Raise the sell price limit on the trading post

[maddoctor.2738]

@"Sobx.1758" said:And if that's not what you're talking about, then what exactly is the downside of increasing the cap?

See it this way, 10k gold is 600$ so the upper limit Anet set for a single item purchase is 600$, increasing the cap means there will be items that are "worth" more than 600$ in the game. How high do you suppose this cap should go? How many dollars is the upper limit a company can put on their in-game items? All markets have a limit, Steam for example has a limit of 2000$, that's 33,333 gold in Guild Wars 2 terms, so items valued above that are beyond even the Steam wallet limit.

You are thinking of the cap as something to do with Gold alone, as something that prevents rich farmers from conducting trade. But Gold and Real money are directly related in this game, as you can buy gold with money. Every marketplace has an upper limit on the transactions they allow.

[Tiilimon.6094]

https://www.reddit.com/search/?q=chak%20infusion

A lot of em have been sold on reddit lately as well, for gold.

RMT sites seem to also be selling all sorts of crafting materials, accounts, gold, and even power leveling services.

[Astralporing.1957]

Lol, if you look at that list, you will find quite a number of sales are from the people that bought it shortly before for a vastly lower price. Which just support @maddoctor.2738's point about the market being controlled by a relatively small number of people artificially inflating those prices.

[Tiilimon.6094]

There are buy orders from 2 years ago for 22k too, people seem to be selling em for around 18k~ ish now.

I'd say the price is actually dropping instead of rising.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:There are currently 97 buy orders at 10K gold from 67 accounts for the chak egg. Clearly there are people that feel that it's worth at least that much.

Right. There are 25 people on gw2efficiency that combined have 158 chak egg sacks, that's 6.32 chak egg sacks on average on those 25 gw2efficiency accounts. So what's "clear" here is not that people feel it's "worth" it as much, but there are some "TP barons" that are hoarding all the chak egg sacks they can find to inflate its price. I'm willing to bet those 97 buy orders are from the same types of people that want to show the world that their investment is worth a lot.

@Ayrilana.1396 said:You do realize that players can put their sell posts below those overpriced orders? That the supply for 99% of the items in the game cannot be controlled by players?

See above. Some might be posting items at lower prices, but they are quickly being bought by the rich tp barons and then relisted at higher prices. When an item has such low amounts in circulation it's very easy to be manipulated by bots, TP barons and market manipulators, after all we are talking about a 200$ transaction for an in-game cosmetic item.

Ok. What does this have to do with whether the price cap should or shouldn’t be increased/removed?

[Cyninja.2954]

@"Tiilimon.6094" said:There are buy orders from 2 years ago for 22k too, people seem to be selling em for around 18k~ ish now.

I'd say the price is actually dropping instead of rising.

One explanation for this is: traders have to actually sell their stock off before the next event comes around which drops a huge, huge is relative in this case since it will still be significantly small, supply into the market. You can hold on to only so much stock and keep the price high.

The same happened to Black Lion Weapons btw ever since they went on a rotation. Prices used to spike right after a set was removed from the BL chest. Now with random rotations, the "danger" of having the weapon skins reintroduced before having sold off the investment have grown, thus putting pressure on the price.

@"Tiilimon.6094" said:The current richest TP barons could easily buy out all the most expensive items in the ingame trading post and 3rd party websites as well, then try to sell them for double the price they bought em for or even more.But as far as I know, they're pretty cool folks and don't wish to do such nasty deeds.

Here's a video made by those very barons that might interest the people in this discussion:

Very nice video. Quite informative. Also n context of what I wrote up above:the reason "ultra rich" barons want a healthy "middle" class is easily explained. When you trade in high value commodities, you need a customer base. Ultra poor players don't buy infusions or other expensive items. Trading volumes drop and risk increases, especially with the developer approach to reintroduce items more regularly. Having a healthy distribution of wealth is more favorable to traders, no matter which segment they manage.

The only thing I personally disagree with, and where a huge amount of trade value is generated, is the circumvention of the trading fee outside of the game. There are benefits and drawbacks to this obviously, but suffice to say, if more and more players where to move to trade outside of the games TP, the entire system collapses or becomes inefficient (not likely to happen at current player numbers).

[Super Hayes.6890]

If the purpose of raising the cap is to bring trades back into the TP from outside the game then raising the drop rate of certain items is a better solution, assuming they drop at a rate high enough to not make them worth hoarding.

