage got, mirage got 2years of constant nerfs under its belt.Sure you can survive but what does it matter if you can't kill anything except baddies.

As I said I can 1vX on wvw easily but it's not because of my skill or that mirage (both power and condi) is op, it is because the average wvw player is awful.

[Doug.4930]

@mikdepadua.8376 said:

@Doug.4930 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Leap Of Faith.8263 said:Mesmer is no fun in wvw anymore. Been trying to make mirage work in wvw but it doesn’t work. Lack defense, already squishy, other class can so easily outsustain you without even trying. Mirage is probably the worst elite spec to play in wvw currently. It even beats druid.If anyone find something viable to play then do post on forums, will give it a try.Trailblazer condi mirage with double energy sigil and endurance food is 100% viable in wvw.

If you start arguing now that you don't want to play condi and you don't want to use these sigils, but you want to play mirage, then let me tell you:

I can't play condi reaper, I can't play power core necro. And I don't even need to try to roam on any necro build without rune of speed. Welcome at the level of the rest of the classes with limited viable options. Mirage has been overpowered long enough.

Food is for newbies.And yes condi mirage is viable on wvw (roaming), for one reason:

• people suck in wvw.

...But post nerf after ttk for power builds was greatly reduced (rightfully so) ...

You mean TTK was increased right? TTK being reduced means it takes less time to kill something.

Yes my bad edited.

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Doug.4930 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Leap Of Faith.8263 said:Mesmer is no fun in wvw anymore. Been trying to make mirage work in wvw but it doesn’t work. Lack defense, already squishy, other class can so easily outsustain you without even trying. Mirage is probably the worst elite spec to play in wvw currently. It even beats druid.If anyone find something viable to play then do post on forums, will give it a try.Trailblazer condi mirage with double energy sigil and endurance food is 100% viable in wvw.

If you start arguing now that you don't want to play condi and you don't want to use these sigils, but you want to play mirage, then let me tell you:

I can't play condi reaper, I can't play power core necro. And I don't even need to try to roam on any necro build without rune of speed. Welcome at the level of the rest of the classes with limited viable options. Mirage has been overpowered long enough.

Food is for newbies.And yes condi mirage is viable on wvw (roaming), for one reason:

• people suck in wvw.

Yes but actually no.

Many players don't know how to fight in WvW, so that part is true. But the build isn't viable because people are bad. The build is viable because its essentially a contender for the best roaming build in the current meta. As far as I'm aware it has no counter. Pre patch some burst builds were able to wear it down before it out sustained them. But post nerf after ttk for power builds was greatly reduced (rightfully so) the ability for power to burst down condi mirages has essentially been eliminated when fighting a decent condi mirage. The build has no counter that I'm aware off. It has sustain/stealth/mobility/high hp/high toughness/high condi burst potential. It takes me back to the old pistol dagger perplex thief days. Add to the fact that condi damage was not tonned down in relation to the justified power nerfs and you have the perfect cocktail for the new kingpin of 1v1's.

Condi mirage is broken.

I can understand the reasoning behind taking away mirages dodge. A dodge that allows you to use skills while in evade frames and is usable whilst CC'd is crazy strong. And elite specs

should

have a trade off and not be a straight upgrade from core. But If I'm being honest, the nerf only affected glassy power mirages and has left condi mirages untouched. Condi doesn't need 2 dodges when its a walking tank and doesn't need to dodge nearly as much for its survivability. So anyone playing power mirage has my sympathy.

EDIT: Actually has anyone even seen a power mirage since the patch?

So I'd be open to giving mirage back its two dodges, but that would need to come at a price. Something needs to be lost for picking mirage.

So I would amend the title.1 Dodge in WvW is terrible if you're running power.Because even with 1 dodge condi mirage shouldn't really lose to anything at the moment, and when played with an ounce of competence it doesn't.

Condi mirage is so broken that no one plays that kitten.One dodge wasn't the only nerf mirage got, mirage got 2years of constant nerfs under its belt.Sure you can survive but what does it matter if you can't kill anything except baddies.

As I said I can 1vX on wvw easily but it's not because of my skill or that mirage (both power and condi) is op, it is because the average wvw player is awful.

Condi mirages are literally everywhere on the small scale scene in WvW. I get that this is the mesmer forum and its a running theme that everybody who posts about their main claims it to be underpowered, but condi mirage is crazy strong for roaming.

[viquing.8254]

@Doug.4930 said:

@mikdepadua.8376 said:

@Doug.4930 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Leap Of Faith.8263 said:Mesmer is no fun in wvw anymore. Been trying to make mirage work in wvw but it doesn’t work. Lack defense, already squishy, other class can so easily outsustain you without even trying. Mirage is probably the worst elite spec to play in wvw currently. It even beats druid.If anyone find something viable to play then do post on forums, will give it a try.Trailblazer condi mirage with double energy sigil and endurance food is 100% viable in wvw.

If you start arguing now that you don't want to play condi and you don't want to use these sigils, but you want to play mirage, then let me tell you:

I can't play condi reaper, I can't play power core necro. And I don't even need to try to roam on any necro build without rune of speed. Welcome at the level of the rest of the classes with limited viable options. Mirage has been overpowered long enough.

Food is for newbies.And yes condi mirage is viable on wvw (roaming), for one reason:

• people suck in wvw.

...But post nerf after ttk for power builds was greatly reduced (rightfully so) ...

You mean TTK was increased right? TTK being reduced means it takes less time to kill something.

Yes my bad edited.

