When we nerf thief...no one considers this

[Teratus.2859]

@"UNOwen.7132" said:

Well it's not like nobody mentions this stuff..

Hell I just grabbed this post from another thread on here i've posted in.

"DAN.7314" said:I always see a lot of players that I question if they're playing 100% legit, but it's a poorly balanced game so you never know.

I also see the ones that are completely blatant. A rev last week was chain casting their heal skill (one where attacks heal them) over and over again as 10-20 players were >beating on them in EBG. Went on for several minutes. They had every boon, stun break after stun break, and all they were doing is jumping up and down and trolling. >Same match I saw a duo of rangers who were doing the same thing. No cool downs for their skills. They were a little less blatant, but when they are using their great sword >leap skill 4-5x in a row after starting combat with longbow it was fairly obvious.

Can find that thread here btwhttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/103764/skillhackers-in-wvw-are-getting-very-annoying#latest

There's others reporting on either obvious or subtle behaviours regarding players doing things they should not be able to do.Including things like instant refresh of skills, infinite boons and the HP regen I mentioned etc

I'm not the only one noticing strange things like this and the only explination is cheat software.Hopefully this stuff will start getting caught on livestreams or videos soon and awareness can be raised about it, atm all we have is claims and that's not enough for most people..I guess I can understand that though.

[Tayga.3192]

@UNOwen.7132 said:Reveal skills arent neccessary anyway. But thief needs time to stealth up, if you really have difficulty punishing it normally, just use the reveal skills when theyre in the process of stealthing up and watch them waste resources.

Actually stealthing in combat takes at most Black Powder (1/2s) + Heartseeker (3/4s) (and if they take it, blinding powder) which adds up to 1.25 seconds. With quickness (From Consume Plasma) it becomes 0.625, not that long since you get blinded and even if I interrupt them with F3 they can just Heartseeker again.

[Burnfall.9573]

@Teratus.2859 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:People cry stealth, then they cry about ranger who is pretty evasive, but doesn't really have much stealth or spammable stealth access.

We look for a reason we lose, but if they made changes to stealth or removed it, thief would need a health boost, a change to their stealth attack mechanic, and a damage boost all around.

When you get out played, then you will say they are too evasive.

SO you want a really squishy warrior, but you will say war is evasive.

Look, a game with only necro, guardian, and engineer is f-word boring.

Ranger has access to a lot of stealth too if you build for it, It's just not a core class mechanic like Theif's is.

But yes I agree, I'd rather see Thief loose combat stealth (gain perma or close to it outside combat for scouting) and a little mobility but recieve buffs to their damage, sustain and evade to give them far more of a Assassin style playstyle like in Gw1 which was a much better class imo.

The only problem stealth has is out of combat stealth. In combat stealth is already very weak and has no impact on balance. If anything its out of combat stealth that should be removed.

Then why is it out of all the thieves I fight every single one of them teleports around and constantly keeps stealthing in combat so they can heal and do all sorts of other things while avoiding all damage and skills that require targets

There are plenty of bad thieves. If they try to stealth mid-combat, punish them, its rather trivial. They also dont avoid "all damage" while stealthed, they avoid very little. Cleave them down, hit them with AoEs, use channeled skills.

Good luck cleaving someone who goes from melee combat to about 2000 range away in less than a second.. stealths and then becomes impossible to target with any ranged skills.. and then comes back a few seconds later with full health again.

If theyre already 2000 range away, what exactly do they gain by stealthing, other than wasting initiative? For that matter, if they were able to teleport that far and still were able to stealth, that means they burned shadowstep. One of their only condi clears and stunbreaks. And that means they cant repeat it for 50 seconds. That doesnt sound very effective to me.

It was hyperbole, I don't know the exact range but in general to deter persuit.Some people will still chase a thief even after it's giant teleports, but not if it stealths.If a thief wants to get away they can keep using shadowstep or they can stealth, guess it's upto them on preference, but many from my experience opt for stealth.50 seconds isn't that long of a CD out of combat anyway, specially if you have the option to avoid it which is pretty easy in WvW with the Warclaw.

Oh and while im at it I also noticed today that several thieves I fought REMOVED! my 6 sec reveal debuff after about 1-2 seconds which is the only counter I have against this bs.

I looked that up too once I caught it to be sure and ONLY! Deadeyes have the ability to remove reveal, yet I caught multiple Daredevils removing my reveal so they could keep stealthing.

You mustve been imagining things. Indeed only Deadeye can do that.

No I wasn't, I pay close attention to the target enemy's HP and buffs when I cast reveal on them, It was active for a few seconds and then it vanished. with no flashing indicating it was about to expire.. and that was on Daredevils who then stealthed and broke my target lock.That's not imagining anything, that's cheating.. or using some kind of exploit that I am not aware of and is not intended to be possible.

If such an exploit existed, you would find it mentioned somewhere online. No hack would allow you to do that. Im afraid you are just imagining things.

