Raise the sell price limit on the trading post

[Mungo Zen.9364]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Mungo Zen.9364" said:In my original post I mentioned that this is not an 'everyone problem' as it affects a small subset of the player base. Who is served by raising the TP price above 10k?

Some questions in identifying if this issue are:How many players are operating at or above 10k gold at this point in time?How easily can a player reach or exceed 10k gold currently?

Assuming gw2efficiency is somewhat accurate for those who registered there, over 87% of the 290,000 registered accounts have less than 800 gold currently, and have liquid gold less than 2000. It suggests that a large portion of the playerbase do not operate at 10k gold. I personally cannot fathom a world where I have maximized my playtime to reach the 10k plateau, but some do, some are lucky, some are hard workers, but I really feel those players are in the minority.

Now, I wouldn't stand behind those numbers unless I was sure that they are clean (and I am not sure) but, Anet would have clean numbers and know exactly how much of the active playerbase is over 10k, and that I believe is one of the major factors in why this cap is okay where it is now.

Theoretical Example:Let's just say that the TP cap was always at 100g instead of 10,000g. Most players can accrue 100g pretty quickly, and it would mean that a large portion of the player base would be negatively affected by the TP cap. If, in this theoretical situation Anet were deciding how much to raise the cap, they would likely base it upon the ability for players to attain gold and the average amount of gold players sit at.

I would contend that the TP limit does not

need

to be raised as the majority of the playerbase does not accrue enough gold to buy or sell items above 10k. That said, gold creep is real in many games, and an average player will likely have more gold today than last year. If Anet gives players ways to earn not 10's of gold an hour but 100's of gold an hour then items on the TP will be affected as well, and the need to raise the TP cap will be a concern for more of the playerbase than it already is.

How is the "number of people operating on that level" relevant to anything here? How is this an argument against raising the tp limit? If anything, the current limit makes "rich richer" by serving the first person that made the capped 10k buy-bets on the items that later can be sold for higher amounts off the tp. Platyers that don't check the resources outside of the game, get insanely lucky by getting the drop would luckily sell it on tp for 10k to the highest bid possible without knowing how much they actually could get instead. So that's at least one argument for raising the cap -making the bets actually correspond the "actual" (perceived) value of the most expensive items and reducing the possiblity of unaware players getting, well, scammed by the game's limitation that players

already go around if they're aware of it

.

What exactly stands against raising that cap, even moreso based on your "limited player number operating with that amount of gold"? Because the claim that "raising the cap will raise the price up to the cap anyways" (made by someone else in this thread, not you) is just false.If your whole point here is that "not a lot of people care/are able to pay out anyways" then that's some weak-kitten point.

I guess I would ask why you think "the claim that "raising the cap will raise the price up to the cap anyways" (made by someone else in this thread, not you) is just false"

Why do you think this is false? I also think this is false, because players will spend within their ability to earn. I also believe that currently most players are not in a position to be buying or selling items at or above 10k, as the game does not provide an easy way for players to earn that type of gold. Is it possible, absolutely. Are there players who this affects, again, absolutely. Does this affect all players, no.

[Mungo Zen.9364]

As a separate thought, unless Anet directly addresses the negotiation for trading of items outside of the game, people will continue to use this avenue. People with vast wealth tend to make smart money choices like not paying for things they don't have to. If there is a way to avoid paying the 15% TP fees, people will use them.

[BunjiKugashira.9754]

I don't understand how people can justify this gold cap as a gameplay mechanic. As a technical limitation? Maybe. Though in an earlier post I showed that we can easily increase the cap by a factor of 10 before hitting possible technical limitations. As a gameplay mechanic? HELL NO!

1. The cap has been in the trading post for many years before the first item ever hit the cap. This should be a big hint that it wasn't intended as a gameplay mechanic.
2. The value of items is not determined by the cap. If it was, we would see infusions listed for sale at or below 10k. Instead we see a heap of buy listings.
3. ANet has always warned about trading outside the trading post. It seems counter-intuitive to force high value trades outside the tp.

The current cap is detrimental for both buyers and sellers.For sellers: Anyone who sells his infusions at 10k is essentially getting scammed. That's like selling a new Lamborghini for 10k€ because your bank doesn't allow transactions above that limit. The difference in value goes to whoever was lucky enough to have his buy listing served. Most likely a reseller who will then proceed to sell the item outside the tp for its real value. This primarily affects new and/or inexperienced players who may get a lucky drop.

For buyers: Trading outside the tp is risky. Ok, that's also true for sellers, but scammers trying to get easy gold are more frequent. The biggest problem is finding a seller in the first place. Buyers could of course place a buy listing on the tp. How likely is that to be served? I don't know if buy listings are served in the order they were placed or randomly. You will soon notice that this doesn't matter. There are currently (as of writing this post) 23 buy listings for the Heart of the Khan-Ur at 10kg. So far the item has been traded 0 times at this price. Source The Chak Egg Sac has 95 buy listings at 10kg and was traded a total of 1 time!

