Geoff Fey.1035 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Fractals (CM+T4+Recs) DailiesApprox. 14-20g/day, assuming you sell everything you get and buy keys to open the chests. Fluctuates depending on drops.With a decent PUG (everyone knowing the mechanics) you can complete this in about 1.5-2hrs, less with an organized or optimized group.INCOME: 98g-140g per 7 days =~784g-1120g for 8 weeks, not including extra drops which can includes Ascended Gear, Exotics, extra gold, and relics for Mist Attunements over 8 weeks.PvP League87.xxg/Season completion. 27.5g/Repeatable ByzantiumAssuming 50/50 Win/Loss, you need approx. 144 games (34 wins, 110 loss) to complete season track (not including repeatable). Assuming the queue is fast, and assuming every single game plays to the end of its timer, you're looking appox. Most regular PvPers complete the PvP League within 2 weeks.~15min/game * 144 games = 2160 min = 36 hrs / 2 weeks = 2.63 hrs/day (about 335 pips per week)In addition, PvP Reward Tracks need 20,000 points per completion.350/loss 110 Losses + 700/win 34 Wins = ~62300/2 weeks = 31,150/20,000 = ~1.5 Reward Tracks/week.INCOME: First 2 Weeks: 87g + Last 6 Weeks: 1.83 87 6 = 1042.26g not including 12 PvP Reward Tracks of additional loot, 3 Grandmaster Shards, 6 Warlord Exotic Boxes & misc. over 8 weeks.WvW Skirmish195 WvW Reward Track Points/5 min & Lowest WvW Rank & Warscore = 3 Skirmish pips/5 min1450 Pips required to complete Weekly Skirmish / 3 pips = ~484 "ticks" * 5 min/tick = 2,416.67 min = 40.3 hours / 7 days = 5.75 hrs/day ABSOLUTE MINIMUM20,000 WvW Points required for track completion. At 484 ticks * 195 points/tick = 94,380 points over the 1 week = 4.7 WvW Reward Tracks/Week.Memories of Battle104/Skirmish Track 8 Weeks = 832 0.1196g = 99.5g37.6 WvW Reward Tracks 15/Reward Track = 564 0.1196g = 67.45gINCOME: No gold provided for Skirmish. Only Memories of Battle which works out to 166.95g over 8 week period.Over 8 Week Period: 8 * 365 Skirmish Tickets = 2920 Tickets, 26 Grandmaster Shards = 2.6 Grandmaster Marks and 37.6 WvW Reward TracksBREAKDOWNPvE: 84-112 hrs = 784-1120g over 8 weeks plus drops.PvP: 147 hrs = 1042.26g over 8 weeks plus 12 PvP Reward TracksWvW: 322 hrs = _166.95g _over 8 weeks plus 37.6 WvW Reward Tracks (assuming selling all Memories of Battle)HOURLY COMPARISON OVER 8 WEEK PERIODAssuming we disregard the PvE drops, and each reward track is worth 15g (10g for the x2 Mystic Clovers, 5g for all trash drops):PvE: 784g-1120g / (8wk 7 Day 1.5-2 hrs) =~7g-13g/hr - Limited by Daily Cap, Limited by SkillPvP = (1042.26g / 147 hrs) + (12 PvP Reward Tracks * 15g split down to hourly earning) =~8.2g/hr - Limited by Skill/Queue Times, Increased by Skill/WinsWvW = (37.6 WvW Reward Tracks * 15g = 564g ) + Memories of Battle 166.95g / 322 hrs =~2.27g/hr - Can only be raised via Boosters for WvW Reward Track Gain.Secondary Loss in that you don't get to keep the Memories of Battle, whereas PvE Fractals you keep Relics and PvP League you keep all Shards of Glory.SUMMARY:At the moment, 30% of the income value from WvW comes solely from Trading Post Prices of Memories of Battle, whereas income for PvE/PvP does not react to market changes.In addition, WvW is a massive time investment compared to PvP/PvE, even if we are including the time it takes to get to PvP Rank 20 or all of the gear/training required for CM+T4+Recs in PvE.WvW Skirmish Tracks need a gold reward per Tier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenesisII.1540 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skirmish_Chesthttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unidentified_Dyehttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mist-Warped_Packethttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bolt_of_Damaskhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deldrimor_Steel_Ingothttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elonian_Leather_Squarehttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spiritwood_Plankhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Memory_of_Battlehttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gift_of_Battle_Item_Reward_Track/shrug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subversiontwo.7501 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 I remember doing a breakdown like this a while back, about how just getting the ascended armor stuff from WvW was 36 weeks, so other modes had their leggies before a WvW player without crafting had their ascendeds. A similar comparison can also be made with how just the Memories on a WvW ascended piece cost about as much crafting the full piece in PvE, then you have the week-long Tickets and ontop of everything the ever looming Marks that could be 10-14 additional