There are plenty of hacks that allows you to do all sorts of stuff like no clip, fly, infinite teleport, HP restore, cleanse all debuffs, climb walls etcThese tools are always getting upgraded over time, hell even the botting stuff is getting better are replicating human behaviour to avoid bans.

I can't tell you how it happened because I don't know.. all I know is that I cast a skill with a 6 second reveal debuff and the players I cast it on despite not having the ability to remove it did so anyway after less than half of the reveals duration.

When I called it out in map too other people noted that thieves have been stealthing while mounted as well which they shouldnt be able to do either so yeah either stealth is as broken as so many people say it is or far too many thieves these days are running cheat software.

Likewise. That is not possible either (anymore. It was originally, but they changed that).

Not without cheating it's not no, yet people still claim it happens although personally I have not noticed this one myself.

Its just not possible period. If there was an exploit, maybe, but people wouldve posted that exploit within a day of its discovery.

Well here's a week old video of a thief teleporting while mounted.

Just because it's not possible to do legit doesn't mean players can't get around that stuff, that's exactly what cheat software is for and why people pay for it.

People would still be able to ambush someone from stealth, but they'd finally be committed to any fight they choose to engage in and not be able to just run away as easily, though it will still be a possibility but their target will have a chance at running them down and killing them as they should be able to before combat is broken.

Thieves do not use stealth to run away. They use shortbow 5 to run away.

They use a shadowstep to get the distance and then they stealth so you cannot persue them or see where they jump to next giving them a guaranteed chance to break combat and mount before you can chase them down... sometimes they break while stealthed too and re-appear fully healed, witnessed this many times when one of their little ambush's doesnt go their way.

Yeah, no. If they use shortbow 5 to run away, they wont have the initiative to stealth up. They also have no reason to stealth up. Outside of flat ground, no class can catch up with a Thief using shortbow 5. And while on flat ground Warrior could, Warrior would also just kill the thief if he tries to stealth up on flat ground after using one shadowstep, so its equally pointless.

Can yeah, no at that if you wish but it doesn't change what I see in game every day lately.Maybe im just dealing with more cheaters than you.. after catching a few in the act today i'm more than convinced it's more common than previously expected.After all Stealth provides the perfect camo for doing things like restoring all your HP or initiative without an enemy player being aware that you used a 3rd party program to do it.. and they do exist, everyone has seen them by now as plenty of videos have been made showcasing them and what they can do.

And yet I cant find a single video like that. Got a link?

Some guy made one to expose these programs years ago by showing off in detail how one specific piece of software worked, all the usual stuff like flying, no fall damage, cliping etc along with constant Hp regen making him invicible.I can't for the life of me find it now though.. I guess he removed it after the ban wave a while back which I believe he was also caught in for using it.Shame really it was the best video on the subject.

This one from 2 years ago is still up though, doesn't show everything I mentioned but some of them are there like speed, clipping, flying and other stuff.

These programs do exist and have done for years.. Anet may make them redundant for a while but they always get updated and brought back.

'Why won’t they just “fix” it? Sure, servers cost a lot of money, but they’re ANet, they have money! Well the actual issue is not lack of hardware. In fact, the issue isn’t even software. The root of the issue is bad design from the very the beginning. And to “fix” bad design, you have to come up with a new, better design. Which would mean completely rewriting how both the servers work and how your game client works. That’s not easy, and time and manpower required to make those drastic changes will total up far more than the price of a few more server racks. You spent many years developing a game off one design, and now want to completely scrap many things and restart with a new design? Not gonna fly with management, that’s for sure.'

'No matter how hard you try to eliminate these cheaters, you find yourself always behind on the chase. No matter what you do to try and prevent bad things from happening, you can never fix the problem. Why is this? Because you made a bad design choice when making the rules of this race.'

[UNOwen.7132]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Reveal skills arent neccessary anyway. But thief needs time to stealth up, if you really have difficulty punishing it normally, just use the reveal skills when theyre in the process of stealthing up and watch them waste resources.

Actually stealthing in combat takes at most Black Powder (1/2s) + Heartseeker (3/4s) (and if they take it, blinding powder) which adds up to 1.25 seconds. With quickness (From Consume Plasma) it becomes 0.625, not that long since you get blinded and even if I interrupt them with F3 they can just Heartseeker again.

1.25 seconds is a long time in combat. Enough to hit them with burst or CC. Maybe not if they have quickness, but thats a very narrow situation.

[Tayga.3192]

@UNOwen.7132 said:1.25 seconds is a long time in combat. Enough to hit them with burst or CC.I don't use pistol offhand, even if I do it gets blinded.

Maybe not if they have quickness, but thats a very narrow situation.For the thief player, maybe, but for me it's every time I fight a thief.

I think the problem is consume plasma.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:1.25 seconds is a long time in combat. Enough to hit them with burst or CC.I don't use pistol offhand, even if I do it gets blinded.

You can clear the blind with any instant or fast cast skill.