Thanks to the gold limit 100% of all Heart of the Khan-Ur infusions that were ever traded were traded outside the trading post. Other infusions show the same pattern.

Should items be valued above 10kg? That's debatable. Should item sales be forced outside the trading post because of a gold cap? That's a hard no.

[maddoctor.2738]

@kharmin.7683 said:

Assuming gw2efficiency is somewhat accurate for those who registered there, over 87% of the 290,000 registered accounts have less than 800 gold currently, and have liquid gold less than 2000. It suggests that a large portion of the playerbase do not operate at 10k gold.

IMO this is a stretch to make this assumption as GW2efficiency isn't enough of a sample size.

You are saying that a large portion of the playerbase operates around 10k gold? If the vast majority of the more invested players have under 800 gold, then under what logic, the rest of the playerbase will have higher numbers? It's good to contend the idea of the sample size provided by gw2efficiency but in many cases that sample size is more than enough.

[robertthebard.8150]

@Linken.6345 said:

@"robertthebard.8150" said:

You dont seem to have any argument to back up your facts from other games that dont have anything to do with gw2.So maybe you should just admit your wrong and let this one go mate.

It's exactly the difference that has me against this idea. What difference is that? The lack of gold spammers. "But players won't jack up prices"? Really? So all the posts in this thread about trading on third party sites are lies? They've jacked up the prices high enough that they can't use the TP on those items already, so your argument is now what, that they'll only affect those items? What about the people that don't have the money to buy those items, but want them? Is it going to be what one poster suggested earlier? They straight out suggested RMT. Guess what that does? It tells the RMT people that there may be a market where there isn't one, or maybe there already is one, and that's why people think this is a good idea?

Or, and this is just as likely, they jack up the prices on items they're already selling to raise that money. Go ahead, tell me that that doesn't happen already. That's what you're going to have to do to convince me that I'm wrong. I really don't want to spend a lot of time in the TP, going item by item on popular stuff showing the price differences, but it's clear that anybody espousing this idea that there won't be any "price gouging" hasn't really looked at the TP with any intent to sell anything. Frankly, it's not worth my time, because once again "feelings over facts". "Just admit that you're wrong, so I can win an argument on the internet"... Here's your sign.

[Linken.6345]

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

You dont seem to have any argument to back up your facts from other games that dont have anything to do with gw2.So maybe you should just admit your wrong and let this one go mate.

It's exactly the difference that has me against this idea. What difference is that? The lack of gold spammers. "But players won't jack up prices"? Really? So all the posts in this thread about trading on third party sites are lies? They've jacked up the prices high enough that they can't use the TP on those items already, so your argument is now what, that they'll only affect those items? What about the people that don't have the money to buy those items, but want them? Is it going to be what one poster suggested earlier? They straight out suggested RMT. Guess what that does? It tells the RMT people that there may be a market where there isn't one, or maybe there already is one, and that's why people think this is a good idea?

Or, and this is just as likely, they jack up the prices on items they're already selling to raise that money. Go ahead, tell me that that doesn't happen already. That's what you're going to have to do to convince me that I'm wrong. I really don't want to spend a lot of time in the TP, going item by item on popular stuff showing the price differences, but it's clear that anybody espousing this idea that there won't be any "price gouging" hasn't really looked at the TP with any intent to sell anything. Frankly, it's not worth my time, because once again "feelings over facts". "Just admit that you're wrong, so I can win an argument on the internet"... Here's your sign.

Look at sigil of nullification for example why did it spike because someone with money bought up all the supply when they found out it was used in an armor collection.

Look were it is now its not 5-6 gold anymore is it?

So its not that random player bob finds out he want a chak egg sack and start selling minor sigil of fire for 100 gold or silk for 150g thats not going to happen here.

Its if anet finds out that they want something in a collection then the first person who unlock it buys up and trickle said item out that earns them money.

I admit i sold quite a few sigil of nullification that I got from weapons and leveling up key farmer alts to 65 myself.Why wouldent I easy money from the I want it now crowd.

EditGold sellers got nothing to do with it and why other games got a problem with inflation seem to be its way to easy and fun to earn tons of money.

And you still havent counted how we could have gold sellers at the start of the games life when the 10k cap was the same as now and now days we dont seem to have any.

The 10k cap was also put in place from the start when it was a lot harder to earn gold then it is now.

[Dayra.7405]

@Vavume.8065 said:

@Ubi.4136 said:There are items that drop in game that are worth more than 10k gold.

I don't think any item should be worth over 10k gold.

