Nerf grenades, explosive entrance and sword damage on holosmith

[Shiyo.3578]

@Svez Poizon XD.5268 said:

@"lovemghool.7613" said:Coming from a Kalla/Jallis renegade main, this sounds hilarious

no we dont need more damage nerfs. but we need more viable builds

now go back to crying about burn guards

Stay on topic, if you want to make thread about what i play and how i play, do it.

There are many engis in every game, more precisely "holosmith" engis and they always do the most damage after every game. Even jalis/khalla can't tank them with protection boon, weakness condi on them, stability, heals etc it is rdicilous. Hope devs will do some analyze. Holo got that trait which makes its heat max to 150% which boosts sword damage but also boosting might. So with it, it does so much damage with sword all skills. Grenades seems to scale so well with power with 0.33 power coeficient and since there are 3 grenades, it rises to 1. Blind is also problematic there, explosive entrance should be trait that can't crit as many other traits currently in the game. You can't kite it, because it kites you, you can't outsustain because it can outsustain even better, it is very mobile, very oppressive for no cons. I suggest some cut off from its kit. To be honest i don't support ability for one class/spec to be good in everything, there should be roles, strengths and weaknesses for each class, holosmith has no weakneses but only if it is so bad to overheat itself and take self damage which never happens.....

Yeah, doing everything with no weakness is what the feb mega patch was trying to fix but then you have classes like holosmith that ignored this game changing transition and it's no wonder it's so strong.

Elixir S is a good example of how completely overloaded the classes kit is Toss elixir S should absolutely not give stealth and should be moved to another, lesser used elixir. Why should the best defensive elixir also give stealth? That's bloated and too powerful.

[Kuma.1503]

If we're going to advocate to nerf a build. Lets try to avoid hyperbolic statements. Yes, losing to a precieved OP build is frustating, but taking that frustration out in the form of a salty misinformed post accomplishes nothing.

Does Explosives Holosmith lack weaknesses?

Lets look at the current standard setup:

It runs Alchemy and Explosives. It does not run inventions, meaning it's not running Anticorosion plating.For utilities it runs Elixir S, Elixir U, and Nades. Elite is either Mortar or Elixir X. It makes excellent use out of the HGH trait, but you might notice a lack of cleanses on it's utilities as well.

It attempts to remedy this to some extent by running rune of revenant, granting them 2 seconds of resistance on heal. It also has a passive cleanse when it's conditions exceed 3 on a 60 second cooldown.

In short. Explosives Holo is weak to condition pressure. Given how prevalent conditions are in the meta right now, this is no insiginificant con to have.

It can shore up this weaknesses by replacing nades with Elixir Gun, running Heal turret, and swapping out for rune of resistance, but this comes at a significant dps loss.

I should note. I am not confirming or denying that the build is too strong. I am pointing out that the statement "Explosives Engi does everything well with no cons" Is grossly hyperbolic.

[Shiyo.3578]

@"Kuma.1503" said:If we're going to advocate to nerf a build. Lets try to avoid hyperbolic statements. Yes, losing to a precieved OP build is frustating, but taking that frustration out in the form of a salty misinformed post accomplishes nothing.

Does Explosives Holosmith lack weaknesses?

Lets look at the current standard setup:

It runs Alchemy and Explosives. It does not run inventions, meaning it's not running Anticorosion plating.For utilities it runs Elixir S, Elixir U, and Nades. Elite is either Mortar or Elixir X. It makes excellent use out of the HGH trait, but you might notice a lack of cleanses on it's utilities as well.

It attempts to remedy this to some extent by running rune of revenant, granting them 2 seconds of resistance on heal. It also has a passive cleanse when it's conditions exceed 3 on a 60 second cooldown.

In short. Explosives Holo is weak to condition pressure. Given how prevalent conditions are in the meta right now, this is no insiginificant con to have.

It can shore up this weaknesses by replacing nades with Elixir Gun, running Heal turret, and swapping out for rune of resistance, but this comes at a significant dps loss.

I should note. I am not confirming or denying that the build is too strong. I am pointing out that the statement "Explosives Engi does everything well with no cons" Is grossly hyperbolic.

No, it probably has some of the best condition cleanse in the game.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Prismatic_Converter+https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Enhanced_Capacity_Storage_Unit

The class, and build specifically, is most def NOT lacking in condition cleanse. You want a class lacking in condi cleanse? Weaver, especially LR weaver.