Infusions were a cool idea in theory but making them so unobtainable for the majority of the player base was an odd choice. They certainly aren't cool enough for me to bother going outside the game to trade for them. No item is imo. Some kind of coding that automatically increases the drop rate of an item that goes beyond the TP gold limit for a given amount of time (a year or more to prevent abuse) would be nice.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:There are currently 97 buy orders at 10K gold from 67 accounts for the chak egg. Clearly there are people that feel that it's worth at least that much.

Right. There are 25 people on gw2efficiency that combined have 158 chak egg sacks, that's 6.32 chak egg sacks on average on those 25 gw2efficiency accounts. So what's "clear" here is not that people feel it's "worth" it as much, but there are some "TP barons" that are hoarding all the chak egg sacks they can find to inflate its price. I'm willing to bet those 97 buy orders are from the same types of people that want to show the world that their investment is worth a lot.

@Ayrilana.1396 said:You do realize that players can put their sell posts below those overpriced orders? That the supply for 99% of the items in the game cannot be controlled by players?

See above. Some might be posting items at lower prices, but they are quickly being bought by the rich tp barons and then relisted at higher prices. When an item has such low amounts in circulation it's very easy to be manipulated by bots, TP barons and market manipulators, after all we are talking about a 200$ transaction for an in-game cosmetic item.

Ok. What does this have to do with whether the price cap should or shouldn’t be increased/removed?

The price that you are calling those are "worth" is a product of market manipulation. Those that are "saying" how much the items are worth are the same people selling them. The supply of those highly expensive items is actually controlled by players, given how there is handful with the entire supply, that can then post anything they want for it. So saying that the cap should be increased/removed because some market manipulators are setting higher prices than the cap (and calling it "what's it's worth") is an invalid argument. 25 people have 158 chak egg sacks and the same is true is for the other "expensive" items, why increase the cap to allow these players to profit further? Keep it and let them exploit each other or deal with RMT

And you do understand that 10k gold is 600$ right? IT always brings the news when items in certain games are being sold for absurd prices, even 10k gold is such a price, so why raise the cap?

[kharmin.7683]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:There are currently 97 buy orders at 10K gold from 67 accounts for the chak egg. Clearly there are people that feel that it's worth at least that much.

Right. There are 25 people on gw2efficiency that combined have 158 chak egg sacks, that's 6.32 chak egg sacks on average on those 25 gw2efficiency accounts. So what's "clear" here is not that people feel it's "worth" it as much, but there are some "TP barons" that are hoarding all the chak egg sacks they can find to inflate its price. I'm willing to bet those 97 buy orders are from the same types of people that want to show the world that their investment is worth a lot.

@Ayrilana.1396 said:You do realize that players can put their sell posts below those overpriced orders? That the supply for 99% of the items in the game cannot be controlled by players?

See above. Some might be posting items at lower prices, but they are quickly being bought by the rich tp barons and then relisted at higher prices. When an item has such low amounts in circulation it's very easy to be manipulated by bots, TP barons and market manipulators, after all we are talking about a 200$ transaction for an in-game cosmetic item.

Ok. What does this have to do with whether the price cap should or shouldn’t be increased/removed?

The price that you are calling those are "worth" is a product of market manipulation. Those that are "saying" how much the items are worth are the same people selling them. The supply of those highly expensive items is actually controlled by players, given how there is handful with the entire supply, that can then post anything they want for it.But if the item doesn't sell at such an inflated price, is that truly it's value? I disagree with the price being set by market manipulators. If they want to make a profit, then they have to sell items. Holding items doesn't gain any profit. They can only sell an item to a person who is willing to pay for it. If an item is listed at 10k gems, but doesn't sell then IMO it isn't worth 10k. If someone offers to buy it for 8k and it is sold, then the item was worth only 8k and that price was set by the purchaser, not the seller.

At least, that's how I see it working. I'm no economist.

[robertthebard.8150]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@"Tiilimon.6094" said:Basically anything a new player might need in the game drops in such quantities, that there will always be a cheap source even if the TP maximum prices were pushed up to a billion.There are already plenty of individuals playing the game who could just buy all t6 materials off the trading post and reprice em as they like to 10k, but they will have to stay online 247 to keep buying things as they are listed, and they can't stop the cheaper stuff that people are instantly selling to people who order em for low prices.

If you don't sell or buy items over 10k, this change would never affect you at all in any way tbh.