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Doug.4930 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Leap Of Faith.8263 said:Mesmer is no fun in wvw anymore. Been trying to make mirage work in wvw but it doesn’t work. Lack defense, already squishy, other class can so easily outsustain you without even trying. Mirage is probably the worst elite spec to play in wvw currently. It even beats druid.If anyone find something viable to play then do post on forums, will give it a try.Trailblazer condi mirage with double energy sigil and endurance food is 100% viable in wvw.

If you start arguing now that you don't want to play condi and you don't want to use these sigils, but you want to play mirage, then let me tell you:

I can't play condi reaper, I can't play power core necro. And I don't even need to try to roam on any necro build without rune of speed. Welcome at the level of the rest of the classes with limited viable options. Mirage has been overpowered long enough.

Food is for newbies.And yes condi mirage is viable on wvw (roaming), for one reason:

• people suck in wvw.

Yes but actually no.

Many players don't know how to fight in WvW, so that part is true. But the build isn't viable because people are bad. The build is viable because its essentially a contender for the best roaming build in the current meta. As far as I'm aware it has no counter. Pre patch some burst builds were able to wear it down before it out sustained them. But post nerf after ttk for power builds was greatly reduced (rightfully so) the ability for power to burst down condi mirages has essentially been eliminated when fighting a decent condi mirage. The build has no counter that I'm aware off. It has sustain/stealth/mobility/high hp/high toughness/high condi burst potential. It takes me back to the old pistol dagger perplex thief days. Add to the fact that condi damage was not tonned down in relation to the justified power nerfs and you have the perfect cocktail for the new kingpin of 1v1's.

Condi mirage is broken.

I can understand the reasoning behind taking away mirages dodge. A dodge that allows you to use skills while in evade frames and is usable whilst CC'd is crazy strong. And elite specs

should

have a trade off and not be a straight upgrade from core. But If I'm being honest, the nerf only affected glassy power mirages and has left condi mirages untouched. Condi doesn't need 2 dodges when its a walking tank and doesn't need to dodge nearly as much for its survivability. So anyone playing power mirage has my sympathy.

EDIT: Actually has anyone even seen a power mirage since the patch?

So I'd be open to giving mirage back its two dodges, but that would need to come at a price. Something needs to be lost for picking mirage.

So I would amend the title.1 Dodge in WvW is terrible if you're running power.Because even with 1 dodge condi mirage shouldn't really lose to anything at the moment, and when played with an ounce of competence it doesn't.

Condi mirage is so broken that no one plays that kitten.One dodge wasn't the only nerf mirage got, mirage got 2years of constant nerfs under its belt.Sure you can survive but what does it matter if you can't kill anything except baddies.

As I said I can 1vX on wvw easily but it's not because of my skill or that mirage (both power and condi) is op, it is because the average wvw player is awful.

Condi mirages are literally everywhere on the small scale scene in WvW. I get that this is the mesmer forum and its a running theme that everybody who posts about their main claims it to be underpowered, but condi mirage is crazy strong for roaming.

I know I didn't put a hand on WvW for a long time but didn't condi mes lack range pressure for WvW ?Mean looking at what I meet in PvP it's far to be the best for gap closer and hasn't the best mobility.Can't figure how a ranger can lose versus a condi mes in a map were he can easily maintain his kitting to give an example. (Same all no-bus builds who can have more mobility than mes.)

Maybe it's because of WvW runes/sigils/stats but as a PvP player I'm surprised that condi mirages are everywhere considering the current PvP state (And it's not subjective but data based considering mes isn't in semi mAt and only 2 in top 50 LB and looking at recent hellseth stream when he get destroyed, well.).

[HowlKamui.5120]

@viquing.8254 said:

@Doug.4930 said:

@mikdepadua.8376 said:

@Doug.4930 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Leap Of Faith.8263 said:Mesmer is no fun in wvw anymore. Been trying to make mirage work in wvw but it doesn’t work. Lack defense, already squishy, other class can so easily outsustain you without even trying. Mirage is probably the worst elite spec to play in wvw currently. It even beats druid.If anyone find something viable to play then do post on forums, will give it a try.Trailblazer condi mirage with double energy sigil and endurance food is 100% viable in wvw.

If you start arguing now that you don't want to play condi and you don't want to use these sigils, but you want to play mirage, then let me tell you:

I can't play condi reaper, I can't play power core necro. And I don't even need to try to roam on any necro build without rune of speed. Welcome at the level of the rest of the classes with limited viable options. Mirage has been overpowered long enough.

Food is for newbies.And yes condi mirage is viable on wvw (roaming), for one reason:

• people suck in wvw.

...But post nerf after ttk for power builds was greatly reduced (rightfully so) ...

You mean TTK was increased right? TTK being reduced means it takes less time to kill something.

Yes my bad edited.

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Doug.4930 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Leap Of Faith.8263 said:Mesmer is no fun in wvw anymore. Been trying to make mirage work in wvw but it doesn’t work. Lack defense, already squishy, other class can so easily outsustain you without even trying. Mirage is probably the worst elite spec to play in wvw currently. It even beats druid.If anyone find something viable to play then do post on forums, will give it a try.Trailblazer condi mirage with double energy sigil and endurance food is 100% viable in wvw.

If you start arguing now that you don't want to play condi and you don't want to use these sigils, but you want to play mirage, then let me tell you:

I can't play condi reaper, I can't play power core necro. And I don't even need to try to roam on any necro build without rune of speed. Welcome at the level of the rest of the classes with limited viable options. Mirage has been overpowered long enough.

Food is for newbies.And yes condi mirage is viable on wvw (roaming), for one reason:

• people suck in wvw.

Yes but actually no.

