Bring back the holy trinity.

[Rauderi.8706]

@"coso.9173" said:please don'tAlso I can't wait for queue times to go up to 10 times their wait time because a healer or tank hasn't queued yet...

I mean, we already have excessive queue times in GW2.We just call them "Join in [map name]" instead, followed by "sorry, map's full, try again"

[Rauderi.8706]

@"jishi.7568" said:if anything, i would like a skill that "everyone has" to attract the enemy or mob away from the group.

I would love to see every profession get a Taunt skill of some kind, on a cooldown that actually matters (looking at you Spellbreaker..). Even if some of the professions have it on their elite specs, it would help a ton to help sort out aggro issues.

[Zawn.9647]

no. thanks

[coso.9173]

I'll say it, the holy trinity SUCKS and I hope it dies forever.

[Vision.7265]

I will admit that at release I wasn't fond of the chronomancer because I didn't understand it. In time, everyone including myself knew how useful it was. In fact, it probably is the most imaginative way to create an evasion sort of a tank with multiple illusions that would 'tank' on top of the physical tank or chrono player. RIP old school traditional huge hp/def tank. Now it's a tank you can't hit and if you do, you hit/kill an illusion that gets regenerated. Wow. It's a masterpiece.

When people REALLY started using it to the point where no other class was needed aside from different chrono builds in certain runs, I think that's when they started chipping away at its power and usefulness. It's sad because I would like for them to restore the original pre-nerfed chrono (I mean c'mon, MoA now is a garbage 'elite' slot skill that is never used on land among other things). With the original pre-nerfed chrono, they could use it as a model for all the other classes in terms of usefulness and uniqueness rather than nuking it into oblivion and having other classes just steal what it was good at.

Instead, they should have kept the chrono as is and asked: hey how do we make the other classes as fun and as flexible as this without completely negating or stealing the chrono's unique role and abilities? They would only have to do it for 8 more classes. So imagine in closed content someone saying: no we can't have 2 of anything, we need this other classes because they bring this unique buff/ability/skill we need. Instead of the tired, old school tank, healer, dps combo that has been beaten to death, make all these classes great by giving them their niche that no other class can step on.

I would hope they would go back to the ethos which no other game has: "play as you want."

What needs to be done is to really support this ethos by adapting current class specs and future specs to have really fleshed out skills and roles that are completely different but complementary in a group so that no one class or spec completely trumps another in a group.

I thought they were west coast based? Where's the class and build inclusion?

[Lucentfir.7430]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Kulvar.1239 said:There is far more strategy in doing T4/CM than any mythic+ WoW dungeon...The recent Mai Trin T4 + Hamstrung + We Bleed Fire + Mist Convergence was quite spicy to handle.

Trinity is an illusion of challenge.

Interesting. I left WoW long before mythic was a thing, but I recall the original heroic 5 man content was far more difficult in some of the tougher instances than anything GW2 offers in a fractal.

The thing with WoW is however hard they tune it, you inevitably trivialize the content by increasing your gear level.

My understanding is that mythic+ is designed to keep moving the goal posts to avoid that issue. Is that not the case?

The only real difference between T4 CMs and WoW's Mythic + dungeons, is that Mythic + you aim to beat the dungeon in time which feeds into your 3rd party website scoring(Raider IO) which people use to judge you if you're worth taking into the group or not. where as in Fractals you just aim to conquer the content. Fractals has a level cap, a few additional CMs for difficulty spikes. Meanwhile WoW keystones technically infinitely scales, because every level just adds more % increased health and damage to the whole dungeon. M+ also has Affixes too like Fractals have Instabilities.

[Sugar Min.5834]

8 years in this game and i never knew a holy trinity exsisted in the game. How can you bring back something when it's not even there from the very beginning?

But I do like the idea of having a specialised class. The sad thing is we only have builds that lean slightly towards maybe a little more dps, more heals or more tank. But even so, ANet will bring down the nerf hammer hard on whatever builds the moment players start to enjoy it.

[kharmin.7683]

@XYLO.7031 said:I will admit that at release I wasn't fond of the chronomancer because I didn't understand it. In time, everyone including myself knew how useful it was.Intentional pun?

[GuriGashi.5617]

I disagree, some stuff just doesn‘t make any sense - Necros outdamaging Warriors or Elementalists having more defensive capabilities than GUARDians just doesn‘t add up. The only class that strictly seems to maintain it‘s playstyle and the way it is intended to be played is probably Thief - high spike damage, fast in fast out and lurking in the shadows. I wouldn‘t want a strict holy trinity, classes should be still able to play the style they want to, but I feel like ArenaNet should really implement some limitations to the degree some classes break the logical sense of the game.