weeks unless you level crafting and craft it (which on a WvW gold-income becomes even more of a joke). Granted the crafted armor pieces are not precursors but there is no option for cheaper ascended and if you look at weapons the cost disparity is similar and there the WvW items are not precursors. Just to add insult to injure the pure droprate of ascendeds in WvW relative preferred endgame content in other modes is also quite different.Gearing up in WvW is lagging gruesomely behind all the modes. I guess it is just another reflection of how little attention the mode is given and how poorly it is treated.Weekly marks could 10x without comming out ahead of PvE or sPvP. That would net you a lesser piece / week or larger pieces / 1.5 weeks.At the end of the day, all of this just suggests to players to go play the other modes, so people do.On a related note (made recently as well): Given how the gold economy overlaps the gem economy, I find the arguments about the transfer costs for WvW to be quite the joke as well. Setting your account up to generate alot of gold means that you hardly ever have to spend anything else in the gem store, so suggesting that WvW players who are so far behind in the gold income need to also pay transfer costs because they don't spend enough in the gemstore is highly unlikely and laughable in and of itself. If I was slamming in 500g weekly which isn't much of a chore in PvE, I would be bathing in gemstore items. So strangling WvW to death and handing out so many freebies elsewhere can hardly be good business whether we are talking content cost or game economies.WvW is the gutter in so many ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 You're ignoring all of the gold you make from actually playing WvW as well. It's not as much as you can make in PvE but that doesn't mean it can simply be ignored either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subversiontwo.7501 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 @Ayrilana.1396 said:You're ignoring all of the gold you make from actually playing WvW as well. It's not as much as you can make in PvE but that doesn't mean it can simply be ignored either.That would be relevant if the differences were not astronomical. Now the differences are so large so it doesn't matter. I think that you missed a fairly important part of the the OP's conclusions as well. The main gold income from WvW only has the value that it has because the mode is bleeding players. When Memories and Glory came out they were likely adjusted for similar pricing. Then they were left to rot and the difference is now 10x (actually 30x).If the scarcity of sufficiently-playing WvW players did not keep Memories stupidly high the gold-income would be drastically lower. Much lower than any addition that you or Nemesis mention. That income is also double-edged since that gold income is also a gold cost for WvW items, including things like stat-resets which luckily can be done on your WvW gear with sPvP resources, but that circumvention of the system also just speaks more about the neglect and the vast differences in income per mode. WvW players heads into sPvP to buy the sPvPers tokens for resets because their own resets based on the same mechanics costs them 30g rather than 1g.All in all, it's likely that the Memories you can sell for 30g per stack is also bought by impoverished WvW players for 30g per stack.If I come off as ticked about this it is because I am really pissed off about this stuff, it is so irrresponsible by the developer to treat their ingame communities so wildly different and it only leads to mode-mode conflict among players. ArenaNet's neglect on these issues makes me dislike PvE players and I don't want to dislike them. The developer is just driving such a big wedge between the communities that they have no understanding or empathy for each other.Then again, perhaps a dose of divide et impera is a good fit in the appearant lose-slowly strategy employed :p . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 @subversiontwo.7501 said:@Ayrilana.1396 said:You're ignoring all of the gold you make from actually playing WvW as well. It's not as much as you can make in PvE but that doesn't mean it can simply be ignored either.That would be relevant if the differences were not astronomical. Now the differences are so large so it doesn't matter. I think that you missed a fairly important part of the the OP's conclusions as well. The main gold income from WvW only has the value that it has because the mode is bleeding players. When Memories and Glory came out they were likely adjusted for similar pricing. Then they were left to rot and the difference is now 10x.If the scarcity of sufficiently-playing WvW players did not keep Memories stupidly