Ranger damage modifiers

[Chungo.3169]

The damage modifiers and damage coefficients of pets in the ranger are too high, even when they are tanky they do too much damage.

[Nary Why Irk.8150]

Its completely out of control. The amount of rangers in plat is insane. Everyone is abusing the class

[bravan.3876]

Dw Anet will find a way to nerf around the real issues. Just as they did last time (dare you to touch Marksmanship traits). I think deleting the second pet from Soulbeast could be a good way. Easy and low effort and just the stupid nonsense lvl they like atm. It also makes sure that the evil elite spec gets clunky and destroyed and it also makes sure that mindful Solutions of Ranger problems get avoided in any case! Skill cieling, tactical deepness and mechanical complexity increasements need to be avoided in any case in this casual game!Better than doing the insane effort of reworking pets into more utility based mechanics instead passive dmg and passive hard cc. They hate elites anyway.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I run dp thief a lot and I usually poke em and if their good players i gtfo but if their not i can usually down them lol

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

It isn't base pet coefficient damage and it isn't sic em, it's marksmanship modifiers.

I've stated this in a few other threads:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

It doesn't take a top tier player to figure out how to attack a pet.

Look, MOST OF THE RANGER MAINS AGREE that the pet is outputting a bit too much damage for the sustain that Core Ranger possesses. But to the degree of over-powered that people are making this out to be, is seriously being embellished by players who are flat out making the choice to ignore pets rather than attacking them. That embellishment is going to push nerfs on Ranger that will remove its viability, and that very specific Marks/Wild/Beast LB/GS Pet build is the only viable build Ranger/Druid/Soulbeast has left.

Imo, they need to:

1. Leave pet coefficients alone. Nerfing pet coefficients also effects druid, which already has -20% pet attributes and can't run Marks.
2. Bring the coefficients on Maul/WI back to what they were before this recent nerf.
3. Now nerf Marks MOC from 50% to 25%, and AoO on GS from 50% to 25%. Remorseless can stay 25% - This will significantly dampen pet damage kill burst, which is what players are complaining about, but allow pets to maintain gradual damage output. And then despite this nerf, the 2) change will allow Soulbeast to maintain most of the damage it still has now after the recent nerf, and redistribute some damage from the Core Pet back to the Ranger, which it's going to need.

[Eurantien.4632]

Dodge the modified attack and modifiers are gone. Will trade attack modifier for higher sustained dmg.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:It doesn't take a top tier player to figure out how to attack a pet.

why does this keep on getting brought up? you're saying someone should sit there eating lb autos and burning cds just to kill a pet, or los off point to kill and surrender the cap? that's dumb.

[knite.1542]

The ranger police are on the way. This will be good.

[Tazer.2157]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Imo, they need to:

1. Leave pet coefficients alone. Nerfing pet coefficients also effects druid, which already has -20% pet attributes and can't run Marks.
2. Bring the coefficients on Maul/WI back to what they were before this recent nerf.
3. Now nerf Marks MOC from 50% to 25%, and AoO on GS from 50% to 25%. Remorseless can stay 25% - This will significantly dampen pet damage kill burst, which is what players are complaining about, but allow pets to maintain gradual damage output. And then despite this nerf, the 2) change will allow Soulbeast to maintain most of the damage it still has now after the recent nerf, and redistribute some damage from the Core Pet back to the Ranger, which it's going to need.

So your genius idea is to invalidate the marksmanship trait line to bring pets in control? What about the builds that run marksmanship and not beast mastery. I run marksmanship alone with survival and skirmish and my pet hits like a noodle for 25 damage. Changing the traits you mentioned would force everyone to then ditch marksmanship and go beast mastery and it would do nothing to solve the issue. IMO if players want to have their pet do the bulk of their damage then the game should let them do so as pets are part of the ranger class, but putting most of your damage in a pet should come at a risk. A long pet death. I have said this before and there is a hero in Dota 2, the syllabear or the lone druid that has this mechanic, The Syllabear has a bear pet which is very strong. The bear does most of the damage for the hero. The downside is that if the bear is killed, the cd time to resummon a bear is long. GW2 should have the same mechanic.