Many players don't know how to fight in WvW, so that part is true. But the build isn't viable because people are bad. The build is viable because its essentially a contender for the best roaming build in the current meta. As far as I'm aware it has no counter. Pre patch some burst builds were able to wear it down before it out sustained them. But post nerf after ttk for power builds was greatly reduced (rightfully so) the ability for power to burst down condi mirages has essentially been eliminated when fighting a decent condi mirage. The build has no counter that I'm aware off. It has sustain/stealth/mobility/high hp/high toughness/high condi burst potential. It takes me back to the old pistol dagger perplex thief days. Add to the fact that condi damage was not tonned down in relation to the justified power nerfs and you have the perfect cocktail for the new kingpin of 1v1's.

Condi mirage is broken.

I can understand the reasoning behind taking away mirages dodge. A dodge that allows you to use skills while in evade frames and is usable whilst CC'd is crazy strong. And elite specs

should

have a trade off and not be a straight upgrade from core. But If I'm being honest, the nerf only affected glassy power mirages and has left condi mirages untouched. Condi doesn't need 2 dodges when its a walking tank and doesn't need to dodge nearly as much for its survivability. So anyone playing power mirage has my sympathy.

EDIT: Actually has anyone even seen a power mirage since the patch?

So I'd be open to giving mirage back its two dodges, but that would need to come at a price. Something needs to be lost for picking mirage.

So I would amend the title.1 Dodge in WvW is terrible if you're running power.Because even with 1 dodge condi mirage shouldn't really lose to anything at the moment, and when played with an ounce of competence it doesn't.

Condi mirage is so broken that no one plays that kitten.One dodge wasn't the only nerf mirage got, mirage got 2years of constant nerfs under its belt.Sure you can survive but what does it matter if you can't kill anything except baddies.

As I said I can 1vX on wvw easily but it's not because of my skill or that mirage (both power and condi) is op, it is because the average wvw player is awful.

Condi mirages are literally everywhere on the small scale scene in WvW. I get that this is the mesmer forum and its a running theme that everybody who posts about their main claims it to be underpowered, but condi mirage is crazy strong for roaming.

I know I didn't put a hand on WvW for a long time but didn't condi mes lack range pressure for WvW ?Mean looking at what I meet in PvP it's far to be the best for gap closer and hasn't the best mobility.Can't figure how a ranger can lose versus a condi mes in a map were he can easily maintain his kitting to give an example. (Same all no-bus builds who can have more mobility than mes.)

Maybe it's because of WvW runes/sigils/stats but as a PvP player I'm surprised that condi mirages are everywhere considering the current PvP state (And it's not subjective but data based considering mes isn't in semi mAt and only 2 in top 50 LB and looking at recent hellseth stream when he get destroyed, well.).

i think its popularity in roaming has something to do with its survivability (elusiveness and high hp) and high constant pressure, with enough mobility to chase down potatoes. That and mounts are in the game.

IMO the main difference of pvp and wvw is that in wvw, bad players can run into good players often. And when the roamer is good, it can take on multiple bad potatoes.

[Comus.7365]

eh i hardly ever come across another mirage while i'm out and about in WvW. it's mostly rangers, thieves and some eles.

[pninak.1069]

I don't see mesmer of any use other than portals for zergfights. all the other classes seem to have decent weapons in big scale, while mesmer is forced to play smallscale to exceed in an area. I mean its illusions literally got no purpose in big fights. think number of cmirages went down, because a lot of players seem to switch back to pchrono.

[Doug.4930]

@viquing.8254 said:

@Doug.4930 said:

@mikdepadua.8376 said:

@Doug.4930 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Leap Of Faith.8263 said:Mesmer is no fun in wvw anymore. Been trying to make mirage work in wvw but it doesn’t work. Lack defense, already squishy, other class can so easily outsustain you without even trying. Mirage is probably the worst elite spec to play in wvw currently. It even beats druid.If anyone find something viable to play then do post on forums, will give it a try.Trailblazer condi mirage with double energy sigil and endurance food is 100% viable in wvw.

If you start arguing now that you don't want to play condi and you don't want to use these sigils, but you want to play mirage, then let me tell you:

I can't play condi reaper, I can't play power core necro. And I don't even need to try to roam on any necro build without rune of speed. Welcome at the level of the rest of the classes with limited viable options. Mirage has been overpowered long enough.

Food is for newbies.And yes condi mirage is viable on wvw (roaming), for one reason:

• people suck in wvw.

...But post nerf after ttk for power builds was greatly reduced (rightfully so) ...

You mean TTK was increased right? TTK being reduced means it takes less time to kill something.

Yes my bad edited.

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Doug.4930 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Leap Of Faith.8263 said:Mesmer is no fun in wvw anymore. Been trying to make mirage work in wvw but it doesn’t work. Lack defense, already squishy, other class can so easily outsustain you without even trying. Mirage is probably the worst elite spec to play in wvw currently. It even beats druid.If anyone find something viable to play then do post on forums, will give it a try.Trailblazer condi mirage with double energy sigil and endurance food is 100% viable in wvw.

If you start arguing now that you don't want to play condi and you don't want to use these sigils, but you want to play mirage, then let me tell you:

I can't play condi reaper, I can't play power core necro. And I don't even need to try to roam on any necro build without rune of speed. Welcome at the level of the rest of the classes with limited viable options. Mirage has been overpowered long enough.

Food is for newbies.And yes condi mirage is viable on wvw (roaming), for one reason:

• people suck in wvw.

Yes but actually no.

