Black Lion Chests Poor Loot

[MarkBecks.6453]

So very short, I bought 25 keys in batches of 5, and probably got the first 7 items tier 1 in order, Dyes, transmutation, revive orb, miniature and some T6 mats. I would like to know if this is regulated as it is in a sense "gambling", and to be honest, I have never in 8 years of playing experienced such low grade, pointless drops from something that cost me time and effort to purchase. I have most of the Dyes, I have 700 Transmutation stones, I have about 50 revive orbs, I have many many miniatures, 60 teleport to friend. I think in all honestly the total gold spent was about 160+ per 5 chest which totals somewhere in the region of 800-900 gold, for a return of no more that 15-20 gold. I am not angry, just....disappointed :)

[Bear.9568]

Simple answer is; Korean game development. Anet is owned by NCSoft who is also happens to be under the NEXON umbrella. Korean devs weight games heavily toward RNG which creates a "Rare" factor that psychologically makes the player want to obtain these "Rare" items by...... spending money!

I could go on but there is no need.

[kharmin.7683]

(sigh) Is this yet another RNG is gambling thread?

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

NCSoft is not owned by Nexon.

When dealing with Black Lion Chests, there is always a chance that you will not receive whatever it is you are hoping for.Of course, there is always the chance you will, as well.

I bought one Key and didn't get anything special that I can remember. A Key dropped for me in the Fire and Steel Strike Mission, and with that Key I got the SAB Raptor skin. It wasn't what I wanted. /shrug

[Strider Pj.2193]

Keys are bad. Keys are good. Meh... depends on what you enjoy.

Somewhat off topic: And what is with all the NEXON stuffs now? I can only imagine someone got laid off by them so now we have two to three threads mentioning sideways info that they are ‘bad’. After being on the forums for the last few years, this is the first day I’ve seen them mentioned here.

[Danikat.8537]

That is the risk you take with buying black lion keys. In terms of the mechanics they are gambling - you're paying for a chance, a roll of the virtual dice, not a guarentee of the item you want or something valuable. They're not covered by gambling legislation in the vast majority of places because like most loot boxes they're designed so they don't meet the legal definition of gambling in most countries. The reasons for that vary depending on which countries gambling laws you're looking at, but common ones include the fact that you're guarenteed to get something and all the possible prizes are known beforehand, and because legally none of the prizes have any monetary value and cannot be sold.

Ultimately you should never expect to get anything other than common items from black lion chests, and shouldn't assume you'll get the ones you want from that list either. If you're not willing to risk buying keys and ending up with nothing worth having the only solution is to not buy keys.

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:I bought one Key and didn't get anything special that I can remember. A Key dropped for me in the Fire and Steel Strike Mission, and with that Key I got the SAB Raptor skin. It wasn't what I wanted. /shrug

Sometimes I think that's worse. It's disappointing to not get what you wanted, but for me it's more disappointing to get something I know is technically a good drop and another player would be happy with it but I don't want it and won't use it and I can't give or sell it to someone who does want it.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:Keys are bad. Keys are good. Meh... depends on what you enjoy.

Somewhat off topic: And what is with all the NEXON stuffs now? I can only imagine someone got laid off by them so now we have two to three threads mentioning sideways info that they are ‘bad’. After being on the forums for the last few years, this is the first day I’ve seen them mentioned here.

There were a few threads and several posts about Nexon/NCSoft when they sold off every last one of their shares in NCSoft back in 2015. Of course, that was on the old official forum.

[Comus.7365]

it seems to be mostly trash. at least you get that yellow lion head thing that can be used to buy some stuff.i kind of avoid them now though because i hate getting those useless blue items that you have to type in the name of to delete.

[Westenev.5289]

Ever since they removed hair/makeover kits off the drop table, it quickly became apparent there really was nothing I want in black lion chests.

[moonstarmac.4603]

@"MarkBecks.6453" said:So very short, I bought 25 keys in batches of 5, and probably got the first 7 items tier 1 in order, Dyes, transmutation, revive orb, miniature and some T6 mats. I would like to know if this is regulated as it is in a sense "gambling", and to be honest, I have never in 8 years of playing experienced such low grade, pointless drops from something that cost me time and effort to purchase. I have most of the Dyes, I have 700 Transmutation stones, I have about 50 revive orbs, I have many many miniatures, 60 teleport to friend. I think in all honestly the total gold spent was about 160+ per 5 chest which totals somewhere in the region of 800-900 gold, for a return of no more that 15-20 gold. I am not angry, just....disappointed :)

I feel you. 2 years ago when I'd open 25 BLCs I'd get 2-3 "Uncommon" or better items. I opened 25 the other day...got 1. Honestly though, I wish they would rework the BLC system already. Before the 'guaranteed item' stuff it seems the rates were much higher for Uncommon and Higher drops. Now it is One Statuette (which can be good once you get 50 for a gold key), guaranteed season item (99% of the time trash), two common items. Get rid of the Dye packs and Crafting mats, leave the unlock packs.