[Tazer.2157]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:It doesn't take a top tier player to figure out how to attack a pet.

why does this keep on getting brought up? you're saying someone should sit there eating lb autos and burning cds just to kill a pet, or los off point to kill and surrender the cap? that's dumb.

Are you serious? What about the lazy condi fields and traps just dumped on points. You just place the field and watch it do damage for you! It isn't any better than having a pet do damage for you. If you really want active game play, then you should be asking to remove all condi builds and have power builds the only way to play. You hit a player and they take damage, none of this damage over time nonsense.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Tazer.2157 said:Are you serious? What about the lazy condi fields and traps just dumped on points. You just place the field and watch it do damage for you! It isn't any better than having a pet do damage for you. If you really want active game play, then you should be asking to remove all condi builds and have power builds the only way to play. You hit a player and they take damage, none of this damage over time nonsense.

did you quote the wrong person? I have no idea what you're talking about.

[Eurantien.4632]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:It doesn't take a top tier player to figure out how to attack a pet.

why does this keep on getting brought up? you're saying someone should sit there eating lb autos and burning cds just to kill a pet, or los off point to kill and surrender the cap? that's dumb.

Give up cap, kill the pet (only the dps ones), win the 1v1, get the cap. What's wrong with that?

[Poledra Val.1490]

It still surprises me that almost nobody is dicussing how much incredible sustain Ranger has currently. Obviously the pet damage needs to be adjusted but Rangers sustain right now is amazing, there are literally no drawbacks.

[Eurantien.4632]

@Poledra Val.1490 said:It still surprises me that almost nobody is dicussing how much incredible sustain Ranger has currently. Obviously the pet damage needs to be adjusted but Rangers sustain right now is incredible.

It has been mentioned in other threads. WS has always been a huge problem with every viable ranger build. If ranger kept pet dmg but didnt have sustain it wouldnt be as big of a problem. WS provides condi clear, healing with prot, prot, and reduced cds to our best heal, and stunbreaks. Ranger will always have good sustain as long as WS is good. However, we can't nerf WS without compensation elsewhere because if you don't run WS, you are completely paper and useless. So I think they need to spread the love of condi clear and maybe sustain in other traits to force rangers to either 1. Go full tanky and have no dmg. Or 2. Go less tanky but keep current dmg with 2x dps traitlines of BM and MM.

[Seth.8906]

You know why ranger dmg is high? Because all run berserk amulet..

[Poledra Val.1490]

@Eurantien.4632 said:

@Poledra Val.1490 said:It still surprises me that almost nobody is dicussing how much incredible sustain Ranger has currently. Obviously the pet damage needs to be adjusted but Rangers sustain right now is incredible.

It has been mentioned in other threads. WS has always been a huge problem with every viable ranger build. If ranger kept pet dmg but didnt have sustain it wouldnt be as big of a problem. WS provides condi clear, healing with prot, prot, and reduced cds to our best heal, and stunbreaks. Ranger will always have good sustain as long as WS is good. However, we can't nerf WS without compensation elsewhere because if you don't run WS, you are completely paper and useless. So I think they need to spread the love of condi clear and maybe sustain in other traits to force rangers to either 1. Go full tanky and have no dmg. Or 2. Go less tanky but keep current dmg with 2x dps traitlines of BM and MM.

I agree there clearly needs to be some give and take in any spec. Ideally you would always want that for every class universally in pvp but unfortunately that not been the case for some time.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Eurantien.4632 said:Give up cap, kill the pet (only the dps ones), win the 1v1, get the cap. What's wrong with that?

how often does a ranger fail to call pet back but instead let it die off point los? even if it does die saying a ranger without a pet is an automatic loss is a lie, especially soulbeast.