Many players don't know how to fight in WvW, so that part is true. But the build isn't viable because people are bad. The build is viable because its essentially a contender for the best roaming build in the current meta. As far as I'm aware it has no counter. Pre patch some burst builds were able to wear it down before it out sustained them. But post nerf after ttk for power builds was greatly reduced (rightfully so) the ability for power to burst down condi mirages has essentially been eliminated when fighting a decent condi mirage. The build has no counter that I'm aware off. It has sustain/stealth/mobility/high hp/high toughness/high condi burst potential. It takes me back to the old pistol dagger perplex thief days. Add to the fact that condi damage was not tonned down in relation to the justified power nerfs and you have the perfect cocktail for the new kingpin of 1v1's.

Condi mirage is broken.

I can understand the reasoning behind taking away mirages dodge. A dodge that allows you to use skills while in evade frames and is usable whilst CC'd is crazy strong. And elite specs

should

have a trade off and not be a straight upgrade from core. But If I'm being honest, the nerf only affected glassy power mirages and has left condi mirages untouched. Condi doesn't need 2 dodges when its a walking tank and doesn't need to dodge nearly as much for its survivability. So anyone playing power mirage has my sympathy.

EDIT: Actually has anyone even seen a power mirage since the patch?

So I'd be open to giving mirage back its two dodges, but that would need to come at a price. Something needs to be lost for picking mirage.

So I would amend the title.1 Dodge in WvW is terrible if you're running power.Because even with 1 dodge condi mirage shouldn't really lose to anything at the moment, and when played with an ounce of competence it doesn't.

Condi mirage is so broken that no one plays that kitten.One dodge wasn't the only nerf mirage got, mirage got 2years of constant nerfs under its belt.Sure you can survive but what does it matter if you can't kill anything except baddies.

As I said I can 1vX on wvw easily but it's not because of my skill or that mirage (both power and condi) is op, it is because the average wvw player is awful.

Condi mirages are literally everywhere on the small scale scene in WvW. I get that this is the mesmer forum and its a running theme that everybody who posts about their main claims it to be underpowered, but condi mirage is crazy strong for roaming.

I know I didn't put a hand on WvW for a long time but didn't condi mes lack range pressure for WvW ?Mean looking at what I meet in PvP it's far to be the best for gap closer and hasn't the best mobility.

What it does have is probably the best sustain and damage combo. sPvP is a completely different kettle of fish to roaming WvW. In WvW roaming there is no team synergy to consider, there are no rotations you need to be thinking off, and most importantly of all there are no points to hold. There is only about defeating your opponent through any means necessary. In sPvP a condi memser thats constantly dropping stealth and condi's is probably not ideal. It takes too long to kill your enemy, it can't hold points because it relies on kiting and stealth, and as you said there are other classes with better mobility for rotating points.But put this build into a cage fight and it wins every time. Sure it may take a while if its fighting something with a lot of cleanses, but in the end its ability to tank/sustain and stealth whilst outputting good condi pressure means it will prevail in the end unless a large skill gap exists between opponents.

Can't figure how a ranger can lose versus a condi mes in a map were he can easily maintain his kitting to give an example. (Same all no-bus builds who can have more mobility than mes.)

This may be my personal opinion but I've always held the belief, if you kite away from your opponent and get out of range and reset, then you've basically lost that fight. Might upset a lot of thieves but if you need to reset a fight then you've lost, you've been outplayed. So any ranger that stays and fights a mirage condi mesmer to the bitter end loses every time. A ranger that kites away when they're losing and resets has lost too.

Maybe it's because of WvW runes/sigils/stats but as a PvP player I'm surprised that condi mirages are everywhere considering the current PvP state (And it's not subjective but data based considering mes isn't in semi mAt and only 2 in top 50 LB and looking at recent hellseth stream when he get destroyed, well.).

Gear restrictions in sPvP 100% play a role. Different gear combo's available in WvW certainly allow for a greater variety of builds, which i sort of like tbh. Unfortunately the downside to this the greater variety of builds allow for more broken crap.

[viquing.8254]

@Doug.4930 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Doug.4930 said:

@mikdepadua.8376 said:

@Doug.4930 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Leap Of Faith.8263 said:Mesmer is no fun in wvw anymore. Been trying to make mirage work in wvw but it doesn’t work. Lack defense, already squishy, other class can so easily outsustain you without even trying. Mirage is probably the worst elite spec to play in wvw currently. It even beats druid.If anyone find something viable to play then do post on forums, will give it a try.Trailblazer condi mirage with double energy sigil and endurance food is 100% viable in wvw.

If you start arguing now that you don't want to play condi and you don't want to use these sigils, but you want to play mirage, then let me tell you:

I can't play condi reaper, I can't play power core necro. And I don't even need to try to roam on any necro build without rune of speed. Welcome at the level of the rest of the classes with limited viable options. Mirage has been overpowered long enough.

Food is for newbies.And yes condi mirage is viable on wvw (roaming), for one reason:

• people suck in wvw.

...But post nerf after ttk for power builds was greatly reduced (rightfully so) ...

You mean TTK was increased right? TTK being reduced means it takes less time to kill something.

Yes my bad edited.

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Doug.4930 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Leap Of Faith.8263 said:Mesmer is no fun in wvw anymore. Been trying to make mirage work in wvw but it doesn’t work. Lack defense, already squishy, other class can so easily outsustain you without even trying. Mirage is probably the worst elite spec to play in wvw currently. It even beats druid.If anyone find something viable to play then do post on forums, will give it a try.Trailblazer condi mirage with double energy sigil and endurance food is 100% viable in wvw.

If you start arguing now that you don't want to play condi and you don't want to use these sigils, but you want to play mirage, then let me tell you:

I can't play condi reaper, I can't play power core necro. And I don't even need to try to roam on any necro build without rune of speed. Welcome at the level of the rest of the classes with limited viable options. Mirage has been overpowered long enough.