high the gold-income would be drastically lower. Much lower than any addition that you or Nemesis mention. That income is also double-edged since that gold income is also a gold cost for WvW items, including things like stat-resets which luckily can be done on your WvW gear with sPvP resources, but that circumvention of the system also just speaks more about the neglect and the vast differences in income per mode. WvW players heads into sPvP to buy the sPvPers tokens for resets because their own resets based on the same mechanics costs them 30g rather than 1g.If I come off as ticked about this it because I am really pissed off about this stuff, it is so irrresponsible by the developer to treat their ingame communities so wildly different and it only leads to mode-mode conflict among players. ArenaNet's neglect on these issues makes me dislike PvE players and I don't want to dislike them. The developer is just driving such a big wedge between the communities that they have no understanding or empathy for each others' issues.Then again, perhaps a dose of divide et impera is a good fit in the appearant lose-slowly strategy employed.As I said, all sources of gold should not be ignored if you're doing a comparison. How one uses their gold earned is not a part of the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subversiontwo.7501 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 @Ayrilana.1396 said:As I said, all sources of gold should not be ignored if you're doing a comparison. How one uses their gold earned is not a part of the discussion.And as I said, though you clearly did not understand it was that if we're talking about income diferences by order of magnitude whatever additional scraps can be salvaged from the gutter doesn't make a difference in the comparison made. Especially not if they are smaller than the unadjusted inflation of the mode's specific currency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 @subversiontwo.7501 said:@Ayrilana.1396 said:As I said, all sources of gold should not be ignored if you're doing a comparison. How one uses their gold earned is not a part of the discussion.And as I said, though you clearly did not understand it was that if we're talking about income diferences by order of magnitude whatever additional scraps can be salvaged from the gutter doesn't make a difference in the comparison made. Especially not if they are smaller than the unadjusted inflation of the mode's specific currency.The magnitude is greater because other sources are left out... Do you seriously not get that?The OP is also seriously overstating how much time it would take a player on average to complete the skirmish track for the week. They're take the absolutely worst case scenario for how long it could take someone NEW to WvW to complete a skirmish track and then comparing that to someone that's established in fractals and how long they would take on average. It's seriously biased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subversiontwo.7501 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 @Ayrilana.1396 said:@subversiontwo.7501 said:@Ayrilana.1396 said:As I said, all sources of gold should not be ignored if you're doing a comparison. How one uses their gold earned is not a part of the discussion.And as I said, though you clearly did not understand it was that if we're talking about income diferences by order of magnitude whatever additional scraps can be salvaged from the gutter doesn't make a difference in the comparison made. Especially not if they are smaller than the unadjusted inflation of the mode's specific currency.The magnitude is greater because other sources are left out... Do you seriously not get that?The OP is also seriously overstating how much time it would take a player on average to complete the skirmish track for the week.It doesn't matter if the difference is 8x, 10x or 30x when anything over 2x is completely unacceptable.Anyone who is trying to gear themselves for WvW in WvW is doing themselves a major disservice. That can not be said for any other mode.I don't care about the odd figures in the OP's calculations, I care about that overarching message.Why shouldn't WvW players have a fair shake at gearing themselves for WvW through WvW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 @subversiontwo.7501 said:@Ayrilana.1396 said:@subversiontwo.7501 said:@Ayrilana.1396 said:As I said, all sources of gold should not be ignored if you're doing a comparison. How one uses their gold earned is not a part of the discussion.And as I said, though you clearly did not understand it was that if we're talking about income diferences by order of magnitude whatever additional scraps can be salvaged from the gutter doesn't make a difference in