Also it wouldn‘t add really much strategy to the game except that it would yet again make some specs extremely broken, exactly what ArenaNet wanted to work against with the February balancing

[AliamRationem.5172]

@"Mil.3562" said:8 years in this game and i never knew a holy trinity exsisted in the game. How can you bring back something when it's not even there from the very beginning?

But I do like the idea of having a specialised class. The sad thing is we only have builds that lean slightly towards maybe a little more dps, more heals or more tank. But even so, ANet will bring down the nerf hammer hard on whatever builds the moment players start to enjoy it.

It doesn't exist in this game. Throwing on toughness gear so that boss follows you around like iron to a magnet is not the same thing as a dedicated tanking class with a full kit developed specifically for tanking. Just like spamming area effect heals is not "healing" the way it is in a trinity game with classes that are designed specifically to heal. We don't even have the UI to support the basics of what these roles do.

[Ramahan.5276]

The "Holy Trinity" is probably 90% of why I started playing GW2 because I grew tired of the Elitest Bull that a system that depends on the "Holy Trinity" brings with it.

Don't play the #1 Tank Class you're not wanted!Don't play the #1 Healer Class go away!Don't play the top DPS Class just keep looking at the queue timer getting longer and longer!Oh and then before you become desired you better be willing to pay to be carried but the Elite so you can ger up to their requirements!

[Thornwolf.9721]

@kharmin.7683 said:How can GW2 bring back the holy trinity when the game was practically based on the lack thereof? No. Please enjoy your trinity in the many other MMOs where it is already well in place.

How could they bring raids in when the game wasn't designed for it? Oh wait they did and then they died a horrible death with so few of the community actually bothering to care or do them. The trinity sure might help that not be the case~ But whose to say its not like other games for years have outperformed this one and made this game, the joke of the sphere right? Right.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:How can GW2 bring back the holy trinity when the game was practically based on the lack thereof? No. Please enjoy your trinity in the many other MMOs where it is already well in place.

How could they bring raids in when the game wasn't designed for it? Oh wait they did and then they died a horrible death with so few of the community actually bothering to care or do them.Exactly. They died a horrible death, proving that they truly weren't a good fit for the game.

The trinity sure might help that not be the case~Or, following the raid example, due to it not being a good fit for the game, it might also die a horible death. Except in trinity's case, since it is not a separate content but a gamewide feature, it might pull the whole game down with it.

But whose to say its not like other games for years have outperformed this one and made this game, the joke of the sphere right? Right.Nothing to do with trinity, though. In that time there were many other, trinity-based games that ended up well outperformed by GW2. Many of those games aren't around anymore, but GW2 is still there.

Notice: Personally, i think that trinity-based system, being much simpler than what we have now, would have been way better for a game with a playerbase as casual as GW2's. I just not believe that we could remake the whole class/combat engine now without it having some really negative consequences. Massive changes like that would definitely be disliked by many players that have already gotten used to how this game was for the last 8 years, and might cause a lot of them to leave. At the same time it is way too late to expect any changes, no matter how big, to bring a lot of completely new players to offset that loss.

So, we may keep arguing about whether it would have been better if Anet made differen design choices when making GW2, but asking them to completely redo core design elements of the game now is not very realistic.

[kratan.4619]

No thanks, every game with it has 1,000 DPS classes all waiting on the 50 tanks and 40 healers to choose their group. At least here everyone can play DPS, which is obviously, from other games, what the majority of people want to play.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@"Ramahan.5276" said:The "Holy Trinity" is probably 90% of why I started playing GW2 because I grew tired of the Elitest Bull that a system that depends on the "Holy Trinity" brings with it.

Don't play the #1 Tank Class you're not wanted!Don't play the #1 Healer Class go away!Don't play the top DPS Class just keep looking at the queue timer getting longer and longer!Oh and then before you become desired you better be willing to pay to be carried but the Elite so you can ger up to their requirements!

So basically the same stuff you see in this game, minus the queue times for dps?

[Ramahan.5276]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@"Ramahan.5276" said:The "Holy Trinity" is probably 90% of why I started playing GW2 because I grew tired of the Elitest Bull that a system that depends on the "Holy Trinity" brings with it.

Don't play the #1 Tank Class you're not wanted!Don't play the #1 Healer Class go away!Don't play the top DPS Class just keep looking at the queue timer getting longer and longer!Oh and then before you become desired you better be willing to pay to be carried but the Elite so you can ger up to their requirements!

So basically the same stuff you see in this game, minus the queue times for dps?

Nope. What you see in GW2 isn't even close to the nastiness, vitriol, and elitisms in MMOs where the "Holy Trinity" is king!But you go ahead and believe it does if it makes you feel good!

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Ramahan.5276 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Ramahan.5276 said:The "Holy Trinity" is probably 90% of why I started playing GW2 because I grew tired of the Elitest Bull that a system that depends on the "Holy Trinity" brings with it.