[RisenHowl.2419]

I love seeing rangers defend 4k pet autos and +50% damage modifiers while other players are rocking 2k autos with a berserker amulet and get access to 10% modifiers

edit:right up there with watching eles defend lightning rod's 3.5k crits while every comparable trait isn't able to crit and requires an interrupt vs LR's disable

[Eurantien.4632]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Eurantien.4632 said:Give up cap, kill the pet (only the dps ones), win the 1v1, get the cap. What's wrong with that?

how often does a ranger fail to call pet back but instead let it die off point los? even if it does die saying a ranger without a pet is an automatic loss is a lie, especially soulbeast.

You don't kill the soulbeast pets since they can just refresh them. and Im not sure what you're asking with that first question.

[shadowpass.4236]

@RisenHowl.2419 said:I love seeing rangers defend 4k pet autos and +50% damage modifiers while other players are rocking 2k autos with a berserker amulet and get access to 10% modifiers

edit:right up there with watching eles defend lightning rod's 3.5k crits while every comparable trait isn't able to crit and requires an interrupt vs LR's disable

Reapers have access to up to 345% damage modifiers that are way more consistent than a ranger's. Reaper's Shroud can hit for 8k+ auto attacks if they wanted to. And Lightning Rod only hits for around 2.5k on the light golem on a marauders build. Not sure how squishy you are to be getting hit for 3.5k on a trait with a 800 base power coefficient and around 240% bonus damage (with crit) on the normal build.

That being said, marksmanship's moment of clarity and attack of opportunity on maul could both go down from 50% to 25%. That's already 50% less modifiers and all of a sudden, birds won't be able to hit big autos anymore.

But greatsword needs it's base damage to go back up because hitting 3k maul crits every 5 seconds is horrendous considering that 2 of our 5 weapon skills deal 16 damage, one is our mobility skill that crits for 1.5k, and our autos are awful. Who cares about refreshing a 3k maul? It won't kill anyone unless you hit them with it 7x without them healing over the course of half a minute.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:It doesn't take a top tier player to figure out how to attack a pet.

why does this keep on getting brought up? you're saying someone should sit there eating lb autos and burning cds just to kill a pet, or los off point to kill and surrender the cap? that's dumb.

For years now, Ranger pets have been largely ignorable. This is the first meta where actually targeting the Ranger pet is mandatory at times. But people are so accustomed to the idea that "Ranger pets should be widely ignorable" that they are complaining and complaining and complaining and complaining, instead of adapting. There are 3 rules of thumb vs. Core Ranger that will work for all of you in nearly 90% of all situations presented:

1. Kite birds. Birds have flat footed attacks that are easy to walk away from. Target the Ranger while you kite the birds.
2. Kill the Tiger. The Tiger lunges at you and it isn't easy to avoid the damage. The Tiger has to die before retargeting the Ranger.
3. Ignore other pets and play against them in the same way you always have. Their damage output is bad.

^ So now after getting that flattened out, players utilizing this standard rule of thumb will begin to recognize that pet complaints were mostly a l2p issue and only half the problem. The other half of the problem is that Core Ranger can take both Wilderness Survival and Beastmastery. This means that it gets to benefit all of this from both of those defensive lines. Seriously, take a couple minutes to really look into what's going on here with Core Ranger sustain, between these two trait lines:

• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Natural_Vigor <- Stacked endurance regen with the Vigor from Lightning Reflexes.
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Child_of_Earth <- Muddy Terrain is a WS survival skill, which gets cast when the Ranger uses Troll Unguent which is another WS skill. And then the use of both of those WS survival skills stacks with Wilderness Knowledge trait, which creates a 4 condi clear and a large fury buff as an added synergy by using just Troll Unguent.
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Companion%27s_Defense <- 2s of Protection on every dodge roll.
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rugged_Growth <- More miscellaneous life regen that stacks with normal regen buff & Troll Unguent, and is active anytime Protection is on. For those Core Rangers who are wise enough to know when to swap Resistance to Dolyak, it also stacks with Dolyak #6 misc regen.
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wilderness_Knowledge <- This is where all the condi clear comes from, all of it, 100% of it.
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Resounding_Timbre <- Commands grant life regen buff. So now your Protect Me and Strength of the Pack are both tossing regen buffs that stack with all of the other life creeping regens that Core Ranger has.
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zephyr%27s_Speed_(ranger) <- Happens every time you swap a pet, which is roughly 15s if your pets aren't dying. This skill counts as WS skill, so it is another fury buff and 2 condi clear due to Wilderness Knowledge, as well as a quickness buff.