Maybe not if they have quickness, but thats a

very

narrow situation.For the thief player, maybe, but for me it's every time I fight a thief.

I think the problem is consume plasma.

Consume Plasma is far and away the best stolen skill and really really good. It might well be the problem.

[Tayga.3192]

@UNOwen.7132 said:You can clear the blind with any instant or fast cast skill.I do (shatters in melee), but mesmer doesn't have many stuns except for pistol5. I admit, it's a 10/10 anti thief skill when it hits but it's just one skill in one weapon.

Consume Plasma is far and away the best stolen skill and really really good. It might well be the problem.Yeah for sure it is the best one.

I'm fine with thief countering mesmer but I was thinking maybe plasma should not give aegis and stability.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:You can clear the blind with any instant or fast cast skill.I do (shatters in melee), but mesmer doesn't have many stuns except for pistol5. I admit, it's a 10/10 anti thief skill when it hits but it's just one skill in one weapon.

Consume Plasma is far and away the best stolen skill and really really good. It might well be the problem.Yeah for sure it is the best one.

I'm fine with thief countering mesmer but I was thinking maybe plasma should not give aegis and stability.

Nah I think stability is fine, maybe Aegis and Resistance could go though.

[Teratus.2859]

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:People cry stealth, then they cry about ranger who is pretty evasive, but doesn't really have much stealth or spammable stealth access.

We look for a reason we lose, but if they made changes to stealth or removed it, thief would need a health boost, a change to their stealth attack mechanic, and a damage boost all around.

When you get out played, then you will say they are too evasive.

SO you want a really squishy warrior, but you will say war is evasive.

Look, a game with only necro, guardian, and engineer is f-word boring.

Ranger has access to a lot of stealth too if you build for it, It's just not a core class mechanic like Theif's is.

But yes I agree, I'd rather see Thief loose combat stealth (gain perma or close to it outside combat for scouting) and a little mobility but recieve buffs to their damage, sustain and evade to give them far more of a Assassin style playstyle like in Gw1 which was a much better class imo.

The only problem stealth has is out of combat stealth. In combat stealth is already very weak and has no impact on balance. If anything its out of combat stealth that should be removed.

Then why is it out of all the thieves I fight every single one of them teleports around and constantly keeps stealthing in combat so they can heal and do all sorts of other things while avoiding all damage and skills that require targets

There are plenty of bad thieves. If they try to stealth mid-combat, punish them, its rather trivial. They also dont avoid "all damage" while stealthed, they avoid very little. Cleave them down, hit them with AoEs, use channeled skills.

Good luck cleaving someone who goes from melee combat to about 2000 range away in less than a second.. stealths and then becomes impossible to target with any ranged skills.. and then comes back a few seconds later with full health again.

If theyre already 2000 range away, what exactly do they gain by stealthing, other than wasting initiative? For that matter, if they were able to teleport that far and still were able to stealth, that means they burned shadowstep. One of their only condi clears and stunbreaks. And that means they cant repeat it for 50 seconds. That doesnt sound very effective to me.

It was hyperbole, I don't know the exact range but in general to deter persuit.Some people will still chase a thief even after it's giant teleports, but not if it stealths.If a thief wants to get away they can keep using shadowstep or they can stealth, guess it's upto them on preference, but many from my experience opt for stealth.50 seconds isn't that long of a CD out of combat anyway, specially if you have the option to avoid it which is pretty easy in WvW with the Warclaw.

Oh and while im at it I also noticed today that several thieves I fought REMOVED! my 6 sec reveal debuff after about 1-2 seconds which is the only counter I have against this bs.

I looked that up too once I caught it to be sure and ONLY! Deadeyes have the ability to remove reveal, yet I caught multiple Daredevils removing my reveal so they could keep stealthing.

You mustve been imagining things. Indeed only Deadeye can do that.

No I wasn't, I pay close attention to the target enemy's HP and buffs when I cast reveal on them, It was active for a few seconds and then it vanished. with no flashing indicating it was about to expire.. and that was on Daredevils who then stealthed and broke my target lock.That's not imagining anything, that's cheating.. or using some kind of exploit that I am not aware of and is not intended to be possible.

If such an exploit existed, you would find it mentioned somewhere online. No hack would allow you to do that. Im afraid you are just imagining things.

There are plenty of hacks that allows you to do all sorts of stuff like no clip, fly, infinite teleport, HP restore, cleanse all debuffs, climb walls etcThese tools are always getting upgraded over time, hell even the botting stuff is getting better are replicating human behaviour to avoid bans.

I can't tell you how it happened because I don't know.. all I know is that I cast a skill with a 6 second reveal debuff and the players I cast it on despite not having the ability to remove it did so anyway after less than half of the reveals duration.

When I called it out in map too other people noted that thieves have been stealthing while mounted as well which they shouldnt be able to do either so yeah either stealth is as broken as so many people say it is or far too many thieves these days are running cheat software.

Likewise. That is not possible either (anymore. It was originally, but they changed that).