People generally are afraid of things they don't seem to understand, and I see a lot of that sort of fear in this thread.

Except it will eventually affect everything in the game. When you don't cap what players can sell for, they sell for what they think someone will pay. As players start generating more funds, other items start going up, and it doesn't take very long at all before a Minor Fire Sigil is a few hundred gold. I've seen base items listed in a game's AH for billions of the game's currency. Not capped, maxed out gear, but the base items. That's not a typo either, billions. By the time they started trying to add significant sinks for the currency, it was way too late.

So no, I'd rather not see the currency devalued so badly that new players looking for odds and ends see those prices, look at what they generate a day, and just quit.

What you're suggesting would never happen.

What I'm suggesting has already happened. It's even happened to more than just the one MMO. They just recently changed publishers, who took a look at the in game economy, and wiped the servers. I'm not buying "But this is GW 2, people aren't that greedy here", or similar, in a thread insisting that the max sell price for items be raised above what it is now.

Please provide examples and include

all

of the information to back them up.

It makes zero sense for the cap to impact items in this game unless it was already limiting them. Raising the cap isn't going to magically cause minor sigil prices to suddenly inflate.

Saying that it would essentially ignores basic economic theory. It doesn’t change the demand for an item. It doesn’t change the supply for an item. It certainly doesn’t impact the available gold that players have to spend on the item. But by all means... please provide the logic behind how raising the cap would cause all prices to inflate.

I'll just make is simple, they'll use the same rationale they're using here: It's worth what people will pay. As the prices for "desirable" items increases, and people start feeling that influx of currency, they will raise prices on other things as well.

Which has nothing to do with raising/removing the price cap.

In Rappelz, when I first started, empty pet cards were running around a million rupee each, that's the ingame currency. This was 15 years ago. The last time I played, those same cards were 10 million each. These aren't extravagant end game pets, but basic pets. The extravagant pets were much much higher. Empty dragon cards running in the 100s of millions. This, with a 0.00001% chance to actually tame it, if it were that even that good. Basic equipment was listing for billions. This, with the high probability, if you're not using the cash shop to win, of the item breaking during enchantment, and being unusable unless you can repair it, which also has to be purchased from the cash shop, or other players listing those items on the AH. Yeah, you're not getting those items cheap.

Please explain how this inflation was due to increasing/removing a price cap.

The net result, with no real sinks, was that everything on the AH started getting more and more expensive, to the point where, if you don't have a few billion rupee, you're not buying anything significant. Players that weren't generating enough income could just hit their wallet, and list things on the AH, slightly undercutting someone else, and get to where they too could list things for high prices too. We don't have to worry about the equipment here, but one can already see wildly fluctuating prices on the TP, what happens when that cap is removed? We already have people using third party sites to facilitate these trades, and frankly, since the taxes would increase with the sale price, those will continue anyway, so it doesn't really accomplish what the OP thinks it will. People desiring to avoid the tax will move to the third party sites, and the rest will "lose" money on their transactions. This isn't even my 10th MMO, let alone my first. I've seen what an unchecked economy can do to a game, and I'd prefer to not see it again.

You're failing to identify how removing a price cap causes inflation.

Also be aware that the GW2 economy has been fairly stable.

It wasn't. It was due to not having one at all, a point I am fairly certain I made in my first post, that got lost in the "but I want this, so I have to support it no matter what". The limitation is removed by simply not being there in the first place, and this is the end result. The same will be true for this. Players needing to raise the cash for these heavily inflated prices will raise the prices on whatever they can in order to raise the currency they need. This already happens, look at any item with tons of listings, and check out the price ranges they hit.

Well then prove that this cap is necessary in GW2. It just seems that a hyperbole is being used to create fear that removing the cap will somehow cause issues when 99.99% of the items in the game don't even break 5K and have remained fairly stable over the years.

Why does maintaining the status quo require proof? Prove that removing or raising this cap will improve the quality of life for everyone playing. The burden of proof isn't on me, I have the devs in my corner, as it were, since they put it in when they designed the market.

You made the claim that removing/increasing the price cap would cause prices for everything to increase. I'm simply asking you to back up that claim.

I already have. However, since prices in game aren't in the billions for items, even going off the grid to sell them, I'd say this system is working rather well. So, since you're pushing for a change, how about you support your claim that it won't happen. It's going to be a hard row, though, since we have statements in this thread that people are trading on third party websites to bypass both the limit and the taxes. I'm frankly surprised that ANet allows that, which they must, if people are going to post about it publicly, most MMOs discourage that kind of thing.