[hotte in space.2158]

@"UNOwen.7132" said:Just to make sure youre aware, you do know Holo doesnt have a smoke field, right? The only one it could use is in Bomb kit, but you dont run bomb kit. Their stealth >comes from Throw Elixir S.I meant smoke bomb/inventions traitlineIts "paved" rather than surfaced actually. English also has that proverb.Thx for correcting me^^ I must admit that actually I have no idea of PvP and I am just here in the forum to improve my english :)

[anjo.6143]

@UNOwen.7132 said:Youre joking right? We already have the overall damage being so low that no one dies without being outnumbered, and the sidenoder meta is knocking back to decap, and you want to nerf damage further? What a joke.

Holo has low dmg ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????No one dies to Holo ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I wanna buy this game, where do I find it?

[choovanski.5462]

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@"Kuma.1503" said:If we're going to advocate to nerf a build. Lets try to avoid hyperbolic statements. Yes, losing to a precieved OP build is frustating, but taking that frustration out in the form of a salty misinformed post accomplishes nothing.

Does Explosives Holosmith lack weaknesses?

Lets look at the current standard setup:

It runs Alchemy and Explosives. It does not run inventions, meaning it's not running Anticorosion plating.For utilities it runs Elixir S, Elixir U, and Nades. Elite is either Mortar or Elixir X. It makes excellent use out of the HGH trait, but you might notice a lack of cleanses on it's utilities as well.

It attempts to remedy this to some extent by running rune of revenant, granting them 2 seconds of resistance on heal. It also has a passive cleanse when it's conditions exceed 3 on a 60 second cooldown.

In short. Explosives Holo is weak to condition pressure. Given how prevalent conditions are in the meta right now, this is no insiginificant con to have.

It can shore up this weaknesses by replacing nades with Elixir Gun, running Heal turret, and swapping out for rune of resistance, but this comes at a significant dps loss.

I should note. I am not confirming or denying that the build is too strong. I am pointing out that the statement "Explosives Engi does everything well with no cons" Is grossly hyperbolic.

No, it probably has some of the best condition cleanse in the game.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Prismatic_Converter

+

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Enhanced_Capacity_Storage_Unit

The class, and build specifically, is most def NOT lacking in condition cleanse. You want a class lacking in condi cleanse? Weaver, especially LR weaver.

it's really not as good as you think it is, like I'm not saying it's not good- but it's not the ultimate condi cleanse you think it is.

you see, it only cleanses when you leave photon forge. so if you're in forge, and you get condi bombed, awesome you can just leave forge to clear.

however, if you are condi bombed, say with 8 stacks of burning, outside of forge- you have to enter forge then wait. you need to wait for the cooldown to deactivate the forge, which is 6 seconds. so you're forced to eat the condi burst for 6 seconds before you clear. not that great, a lot of the time you will die in the 6 seconds you have to wait.

so yeah, it's condi cleanse but it's tied to class mechanics that make it awkward to use.

Enhanced Capacity Storage Unit itself is taken for the might, and honestly could be reduced to one might stack instead of two, as it's one of the major contributors to the builds might gain. so that's something on holo to nerf instead of nade kit (which is not the issue here lol).

as for comparing holo to LR weaver, c'mon man. I can compare all the meta builds to rifle berserker too, and damn if they don't all look OP because that build is a meme. we need better suggestions for nerfs, than just saying it's better than a meme build I enjoy lol.

[Aktium.9506]

@Kuma.1503 said:Both Grenades and explosive entrance are fine. Core Engi and Scrapper rely on these to make otherwise weak specs relevant.

Wouldn't that means it's better to just buff Core and Scrapper then?

If a single traitline is keeping a class relevant it probably is busted.

[ollbirtan.2915]

@bluri.2653 said:this person here plays renegade / jalis which might be the #1 easiest and dumbest spec in the game anyone can play it, and then complains about holo. I'm in TEARS :'(

Do I sense salt from a thief? Maybe, before name calling and shaming a build, try playing it yourself. Then kindly let everyone know how 'OP and dumb' it is. Period.

[UNOwen.7132]

@anjo.6143 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Youre joking right? We already have the overall damage being so low that no one dies without being outnumbered, and the sidenoder meta is knocking back to decap, and you want to

nerf

damage further? What a joke.