Now players who don't know the game well are going to read all of this ^ and say: "OH MAN THAT SHIT IS OP AND OVERPOWERED AND WAY TOO STRONG IN UNHOLY WAYS" but the truth is that these two trait lines have worked virtually exactly the same for years now, and they haven't been a problem. So before jumping the gun and calling for every single thing in the Wilderness Survival and Beastmastery lines to be nerfed, listen to me very carefully while I explain where the problem came in with Core Ranger sustain. There are two parts to what happened that created the issue:

1. It had been a very very long time since Core Ranger was truly viable. We were in a DPS meta for so long where EVERYTHING hit you like a marks mod tiger pounce, so of course no one would have noticed pet damage at that point. Then we had pets literally exploding on impact to that kind of damage coming off players, which prevented Core Ranger from running any marks mod magic due to this, making Soulbeast the viable option because it could instantly refresh pets. And then Core Ranger sustain wasn't a thing when there were plenty of builds roaming around that could 2HKO it, such as DEs or DPS Soulbeasts or Heralds or ect ect. All of that gradual sustain that keeps Core Ranger alive over time, counted for nothing when something was popping it for 10k strikes every hit. <- This is why Soulbeast DPS/Sheer mobility & disengage was meta. BUT NOW after the big nerf patch, all of that became inverted. Soulbeast DPS became not so hot, it had its pet swapping in combat removed, and it lost its ability to brawl vs other classes outside of hit & run burst openings. Core Ranger on the other hand, rose up. With 50% of the damage cut out of the game, that gradual Core Ranger sustain began to matter again. And with that 50% damage cut out of the game, it became viable to run pets with marks mod magic, because they didn't die in 2 hits anymore. Seriously though, back in that DPS meta right before the big nerf, a bird or a tiger would had died instantly if caught in a Core Guard burst as example.. But yeah, that's the 1st part of what happened. The main thing to point out here, is that game-wide damage went down, which allowed the survival rate of pets to be adequate to rely on for damage output, and for the gradual sustain of Core Ranger to matter.
2. The 2nd part and the larger part of what happened, is something that non-ranger players would never notice the truth behind and how it greatly enhanced the mechanics of Core Ranger, and that is the buff to Protect Me! Ok so before the buff to Protect Me, if a Ranger or Druid or Soulbeast wanted an Oh S^& button, they had to use Signet of Stone. SOS is a 40s CD for a 3s invuln that works only vs. power damage and it is not a stun break. After the buff to Protect Me!, PM! became a 24s CD stun break that breaks stuns on all allies, that comes with a Protection buff, procs the Regeneration buff from Resounding Timbre, and grants a 4,000 barrier to the Ranger, which works vs. both power and condi. So with older sustain setups, Rangers would have to take SOS, leaving only 2 slots for stun breaks. BUT NOW Protect Me! has replaced SOS as an Oh S^& button, allowing the Core Ranger to take 3x stun breakers, which all are on relatively low CDs mind you. And then their elite is a powerful stability buff. I cannot stress enough, that the bulk of the Core Ranger sustain issue, occurred when Protect Me! was able to replace Signet of Stone on the utility bar. Keep in mind that this oddly placed and clearly unintentional buff, is a very Core Ranger specific issue. Druids & Soulbeasts cannot benefit from this triple bar stun break line up in the same way that Core Ranger can, for reasons that I won't go into right now because it would be too much typing upon what I've already text walled.