You haven’t. Nothing you have stated has backed up any correlation between a price cap raising and it being the cause to inflation of items.

Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean it wasn't provided. (...)

As far as I understand what you wrote in this thread (in previous posts, because somehow I can't even get myself to go through this one...), it's this:

if you raise the price cap on tp, the items will automatically raise their price to that cap

. Is this what you're saying?

If yes, then you're absolutely WRONG and the CURRENT gw2 situation regarding these rare items already prove you wrong.

It's amazing, because if you'd read the responses, instead of admitting that you hadn't, you'd already know that answer. But, since you won't, is there any reason to include it here?

Just in case: That is not what I said. I said people will start raising prices on other items, and I used the Minor Sigil of Fire as an example, in order to get the funds together for the items they're looking to buy at the increased cap. This will trickle down through items that are routinely listed, and that's how this kind of inflation happens. Contrary to arguments presented, I did not use something like "white gloves".

Where did I write anything about "something like white gloves", how can you talk about reading the posts when you're not even responding to anything I've said?

Your example with minor fire sigil is irrelevant, the price can still raise and on almost every single item in the game the cap isn't anywhere remotely near to the TP cap, so how is raising tp cap supposed to influence anything here? The items that are already valued at more than 10k gold are just an example for the fact that if people value something above that cap, they'll still sell it outside of tp regardless of that cap. Increasing tp cap wont magically start an insane increase of price of every item in the game, what are you even talking about?And if that's not what you're talking about, then what exactly is the downside of increasing the cap? (heeeey, there's none, except for the people that pretty much scam unaware -but still lucky- people by buying infusions for 10k on tp from them because that's the highest/only possible buy bid)

I get ya'll want it, ya'll want it to the point of admittedly ignoring posts, we have that admission here, from you. So this isn't me accusing you of something bad, this is me citing you on something you said, so I expect I won't be hearing from a moderator, this time?

...what?

Where did I say you did? I can bet you +1'd the post that did though, right? Another symptom of not actually reading posts, right?

I want to address the "but people are doing it off site, so this won't happen". A percentage of players are doing it off site. What's going to happen when they don't have to go off site to do it? "But they can undercut the price", sure, if you're looking at something that's 30k, just to pick a round number, and someone else is selling it for 29K gold and 99 silver, it's an undercut, and a common tactic used to undercut prices on a system like this. That keeps the 30k lister from just buying it and "flipping" it back onto the TP/AH/Broker, whatever it's called in that game. Not enough profit in it then. The seller doesn't know who bought it though, so they just think "look, people think it's worth that much, maybe I can raise it a little more". I've already suggested that people that think this is a good idea look at the TP for the maxed listed prices on items. What happens when that starts to become the minimum price, which, in a system with no checks, it can?

This isn't an overnight thing. In Neverwinter, it took a couple of weeks for this to manifest, or at least, to become obvious. It didn't take long in swtor either. It got really bad when it went F2P, as the sellers were listing items that F2P players might actually want at more credits than they could actually have to buy it. I used an example of base items earlier on, which was wrongfully interpreted as "white gear" in this thread. In Rappelz, gear can be enchanted to +20. It drops, however, at +0, which is the item's "base". I also used basic pet cards, these are not something you can go buy at a vendor, they had to be dropped in game. They had a low drop rate, and an even lower success rate when you tried to tame them. If you go to list this card on the AH there empty, it would auto list at 10k. When I started playing they were listing for 1 million, with some going way beyond that, and even rarer cards going well beyond that too. There were no checks and balances on that system, and prices reflected that, clearly.

That this game is this old, and this isn't the norm can be attributed to the cap, and the taxes, checks and balances, and that's why going off site is popular amongst those that actually do it, right? They can charge whatever they want, and if it's the only one available, "but it's what people are willing to pay". If it's the only option, and they really want it, is it, or is it the only option they have to buy it? I didn't know this existed until this thread, how many other players don't know about it now? When that doesn't have to be a thing any more, the TP prices will reflect just that. People are listing things for the max price now, when that goes up, so will what people are listing them for, that's the whole point of raising the cap, right?