Not without cheating it's not no, yet people still claim it happens although personally I have not noticed this one myself.

Its just not possible period. If there was an exploit, maybe, but people wouldve posted that exploit within a day of its discovery.

Well here's a week old video of a thief teleporting while mounted.

Just because it's not possible to do legit doesn't mean players can't get around that stuff, that's exactly what cheat software is for and why people pay for it.

People would still be able to ambush someone from stealth, but they'd finally be committed to any fight they choose to engage in and not be able to just run away as easily, though it will still be a possibility but their target will have a chance at running them down and killing them as they should be able to before combat is broken.

Thieves do not use stealth to run away. They use shortbow 5 to run away.

They use a shadowstep to get the distance and then they stealth so you cannot persue them or see where they jump to next giving them a guaranteed chance to break combat and mount before you can chase them down... sometimes they break while stealthed too and re-appear fully healed, witnessed this many times when one of their little ambush's doesnt go their way.

Yeah, no. If they use shortbow 5 to run away, they wont have the initiative to stealth up. They also have no reason to stealth up. Outside of flat ground, no class can catch up with a Thief using shortbow 5. And while on flat ground Warrior could, Warrior would also just kill the thief if he tries to stealth up on flat ground after using one shadowstep, so its equally pointless.

Can yeah, no at that if you wish but it doesn't change what I see in game every day lately.Maybe im just dealing with more cheaters than you.. after catching a few in the act today i'm more than convinced it's more common than previously expected.After all Stealth provides the perfect camo for doing things like restoring all your HP or initiative without an enemy player being aware that you used a 3rd party program to do it.. and they do exist, everyone has seen them by now as plenty of videos have been made showcasing them and what they can do.

And yet I cant find a single video like that. Got a link?

Some guy made one to expose these programs years ago by showing off in detail how one specific piece of software worked, all the usual stuff like flying, no fall damage, cliping etc along with constant Hp regen making him invicible.I can't for the life of me find it now though.. I guess he removed it after the ban wave a while back which I believe he was also caught in for using it.Shame really it was the best video on the subject.

This one from 2 years ago is still up though, doesn't show everything I mentioned but some of them are there like speed, clipping, flying and other stuff.

These programs do exist and have done for years.. Anet may make them redundant for a while but they always get updated and brought back.

'Why won’t they just “fix” it? Sure, servers cost a lot of money, but they’re ANet, they have money! Well the actual issue is not lack of hardware. In fact, the issue isn’t even software. The root of the issue is bad design from the very the beginning. And to “fix” bad design, you have to come up with a new, better design. Which would mean completely rewriting how both the servers work and how your game client works. That’s not easy, and time and manpower required to make those drastic changes will total up far more than the price of a few more server racks. You spent many years developing a game off one design, and now want to completely scrap many things and restart with a new design? Not gonna fly with management, that’s for sure.'

'No matter how hard you try to eliminate these cheaters, you find yourself always behind on the chase. No matter what you do to try and prevent bad things from happening, you can never fix the problem. Why is this? Because you made a bad design choice when making the rules of this race.'

Not once have I argued for "fixing" servers..In fact i've said on multiple occasions in different threads that these programs will always end up coming back no matter how many times Anet fix the game to make the redundant.Anet patches the games.. the hacks/bots stop working.. the modders update the mods.. the cheats work again.. it's a never ending cycle.People are always going to make cheats work no matter how secure a game is, so it's a waste of time and resources trying to make your game "un-hackable" because in reality nothing ever truly is.

What i'd rather see Anet do is ban people caught using cheat software and never letting those accounts back in the game.. not some slap on the wrist X amount of days/months nonsense.Force them to buy a whole new full account if they want to come back and take that off them too if they start cheating again.Give them serious consequences to using cheat software.. it's won't deter everyone but it will for many.

The more cheaters put into the game, the more they have to loose if they cheat and get banned, it's really that simple.. and if a bunch of cheaters decide to leave the game after getting banned because they think the punisment is too harsh then honestly, good riddance.I'll have no sympathy for them nor would they deserve it.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:You can clear the blind with any instant or fast cast skill.I do (shatters in melee), but mesmer doesn't have many stuns except for pistol5. I admit, it's a 10/10 anti thief skill when it hits but it's just one skill in one weapon.

Consume Plasma is far and away the best stolen skill and really really good. It might well be the problem.Yeah for sure it is the best one.

I'm fine with thief countering mesmer but I was thinking maybe plasma should not give aegis and stability.

Nah I think stability is fine, maybe Aegis and Resistance could go though.