I've seen so many people complain about Ranger lately with their rightful objections. The problem is not the complaining. The problem is that people who are complaining and tossing suggestions, have absolutely no idea what they're saying at all, in terms of understanding not only the class itself and how it works and why, but also in terms of having any tangible grasp at all on the intra-class dynamic, and the causes & effects of why things are the way they are now, what is truly responsible for why something is OP or UP, and what will happen to (B) if (A) is nerfed.

[Tharan.9085]

@Tazer.2157 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:It doesn't take a top tier player to figure out how to attack a pet.

why does this keep on getting brought up? you're saying someone should sit there eating lb autos and burning cds just to kill a pet, or los off point to kill and surrender the cap? that's dumb.

Are you serious? What about the lazy condi fields and traps just dumped on points. You just place the field and watch it do damage for you! It isn't any better than having a pet do damage for you. If you really want active game play, then you should be asking to remove all condi builds and have power builds the only way to play. You hit a player and they take damage, none of this damage over time nonsense.

Placing down that condi field actually requires more skill than playing ranger

[shadowpass.4236]

Eh after streaming today for a few hours even with marksmanship modifiers tbh we don't even have enough damage to kill half the builds atm even using broken pets like birds.

Even then, specs like prot holo can just sustain on node infinitely with massive regen and they have a lot more sustained pressure because of how much might they get. Mortar is also nuts and the blind interval should be 3 seconds. 1 blind every second is just so strong coupled with the chill and poison. But yeah while birds are easy to deal with they are also annoying to fight so I'm 100% fine if they get nerfed.

[Chungo.3169]

@shadowpass.4236 said:Eh after streaming today for a few hours even with marksmanship modifiers tbh we don't even have enough damage to kill half the builds atm even using broken pets like birds.

Even then, specs like prot holo can just sustain on node infinitely with massive regen and they have a lot more sustained pressure because of how much might they get. Mortar is also nuts and the blind interval should be 3 seconds. 1 blind every second is just so strong coupled with the chill and poison. But yeah while birds are easy to deal with they are also annoying to fight so I'm 100% fine if they get nerfed.

Not only pets, + 50% modifiers should not exist, and even less with very low cd times. A rev for example using 3 damage modifiers gains + 17% and 20% additional damage is added only if the enemy has - 50% of hp. So it makes sense that even with tanky charms the damage output is good. Can't you kill anything? Or do you mean you can't kill bunkers? If with these modifiers and those kits you can't kill anything ... imagine if those + 50% are in line with the rest and are + 15% 20% :)

[shadowpass.4236]

@Chungo.3169 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:Eh after streaming today for a few hours even with marksmanship modifiers tbh we don't even have enough damage to kill half the builds atm even using broken pets like birds.

Even then, specs like prot holo can just sustain on node infinitely with massive regen and they have a lot more sustained pressure because of how much might they get. Mortar is also nuts and the blind interval should be 3 seconds. 1 blind every second is just so strong coupled with the chill and poison. But yeah while birds are easy to deal with they are also annoying to fight so I'm 100% fine if they get nerfed.

Not only pets, + 50% modifiers should not exist, and even less with very low cd times. A rev for example using 3 damage modifiers gains + 17% and 20% additional damage is added only if the enemy has - 50% of hp. So it makes sense that even with tanky charms the damage output is good. Can't you kill anything? Or do you mean you can't kill bunkers? If with these modifiers and those kits you can't kill anything ... imagine if those + 50% are in line with the rest and are + 15% 20% :)

I mean the damage output is fine. Mostly hitting for 2-4.5k and occasionally bursting for around 7k when all of the modifiers line up.

The issue with birds is that the animation on the F2 is the same as the autoattack so you can't reactively dodge it. Rangers should be able to kill stuff just like any other class and single-hit 50% conditional modifiers aren't a huge deal in the grand scheme of things.