I also suspect that this is why we don't have the RMT traffic other games do, at least in game. This is one of a handful of games where I can say that. DDO being another, and I don't recall seeing a lot of gold spam in ESO. At one point in Rappelz, you couldn't go to trainee island if you had to read map chat for anything, because you couldn't read it for all the gold spam. The fleet in swtor is the same, as are the starter worlds, and you'll even get in game mail from them. What do those games have in common? Unchecked prices on their AH equivalents, and astronomical prices on listed items. So, no thanks. I like not getting spam mail from 3rd party sites trying to sell me gold, and I like being able to hang out in map chat, mostly, w/out being bombarded by "buy our gold".

[Ayrilana.1396]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:There are currently 97 buy orders at 10K gold from 67 accounts for the chak egg. Clearly there are people that feel that it's worth at least that much.

Right. There are 25 people on gw2efficiency that combined have 158 chak egg sacks, that's 6.32 chak egg sacks on average on those 25 gw2efficiency accounts. So what's "clear" here is not that people feel it's "worth" it as much, but there are some "TP barons" that are hoarding all the chak egg sacks they can find to inflate its price. I'm willing to bet those 97 buy orders are from the same types of people that want to show the world that their investment is worth a lot.

@Ayrilana.1396 said:You do realize that players can put their sell posts below those overpriced orders? That the supply for 99% of the items in the game cannot be controlled by players?

See above. Some might be posting items at lower prices, but they are quickly being bought by the rich tp barons and then relisted at higher prices. When an item has such low amounts in circulation it's very easy to be manipulated by bots, TP barons and market manipulators, after all we are talking about a 200$ transaction for an in-game cosmetic item.

Ok. What does this have to do with whether the price cap should or shouldn’t be increased/removed?

The price that you are calling those are "worth" is a product of market manipulation. Those that are "saying" how much the items are worth are the same people selling them. The supply of those highly expensive items is actually controlled by players, given how there is handful with the entire supply, that can then post anything they want for it. So saying that the cap should be increased/removed because some market manipulators are setting higher prices than the cap (and calling it "what's it's worth") is an invalid argument. 25 people have 158 chak egg sacks and the same is true is for the other "expensive" items, why increase the cap to allow these players to profit further? Keep it and let them exploit each other or deal with RMT

And you do understand that 10k gold is 600$ right? IT always brings the news when items in certain games are being sold for absurd prices, even 10k gold is such a price, so why raise the cap?

As opposed to trading outside of the TP? One way or another, the item is being traded at a price greater than 10K.

This thread isn’t about whether the item should or shouldn’t be worth that much or if certain players are manipulating the price. It would be beneficial for another thread to be created that covers that topic rather than hijack/derail this one.

[maddoctor.2738]

@kharmin.7683 said:But if the item doesn't sell at such an inflated price, is that truly it's value? I disagree with the price being set by market manipulators.

I repeat, 25 players have 158 chak egg sacks, average 6 per person. Are you telling me they have so many because they want to have the effect on multiple characters? Or to create artificial scarcity and inflate the price? There are 97 buy orders on the TP for the items, if they really wanted to sell, they would.

[kharmin.7683]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:But if the item doesn't sell at such an inflated price, is that truly it's value? I disagree with the price being set by market manipulators.

I repeat, 25 players have 158 chak egg sacks, average 6 per person. Are you telling me they have so many because they want to have the effect on multiple characters? Or to create artificial scarcity and inflate the price? There are 97 buy orders on the TP for the items, if they really wanted to sell, they would.That the price is inflated does not equate to the actual value of the item. If it were the actual value, then it would be purchased at that price. Yes, I agree that this is an attempt by the seller to get the most profit that they can, but if the item doesn't sell for the price set, then that is not its value.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:But if the item doesn't sell at such an inflated price, is that truly it's value? I disagree with the price being set by market manipulators.

I repeat, 25 players have 158 chak egg sacks, average 6 per person. Are you telling me they have so many because they want to have the effect on multiple characters? Or to create artificial scarcity and inflate the price? There are 97 buy orders on the TP for the items, if they really wanted to sell, they would.

If they bought them at 20K a piece from regular players that got lucky to have them drop then they’d be taking a substantial loss if they sold them in the TP with the price cap set at 10K. If the cap were raised/removed, perhaps they would sell them.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:As opposed to trading outside of the TP? One way or another, the item is being traded at a price greater than 10K.

It's being traded at greater prices by those who buy them at those prices and then relist the same item at an even higher price to provide the illusion that there is trading going on.

This thread isn’t about whether the item should or shouldn’t be worth that much or if certain players are manipulating the price.