I dont really see resistance that often, other then rev or FB aoe pulsing resistance is fine.Warrior can get it but only if they spec for it, thief can get it from plasma and thats about it.you dont see mesmers,necro,engi,ranger ever get it, thief only from plasma, warrior if hard spec for it, guard gets it only as FB and rev is broken :D

[Tayga.3192]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:I dont really see resistance that often, other then rev or FB aoe pulsing resistance is fine.Warrior can get it but only if they spec for it, thief can get it from plasma and thats about it.you dont see mesmers,necro,engi,ranger ever get it, thief only from plasma, warrior if hard spec for it, guard gets it only as FB and rev is broken :D

We were talking about only Consume Plasma btw

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:I dont really see resistance that often, other then rev or FB aoe pulsing resistance is fine.Warrior can get it but only if they spec for it, thief can get it from plasma and thats about it.you dont see mesmers,necro,engi,ranger ever get it, thief only from plasma, warrior if hard spec for it, guard gets it only as FB and rev is broken :D

We were talking about only Consume Plasma btw

my bad, i dont read all hat crap tbh.plasma is good against mes becouse condi mes = respower mes = aegis+stab so you cant be touched one way or another

[Burnfall.9573]

@Teratus.2859 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:People cry stealth, then they cry about ranger who is pretty evasive, but doesn't really have much stealth or spammable stealth access.

We look for a reason we lose, but if they made changes to stealth or removed it, thief would need a health boost, a change to their stealth attack mechanic, and a damage boost all around.

When you get out played, then you will say they are too evasive.

SO you want a really squishy warrior, but you will say war is evasive.

Look, a game with only necro, guardian, and engineer is f-word boring.

Ranger has access to a lot of stealth too if you build for it, It's just not a core class mechanic like Theif's is.

But yes I agree, I'd rather see Thief loose combat stealth (gain perma or close to it outside combat for scouting) and a little mobility but recieve buffs to their damage, sustain and evade to give them far more of a Assassin style playstyle like in Gw1 which was a much better class imo.

The only problem stealth has is out of combat stealth. In combat stealth is already very weak and has no impact on balance. If anything its out of combat stealth that should be removed.

Then why is it out of all the thieves I fight every single one of them teleports around and constantly keeps stealthing in combat so they can heal and do all sorts of other things while avoiding all damage and skills that require targets

There are plenty of bad thieves. If they try to stealth mid-combat, punish them, its rather trivial. They also dont avoid "all damage" while stealthed, they avoid very little. Cleave them down, hit them with AoEs, use channeled skills.

Good luck cleaving someone who goes from melee combat to about 2000 range away in less than a second.. stealths and then becomes impossible to target with any ranged skills.. and then comes back a few seconds later with full health again.

If theyre already 2000 range away, what exactly do they gain by stealthing, other than wasting initiative? For that matter, if they were able to teleport that far and still were able to stealth, that means they burned shadowstep. One of their only condi clears and stunbreaks. And that means they cant repeat it for 50 seconds. That doesnt sound very effective to me.

It was hyperbole, I don't know the exact range but in general to deter persuit.Some people will still chase a thief even after it's giant teleports, but not if it stealths.If a thief wants to get away they can keep using shadowstep or they can stealth, guess it's upto them on preference, but many from my experience opt for stealth.50 seconds isn't that long of a CD out of combat anyway, specially if you have the option to avoid it which is pretty easy in WvW with the Warclaw.

Oh and while im at it I also noticed today that several thieves I fought REMOVED! my 6 sec reveal debuff after about 1-2 seconds which is the only counter I have against this bs.

I looked that up too once I caught it to be sure and ONLY! Deadeyes have the ability to remove reveal, yet I caught multiple Daredevils removing my reveal so they could keep stealthing.

You mustve been imagining things. Indeed only Deadeye can do that.

No I wasn't, I pay close attention to the target enemy's HP and buffs when I cast reveal on them, It was active for a few seconds and then it vanished. with no flashing indicating it was about to expire.. and that was on Daredevils who then stealthed and broke my target lock.That's not imagining anything, that's cheating.. or using some kind of exploit that I am not aware of and is not intended to be possible.

If such an exploit existed, you would find it mentioned somewhere online. No hack would allow you to do that. Im afraid you are just imagining things.

There are plenty of hacks that allows you to do all sorts of stuff like no clip, fly, infinite teleport, HP restore, cleanse all debuffs, climb walls etcThese tools are always getting upgraded over time, hell even the botting stuff is getting better are replicating human behaviour to avoid bans.

I can't tell you how it happened because I don't know.. all I know is that I cast a skill with a 6 second reveal debuff and the players I cast it on despite not having the ability to remove it did so anyway after less than half of the reveals duration.

When I called it out in map too other people noted that thieves have been stealthing while mounted as well which they shouldnt be able to do either so yeah either stealth is as broken as so many people say it is or far too many thieves these days are running cheat software.

Likewise. That is not possible either (anymore. It was originally, but they changed that).

Not without cheating it's not no, yet people still claim it happens although personally I have not noticed this one myself.

Its just not possible period. If there was an exploit, maybe, but people wouldve posted that exploit within a day of its discovery.

Well here's a week old video of a thief teleporting while mounted.

Just because it's not possible to do legit doesn't mean players can't get around that stuff, that's exactly what cheat software is for and why people pay for it.