Holo has low dmg ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????No one dies to Holo ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I wanna buy this game, where do I find it?

Youre playing it, its called GW2. Why do you think the sidenoder meta is knockbacks?

[Sindrener.1592]

@ollbirtan.2915 said:

@bluri.2653 said:this person here plays renegade / jalis which might be the #1 easiest and dumbest spec in the game anyone can play it, and then complains about holo. I'm in TEARS :'(

Do I sense salt from a thief? Maybe, before name calling and shaming a build, try playing it yourself. Then kindly let everyone know how 'OP and dumb' it is. Period.

? i dont need, i played it with my face.

[Lacko.6572]

core engi nerf when ?

[anjo.6143]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@anjo.6143 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Youre joking right? We already have the overall damage being so low that no one dies without being outnumbered, and the sidenoder meta is knocking back to decap, and you want to

nerf

damage further? What a joke.

Holo has low dmg ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????No one dies to Holo ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I wanna buy this game, where do I find it?

Youre playing it, its called GW2. Why do you think the sidenoder meta is knockbacks?

If u are that holo, you r bad, not the class. The build is the most OP atm.

[Aeolus.3615]

@"DragonFury.6243" said:Forum Troll : You need to dodge when ever the EE engi dodgesPlayer want a fair fight : Oh But He have vigor to get more endurance and faster endurance regenerationEvery troll : Its just L2P

Or one could say, rev has 2 or 3 things that nullify them... use what its called a counter against range stuff.

IMo the "limited gamemode mechanics" is what makes people think theres alot of imbalance between builds and classes, not denying the imba but m8 be smaller than we think it is.

issue its the gamemode is way to limited.

[UNOwen.7132]

@anjo.6143 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@anjo.6143 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Youre joking right? We already have the overall damage being so low that no one dies without being outnumbered, and the sidenoder meta is knocking back to decap, and you want to

nerf

damage further? What a joke.

Holo has low dmg ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????No one dies to Holo ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I wanna buy this game, where do I find it?

Youre playing it, its called GW2. Why do you think the sidenoder meta is knockbacks?

If u are that holo, you r bad, not the class. The build is the most OP atm.

Its strong, but its strong because its unkillable and can knock people off of the point to decap. And when outnumbering it kills faster. But in a 1v1, no half-decent player should ever be downed by a Holo.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@anjo.6143 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@anjo.6143 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Youre joking right? We already have the overall damage being so low that no one dies without being outnumbered, and the sidenoder meta is knocking back to decap, and you want to

nerf

damage further? What a joke.

Holo has low dmg ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????No one dies to Holo ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I wanna buy this game, where do I find it?

Youre playing it, its called GW2. Why do you think the sidenoder meta is knockbacks?

If u are that holo, you r bad, not the class. The build is the most OP atm.

Its strong, but its strong because its unkillable and can knock people off of the point to decap. And when outnumbering it kills faster. But in a 1v1, no half-decent player should

ever

be downed by a Holo.

absolute hilarity, top notch comedy, your comments are

[UNOwen.7132]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@anjo.6143 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@anjo.6143 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Youre joking right? We already have the overall damage being so low that no one dies without being outnumbered, and the sidenoder meta is knocking back to decap, and you want to

nerf

damage further? What a joke.

Holo has low dmg ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????No one dies to Holo ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I wanna buy this game, where do I find it?

Youre playing it, its called GW2. Why do you think the sidenoder meta is knockbacks?

If u are that holo, you r bad, not the class. The build is the most OP atm.

Its strong, but its strong because its unkillable and can knock people off of the point to decap. And when outnumbering it kills faster. But in a 1v1, no half-decent player should

ever

be downed by a Holo.

absolute hilarity, top notch comedy, your comments are

Please, did you pay attention to the MOTA at all? Plenty of explosives holos. Guess how many of them got a kill in a 1v1? Turns out even 8k burst with 2k DPS aint enough to kill someone when any build that has any healing or sustain can easily outpace that. As I said, there is a reason the sidenoder meta is knockbacks.

[xXxNikiGoesWildxXx.3678]

On renegade if you go for 25 might trait's then you get so fragile to condis and any other damage. As holosmith, you get 25 might you go god mode, shield, mobility, stealth, exlixir for few sec invulnerablity etc it just needs to have weakness. It is ok for it to have 25 might but then block many defensive options from its kit. So its fix should be either damage cut off or allowed damage but defenses cut off or third option is to make its overheat damage and effect stronger in order to punish its oppresivness.