Food is for newbies.And yes condi mirage is viable on wvw (roaming), for one reason:

• people suck in wvw.

Yes but actually no.

Many players don't know how to fight in WvW, so that part is true. But the build isn't viable because people are bad. The build is viable because its essentially a contender for the best roaming build in the current meta. As far as I'm aware it has no counter. Pre patch some burst builds were able to wear it down before it out sustained them. But post nerf after ttk for power builds was greatly reduced (rightfully so) the ability for power to burst down condi mirages has essentially been eliminated when fighting a decent condi mirage. The build has no counter that I'm aware off. It has sustain/stealth/mobility/high hp/high toughness/high condi burst potential. It takes me back to the old pistol dagger perplex thief days. Add to the fact that condi damage was not tonned down in relation to the justified power nerfs and you have the perfect cocktail for the new kingpin of 1v1's.

Condi mirage is broken.

I can understand the reasoning behind taking away mirages dodge. A dodge that allows you to use skills while in evade frames and is usable whilst CC'd is crazy strong. And elite specs

should

have a trade off and not be a straight upgrade from core. But If I'm being honest, the nerf only affected glassy power mirages and has left condi mirages untouched. Condi doesn't need 2 dodges when its a walking tank and doesn't need to dodge nearly as much for its survivability. So anyone playing power mirage has my sympathy.

EDIT: Actually has anyone even seen a power mirage since the patch?

So I'd be open to giving mirage back its two dodges, but that would need to come at a price. Something needs to be lost for picking mirage.

So I would amend the title.1 Dodge in WvW is terrible if you're running power.Because even with 1 dodge condi mirage shouldn't really lose to anything at the moment, and when played with an ounce of competence it doesn't.

Condi mirage is so broken that no one plays that kitten.One dodge wasn't the only nerf mirage got, mirage got 2years of constant nerfs under its belt.Sure you can survive but what does it matter if you can't kill anything except baddies.

As I said I can 1vX on wvw easily but it's not because of my skill or that mirage (both power and condi) is op, it is because the average wvw player is awful.

Condi mirages are literally everywhere on the small scale scene in WvW. I get that this is the mesmer forum and its a running theme that everybody who posts about their main claims it to be underpowered, but condi mirage is crazy strong for roaming.

I know I didn't put a hand on WvW for a long time but didn't condi mes lack range pressure for WvW ?Mean looking at what I meet in PvP it's far to be the best for gap closer and hasn't the best mobility.

What it does have is probably the best sustain and damage combo. sPvP is a completely different kettle of fish to roaming WvW. In WvW roaming there is no team synergy to consider, there are no rotations you need to be thinking off, and most importantly of all there are no points to hold. There is only about defeating your opponent through any means necessary. In sPvP a condi memser thats constantly dropping stealth and condi's is probably not ideal. It takes too long to kill your enemy, it can't hold points because it relies on kiting and stealth, and as you said there are other classes with better mobility for rotating points.But put this build into a cage fight and it wins every time. Sure it may take a while if its fighting something with a lot of cleanses, but in the end its ability to tank/sustain and stealth whilst outputting good condi pressure means it will prevail in the end unless a large skill gap exists between opponents.Not sure about the cage fight in regards to last 2v2 season.

Can't figure how a ranger can lose versus a condi mes in a map were he can easily maintain his kitting to give an example. (Same all no-bus builds who can have more mobility than mes.)

This may be my personal opinion but I've always held the belief, if you kite away from your opponent and get out of range and reset, then you've basically lost that fight. Might upset a lot of thieves but if you need to reset a fight then you've lost, you've been outplayed. So any ranger that stays and fights a mirage condi mesmer to the bitter end loses every time. A ranger that kites away when they're losing and resets has lost too.I'm not talking about reseting fight but about maintaining a ~900 range distance between the opponent during the fight which basically mean the mirage didn't do any pressure. To keep the example, a ranger has the tools to run out of blink, jaunt and illisionary ambush while putting cripple and bump. Mean I'm pretty sure I win on open field versus any mirage on my 20 hours played ranger. Same with condi rev if the mirage haven't boonclear. Same with core nec as he can fear each gap closer. Not even talking about every class with at least a 20 sec condiclear should be able to manage a condimirage as the only pressuring instant output is F2. All other condi application can be countered.So It's more about

Maybe it's because of WvW runes/sigils/stats but as a PvP player I'm surprised that condi mirages are everywhere considering the current PvP state (And it's not subjective but data based considering mes isn't in semi mAt and only 2 in top 50 LB and looking at recent hellseth stream when he get destroyed, well.).

Gear restrictions in sPvP 100% play a role. Different gear combo's available in WvW certainly allow for a greater variety of builds, which i sort of like tbh. Unfortunately the downside to this the greater variety of builds allow for more broken kitten.That's probably mainly about this which allow edurance spam IMO.

BTW ambushes (and MC) should be tied to few shatter instead of evade as discussed in another mirage post. It would resolved many things.

[Leonidrex.5649]

there is couple of reasons why cmirage is tanky in wvw.1 Lots of toughness2 Lots of vitality3 Lots of evasion due to food/sigils.4 Runes of tormenting are OPOut of all of these almost every class can abuse them.Immagine holo, with https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Adrenal_Implant -> 50% endurance regen, perma vigor -> 50% endurance regen, endurance regen food -> 40%.you cant hit that. EVERY class can be as tanky as wvw bunker mirage. Unlike other classes this is the actually best 1v1 spec there is, the rest is horrible.best outcom you can hope for is to go full bunker and not die.