the comparison made. Especially not if they are smaller than the unadjusted inflation of the mode's specific currency.The magnitude is greater because other sources are left out... Do you seriously not get that?The OP is also seriously overstating how much time it would take a player on average to complete the skirmish track for the week.It doesn't matter if the difference is 8x, 10x or 30x when anything over 2x is completely unacceptable.Anyone who is trying to gear themselves for WvW in WvW is doing themselves a major disservice. That can not be said for any other mode.Subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subversiontwo.7501 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 @Ayrilana.1396 said:@subversiontwo.7501 said:@Ayrilana.1396 said:@subversiontwo.7501 said:@Ayrilana.1396 said:As I said, all sources of gold should not be ignored if you're doing a comparison. How one uses their gold earned is not a part of the discussion.And as I said, though you clearly did not understand it was that if we're talking about income diferences by order of magnitude whatever additional scraps can be salvaged from the gutter doesn't make a difference in the comparison made. Especially not if they are smaller than the unadjusted inflation of the mode's specific currency.The magnitude is greater because other sources are left out... Do you seriously not get that?The OP is also seriously overstating how much time it would take a player on average to complete the skirmish track for the week.It doesn't matter if the difference is 8x, 10x or 30x when anything over 2x is completely unacceptable.Anyone who is trying to gear themselves for WvW in WvW is doing themselves a major disservice. That can not be said for any other mode.Subjective.Did you gear yourself through WvW? No? Perhaps you should give that word another thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 @subversiontwo.7501 said:@Ayrilana.1396 said:@subversiontwo.7501 said:@Ayrilana.1396 said:@subversiontwo.7501 said:@Ayrilana.1396 said:As I said, all sources of gold should not be ignored if you're doing a comparison. How one uses their gold earned is not a part of the discussion.And as I said, though you clearly did not understand it was that if we're talking about income diferences by order of magnitude whatever additional scraps can be salvaged from the gutter doesn't make a difference in the comparison made. Especially not if they are smaller than the unadjusted inflation of the mode's specific currency.The magnitude is greater because other sources are left out... Do you seriously not get that?The OP is also seriously overstating how much time it would take a player on average to complete the skirmish track for the week.It doesn't matter if the difference is 8x, 10x or 30x when anything over 2x is completely unacceptable.Anyone who is trying to gear themselves for WvW in WvW is doing themselves a major disservice. That can not be said for any other mode.Subjective.Did you gear yourself through WvW? No? Perhaps you should give that word another thought.Did fractal players gear themselves exclusively through fractals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subversiontwo.7501 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 @Ayrilana.1396 said:@subversiontwo.7501 said:@Ayrilana.1396 said:@subversiontwo.7501 said:@Ayrilana.1396 said:@subversiontwo.7501 said:@Ayrilana.1396 said:As I said, all sources of gold should not be ignored if you're doing a comparison. How one uses their gold earned is not a part of the discussion.And as I said, though you clearly did not understand it was that if we're talking about income diferences by order of magnitude whatever additional scraps can be salvaged from the gutter doesn't make a difference in the comparison made. Especially not if they are smaller than the unadjusted inflation of the mode's specific currency.The magnitude is greater because other sources are left out... Do you seriously not get that?The OP is also seriously overstating how much time it would take a player on average to complete the skirmish track for the week.It doesn't matter if the difference is 8x, 10x or 30x when anything over 2x is completely unacceptable.Anyone who is trying to gear themselves for WvW in WvW is doing themselves a major disservice. That can not be said for any other mode.Subjective.Did you gear yourself through WvW? No? Perhaps you should give that word another thought.Did fractal players gear themselves exclusively through fractals?I was thinking about just letting your comment sit by itself as you are tripping over yourself just to argue for the sake of arguing.However, that question was actually too good to pass up so let me indulge you and follow your train off the rails here for