Obviously, some are as wealth is concentrated in few hands.

So yes, if and only if, the TP-tax increases with price, e.g. 15% for prices up to 5000, 25% for price up to 10k, and 105 more fore every 10k more ;)

[Sobx.1758]

@Mungo Zen.9364 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Mungo Zen.9364 said:In my original post I mentioned that this is not an 'everyone problem' as it affects a small subset of the player base. Who is served by raising the TP price above 10k?

Some questions in identifying if this issue are:How many players are operating at or above 10k gold at this point in time?How easily can a player reach or exceed 10k gold currently?

Assuming gw2efficiency is somewhat accurate for those who registered there, over 87% of the 290,000 registered accounts have less than 800 gold currently, and have liquid gold less than 2000. It suggests that a large portion of the playerbase do not operate at 10k gold. I personally cannot fathom a world where I have maximized my playtime to reach the 10k plateau, but some do, some are lucky, some are hard workers, but I really feel those players are in the minority.

Now, I wouldn't stand behind those numbers unless I was sure that they are clean (and I am not sure) but, Anet would have clean numbers and know exactly how much of the active playerbase is over 10k, and that I believe is one of the major factors in why this cap is okay where it is now.

Theoretical Example:Let's just say that the TP cap was always at 100g instead of 10,000g. Most players can accrue 100g pretty quickly, and it would mean that a large portion of the player base would be negatively affected by the TP cap. If, in this theoretical situation Anet were deciding how much to raise the cap, they would likely base it upon the ability for players to attain gold and the average amount of gold players sit at.

I would contend that the TP limit does not

need

to be raised as the majority of the playerbase does not accrue enough gold to buy or sell items above 10k. That said, gold creep is real in many games, and an average player will likely have more gold today than last year. If Anet gives players ways to earn not 10's of gold an hour but 100's of gold an hour then items on the TP will be affected as well, and the need to raise the TP cap will be a concern for more of the playerbase than it already is.

How is the "number of people operating on that level" relevant to anything here? How is this an argument against raising the tp limit? If anything, the current limit makes "rich richer" by serving the first person that made the capped 10k buy-bets on the items that later can be sold for higher amounts off the tp. Platyers that don't check the resources outside of the game, get insanely lucky by getting the drop would luckily sell it on tp for 10k to the highest bid possible without knowing how much they actually could get instead. So that's at least one argument for raising the cap -making the bets actually correspond the "actual" (perceived) value of the most expensive items and reducing the possiblity of unaware players getting, well, scammed by the game's limitation that players

already go around if they're aware of it

.

What exactly stands against raising that cap, even moreso based on your "limited player number operating with that amount of gold"? Because the claim that "raising the cap will raise the price up to the cap anyways" (made by someone else in this thread, not you) is just false.If your whole point here is that "not a lot of people care/are able to pay out anyways" then that's some weak-kitten point.

I guess I would ask why you think "the claim that "raising the cap will raise the price up to the cap anyways" (made by someone else in this thread, not you) is just false"

People go around the TP cap by trading outside of it already for quite some time and those items aren't automatically worth the cap of what they can trade for it, it still has a subjective value not relevant to that cap. Right?

Why do you think this is false? I also think this is false, because players will spend within their ability to earn.

Ok.

I also believe that currently most players are not in a position to be buying or selling items at or above 10k, as the game does not provide an easy way for players to earn that type of gold. Is it possible, absolutely. Are there players who this affects, again, absolutely. Does this affect all players, no.

Yes, I understood that this is your stance, I even wrote that in my previous post. And you didn't really answer to that post, instead just repeated what you said before. Or did I miss something?

[Anemone.5320]

Who on earth has 10k gold?

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Anemone.5320 said:Who on earth has 10k gold?

A lot of people. I'd easily have over that much if I made the effort to sell the chak egg that I got over a year ago. If the price cap were higher I may have just sold it on the TP and be done with it, but considering that I'd be losing out on half the value that others are willing to pay for it, I have to trade outside of the TP.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Anemone.5320 said:Who on earth has 10k gold?

A lot of people. I'd easily have over that much if I made the effort to sell the chak egg that I got over a year ago. If the price cap were higher I may have just sold it on the TP and be done with it, but considering that I'd be losing out on half the value that others are willing to pay for it, I have to trade outside of the TP.No, you don't

have

to trade outside of TP. You just

want

to earn more from the transaction that TP currently allows.

[Sobx.1758]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@"Anemone.5320" said:Who on earth has 10k gold?

A lot of people. I'd easily have over that much if I made the effort to sell the chak egg that I got over a year ago. If the price cap were higher I may have just sold it on the TP and be done with it, but considering that I'd be losing out on half the value that others are willing to pay for it, I have to trade outside of the TP.No, you don't

have

to trade outside of TP. You just

want

to earn more from the transaction that TP currently allows.