[Dadnir.5038]

@"Kodama.6453" said:Now to look at mirage: yes, mirage relies on dodges for their new ambush mechanic. Their line of thought might potentially have been that mirages actually have ways to generate more "dodges" than other mesmer specs by utilising the mirror mechanic. Thing is that mirrors simply are not used, tho. In my opinion, creating mirrors should have been a thematical focal point for the entire profession with ways to generate them baked into their class mechanic in some way. As far as I can tell, a mirror is even used as the elite spec symbol to represent mirages.

If they work on mirrors that people might actually use them, then this nerf might make more sense for people.

This exactly.I'd say that the main issue is that ANet packed to much core traits onto shatters with the end result to lock shatters in their design and making the mirror mechanism a difficult thing to add onto them. As an outlet they made the poor choice to put mirrors onto utility skills and later added the dodge trade-off.

Simply put, the trade-off idea was smart but not wise. You just don't make cuts to the base of the profession because there is some optional utility skills with a cluncky way to give you back something that they cut that you might put in your utility bar and use. (Necromancer's Death magic suffer from the same poor design with it's overflow of minions only traits when minons are both cluncky and, well, optional. And this has been an object of complains for years already).

[dubidubidubidu.5308]

@"Vincenzo.3145" said:Can't tolerate a developer that is prejudiced against something they developed. They made a masterpiece of a class that actually took some degree of understanding and mastery in this bland genre and vandalized it in the name of "balance".

Cannot say it better. Its not even about balance anymore, at this point i at least start to believe it is simply bias

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@"Jazz.4639" said:

@"Vincenzo.3145" said:Can't tolerate a developer that is prejudiced against something they developed. They made a masterpiece of a class that actually took some degree of understanding and mastery in this bland genre and vandalized it in the name of "balance".

Cannot say it better. Its not even about balance anymore, at this point i at least start to believe it is simply bias

That's why I don't doubt what Mort said regarding balance team wanting mes to suck.

Some weeks ago Izzy said on reddit that he repents creating trait system, that they should have gone for more skills instead.Can you imagine that? Half of the troubles of mes (and game) would have never existed.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@"Jazz.4639" said:

@"Vincenzo.3145" said:Can't tolerate a developer that is prejudiced against something they developed. They made a masterpiece of a class that actually took some degree of understanding and mastery in this bland genre and vandalized it in the name of "balance".

Cannot say it better. Its not even about balance anymore, at this point i at least start to believe it is simply bias

That's why I don't doubt what Mort said regarding balance team wanting mes to suck.

Some weeks ago Izzy said on reddit that he repents creating trait system, that they should have gone for more skills instead.Can you imagine that? Half of the troubles of mes (and game) would have never existed.

we would just get shit skills, kinda like we do now, with triple/quadruple the counterplay of other, less impact and a high chance they wont work.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@"Jazz.4639" said:

@"Vincenzo.3145" said:Can't tolerate a developer that is prejudiced against something they developed. They made a masterpiece of a class that actually took some degree of understanding and mastery in this bland genre and vandalized it in the name of "balance".

Cannot say it better. Its not even about balance anymore, at this point i at least start to believe it is simply bias

That's why I don't doubt what Mort said regarding balance team wanting mes to suck.

Some weeks ago Izzy said on reddit that he repents creating trait system, that they should have gone for more skills instead.Can you imagine that? Half of the troubles of mes (and game) would have never existed.

we would just get kitten skills, kinda like we do now, with triple/quadruple the counterplay of other, less impact and a high chance they wont work.

XD

Probably, here have 100 skills like crystal sands.

Still I think more skills and no traits would bring a higher build count and easier to balance without rekting everything.

[Yoci.2481]

Balance isn't even the most important thing. Perfect balance is unachievable anyway, but the game should always be fun. That can be the case if there is a clear vision for each profession. Obviously not every class/build can be great at everything, but there should be a nice place for each one. Unfortunately the vision for Mesmer seems to be: "You shouldn't even exist!" It feels like that at least.

[Doug.4930]

@viquing.8254 said:

@Doug.4930 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Doug.4930 said:

@mikdepadua.8376 said:

@Doug.4930 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Leap Of Faith.8263 said:Mesmer is no fun in wvw anymore. Been trying to make mirage work in wvw but it doesn’t work. Lack defense, already squishy, other class can so easily outsustain you without even trying. Mirage is probably the worst elite spec to play in wvw currently. It even beats druid.If anyone find something viable to play then do post on forums, will give it a try.Trailblazer condi mirage with double energy sigil and endurance food is 100% viable in wvw.

If you start arguing now that you don't want to play condi and you don't want to use these sigils, but you want to play mirage, then let me tell you:

I can't play condi reaper, I can't play power core necro. And I don't even need to try to roam on any necro build without rune of speed. Welcome at the level of the rest of the classes with limited viable options. Mirage has been overpowered long enough.

Food is for newbies.And yes condi mirage is viable on wvw (roaming), for one reason:

• people suck in wvw.

...But post nerf after ttk for power builds was greatly reduced (rightfully so) ...

You mean TTK was increased right? TTK being reduced means it takes less time to kill something.

Yes my bad edited.

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Doug.4930 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Leap Of Faith.8263 said:Mesmer is no fun in wvw anymore. Been trying to make mirage work in wvw but it doesn’t work. Lack defense, already squishy, other class can so easily outsustain you without even trying. Mirage is probably the worst elite spec to play in wvw currently. It even beats druid.If anyone find something viable to play then do post on forums, will give it a try.Trailblazer condi mirage with double energy sigil and endurance food is 100% viable in wvw.