a second:Yes, I did that myself. I had a premade of friends (from WvW, who used fractals to blitz income for WvW, which is quite relevant for the larger topic at hand). They were blitzing L4's and initially carried me through it. They would let me die every fight where there was AR needed and res me as you got rewards anyway. So I never levelled up in fractals, I jumped up the levels only playing L4's, got borrowed the gold for the infusions and raised my AR through the drops, piece by piece.So even a PvE mode that has such a direct barrier of entry as a levelling system with a scaling AR requirement can actually be circumvented and blitzed rather easily. It did not take me many hours to get fully levelled and able to pay the loan back. I certainly did not feel compelled to hop into WvW to gear myself for Fractals. I did however use the income from Fractals to gear that account for WvW B) .Feel free to go out on the next unrelated tangent just to try to score a point.None of it matters though, WvW still takes ages longer to gear up in and nets you considerably less income which quite alot of people these days only spend on transfers anyway, to milk back the remaining content. Their accounts, like most of mine, have been complete forever. They don't need to gear in a way that new players would feel compelled to do. However, those new players do not come to WvW anyway, because servers are full and transfers are likely to cost them additional real money because they will be helplessly behind in the gold-game, especially if they look to play WvW.Meanwhile, PvE players like you my friend, will likely transfer some gold for that new Warclaw skin that is bound to land any day now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilora.9524 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Yeah you miss alot of income but WvW still won't touch. Just a few- skirmish chests can chose unidentified dye. Badges can be traded for cata blueprints. Champ/loot bags. 33s per wvw level. Boosts speed it up. Faster pips if higher rank. Nodes you hit. More if glyph of bounty on sickle. T4 fracs also req alot of skill compared to WvW so I'd just remove that one. You rigged it too with 3 pips per tick as if every1 is a newbie and his server always in last and never gets outnumbered buff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 @subversiontwo.7501 said:@Ayrilana.1396 said:@subversiontwo.7501 said:@Ayrilana.1396 said:@subversiontwo.7501 said:@Ayrilana.1396 said:@subversiontwo.7501 said:@Ayrilana.1396 said:As I said, all sources of gold should not be ignored if you're doing a comparison. How one uses their gold earned is not a part of the discussion.And as I said, though you clearly did not understand it was that if we're talking about income diferences by order of magnitude whatever additional scraps can be salvaged from the gutter doesn't make a difference in the comparison made. Especially not if they are smaller than the unadjusted inflation of the mode's specific currency.The magnitude is greater because other sources are left out... Do you seriously not get that?The OP is also seriously overstating how much time it would take a player on average to complete the skirmish track for the week.It doesn't matter if the difference is 8x, 10x or 30x when anything over 2x is completely unacceptable.Anyone who is trying to gear themselves for WvW in WvW is doing themselves a major disservice. That can not be said for any other mode.Subjective.Did you gear yourself through WvW? No? Perhaps you should give that word another thought.Did fractal players gear themselves exclusively through fractals?I was thinking about just letting your comment sit by itself as you are tripping over yourself just to argue for the sake of arguing.I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing. You're applying double standards in your favor.However, that question was actually too good to pass up so let me indulge you and follow your train off the rails here for a second:Yes, I did that myself. I had a premade of friends (from WvW, who used fractals to blitz income for WvW, which is quite relevant for the larger topic at hand). They were blitzing L4's and initially carried me through it. They would let me die every fight where there was AR needed and res me as you got rewards anyway. So I never levelled up in fractals, I jumped up the levels only playing L4's, got borrowed the gold for the infusions and raised my AR through the drops, piece by piece.So you were able to go through T4 fractals without ascended gear and infusions? Oh, you had your friends carry you. How many players have friends who are willing to carry them daily like that? Your situation is not the norm and should not be applied as such.So even a PvE mode