The item is worth more than the current tp limits allow to sell it for. He "needs" to sell it outside of tp in the same manner you "need" not to send all your gold and items to a random stranger so he gets an insane profit that you could quite easly get instead. So yeah, he doesn't "need to", but not doing so would be pretty stupid. Just a reminder that you don't "need" to sell your car for 5$, you simply want to sell it for more if you'd be selling it, because you know how much people can pay for it, a.k.a you know its actual value. You understand how the "need" here means simply doing something that's logical?

[Sobx.1758]

@"Anemone.5320" said:Who on earth has 10k gold?

Quite some people, but I don't see how that's relevant. Are you just curious or are you trying to make a point by saying "nobody" or "not enough" people have 10k?

[Obtena.7952]

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@"Tiilimon.6094" said:Basically anything a new player might need in the game drops in such quantities, that there will always be a cheap source even if the TP maximum prices were pushed up to a billion.There are already plenty of individuals playing the game who could just buy all t6 materials off the trading post and reprice em as they like to 10k, but they will have to stay online 247 to keep buying things as they are listed, and they can't stop the cheaper stuff that people are instantly selling to people who order em for low prices.

If you don't sell or buy items over 10k, this change would never affect you at all in any way tbh.

People generally are afraid of things they don't seem to understand, and I see a lot of that sort of fear in this thread.

Except it will eventually affect everything in the game. When you don't cap what players can sell for, they sell for what they think someone will pay. As players start generating more funds, other items start going up, and it doesn't take very long at all before a Minor Fire Sigil is a few hundred gold. I've seen base items listed in a game's AH for billions of the game's currency. Not capped, maxed out gear, but the base items. That's not a typo either, billions. By the time they started trying to add significant sinks for the currency, it was way too late.

So no, I'd rather not see the currency devalued so badly that new players looking for odds and ends see those prices, look at what they generate a day, and just quit.

What you're suggesting would never happen.

What I'm suggesting has already happened. It's even happened to more than just the one MMO. They just recently changed publishers, who took a look at the in game economy, and wiped the servers. I'm not buying "But this is GW 2, people aren't that greedy here", or similar, in a thread insisting that the max sell price for items be raised above what it is now.

Please provide examples and include

all

of the information to back them up.

It makes zero sense for the cap to impact items in this game unless it was already limiting them. Raising the cap isn't going to magically cause minor sigil prices to suddenly inflate.

Saying that it would essentially ignores basic economic theory. It doesn’t change the demand for an item. It doesn’t change the supply for an item. It certainly doesn’t impact the available gold that players have to spend on the item. But by all means... please provide the logic behind how raising the cap would cause all prices to inflate.

I'll just make is simple, they'll use the same rationale they're using here: It's worth what people will pay. As the prices for "desirable" items increases, and people start feeling that influx of currency, they will raise prices on other things as well.

Which has nothing to do with raising/removing the price cap.

In Rappelz, when I first started, empty pet cards were running around a million rupee each, that's the ingame currency. This was 15 years ago. The last time I played, those same cards were 10 million each. These aren't extravagant end game pets, but basic pets. The extravagant pets were much much higher. Empty dragon cards running in the 100s of millions. This, with a 0.00001% chance to actually tame it, if it were that even that good. Basic equipment was listing for billions. This, with the high probability, if you're not using the cash shop to win, of the item breaking during enchantment, and being unusable unless you can repair it, which also has to be purchased from the cash shop, or other players listing those items on the AH. Yeah, you're not getting those items cheap.

Please explain how this inflation was due to increasing/removing a price cap.

The net result, with no real sinks, was that everything on the AH started getting more and more expensive, to the point where, if you don't have a few billion rupee, you're not buying anything significant. Players that weren't generating enough income could just hit their wallet, and list things on the AH, slightly undercutting someone else, and get to where they too could list things for high prices too. We don't have to worry about the equipment here, but one can already see wildly fluctuating prices on the TP, what happens when that cap is removed? We already have people using third party sites to facilitate these trades, and frankly, since the taxes would increase with the sale price, those will continue anyway, so it doesn't really accomplish what the OP thinks it will. People desiring to avoid the tax will move to the third party sites, and the rest will "lose" money on their transactions. This isn't even my 10th MMO, let alone my first. I've seen what an unchecked economy can do to a game, and I'd prefer to not see it again.

You're failing to identify how removing a price cap causes inflation.

Also be aware that the GW2 economy has been fairly stable.

It wasn't. It was due to not having one at all, a point I am fairly certain I made in my first post, that got lost in the "but I want this, so I have to support it no matter what". The limitation is removed by simply not being there in the first place, and this is the end result. The same will be true for this. Players needing to raise the cash for these heavily inflated prices will raise the prices on whatever they can in order to raise the currency they need. This already happens, look at any item with tons of listings, and check out the price ranges they hit.