[Shiyo.3578]

HGH has always been an issue in pvp. I don't know why it wasn't removed. Alchemy defies the entire post-feb design philosophy - a trait line that gives survival AND damage.

[Bazsi.2734]

@Svez Poizon XD.5268 said:On renegade if you go for 25 might trait's then you get so fragile to condis and any other damage. As holosmith, you get 25 might you go god mode, shield, mobility, stealth, exlixir for few sec invulnerablity etc it just needs to have weakness. It is ok for it to have 25 might but then block many defensive options from its kit. So its fix should be either damage cut off or allowed damage but defenses cut off or third option is to make its overheat damage and effect stronger in order to punish its oppresivness.

So any build that has the potential to kill your stupid bunker build needs a nerf. I hate when others dismiss suggestions based on what the OP is playing, but knowing the full context here, that's exactly what I'm going to do: all you do is play kalla/jalis bunker in the game, and all you do on forums is crying to nerf anything that even remotely counters your build.I can go play anything with similar offensive capability and end up either winning or losing a duel against them, and the outcome is based mostly on skill. The build may be overperforming(it might, I'd like to see some more proof though), but the fact that it can kill your bunker build is irrelevant at best. If anything this game needs bunker killers to prevent the return of the worst meta we ever had.

[ollbirtan.2915]

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@Svez Poizon XD.5268 said:On renegade if you go for 25 might trait's then you get so fragile to condis and any other damage. As holosmith, you get 25 might you go god mode, shield, mobility, stealth, exlixir for few sec invulnerablity etc it just needs to have weakness. It is ok for it to have 25 might but then block many defensive options from its kit. So its fix should be either damage cut off or allowed damage but defenses cut off or third option is to make its overheat damage and effect stronger in order to punish its oppresivness.

So any build that has the potential to kill your stupid bunker build needs a nerf. I hate when others dismiss suggestions based on what the OP is playing, but knowing the full context here, that's exactly what I'm going to do: all you do is play kalla/jalis bunker in the game, and all you do on forums is crying to nerf anything that even remotely counters your build.I can go play anything with similar offensive capability and end up either winning or losing a duel against them, and the outcome is based mostly on skill. The build may be overperforming(it might, I'd like to see some more proof though), but the fact that it can kill your bunker build is irrelevant at best. If anything this game needs bunker killers to prevent the return of the worst meta we ever had.

Wow...another salty teef.... Please, calling Renegade OP is ridiculous.

[Bazsi.2734]

@ollbirtan.2915 said:

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@Svez Poizon XD.5268 said:On renegade if you go for 25 might trait's then you get so fragile to condis and any other damage. As holosmith, you get 25 might you go god mode, shield, mobility, stealth, exlixir for few sec invulnerablity etc it just needs to have weakness. It is ok for it to have 25 might but then block many defensive options from its kit. So its fix should be either damage cut off or allowed damage but defenses cut off or third option is to make its overheat damage and effect stronger in order to punish its oppresivness.

So any build that has the potential to kill your stupid bunker build needs a nerf. I hate when others dismiss suggestions based on what the OP is playing, but knowing the full context here, that's exactly what I'm going to do: all you do is play kalla/jalis bunker in the game, and all you do on forums is crying to nerf anything that even remotely counters your build.I can go play anything with similar offensive capability and end up either winning or losing a duel against them, and the outcome is based mostly on skill. The build may be overperforming(it might, I'd like to see some more proof though), but the fact that it can kill your bunker build is irrelevant at best. If anything this game needs bunker killers to prevent the return of the worst meta we ever had.

Wow...another salty teef.... Please, calling Renegade OP is ridiculous.

2/10, too obvious. Act less dumb and like you're adressing me in good faith next time and I'll fall for it guaranteed.

[ollbirtan.2915]

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@ollbirtan.2915 said:

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@Svez Poizon XD.5268 said:On renegade if you go for 25 might trait's then you get so fragile to condis and any other damage. As holosmith, you get 25 might you go god mode, shield, mobility, stealth, exlixir for few sec invulnerablity etc it just needs to have weakness. It is ok for it to have 25 might but then block many defensive options from its kit. So its fix should be either damage cut off or allowed damage but defenses cut off or third option is to make its overheat damage and effect stronger in order to punish its oppresivness.