that has such a direct barrier of entry as a levelling system with a scaling AR requirement can actually be circumvented and blitzed rather easily. It did not take me many hours to get fully levelled and able to pay the loan back. I certainly did not feel compelled to hop into WvW to gear myself for Fractals. I did however use the income from Fractals to gear that account for WvW B) .You technically didn't gear yourself through fractals but as I stated above, your scenario is not the norm.What's disappointing is that an argument for increased gold in WvW could certainly be made but both you and the OP are doing yourselves a disservice with how you're going about your arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God.2708 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 @Ayrilana.1396 said:@subversiontwo.7501 said:@Ayrilana.1396 said:As I said, all sources of gold should not be ignored if you're doing a comparison. How one uses their gold earned is not a part of the discussion.And as I said, though you clearly did not understand it was that if we're talking about income diferences by order of magnitude whatever additional scraps can be salvaged from the gutter doesn't make a difference in the comparison made. Especially not if they are smaller than the unadjusted inflation of the mode's specific currency.The magnitude is greater because other sources are left out... Do you seriously not get that?The OP is also seriously overstating how much time it would take a player on average to complete the skirmish track for the week. They're take the absolutely worst case scenario for how long it could take someone NEW to WvW to complete a skirmish track and then comparing that to someone that's established in fractals and how long they would take on average. It's seriously biased.I appreciate you adjusting his numbers in WvW for the PvE comparison then ignoring the PvP comparison that has almost no barrier of entry and he gave the worst case scenario for (every match lasting till the very end).His numbers are also all right there so it's very easy to adjust them. 1450 Pips required to complete Weekly Skirmish / 3 pips = ~484 "ticks" * 5 min/tick = 2,416.67 min = 40.3 hours / 7 days = 5.75 hrs/day ABSOLUTE MINIMUMWe'll give this hardened veteran person a public commander tag with 5 people on an outnumbered borderlands whilst they are winning the skirmish. To lazy to look up the exact pips, like 5+3+1+5+5? 19? 1450 Pips required to complete Weekly Skirmish / 19 pips = ~77 "ticks" * 5 min/tick = 385 min = 6.4 hours / 7 days = 1 hr/day rounded because it makes later math easier.So here's the catch to this though. We finish our skirmishes faster, which means we get WAY WAY WAY less reward track income. We'll use some boosters cuz this vet has been hoarding them and decided to pop a 1.1 and 1.5 multiplier. (Guild + experience booster)20,000 WvW Points required for track completion. At 77 ticks * 321 points/tick = 24717 points over the 1 week = 1.23 WvW Reward Tracks/Week.So now in 8 weeks we have 166.95g from skirmish chests and their memories of battle.And... 9.84 reward tracks at 15g per track. We'll round up to ten since he was playing an even hour a day.150g + 166.95g in 56 hours over 8 weeks. Or about 5.6 gold per hour. Which is still half that of PvE and assumes absolutely asinine circumstances. You can argue for all the other gold gained from reward tracks, but the same applies to PvP, and fractal relics have plenty of uses themselves. I'd be willing to bet bringing that into the equation would put WvW further behind.Edit: As someone who plays all 3 modes, this actually just explains what I've always sort of left as an unsaid observation. I spend time playing PvP for a couple of weeks to get x or y and look at my bank. I'm 200g richer. I do fractals daily cuz I'm in the mood for a week and look and I'm like 200g and an ascended item or two richer. I play WvW for a week and I find my income basically flatlined cuz I'm not selling my memories of battle and reward track gold goes to food/utility items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subversiontwo.7501 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 @Jilora.9524 said:T4 fracs also req alot of skill compared to WvWYes, that skill level clearly stopped a ragtag band of WvW'ers from blitzing the endgame L4's and doing the CM's. Lol. :3@Ayrilana.1396 said:How many players have friends /.../ Your situation is not the norm and should not be applied as such.You technically didn't gear yourself through fractals but as I stated above, your scenario is not the norm.What's disappointing is that an argument for increased gold in WvW could certainly be made but both you and the OP are doing yourselves a disservice with how you're going