[kharmin.7683]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:I bought one Key and didn't get anything special that I can remember. A Key dropped for me in the Fire and Steel Strike Mission, and with that Key I got the SAB Raptor skin. It wasn't what I wanted. /shrugI did some core map completions on a few alts and have acquired about a dozen keys. I'm waiting for the next BLC rotation so that I don't get that SAB raptor skin. Ugh.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:Keys are bad. Keys are good. Meh... depends on what you enjoy.

Somewhat off topic: And what is with all the NEXON stuffs now? I can only imagine someone got laid off by them so now we have two to three threads mentioning sideways info that they are ‘bad’. After being on the forums for the last few years, this is the first day I’ve seen them mentioned here.

There were a few threads and several posts about Nexon/NCSoft when they sold off every last one of their shares in NCSoft back in 2015. Of course, that was on the old official forum.

Ahhh... I didn’t spend much time on the forum then. Thank you for that.

[Josiah.2967]

They really need to add a "Pity" timer to people that pay. I spent hundreds getting the Starlight Back/Glider. I do not regret my purchase (I no longer use it); however, I will not do that again. My loot drops were unreasonably terrible. It only took one really bad experience to save my thousands in the future. So I guess it worked out.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

@"MarkBecks.6453" said:So very short, I bought 25 keys in batches of 5, and probably got the first 7 items tier 1 in order, Dyes, transmutation, revive orb, miniature and some T6 mats. I would like to know if this is regulated as it is in a sense "gambling",

No such regulation currently exists. There was a kerfuffle a while ago about loot boxes brought about by the egregious nature of the ones in Star Wars Battlefront II. It gained ground for a while, but has fallen out of the news in the past few months as legislators have bigger concerns. The only change ANet made to BLC mechanics as a result was to introduce Statuettes and to periodically stock the Statuette vendor with items -- though the "latest" inducement items never seem to get into that list until much later, if at all.

and to be honest, I have never in 8 years of playing experienced such low grade, pointless drops from something that cost me time and effort to purchase. I have most of the Dyes, I have 700 Transmutation stones, I have about 50 revive orbs, I have many many miniatures, 60 teleport to friend.

If you think about it, the BLC drop tables are a microcosm of the game's drop tables for loot. Huge amounts of extremely minor stuff and a minuscule chance to get anything that you really wanted.

I think in all honestly the total gold spent was about 160+ per 5 chest which totals somewhere in the region of 800-900 gold, for a return of no more that 15-20 gold. I am not angry, just....disappointed :)

Imagine how much more disappointed you'd have been if you'd paid cash. This system is a boon only for those who enjoy the thrill of opening the chest and don't care so much for the cost. Anyone who uses it expecting to get something they want -- though that does happen sometimes -- is likely to be disappointed. The system is not going to change unless it stops bringing in revenue or unlikely legislation bars it, so the best solution for avoiding disappointment is to avoid the system.

[Peteroid.2638]

it would be cool if they gave players the ability to turn 9 chests in for one key... that way one could get one chest open for 10 chests found without spending gems... (ps.. my number of 10 is arbitrary.. just for example)...

[Solvar.7953]

Turning chests in for keys may inflate the prices of black lion chests. Currently, a key costs about 25-40 gold (based on converting gold to gems, then using it to buy keys - actual exchange ratio is whether 1 key or 25 keys are being bought, because large quantities get a discount).Black lion chest sells for about 5 sp. So to keep things at the current exchange, it would need to be about 500 black lion chests. If the exchange was lower (100 chests), people would keep buying chests to turn into keys until price of black lion chests balances (25 sp/chest).The problem is that none of this makes Anet money - even people buying gems with gold makes Anet some money, because someone had to buy those gems at some point.

[Rogue.8235]

The way I see it, I use BL keys if the chest contains a guaranteed item I actually want. I open them for these items and (now) the statuettes. Everything else is just extra goodie stuff.