People would still be able to ambush someone from stealth, but they'd finally be committed to any fight they choose to engage in and not be able to just run away as easily, though it will still be a possibility but their target will have a chance at running them down and killing them as they should be able to before combat is broken.

Thieves do not use stealth to run away. They use shortbow 5 to run away.

They use a shadowstep to get the distance and then they stealth so you cannot persue them or see where they jump to next giving them a guaranteed chance to break combat and mount before you can chase them down... sometimes they break while stealthed too and re-appear fully healed, witnessed this many times when one of their little ambush's doesnt go their way.

Yeah, no. If they use shortbow 5 to run away, they wont have the initiative to stealth up. They also have no reason to stealth up. Outside of flat ground, no class can catch up with a Thief using shortbow 5. And while on flat ground Warrior could, Warrior would also just kill the thief if he tries to stealth up on flat ground after using one shadowstep, so its equally pointless.

Can yeah, no at that if you wish but it doesn't change what I see in game every day lately.Maybe im just dealing with more cheaters than you.. after catching a few in the act today i'm more than convinced it's more common than previously expected.After all Stealth provides the perfect camo for doing things like restoring all your HP or initiative without an enemy player being aware that you used a 3rd party program to do it.. and they do exist, everyone has seen them by now as plenty of videos have been made showcasing them and what they can do.

And yet I cant find a single video like that. Got a link?

Some guy made one to expose these programs years ago by showing off in detail how one specific piece of software worked, all the usual stuff like flying, no fall damage, cliping etc along with constant Hp regen making him invicible.I can't for the life of me find it now though.. I guess he removed it after the ban wave a while back which I believe he was also caught in for using it.Shame really it was the best video on the subject.

This one from 2 years ago is still up though, doesn't show everything I mentioned but some of them are there like speed, clipping, flying and other stuff.

These programs do exist and have done for years.. Anet may make them redundant for a while but they always get updated and brought back.

'Why won’t they just “fix” it? Sure, servers cost a lot of money, but they’re ANet, they have money! Well the actual issue is not lack of hardware. In fact, the issue isn’t even software. The root of the issue is bad design from the very the beginning. And to “fix” bad design, you have to come up with a new, better design. Which would mean completely rewriting how both the servers work and how your game client works. That’s not easy, and time and manpower required to make those drastic changes will total up far more than the price of a few more server racks. You spent many years developing a game off one design, and now want to completely scrap many things and restart with a new design? Not gonna fly with management, that’s for sure.'

'No matter how hard you try to eliminate these cheaters, you find yourself always behind on the chase. No matter what you do to try and prevent bad things from happening, you can never fix the problem. Why is this? Because you made a bad design choice when making the rules of this race.'

Not once have I argued for "fixing" servers..In fact i've said on multiple occasions in different threads that these programs will always end up coming back no matter how many times Anet fix the game to make the redundant.Anet patches the games.. the hacks/bots stop working.. the modders update the mods.. the cheats work again.. it's a never ending cycle.People are always going to make cheats work no matter how secure a game is, so it's a waste of time and resources trying to make your game "un-hackable" because in reality nothing ever truly is.

What i'd rather see Anet do is ban people caught using cheat software and never letting those accounts back in the game.. not some slap on the wrist X amount of days/months nonsense.Force them to buy a whole new full account if they want to come back and take that off them too if they start cheating again.Give them serious consequences to using cheat software.. it's won't deter everyone but it will for many.

The more cheaters put into the game, the more they have to loose if they cheat and get banned, it's really that simple.. and if a bunch of cheaters decide to leave the game after getting banned because they think the punisment is too harsh then honestly, good riddance.I'll have no sympathy for them nor would they deserve it.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@Buran.3796 said:

@"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

1) You really want to discuss damage negation? I suppose in your little bubble stealth is the only "way to avoid damage". But sure, whatever goes for anti-thief bias.

2) Oh, you mean, like, disengaging? Hmm, thief sure is the only class capable of doing that.

3) Blocking makes the majority of in-game skills useless, too. Should we be looking to nerf warrior and guardian based on that?

Take a look of how many seconds of block, evades or i-frames most of classes and builds can have in a minute and then look at how many seconds of stealth some classes and builds can stack in a minute. ArenaNet seems happy at putting a 1.75" cast time and huge call at Revenant's hammer #5 which essentially does 0 damage and meanwhile you can get out of stealth with 0 calls with any burst you want in stealth classes. Again, that's FINE for me and I have no problems with the "burst part" of stealth because you can gear and trait any class to endure the opening strike (and that has trade offs); my problem is with HAVING STEALTH AVAILABLE AGAIN to avoid the reprisal. On top of that, heavy armor classes have garbage ranged weapons, so it's very hard to pressure stealth users whick are constantly striking out of nowhere, blinking away, poking at range and entering stealth... The only reason due Eles, Necros, Warriors or Guardians have a place in Conquest is due the control point mechanics, otherwise the PvP would be a invisible fest with everyone hidding waiting for a foe reveal to land a 5 man burst on him.