about your arguments.My argument is quite simple. They should raise marks by 10x so WvW players can collect an ascended item per week. That sounds very reasonable to me. My argument has little to do with me and more to do with how it isn't healthy for WvW to just be a sink to other modes faucets. It hurts the mode in several ways, which I have already pointed to (from attracting new players, to letting existing players feel invested in their accounts and the game). Hopefully people do have friends since that is kind of the point of playing MMO games. Most of the things that I speak up about here revolves around how some of the WvW systems (like the transfers, which the economy is apart of) are harmful towards how people play with friends, play socially and build social structures that helps the mode and ultimately helps the game.The OP's argument is simply that WvW makes far less money and that they could add a gold amount to reward tracks. That also sounds very reasonable to me. It isn't necessarily anything that is important (anywhere near as important as the marks, hence I bring them up again) or something that would change very much in the grand scheme of things. That is why I find the details of his post far less relevant than the spirit in which he (or she) made the post. Some extra gold in the reward tracks, rank up chests or weekly tiers is not how I would deal with the economy to be honest. However, its not like it would hurt or make tons of PvE players (even those skillful fractal players) leave their goodies to come farm WvW. :3 Also, with all this talk about subjectivity, norms and staying on point with the arguments. Like I said, your question only let me follow your tangent and give you a funny example. What the fitting response would be to your question is that there is no norm of close-to fractal-only players while there certainly is a norm of close-to WvW-only players. WvW is a full game mode, Fractals are not. That is the stuff that you are missing because you can't see the forest because of all the trees. The initial post you made admitted that income was falling behind which is really everything that is relevant. You then added a reservation which was both irrelevant to the topic and irrelevant as an argument because packets and skirmish chests do not change the point you already conceded: If WvW still makes considerably less money, even if you factor in packets and dyes (or whatever else), then yes, they can simply be ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justine.6351 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 More gold make me more gooder at wvw. Definitely can't have enough of it and needs a buff. Maybe the veteran creature events could give bags of gold when killed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voltaicbore.8012 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 @God.2708 said:Edit: As someone who plays all 3 modes, this actually just explains what I've always sort of left as an unsaid observation. I spend time playing PvP for a couple of weeks to get x or y and look at my bank. I'm 200g richer. I do fractals daily cuz I'm in the mood for a week and look and I'm like 200g and an ascended item or two richer. I play WvW for a week and I find my income basically flatlined cuz I'm not selling my memories of battle and reward track gold goes to food/utility items.This was also my experience, and I think it's honestly the best (if not the most mathematically rigorous) observation to make. For a time, I thought I actually wanted Conflux and ran WvW every chance I had to log into GW2. I think my gold level was pretty much flat - I gained slightly under 1 gold over the course of the week, also not selling memories and whatnot since I think I needed a goodly number for Conflux crafting.I finally came to senses, remembered that I absolutely loathe WvW with a passion, and hopped back into PvE. Made 10 gold just messing around, and not really thinking about it over the course of a few hours. Maybe I'll work up the tolerance again to give Conflux another shot, but I don't know if I can stomach it long enough to get the skirmish tickets I need to finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAlcedo.3281 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 :O Mfw people defend WvW rewards. You could double everything and it would still be low.Add the fact that skirmish ticktes are worthless outside legendary gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infusion.7149 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 If Arenanet hasn't changed accountbound grandmaster mark shards to become grandmaster marks (also accountbound) I find it unlikely sellable rewards will be increased further.It is my number one suggested