Don't play the #1 Tank Class you're not wanted!Don't play the #1 Healer Class go away!Don't play the top DPS Class just keep looking at the queue timer getting longer and longer!Oh and then before you become desired you better be willing to pay to be carried but the Elite so you can ger up to their requirements!

So basically the same stuff you see in this game, minus the queue times for dps?

Nope. What you see in GW2 isn't even close to the nastiness, vitriol, and elitisms in MMOs where the "Holy Trinity" is king!But you go ahead and believe it does if it makes you feel good!

I guess I lived a charmed life mostly preferring tanking and healing roles. No queue times and no trash talk!

[coso.9173]

There are few things worse than changing something like this mid game.

[Bladestrom.6425]

Gamers want rich complexity of choice, it's interesting and rewarding. Trinity enforces the absolute opposite if this: meat shield, healer, dps focus on dmg meters and stack on healer. A gaming dead end.

[wickedkae.4980]

Nope. A lot of us left games because the trinity is trash as a concept. Please go play another game and stop ruining other games that don't do what you want.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:Gamers want rich complexity of choice, it's interesting and rewarding. Trinity enforces the absolute opposite if this: meat shield, healer, dps focus on dmg meters and stack on healer. A gaming dead end.

Not that I think GW2 should go trinity, but while going the route less traveled sounds nice, that they replace the things they take away with things that already exist in so-called restrictive trinity games is a bit of a let down. That they had to then add in lame psuedo versions of tank and healer roles just to come up with partly compelling raid encounters is also telling.

[MedievalThings.5417]

The game already has a half-assed version of it, that's the problem. Some people want the real version of it in the game, others don't. But, the trinity is already here. Armor weights are trinity. FB, scrapper, druid, tempest, revenant, are all classes pushing us even closer to a real trinity. So, we are stuck in limbo between what could be and what we have (which is causing a lot of balance issues).

In my opinion, yes, they should put it fully back in the game. That, and bring back dungeons, which could be greatly enhanced by doing so.

[kharmin.7683]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:Gamers want rich complexity of choice, it's interesting and rewarding. Trinity enforces the absolute opposite if this: meat shield, healer, dps focus on dmg meters and stack on healer. A gaming dead end.

Not that I think GW2 should go trinity, but while going the route less traveled sounds nice, that they replace the things they take away with things that already exist in so-called restrictive trinity games is a bit of a let down. That they had to then add in lame psuedo versions of tank and healer roles just to come up with partly compelling raid encounters is also telling.

IMO, typical raiding requires trinity which is why it doesn't fit so well in GW2. IMO also, raiding should have never been implemented in GW2. /shrug

[IndigoSundown.5419]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:Gamers want rich complexity of choice, it's interesting and rewarding. Trinity enforces the absolute opposite if this: meat shield, healer, dps focus on dmg meters and stack on healer. A gaming dead end.

Not that I think GW2 should go trinity, but while going the route less traveled sounds nice, that they replace the things they take away with things that already exist in so-called restrictive trinity games is a bit of a let down. That they had to then add in lame psuedo versions of tank and healer roles just to come up with partly compelling raid encounters is also telling.

I fully agree.

If I look back at the forum discussions about harder PvE content game pre-raids, two things stand out. First, there was a persistent demand by some posters who wanted to play tanks and/or healers. I have no doubt that played into the ANet decision to create their versions of those roles. Of course, they also designed raid content to require those roles because they knew that if the roles were not necessary, those players would still be prohibited from playing lower-damage roles by efficiency-minded groups.

Second, challenge pre-raids consisted of recognizing what attacks were incoming and using invulnerability frames to avoid it. Everything else was an exercise in executing rotations. The net result was that as soon as players learned an encounter, it became very easy. That produced another persistent complaint, that dungeons/fractals were too easy.

So, it looks like ANet decided to kill two birds with one stone by designing encounters in which healing was necessary because some damage was unavoidable, and opted for tanks/healers in doing so rather than trying to come up with something more innovative because they thought (perhaps rightly) that a significant number of players wanted those roles.

[Bladestrom.6425]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:Gamers want rich complexity of choice, it's interesting and rewarding. Trinity enforces the absolute opposite if this: meat shield, healer, dps focus on dmg meters and stack on healer. A gaming dead end.

Not that I think GW2 should go trinity, but while going the route less traveled sounds nice, that they replace the things they take away with things that already exist in so-called restrictive trinity games is a bit of a let down. That they had to then add in lame psuedo versions of tank and healer roles just to come up with partly compelling raid encounters is also telling.

thats the problem isnt it. Tuned raids. I play ESO mostly these days and i raid constantly in sub par gear in a total hybrid sub optimal build and its fun. When you forget about fun in raids and focus on numbers its gets dull fast.