Yeah, heavy armor classes have lackluster ranged weapons - but two of them have instant gap closers, and power and condi AoE to hit a stealthed enemy. Warrior has magebane tether and other tools.

Revealed lasts 4 seconds, btw, and re-stealthing isn't free-of-cost.

[saerni.2584]

God the forums have gotten bad. Nerf thief because someone playing thief in WvW one time was hacking?

How about we stick to actual discussions of specific skills and not hyperbole and straw mans.

[NotFound.7813]

@Teratus.2859 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:People cry stealth, then they cry about ranger who is pretty evasive, but doesn't really have much stealth or spammable stealth access.

We look for a reason we lose, but if they made changes to stealth or removed it, thief would need a health boost, a change to their stealth attack mechanic, and a damage boost all around.

When you get out played, then you will say they are too evasive.

SO you want a really squishy warrior, but you will say war is evasive.

Look, a game with only necro, guardian, and engineer is f-word boring.

Ranger has access to a lot of stealth too if you build for it, It's just not a core class mechanic like Theif's is.

But yes I agree, I'd rather see Thief loose combat stealth (gain perma or close to it outside combat for scouting) and a little mobility but recieve buffs to their damage, sustain and evade to give them far more of a Assassin style playstyle like in Gw1 which was a much better class imo.

People would still be able to ambush someone from stealth, but they'd finally be committed to any fight they choose to engage in and not be able to just run away as easily, though it will still be a possibility but their target will have a chance at running them down and killing them as they should be able to before combat is broken.

Is there something wrong about thief disengaging on a spvp scenario ? This is the pvp forum not the wvw my friend .

[NotFound.7813]

@Fueki.4753 said:The problem with Stealth and spike damage is that you can't see it coming, so you have virtually no counterplay to it, unless you take a potshot at nothing using the one reveal skill you might have.Also, those other things you mentioned are all complained about in various different threads as well.

Maybe a problem when thief coukd skipe you for 12k backstab the last meta but right now is ez af surviving a thief +1 if u have some cooldowns , anyway i will assume ur dh main and dh isnt a dueler so u shouldnt have that problem

[NotFound.7813]

@Buran.3796 said:

@Vornollo.5182 said:Always funny how people still don't realize that most of the direct damage a Thief does isn't even stealth-based in current post-HoT GW2...Yet for some reason it's the main reason for bashing the thief...The biggest impact that stealth has is when it comes to rotations and movement/positioning. Whether it's on the map in sPvP or around a small area in small scale fights (think WvW).

Main problem with stealth is not the potential for unexpected burst, but the amount of damage it prevents. Aside for AoEs (and thieves have no problems avoiding most of them due their extreme mobility) every damage falls to 0 when a foe is in stealth, because most of skills that deal damage and aren't AoE need a target or at least to cleave a very delimited area to produce pressure. Stealth makes most of those skills temporaly useless and therfore is the largest damage preventing ability in the game.

A thief cant 1v1 and thief is a bad class on a 2v2 or 3v3 so whats the point of preventing or noy damage in stealth?

[Raiden The Beast.3016]

@Teratus.2859 said:

@Raiden The Beast.3016 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:Thief can potentially bring damage, and they have top mobility.

But what other TOP does a thief have?

Are they a top:

• bunker
• healer
• support
• aoe
• burns
• team fighter
• damage
• ect

so when some one says thief can't duel because of x or y...why is the same treatment not given to everyone else when they are "top" in any one of these catagories?

Check it out, stealth is not the only "toxic" mechanic in the game.

Because none of those things allow you to turn invisible, heal and buff and then blast ...

I stopped at "blast" someone ... "noodle" someone is actual the case.

Classes r still to mobile to play the pure decap role and make profit out off it, +1 takes forever since bunki bonki and noodle damage. Nerf mobility across the board, BUFF TEEF or nerf Bunki Bonki

Blast doesn't mean one shot, just a significant amount of damage in a short time.Thief can do this, just not as well as it used to back when stealth ambush stunlock tactics was a god kitten pestilence on thief builds.

Only thing they really struggle with are tankier builds which can absorb it.. which are more common these days than they used to be.Even then most thieves still have almost 100% flee success due to their unmatched mobility.

Who is talking about one shot ? ... Teef is noodle damage , +1 takes forever no matter what class bc of NOODLE dmg, other classes mobiliy is still to high. Flee teef, new role?

[Teratus.2859]

@wevh.2903 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:People cry stealth, then they cry about ranger who is pretty evasive, but doesn't really have much stealth or spammable stealth access.

We look for a reason we lose, but if they made changes to stealth or removed it, thief would need a health boost, a change to their stealth attack mechanic, and a damage boost all around.

When you get out played, then you will say they are too evasive.

SO you want a really squishy warrior, but you will say war is evasive.

Look, a game with only necro, guardian, and engineer is f-word boring.

Ranger has access to a lot of stealth too if you build for it, It's just not a core class mechanic like Theif's is.