change to WvW rewards because grandmaster mark shards can't be crafted and they take up space for an entire month assuming you pass gold skirmish rewards every week. There really isn't any reason why there couldn't be enough marks to buy a piece of armor using tickets + grandmaster marks from that week. You can get enough gold to craft ascended in less than two hours of PvE.Also as someone who plays all three modes as well, there's PvP players afking , throwing matches, or botting in offhours so technically speaking the gold per actual play hour there is probably going to be even higher for the subset of players that break the rules but somehow still manage to be ingame. There's also afkers in PvE (minion necros are a common sight) and WvW (they are typically auto kicked for inactivity and get nothing except skirmish rewards + tickets) but I don't think they compare with the reward structure of ranked reward chests on repeat. Personally I feel anyone with thousands of games in one season should be flagged automatically by the logging systems in place , as there isn't a participation system keeping it in check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkeyspit.3965 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 At the very least I want a reason to care about repeating Diamond Chest.I recognize that many players don't complete it each week (I don't), but on those weeks where I'm done with Diamond by Monday, when I reach the two-hour window I have after work but before meal-time, I find myself debating between playing WvW or doing Fractals, and many a time when what I want to do is go into WvW, I end up selecting Fractals because if I can only pick one, why go into the mode that no longer offers anything meaningful as a reward?PvP players can repeat their Byz chest for decent amount of gold. What does a WvW player get from repeating diamond? 6 Skirmish Chests, 24 Memories of Battle, and 12 Mist-Warped Packets? That's a far cry from the 27.5 Gold a conquest players gets for repeating Byzantium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchonWing.9480 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 @DanAlcedo.3281 said::O Mfw people defend WvW rewards. You could double everything and it would still be low.Add the fact that skirmish ticktes are worthless outside legendary gear.Maybe people don't know any better, as I still hear it being thrown around to run reward tracks for exotic gear. If you spent 48 hours of doing anything but WvW, you would have 2 sets of ascended. Honestly, WvW is just the cockroach of Gw2; despite their best attempts at killing it, it still survives for some reason. ;)Let'ss go over Skirmish Tickets:Ascended Earrings: Actually very good, considering stat selectable earrings are generally expensive everywhere unless you want to grind LSAmulets: Not too badRings: Rather overpriced despite the extra infusion slot, though to be fair there is no good choice for stat selectable rings outside LSAscended Weapons: lol no. You have to pay 26g upfront of heroics PLUS the marks which are just as expensive to craft. There are no wvw legendaries so this is only for the skin. Only viable if you are too lazy to get 500 craftingMark Recipes: Please don't even craft marks; only use the free onesInfusions: Somewhat decent, compared to the laurel vendor. Laurels are also time gated and have more useMiscellaneous Tactics: Hell noSiege Blueprints: Are you kidding me?Canned Food: This is about as bad as the legacy vendor selling blue siege for 12sObsidian Shard: NoAscended Salvage tools: Actually more expensive than buying the things normallyTrinkets and infusions are good, but yea I suppose it does nothing if you don't need to gear. They could fix the miscellaneous section and add more things to buy, and the marks system really needs to fix as it is bad across all game modes. Of course WvW related vendors haven't really been fixed for years; they're still selling blue siege blueprints for laurels... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infusion.7149 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Ascended trinkets are moot. You can do Bjora Marches and get the trinket for eternal ice at the vendor and convert to get diflourite and mistborn motes or other LS4 currency for second trinket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkeyspit.3965 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 @"Justine.6351" said:More gold make me more gooder at wvw. Definitely can't have enough of it and needs a buff. Maybe the veteran creature events could give bags of gold when killed?Ancient Boreal Spirit and Overgrown Grub say: "am I a joke to you?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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