Actually this thread is all about what items should or shouldn't be worth because if you read the thread title it's about increasing the cap. Then you answered that the price is set by demand, and I provide you evidence that it's not, it's provided by manipulators.

It would be beneficial for another thread to be created that covers that topic rather than hijack/derail this one.

But this is the topic of the thread, market manipulators wanting to increase the gold cap to sell their expensive, manipulate items on the TP the "legit" way.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:If they bought them at 20K a piece from regular players that got lucky to have them drop then they’d be taking a substantial loss if they sold them in the TP with the price cap set at 10K. If the cap were raised/removed, perhaps they would sell them.

All the more reason not to increase the cap then. Instead they should lower it even further, so that substantial loss gets even bigger. The more they lose, the better for the game.

[Fuchslein.8639]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:But if the item doesn't sell at such an inflated price, is that truly it's value? I disagree with the price being set by market manipulators.

I repeat, 25 players have 158 chak egg sacks, average 6 per person. Are you telling me they have so many because they want to have the effect on multiple characters? Or to create artificial scarcity and inflate the price? There are 97 buy orders on the TP for the items, if they really wanted to sell, they would.

If they bought them at 20K a piece from regular players that got lucky to have them drop then they’d be taking a substantial loss if they sold them in the TP with the price cap set at 10K. If the cap were raised/removed, perhaps they would sell them.

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:But if the item doesn't sell at such an inflated price, is that truly it's value? I disagree with the price being set by market manipulators.

I repeat, 25 players have 158 chak egg sacks, average 6 per person. Are you telling me they have so many because they want to have the effect on multiple characters? Or to create artificial scarcity and inflate the price? There are 97 buy orders on the TP for the items, if they really wanted to sell, they would.

If they bought them at 20K a piece from regular players that got lucky to have them drop then they’d be taking a substantial loss if they sold them in the TP with the price cap set at 10K. If the cap were raised/removed, perhaps they would sell them.

Again. I would like to know why these people would be more interested in selling it at TP. The fee is still there, and would be even higher as the price gets higher.

One of the people here even said that as the price increases, the fee should be increased. This was immediately attacked, although it would be only logical.

[TheGrimm.5624]

@"maddoctor.2738" said:But this is the topic of the thread, market manipulators wanting to increase the gold cap to sell their expensive, manipulate items on the TP the "legit" way.

Fear mongering isn't an argument. If this happens, ArenaNet should have GMs to deal with it. And no, I don't have anything that would be priced at that value. But the best way for a gold sink to work is to let it work.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:As opposed to trading outside of the TP? One way or another, the item is being traded at a price greater than 10K.

It's being traded at greater prices by those who buy them at those prices and then relist the same item at an even higher price to provide the illusion that there is trading going on.

The items didn’t magically come to exist in those players inventories. Regular players got them as drops and they’re forced to either sell at 10K or do 3rd party trades in order to sell them for what they’re being sold for.

This thread isn’t about whether the item should or shouldn’t be worth that much or if certain players are manipulating the price.

Actually this thread is all about what items should or shouldn't be worth because if you read the thread title it's about increasing the cap. Then you answered that the price is set by demand, and I provide you evidence that it's not, it's provided by manipulators.

The cap being increased/removed has nothing to do with whether a subset of players disagree with the legitimacy of a particular items value.

The reason I went into demand is that I mistakenly let some people to hijack the thread who had their own separate agenda about whether the item should really be worth that.

It would be beneficial for another thread to be created that covers that topic rather than hijack/derail this one.

But this is the topic of the thread, market manipulators wanting to increase the gold cap to sell their expensive, manipulate items on the TP the "legit" way.

The thread is about the price cap and not whether you believe the price of an item is manipulated.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Fuchslein.8639 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:But if the item doesn't sell at such an inflated price, is that truly it's value? I disagree with the price being set by market manipulators.

I repeat, 25 players have 158 chak egg sacks, average 6 per person. Are you telling me they have so many because they want to have the effect on multiple characters? Or to create artificial scarcity and inflate the price? There are 97 buy orders on the TP for the items, if they really wanted to sell, they would.

If they bought them at 20K a piece from regular players that got lucky to have them drop then they’d be taking a substantial loss if they sold them in the TP with the price cap set at 10K. If the cap were raised/removed, perhaps they would sell them.

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:But if the item doesn't sell at such an inflated price, is that truly it's value? I disagree with the price being set by market manipulators.