If you start arguing now that you don't want to play condi and you don't want to use these sigils, but you want to play mirage, then let me tell you:

I can't play condi reaper, I can't play power core necro. And I don't even need to try to roam on any necro build without rune of speed. Welcome at the level of the rest of the classes with limited viable options. Mirage has been overpowered long enough.

Food is for newbies.And yes condi mirage is viable on wvw (roaming), for one reason:

• people suck in wvw.

Yes but actually no.

Many players don't know how to fight in WvW, so that part is true. But the build isn't viable because people are bad. The build is viable because its essentially a contender for the best roaming build in the current meta. As far as I'm aware it has no counter. Pre patch some burst builds were able to wear it down before it out sustained them. But post nerf after ttk for power builds was greatly reduced (rightfully so) the ability for power to burst down condi mirages has essentially been eliminated when fighting a decent condi mirage. The build has no counter that I'm aware off. It has sustain/stealth/mobility/high hp/high toughness/high condi burst potential. It takes me back to the old pistol dagger perplex thief days. Add to the fact that condi damage was not tonned down in relation to the justified power nerfs and you have the perfect cocktail for the new kingpin of 1v1's.

Condi mirage is broken.

I can understand the reasoning behind taking away mirages dodge. A dodge that allows you to use skills while in evade frames and is usable whilst CC'd is crazy strong. And elite specs

should

have a trade off and not be a straight upgrade from core. But If I'm being honest, the nerf only affected glassy power mirages and has left condi mirages untouched. Condi doesn't need 2 dodges when its a walking tank and doesn't need to dodge nearly as much for its survivability. So anyone playing power mirage has my sympathy.

EDIT: Actually has anyone even seen a power mirage since the patch?

So I'd be open to giving mirage back its two dodges, but that would need to come at a price. Something needs to be lost for picking mirage.

So I would amend the title.1 Dodge in WvW is terrible if you're running power.Because even with 1 dodge condi mirage shouldn't really lose to anything at the moment, and when played with an ounce of competence it doesn't.

Condi mirage is so broken that no one plays that kitten.One dodge wasn't the only nerf mirage got, mirage got 2years of constant nerfs under its belt.Sure you can survive but what does it matter if you can't kill anything except baddies.

As I said I can 1vX on wvw easily but it's not because of my skill or that mirage (both power and condi) is op, it is because the average wvw player is awful.

Condi mirages are literally everywhere on the small scale scene in WvW. I get that this is the mesmer forum and its a running theme that everybody who posts about their main claims it to be underpowered, but condi mirage is crazy strong for roaming.

I know I didn't put a hand on WvW for a long time but didn't condi mes lack range pressure for WvW ?Mean looking at what I meet in PvP it's far to be the best for gap closer and hasn't the best mobility.

What it does have is probably the best sustain and damage combo. sPvP is a completely different kettle of fish to roaming WvW. In WvW roaming there is no team synergy to consider, there are no rotations you need to be thinking off, and most importantly of all there are no points to hold. There is only about defeating your opponent through any means necessary. In sPvP a condi memser thats constantly dropping stealth and condi's is probably not ideal. It takes too long to kill your enemy, it can't hold points because it relies on kiting and stealth, and as you said there are other classes with better mobility for rotating points.But put this build into a cage fight and it wins every time. Sure it may take a while if its fighting something with a lot of cleanses, but in the end its ability to tank/sustain and stealth whilst outputting good condi pressure means it will prevail in the end unless a large skill gap exists between opponents.Not sure about the cage fight in regards to last 2v2 season.

Can't figure how a ranger can lose versus a condi mes in a map were he can easily maintain his kitting to give an example. (Same all no-bus builds who can have more mobility than mes.)

This may be my personal opinion but I've always held the belief, if you kite away from your opponent and get out of range and reset, then you've basically lost that fight. Might upset a lot of thieves but if you need to reset a fight then you've lost, you've been outplayed. So any ranger that stays and fights a mirage condi mesmer to the bitter end loses every time. A ranger that kites away when they're losing and resets has lost too.I'm not talking about reseting fight but about maintaining a ~900 range distance between the opponent during the fight which basically mean the mirage didn't do any pressure. To keep the example, a ranger has the tools to run out of blink, jaunt and illisionary ambush while putting cripple and bump. Mean I'm pretty sure I win on open field versus any mirage on my 20 hours played ranger. Same with condi rev if the mirage haven't boonclear. Same with core nec as he can fear each gap closer. Not even talking about every class with at least a 20 sec condiclear should be able to manage a condimirage as the only pressuring instant output is F2. All other condi application can be countered.So It's more about

Maybe it's because of WvW runes/sigils/stats but as a PvP player I'm surprised that condi mirages are everywhere considering the current PvP state (And it's not subjective but data based considering mes isn't in semi mAt and only 2 in top 50 LB and looking at recent hellseth stream when he get destroyed, well.).

Gear restrictions in sPvP 100% play a role. Different gear combo's available in WvW certainly allow for a greater variety of builds, which i sort of like tbh. Unfortunately the downside to this the greater variety of builds allow for more broken kitten.That's probably mainly about this which allow edurance spam IMO.

BTW ambushes (and MC) should be tied to few shatter instead of evade as discussed in another mirage post. It would resolved many things.

Do you roam WvW or most play sPvP?

I'm only really talking about roaming, but In my experience condi mirage mesmer destroys ranger. Perhaps a condi trapper runes ranger may stand a chance, but most other ranger builds dont cut it. Keeping a competent mirage condi mesmer at 900 range simply isn't feasible. But as I said earlier, arguing that a certain class/build is overturned on that same classes forums is an exercise in futility. I've spent my last few posts of the thief forums (which is my main) trying to convince thief players that thief is still a powerful 1v1 class (to no avail). Perhaps I am mistaken and condi mirage mesmer isn't as good as I've found it to be, but i doubt that the answer to true mesmer balance is going to be found by having a discourse on a subsection of a forum in which people main mesmers.