Well then prove that this cap is necessary in GW2. It just seems that a hyperbole is being used to create fear that removing the cap will somehow cause issues when 99.99% of the items in the game don't even break 5K and have remained fairly stable over the years.

Why does maintaining the status quo require proof? Prove that removing or raising this cap will improve the quality of life for everyone playing. The burden of proof isn't on me, I have the devs in my corner, as it were, since they put it in when they designed the market.

You made the claim that removing/increasing the price cap would cause prices for everything to increase. I'm simply asking you to back up that claim.

I already have. However, since prices in game aren't in the billions for items, even going off the grid to sell them, I'd say this system is working rather well. So, since you're pushing for a change, how about you support your claim that it won't happen. It's going to be a hard row, though, since we have statements in this thread that people are trading on third party websites to bypass both the limit and the taxes. I'm frankly surprised that ANet allows that, which they must, if people are going to post about it publicly, most MMOs discourage that kind of thing.

You haven’t. Nothing you have stated has backed up any correlation between a price cap raising and it being the cause to inflation of items.

Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean it wasn't provided.

It's not about liking the answer ... I too do not see any correlation between prices increasing and price cap being lifted. Logically, there isn't one because prices are simply supply/demand driven tempered by the overall gold pool in the game ... and price cap doesn't affect that. If anything, lifting price cap LOWERS prices for other things because the amount of tax removed from the game increases and lowers the total gold pool players have available for purchasing other goods.

I mean, put another way, if there is a correlation between price cap and prices for other items, it's so small compared to the other factors that affect the item prices that it's not worth considering as a reason to do or not lift it.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Anemone.5320 said:Who on earth has 10k gold?

A lot of people. I'd easily have over that much if I made the effort to sell the chak egg that I got over a year ago. If the price cap were higher I may have just sold it on the TP and be done with it, but considering that I'd be losing out on half the value that others are willing to pay for it, I have to trade outside of the TP.No, you don't

have

to trade outside of TP. You just

want

to earn more from the transaction that TP currently allows.

I’m not understanding whether you’re disagreeing with me or not.

Yes, I don’t have to trade outside of the TP just as I don’t have to use the TP as it has a vendor value. This is true.

Yes, I want to earn more than the TP allows because the item is worth more than that. Similarly why I wouldn’t want to vendor the item because it’s worth more than the vendor allows.

All of which I felt was fairly obvious in my post.

[Sugar Min.5834]

A better solution is to raise the drop rates of those over-rated infusions so that their worth will never exceed the selling price limit on the TP.

[Tukaram.8256]

The price cap was probably just chosen as a ridiculously high cap, because something had to be put in for coding. If the rarity of items is such that the price is now normal - then it is time to increase the drop rates, not the price cap.

[fable spirt.8465]

I say leave the price cap as no one is selling items of that value on the TP, and if they are then why. The cost to post it would be horrendous and there are verified 3rd party traders and even streamers that live stream trades that can be used. Think of the trading post as current day Amazon and the third parties as early 2000 eBay. While yes your trade is more secure on Amazon you can get more for it and trade better on eBay.

[Cyninja.2954]

Might be relevant to this discussion:

Drama in the trading community.

I don't know all the details, but since nobody else has made a post I figured I would.

Today there has been some drama in the trading community, one of the richest players in the game with an estimated net worth of 10m+ gold was accused of RMTing and as such he was blacklisted by several trading communities. Together with his trading guild friends.

As a result, he sold at least 30-50 Chak Infusions directly to buy orders for 10 000 gold each. He has been hoarding and gatekeeping these infusions for years to inflate the value of them. As well as multiple confetti infusions.

Then he put up a buy order for over 200 000 Mystic Coins in an attempt to screw with the entire GW2 market.

There may be other things involved as well, I don't know the details. But in short, one of the richest players in this game is having a bit of a meltdown. Bad news for some of the other very rich players, good news for most others as Chak Infusions can finally be bought. There has been a line of around 100 buy orders at all times for years on these, and it has finally been broken. So we're back to a situation where the person with the highest buy order gets the price, instead of "The person with the oldest 10000g buy order gets to be next in line.".

The players have not been banned yet. No idea if they will be.

I figured the GW2 community might be interested in this though.https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/jq3d29/drama_in_the_trading_community/

As mentioned by me and others earlier, the scarcity for such low drop items can be manipulated past the 10k trading post limit IF the perception of scarcity is upheld and the out of game trade profit without tax is big enough to sustain buying the item at 10k.