There usually isn't a guaranteed item I'll pay gems for keys over, but sometimes there is. With this mindset, I'm never ever disappointed by the black lion chests.

Current guaranteed item as of this writing is some sort of red dye thingy. Not something I'm interested in so I'll save what keys I have for the next cycle. If you don't care for the red dye thingy, don't use keys.

My favorite was the key vouchers. Not sure how long ago that was, but I got a lot of exalted keys and machetes before I even started playing HoT maps. The keys lasted a very long while and I was able to use them in my home instance. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. If there's a guaranteed item you'll really like, use keys then. If not, skip over it.

[kharmin.7683]

@Peteroid.2638 said:it would be cool if they gave players the ability to turn 9 chests in for one key... that way one could get one chest open for 10 chests found without spending gems... (ps.. my number of 10 is arbitrary.. just for example)...

Cool, probably, but then this would impact the number of keys actually purchased I think.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

Play stupid games win stupid prizes. Stop buying keys and anet will stop using them for monization.

[kharmin.7683]

Well, some people like stupid prizes.

Not me, though.

[Vrath.1754]

@"Josiah.2967" l:They really need to add a "Pity" timer to people that pay. I spent hundreds getting the Starlight Back/Glider. I do not regret my purchase (I no longer use it); however, I will not do that again. My loot drops were unreasonably terrible. It only took one really bad experience to save my thousands in the future. So I guess it worked out.

I mean isnt that what the black lion statues are? Eventually the items cycle through there.

It the OPs topic. Idk I have no issue with them, dont like grab bags dont buy them. People need to take some personal responsibility it doesnt require regulations.

When I was a kid my local sports card store had grab bags with packs of older baseball cards I loved them. Always got low value cards like Jay Buhner, no Griffey rookie cards in my bags. Some comic shops did similar things.

That's how I view the chest expect to get low value items then if you get what you perceive as a high value item you'll be excited and if it's a perceived low value item, it's to be expected.

[Josiah.2967]

@Vrath.1754 said:

@"Josiah.2967" l:They really need to add a "Pity" timer to people that pay. I spent hundreds getting the Starlight Back/Glider. I do not regret my purchase (I no longer use it); however, I will not do that again. My loot drops were unreasonably terrible. It only took one really bad experience to save my thousands in the future. So I guess it worked out.

I mean isnt that what the black lion statues are? Eventually the items cycle through there.

It the OPs topic. Idk I have no issue with them, dont like grab bags dont buy them. People need to take some personal responsibility it doesnt require regulations.

When I was a kid my local sports card store had grab bags with packs of older baseball cards I loved them. Always got low value cards like Jay Buhner, no Griffey rookie cards in my bags. Some comic shops did similar things.

That's how I view the chest expect to get low value items then if you get what you perceive as a high value item you'll be excited and if it's a perceived low value item, it's to be expected.

Let's take Hearthstone as a good example:1.) Has a pity timer: This guarantees a Rare, Epic, or Legendary after a threshold is met. That way there is minimum amount of bad luck you can have. This allows you to get things now.2.) Unique Rewards (In this game that could be unlocks): (You get every legendary before you can get a duplicate)3.) Dust (Equivalent of Statues); however, you can unlock anything right away.

[kharmin.7683]

I don't find that to be a good example at all. Guaranteed rare, epic or legendary items makes them less rare, epic or legendary. In my opinion.

[Kulvar.1239]

First rule of online game shop : If you don't know what you'll get, don't buy it with real money.First rule of gambling : Don't use money you can't afford to waste

[Friday.7864]

Last time I bought keys I bought 25 at once, didn't get a SINGLE rare/5th item. So for spending around 25€ I got showered with junk.I also wasn't mad, just shocked and disappointed. Haven't bought a single key since then, nor do I plan to, no matter what they put in that chest.

And let's be clear, I wasnt expecting to get anything close to the 400g+ I would have gotten by simply converting.My previous experiences with Black Lion keys were far from stellar so I wasn't chasing profits or super rare items.Would have been ok (not happy, but still ok) with at least a 50g node, but nope, they took even the tiniest bit of excitement out of opening those chests from me ^^

You guys can keep spouting "But RNG is RNG!!!" all day long.There should be a cutoff where people are given at least something, a fraction of the value they invested back imo.Such kitten consecutive drop rates aren't just bad for the players but also for the ones selling the darn keys.That being said, I'm outta this thread o7