Perhaps we can find some common ground in saying that power mirage has been hit too hard? And that condi variants really could do with some toning down.

Either way, hopefully Anet will look at build metrics and make appropriate changes. That would be nice right? hahaha

[scerevisiae.1972]

the mirror mechanic

The mirror mechanic is actually good, and could be scaled to work as a viable dmg/mitigation mechanic in WVW, the problem is there isn't anywhere near enough mirror generation, eg: shatters should all generate a mirror at/near the target's location, & all the Deception skills should be generating mirrors. At least then a mesmer could generate AOE dmg without burning their single dodge.

also, i think IH should probably be made baseline.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

Oh my, I need to visit more often class specific sub-forums, since there are such gold mines. Love it.I'll tell you a reason why e-speces for mesmers were slightly nerfed:THEY'RE BADLY DESIGNED FROM THE START.Chronomancer allowing to cast 2x skills was busted.Mirage chaining so much evasion was busted and casting skills while in evasion was busted.And also, no real trade-offs - meaning they're straight-up upgrades to core which is unhealthy for the game as a whole.IMO, both of these e-speces should be deleted and reworked from scratch with considering how it'll be used in PvP/WvW to not make another mistake of powercreeped spec without real drawbacks.Another funny thing is: even though you may say that "mesmer is unplayable" somehow people still are able to find something broken to use. That only shows how badly designed this class is, if one thing will get nerfed that is really broken, after few days there'll be another one.P.S. If you call a class that can be run solely by running macros as a "skillful", just lol. XDP.S.2 I still see a lot of Mesmers in WvW, so they're not that "unplayable" I guess.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@"TrollingDemigod.3041" said:Oh my, I need to visit more often class specific sub-forums, since there are such gold mines. Love it.I'll tell you a reason why e-speces for mesmers were slightly nerfed:THEY'RE BADLY DESIGNED FROM THE START.Chronomancer allowing to cast 2x skills was busted.Mirage chaining so much evasion was busted and casting skills while in evasion was busted.And also, no real trade-offs - meaning they're straight-up upgrades to core which is unhealthy for the game as a whole.IMO, both of these e-speces should be deleted and reworked from scratch with considering how it'll be used in PvP/WvW to not make another mistake of powercreeped spec without real drawbacks.Another funny thing is: even though you may say that "mesmer is unplayable" somehow people still are able to find something broken to use. That only shows how badly designed this class is, if one thing will get nerfed that is really broken, after few days there'll be another one.P.S. If you call a class that can be run solely by running macros as a "skillful", just lol. XDP.S.2 I still see a lot of Mesmers in WvW, so they're not that "unplayable" I guess.

lol people will play what they want no matter how bad they are, I remember peeps playing tahm in league despite his 38% winrate.every single class in this game has toxic mechanics, so lets nerf them for years on end 50% nonstop, patch by patch so they are in the gutter so forum warriors are satisfied.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:lol people will play what they want no matter how bad they are, I remember peeps playing tahm in league despite his 38% winrate.Lol, looking at WvW and these "I main whatever is the cheesest and will give me ez win in current meta" players I highly doubt it.every single class in this game has toxic mechanics, so lets nerf them for years on end 50% nonstop, patch by patch so they are in the gutter so forum warriors are satisfied.I have better idea! Don't release stupidly overpowered elite specializations without real drawbacks so people won't spam after minor changes "x class is unplayable! B U F F I T O R I Q U I T".Especially when Mirage and Chronomancer were busted from the start, since as I've said, they were poorly designed.But it's okay guys! I understand that you want low risk - high reward builds, after all A-net delivered it via elite speces from HoT and PoF and now you can't go back to previous cheese levels. <3

[Leonidrex.5649]

@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:lol people will play what they want no matter how bad they are, I remember peeps playing tahm in league despite his 38% winrate.Lol, looking at WvW and these "I main whatever is the cheesest and will give me ez win in current meta" players I highly doubt it.every single class in this game has toxic mechanics, so lets nerf them for years on end 50% nonstop, patch by patch so they are in the gutter so forum warriors are satisfied.I have better idea! Don't release stupidly overpowered elite specializations without real drawbacks so people won't spam after minor changes "x class is unplayable! B U F F I T O R I Q U I T".Especially when Mirage and Chronomancer were busted from the start, since as I've said, they were poorly designed.But it's okay guys! I understand that you want low risk - high reward builds, after all A-net delivered it via elite speces from HoT and PoF and now you can't go back to previous cheese levels. <3

past is irrelevent, mesmer sucks at WvW, and we as customers expect it to be fixed, will it? propably not.as I said, every single class is equally if not more "toxic" then mesmer or any of its especs, the ONLY exception is warrior, that just fucking suck.You use too much catchphrases that you dont even understand like " low risk high reward", every class has those kind of builds, exept mesmer,play power mesmer in wvw, what I describe is insanely high risk, low reward.As I said before, I have eaten 6k+ rapid fire/shot from soulbeast that can have 2k+ range, bruiser tanky rangers can land 30k rapids on me. this is the risk I am taking to deal any damage whatsoever.

[mortrialus.3062]

Mesmer is never getting buffed again in competative play. Mirage is not getting it's 2nd dodge back. Chronomancer is never getting self shatter or distortion back. Seriously. It's time to just move on. To other classes if you're okay with rerolling. To other games if you aren't.