One can now argue either way:

• the drop rate scarcity for the Chak Infusion is not so low as to actually make the infusion so rare that prices above 10k are warranted (hard to say since the item is heavily managed).
• the scarcity is what it is and the developers should react to it on the one hand potentially removing the ability to easily manipulate the item (I explained where the majority profit and gain comes in this 1 case) or on the other hand potentially make the situation worse.

@Tukaram.8256 said:The price cap was probably just chosen as a ridiculously high cap, because something had to be put in for coding. If the rarity of items is such that the price is now normal - then it is time to increase the drop rates, not the price cap.

This cap literally only affects 1 (EDIT: 2 items, Chak Infusion and Confetti Infusion) item and even that items scarcity is knowingly being manipulated. There is absolutely no reason to remove the cap for the 0.0000001% of players who got lucky and want to maximize their gain in a manipulated system while at the same time opening the flood gates to potential other issues.

Once we see multiple items get near or breach the 10k cap of the TP, this might change.

EDIT:Minor correction, there are 2 items affected by this, I was not aware the confetti infusion had also reached 10k.

EDIT2:Minor correction again for clarity, there are 2 infusions affected by this which have multiple iterations. So technically the amount of items extends to all subcategory versions of those infusions which breach the 10k limit.

[Fuchslein.8639]

I wonder if they all still play who were lucky. According to the thread there were a lot of infusions going away for 1k xD.

So much for the topic they are worth their money and the market is manipulation free ^^.

[Sobx.1758]

@"Cyninja.2954" said:Might be relevant to this discussion:

Drama in the trading community.

I don't know all the details, but since nobody else has made a post I figured I would.

Today there has been some drama in the trading community, one of the richest players in the game with an estimated net worth of 10m+ gold was accused of RMTing and as such he was blacklisted by several trading communities. Together with his trading guild friends.

As a result, he sold at least 30-50 Chak Infusions directly to buy orders for 10 000 gold each. He has been hoarding and gatekeeping these infusions for years to inflate the value of them. As well as multiple confetti infusions.

Then he put up a buy order for over 200 000 Mystic Coins in an attempt to screw with the entire GW2 market.

There may be other things involved as well, I don't know the details. But in short, one of the richest players in this game is having a bit of a meltdown. Bad news for some of the other very rich players, good news for most others as Chak Infusions can finally be bought. There has been a line of around 100 buy orders at all times for years on these, and it has finally been broken. So we're back to a situation where the person with the highest buy order gets the price, instead of "The person with the oldest 10000g buy order gets to be next in line.".

The players have not been banned yet. No idea if they will be.

I figured the GW2 community might be interested in this though.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/jq3d29/drama_in_the_trading_community/

As mentioned by me and others earlier, the scarcity for such low drop items can be manipulated past the 10k trading post limit IF the perception of scarcity is upheld and the out of game trade profit without tax is big enough to sustain buying the item at 10k.

One can now argue either way:

• the drop rate scarcity for the Chak Infusion is not so low as to actually make the infusion so rare that prices above 10k are warranted (hard to say since the item is heavily managed).
• the scarcity is what it is and the developers should react to it on the one hand potentially removing the ability to easily manipulate the item (I explained where the majority profit and gain comes in this 1 case) or on the other hand potentially make the situation worse.

@"Tukaram.8256" said:The price cap was probably just chosen as a ridiculously high cap, because something had to be put in for coding. If the rarity of items is such that the price is now normal - then it is time to increase the drop rates, not the price cap.

This cap literally only affects 1 (EDIT: 2 items, Chak Infusion and Confetti Infusion) item and even that items scarcity is knowingly being manipulated. There is absolutely no reason to remove the cap for the 0.0000001% of players who got lucky and want to maximize their gain in a manipulated system while at the same time opening the flood gates to potential other issues.

There absolutely is a reason and this situation is an example for why they could do it: so people can't so easly lock the supply just because they've stacked buy bids for the max amount the tp lets them. The fact that a small % of people can be affected is irrelevant, what's more relevant is that some people actually can and are affected (including newer, unaware players that just happened to get lucky and then feel bad because they "got scammed by tp limits"). I don't get the logic behind "I can't afford it, so it shouldn't be even considered" -how is this even a legitimate argument?

There miiiiiight be an argument for raising the drop rate for it (seems "a bit" late for that imo), but tbh I don't see anything wrong about having at least some ultimately rare items -even moreso when they're purely cosmetic.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Cyninja.2954" said:Might be relevant to this discussion:

Drama in the trading community.

I don't know all the details, but since nobody else has made a post I figured I would.

Today there has been some drama in the trading community, one of the richest players in the game with an estimated net worth of 10m+ gold was accused of RMTing and as such he was blacklisted by several trading communities. Together with his trading guild friends.