But yes I agree, I'd rather see Thief loose combat stealth (gain perma or close to it outside combat for scouting) and a little mobility but recieve buffs to their damage, sustain and evade to give them far more of a Assassin style playstyle like in Gw1 which was a much better class imo.

People would still be able to ambush someone from stealth, but they'd finally be committed to any fight they choose to engage in and not be able to just run away as easily, though it will still be a possibility but their target will have a chance at running them down and killing them as they should be able to before combat is broken.

Is there something wrong about thief disengaging on a spvp scenario ? This is the pvp forum not the wvw my friend .

The problem exists with the class not the game mode.

[UNOwen.7132]

@wevh.2903 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:The problem with Stealth and spike damage is that you can't see it coming, so you have virtually no counterplay to it, unless you take a potshot at

nothing

using the one reveal skill you

might

have.Also, those other things you mentioned are

all

complained about in various different threads as well.

Maybe a problem when thief coukd skipe you for 12k backstab the last meta but right now is ez af surviving a thief +1 if u have some cooldowns , anyway i will assume ur dh main and dh isnt a dueler so u shouldnt have that problem

They couldnt even hit you for anywhere close to 12k backstabs last patch. They hit for 7k, 9k tops.

[NotFound.7813]

@Teratus.2859 said:

@wevh.2903 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:People cry stealth, then they cry about ranger who is pretty evasive, but doesn't really have much stealth or spammable stealth access.

We look for a reason we lose, but if they made changes to stealth or removed it, thief would need a health boost, a change to their stealth attack mechanic, and a damage boost all around.

When you get out played, then you will say they are too evasive.

SO you want a really squishy warrior, but you will say war is evasive.

Look, a game with only necro, guardian, and engineer is f-word boring.

Ranger has access to a lot of stealth too if you build for it, It's just not a core class mechanic like Theif's is.

But yes I agree, I'd rather see Thief loose combat stealth (gain perma or close to it outside combat for scouting) and a little mobility but recieve buffs to their damage, sustain and evade to give them far more of a Assassin style playstyle like in Gw1 which was a much better class imo.

People would still be able to ambush someone from stealth, but they'd finally be committed to any fight they choose to engage in and not be able to just run away as easily, though it will still be a possibility but their target will have a chance at running them down and killing them as they should be able to before combat is broken.

Is there something wrong about thief disengaging on a spvp scenario ? This is the pvp forum not the wvw my friend .

The problem exists with the class not the game mode.

that makes 0 sense

[NotFound.7813]

@Teratus.2859 said:

@wevh.2903 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:People cry stealth, then they cry about ranger who is pretty evasive, but doesn't really have much stealth or spammable stealth access.

We look for a reason we lose, but if they made changes to stealth or removed it, thief would need a health boost, a change to their stealth attack mechanic, and a damage boost all around.

When you get out played, then you will say they are too evasive.

SO you want a really squishy warrior, but you will say war is evasive.

Look, a game with only necro, guardian, and engineer is f-word boring.

Ranger has access to a lot of stealth too if you build for it, It's just not a core class mechanic like Theif's is.

But yes I agree, I'd rather see Thief loose combat stealth (gain perma or close to it outside combat for scouting) and a little mobility but recieve buffs to their damage, sustain and evade to give them far more of a Assassin style playstyle like in Gw1 which was a much better class imo.

People would still be able to ambush someone from stealth, but they'd finally be committed to any fight they choose to engage in and not be able to just run away as easily, though it will still be a possibility but their target will have a chance at running them down and killing them as they should be able to before combat is broken.

Is there something wrong about thief disengaging on a spvp scenario ? This is the pvp forum not the wvw my friend .

The problem exists with the class not the game mode.

still thief cant 1v1 thief cant take almost no 2v2 and definitely no 3v3 whats the problem disengaging from 1v11? every class can disengage of a 1v1 since u leave the node and disengaging 2v2 same stuff plus ur teammate gets ez kolled if cant disengage so its not class problem . i guess ur wvw player i can name endless stuff that are brokn in wvw actually xd

[caveman.5840]

i love how i can leave this game for 2 years at a time come back to check in on it and the forums say the same thing i wish i never payed for HOT, this game was so much fun at release but Anet is just a bunch of PVE soy lovers who cant do anything with there competitive modes that gives the game its value in replay-ability !

[Kicast.1459]

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:Thief can potentially bring damage, and they have top mobility.

But what other TOP does a thief have?

Are they a top:

• bunker
• healer
• support
• aoe
• burns
• team fighter
• damage
• ect

so when some one says thief can't duel because of x or y...why is the same treatment not given to everyone else when they are "top" in any one of these catagories?

Check it out, stealth is not the only "toxic" mechanic in the game.

you can't be a good dueller with top mobility.if you are you shut down all classes weaker than you.this is braindead easy to understand...but Anet.is still strufgling at it.

Why the hell thief remains top mobility since beginning of the game ?And nerf short bow 5...for love of god.