I repeat, 25 players have 158 chak egg sacks, average 6 per person. Are you telling me they have so many because they want to have the effect on multiple characters? Or to create artificial scarcity and inflate the price? There are 97 buy orders on the TP for the items, if they really wanted to sell, they would.

If they bought them at 20K a piece from regular players that got lucky to have them drop then they’d be taking a substantial loss if they sold them in the TP with the price cap set at 10K. If the cap were raised/removed, perhaps they would sell them.

Again. I would like to know why these people would be more interested in selling it at TP. The fee is still there, and would be even higher as the price gets higher.

One of the people here even said that as the price increases, the fee should be increased. This was immediately attacked, although it would be only logical.

There are players who may not wish to sell the item through trades, as they don’t feel comfortable with the risk, and would pay the TP tax. Unfortunately they don’t have the option to sell it for what it’s being traded at because of the price cap.

[kharmin.7683]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:The thread is about the price cap and not whether you believe the price of an item is manipulated.

I'm not sure that the two concepts are exclusive. Without manipulation, would there be a need for a price cap? Not trolling, just trying to understand the two.

[Fuchslein.8639]

"There are items that drop in game that are worth more than 10k gold"

These were the first words of the TE.How much is an item value.A lot can be deduced from this. Just as manipulated this price is ...

And I think that a thread drifting away in the discussion is nothing new. As long as it stays within the topic, otherwise you have all rights to report someone for spam.Why does it bother you so much that @maddoctor.2738 addresses an important side issue?

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Fuchslein.8639 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:But if the item doesn't sell at such an inflated price, is that truly it's value? I disagree with the price being set by market manipulators.

I repeat, 25 players have 158 chak egg sacks, average 6 per person. Are you telling me they have so many because they want to have the effect on multiple characters? Or to create artificial scarcity and inflate the price? There are 97 buy orders on the TP for the items, if they really wanted to sell, they would.

If they bought them at 20K a piece from regular players that got lucky to have them drop then they’d be taking a substantial loss if they sold them in the TP with the price cap set at 10K. If the cap were raised/removed, perhaps they would sell them.

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:But if the item doesn't sell at such an inflated price, is that truly it's value? I disagree with the price being set by market manipulators.

I repeat, 25 players have 158 chak egg sacks, average 6 per person. Are you telling me they have so many because they want to have the effect on multiple characters? Or to create artificial scarcity and inflate the price? There are 97 buy orders on the TP for the items, if they really wanted to sell, they would.

If they bought them at 20K a piece from regular players that got lucky to have them drop then they’d be taking a substantial loss if they sold them in the TP with the price cap set at 10K. If the cap were raised/removed, perhaps they would sell them.

Again. I would like to know why these people would be more interested in selling it at TP. The fee is still there, and would be even higher as the price gets higher.

One of the people here even said that as the price increases, the fee should be increased. This was immediately attacked, although it would be only logical.

There are players who may not wish to sell the item through trades, as they don’t feel comfortable with the risk, and would pay the TP tax. Unfortunately they don’t have the option to sell it for what it’s being traded at because of the price cap.

And how many of them would justify such an investment of time by Anet?Personally, I see much more important issues on the table that affect more people.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:The thread is about the price cap and not whether you believe the price of an item is manipulated.

I'm not sure that the two concepts are exclusive. Without manipulation, would there be a need for a price cap? Not trolling, just trying to understand the two.

Wouldn’t it be better for all transactions to occur within the TP?

[kharmin.7683]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:The thread is about the price cap and not whether you believe the price of an item is manipulated.

I'm not sure that the two concepts are exclusive. Without manipulation, would there be a need for a price cap? Not trolling, just trying to understand the two.

Wouldn’t it be better for all transactions to occur within the TP?

Yes, I agree. However, I don't know how Anet can police people trading outside of it.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:The items didn’t magically come to exist in those players inventories. Regular players got them as drops and they’re forced to either sell at 10K or do 3rd party trades in order to sell them for what they’re being sold for.

"Forced" is a strong word, if they don't like selling the items for 10k they can try lower values. As for going to 3rd party websites that's also their own fault for not setting values under the 10k cap. That's not a problem with the cap, but with how much those players want to value their items.

The thread is about the price cap and not whether you believe the price of an item is manipulated.

I gave the argument of the price being manipulated to counter the idea of how much items are "worth", I even gave examples on why I say the price is being manipulated to inflate it and increase it, therefore demand has very little to do with the price of such items.