As a result, he sold at least 30-50 Chak Infusions directly to buy orders for 10 000 gold each. He has been hoarding and gatekeeping these infusions for years to inflate the value of them. As well as multiple confetti infusions.

Then he put up a buy order for over 200 000 Mystic Coins in an attempt to screw with the entire GW2 market.

There may be other things involved as well, I don't know the details. But in short, one of the richest players in this game is having a bit of a meltdown. Bad news for some of the other very rich players, good news for most others as Chak Infusions can finally be bought. There has been a line of around 100 buy orders at all times for years on these, and it has finally been broken. So we're back to a situation where the person with the highest buy order gets the price, instead of "The person with the oldest 10000g buy order gets to be next in line.".

The players have not been banned yet. No idea if they will be.

I figured the GW2 community might be interested in this though.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/jq3d29/drama_in_the_trading_community/

As mentioned by me and others earlier, the scarcity for such low drop items can be manipulated past the 10k trading post limit IF the perception of scarcity is upheld and the out of game trade profit without tax is big enough to sustain buying the item at 10k.

One can now argue either way:

• the drop rate scarcity for the Chak Infusion is not so low as to actually make the infusion so rare that prices above 10k are warranted (hard to say since the item is heavily managed).
• the scarcity is what it is and the developers should react to it on the one hand potentially removing the ability to easily manipulate the item (I explained where the majority profit and gain comes in this 1 case) or on the other hand potentially make the situation worse.

@"Tukaram.8256" said:The price cap was probably just chosen as a ridiculously high cap, because something had to be put in for coding. If the rarity of items is such that the price is now normal - then it is time to increase the drop rates, not the price cap.

This cap literally only affects 1 (EDIT: 2 items, Chak Infusion and Confetti Infusion) item and even that items scarcity is knowingly being manipulated. There is absolutely no reason to remove the cap for the 0.0000001% of players who got lucky and want to maximize their gain in a manipulated system while at the same time opening the flood gates to potential other issues.

There absolutely is a reason and this situation is an example for why they could do it: so people can't so easly lock the supply just because they've stacked buy bids for the max amount the tp lets them. The fact that a small % of people can be affected is irrelevant, what's more relevant is that some people actually can and are affected (including newer, unaware players that just happened to get lucky and then feel bad because they "got scammed by tp limits"). I don't get the logic behind "I can't afford it, so it shouldn't be even considered" -how is this even a legitimate argument?

You misunderstand, I absolutely can afford it. This is not about me not being able to afford it, or me not wanting it. I'm saying I weigh the risk of increasing the market cap versus the net benefit it might bring, and again a net benefit this "might" bring because no one can guarantee that this type of manipulation with scarce enough items would not continue with an increased cap, making increasing the TP cap ineffective.

My argument remains:The increase of the TP cap brings with it other risks in form of inflation or other aspects which we can only approximate. In order to "fix" an issue with 1 or 2 items which are heavily manipulated. Items which 99.9999% of the player base have no interaction with, where as the entire TP economy affects every single player nearly daily.

I personally am not in favor of rolling the dice on this and I have not seen any strong arguments so far why this needs to be done. For 99.99999% of all goods and players, the TP cap is of absolutely no consequence. I don't understand why the 1 or 2 exceptions should be the baseline for change, especially when the issue here could be solved via other means, one of which is changing the drop rate as you mention further down.

@Sobx.1758 said:There miiiiiight be an argument for raising the drop rate for it (seems "a bit" late for that imo), but tbh I don't see anything wrong about having at least some ultimately rare items -even moreso when they're purely cosmetic.

I don't mind the increase of the drop rate (then again I stand not to lose or win anything here), but given we don't know where this item would be at with an increased drop rate, it's hard to say what a correct drop rate is. Obviously the developers have nothing against making multiple thousand gold worth infusions via craft-able means, which in turn affect the average player far more than these super rare 1 time drops.

[Sobx.1758]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:Might be relevant to this discussion:

Drama in the trading community.

I don't know all the details, but since nobody else has made a post I figured I would.

Today there has been some drama in the trading community, one of the richest players in the game with an estimated net worth of 10m+ gold was accused of RMTing and as such he was blacklisted by several trading communities. Together with his trading guild friends.

As a result, he sold at least 30-50 Chak Infusions directly to buy orders for 10 000 gold each. He has been hoarding and gatekeeping these infusions for years to inflate the value of them. As well as multiple confetti infusions.

Then he put up a buy order for over 200 000 Mystic Coins in an attempt to screw with the entire GW2 market.

There may be other things involved as well, I don't know the details. But in short, one of the richest players in this game is having a bit of a meltdown. Bad news for some of the other very rich players, good news for most others as Chak Infusions can finally be bought. There has been a line of around 100 buy orders at all times for years on these, and it has finally been broken. So we're back to a situation where the person with the highest buy order gets the price, instead of "The person with the oldest 10000g buy order gets to be next in line.".