So any build that has the potential to kill your stupid bunker build needs a nerf. I hate when others dismiss suggestions based on what the OP is playing, but knowing the full context here, that's exactly what I'm going to do: all you do is play kalla/jalis bunker in the game, and all you do on forums is crying to nerf anything that even remotely counters your build.I can go play anything with similar offensive capability and end up either winning or losing a duel against them, and the outcome is based mostly on skill. The build may be overperforming(it might, I'd like to see some more proof though), but the fact that it can kill your bunker build is irrelevant at best. If anything this game needs bunker killers to prevent the return of the worst meta we ever had.

Wow...another salty teef.... Please, calling Renegade OP is ridiculous.

2/10, too obvious. Act less dumb and like you're adressing me in good faith next time and I'll fall for it guaranteed.

I'd rather not tilt at windmills. This subject has been discussed countless times, and you still fail to see how biased and one-sided your 'argument is....so....-shrug- See you in the arena,

[xXxNikiGoesWildxXx.3678]

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@Svez Poizon XD.5268 said:On renegade if you go for 25 might trait's then you get so fragile to condis and any other damage. As holosmith, you get 25 might you go god mode, shield, mobility, stealth, exlixir for few sec invulnerablity etc it just needs to have weakness. It is ok for it to have 25 might but then block many defensive options from its kit. So its fix should be either damage cut off or allowed damage but defenses cut off or third option is to make its overheat damage and effect stronger in order to punish its oppresivness.

So any build that has the potential to kill your stupid bunker build needs a nerf. I hate when others dismiss suggestions based on what the OP is playing, but knowing the full context here, that's exactly what I'm going to do: all you do is play kalla/jalis bunker in the game, and all you do on forums is crying to nerf anything that even remotely counters your build.I can go play anything with similar offensive capability and end up either winning or losing a duel against them, and the outcome is based mostly on skill. The build may be overperforming(it might, I'd like to see some more proof though), but the fact that it can kill your bunker build is irrelevant at best. If anything this game needs bunker killers to prevent the return of the worst meta we ever had.

First of all, there are many players who agreed that holosmith does too much damage at the moment, that is why i made this thread because i think the same with them :)Second thing, as you can see there are same/similar threads about this which proves it is not just me. Third thing there is condi rev, condi thief and few other things that you can see on this forum, hopefully devs gonna fix condi thief too, less things for you to abuse ;)

Holo got nerf before because of similar reason which is its opressivness without weaknesses. As i remember very well, sword damage didn't get nerf on big balance patch, i tested it and i could one shot reaper with 2,3 and 150% heat. Not just that trait for extended heat levels directly boosts sword effects but also adds might to it and seems like it scales so well with power. There just should be big smart choice in traits instead of picking the best stuff. Hopefully devs rework some engy traits and change their positions if not nerfing its damage/defenses.

[viquing.8254]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@anjo.6143 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@anjo.6143 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Youre joking right? We already have the overall damage being so low that no one dies without being outnumbered, and the sidenoder meta is knocking back to decap, and you want to

nerf

damage further? What a joke.

Holo has low dmg ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????No one dies to Holo ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I wanna buy this game, where do I find it?

Youre playing it, its called GW2. Why do you think the sidenoder meta is knockbacks?

If u are that holo, you r bad, not the class. The build is the most OP atm.

Its strong, but its strong because its unkillable and can knock people off of the point to decap. And when outnumbering it kills faster. But in a 1v1, no half-decent player should

ever

be downed by a Holo.

Play power mesmer/mirage then show me how you don't die to a holo please, I want to learn.

[Kodama.6453]

@Shiyo.3578 said:HGH has always been an issue in pvp. I don't know why it wasn't removed. Alchemy defies the entire post-feb design philosophy - a trait line that gives survival AND damage.

Alchemy is a supportive trait line, especially with boons. Sharing might with allies (which HGH does) is considered a supportive trait.Druid, as one of the prime support elite specs, does basically the same with their grandmaster trait grace of the land. Guess we should delete that, too?

And if providing defense + offense in a single trait line is really problematic, then we have a looooooooooong list of trait lines to nerf, buddy:valor, honor, inventions, water (ele), earth (ele), death magic, critical strikes, blood magic, nature magic, marksmanship, arcane, wilderness survival, shadow arts, tactics, strength, defense, chaos.....

And these are not even all. That's going to be a fun nerf session.