The players have not been banned yet. No idea if they will be.

I figured the GW2 community might be interested in this though.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/jq3d29/drama_in_the_trading_community/

As mentioned by me and others earlier, the scarcity for such low drop items can be manipulated past the 10k trading post limit IF the perception of scarcity is upheld and the out of game trade profit without tax is big enough to sustain buying the item at 10k.

One can now argue either way:

• the drop rate scarcity for the Chak Infusion is not so low as to actually make the infusion so rare that prices above 10k are warranted (hard to say since the item is heavily managed).
• the scarcity is what it is and the developers should react to it on the one hand potentially removing the ability to easily manipulate the item (I explained where the majority profit and gain comes in this 1 case) or on the other hand potentially make the situation worse.

@"Tukaram.8256" said:The price cap was probably just chosen as a ridiculously high cap, because something had to be put in for coding. If the rarity of items is such that the price is now normal - then it is time to increase the drop rates, not the price cap.

This cap literally only affects 1 (EDIT: 2 items, Chak Infusion and Confetti Infusion) item and even that items scarcity is knowingly being manipulated. There is absolutely no reason to remove the cap for the 0.0000001% of players who got lucky and want to maximize their gain in a manipulated system while at the same time opening the flood gates to potential other issues.

There absolutely is a reason and this situation is an example for why they could do it: so people can't so easly lock the supply just because they've stacked buy bids for the max amount the tp lets them. The fact that a small % of people can be affected is irrelevant, what's more relevant is that some people actually can and are affected (including newer, unaware players that just happened to get lucky and then feel bad because they "got scammed by tp limits"). I don't get the logic behind "I can't afford it, so it shouldn't be even considered" -how is this even a legitimate argument?

You misunderstand, I absolutely can afford it. This is not about me not being able to afford it, or me not wanting it. I'm saying I weigh the risk of increasing the market cap versus the net benefit it might bring, and again a net benefit this "might" bring because no one can guarantee that this type of manipulation with scarce enough items would not continue with an increased cap, making increasing the TP cap ineffective.

My argument remains:The increase of the TP cap brings with it other risks in form of inflation or other aspects which we can only approximate. In order to "fix" an issue with 1 or 2 items which are heavily manipulated. Items which 99.9999% of the player base have no interaction with, where as the entire TP economy affects every single player nearly daily.

"Inflation" based on 2 items having their buy bets above 10k gold? Nope.And my point remains: worst case scenario, people that "got lucky" but don't go around looking for outside traders to safely sell/buy those singular items won't get "scammed" by tp limitations. And that change doesn't affect "the entire tp economy that affects every single player nearly daily".

I personally am not in favor of rolling the dice on this and I have not seen any strong arguments so far why this needs to be done.

Well, then re-read the thread I guess, not much else to say here, but repeating "inflation" doesn't exactly work as an answer here as I can't even see it being correctly used here.

For 99.99999% of all goods and players, the TP cap is of absolutely no consequence. I don't understand why the 1 or 2 exceptions should be the baseline for change, especially when the issue here could be solved via other means, one of which is changing the drop rate as you mention further down.

As I wrote before, the low % of players/items being affected isn't an argument, not sure why you keep repeating that.

@Sobx.1758 said:There miiiiiight be an argument for raising the drop rate for it (seems "a bit" late for that imo), but tbh I don't see anything wrong about having at least some ultimately rare items -even moreso when they're purely cosmetic.

I don't mind the increase of the drop rate (then again I stand not to lose or win anything here), but given we don't know where this item would be at with an increased drop rate, it's hard to say what a correct drop rate is. Obviously the developers have nothing against making multiple thousand gold worth infusions via craft-able means, which in turn affect the average player far more than these super rare 1 time drops.

I honestly don't see how that's an answer to what I wrote (other then "you don't mind the increse of the drop rate", which was absolutely clear given that you're one of the people that keep proposing that in the first place)? Can you explain? (talking about the last sentence, "craftable infusions that are worth multiple thousand gold", but aren't at the tp cap -how is this relevant and how does this change anything here?)

[Cyninja.2954]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:Might be relevant to this discussion:

Drama in the trading community.

I don't know all the details, but since nobody else has made a post I figured I would.

Today there has been some drama in the trading community, one of the richest players in the game with an estimated net worth of 10m+ gold was accused of RMTing and as such he was blacklisted by several trading communities. Together with his trading guild friends.

As a result, he sold at least 30-50 Chak Infusions directly to buy orders for 10 000 gold each. He has been hoarding and gatekeeping these infusions for years to inflate the value of them. As well as multiple confetti infusions.

Then he put up a buy order for over 200 000 Mystic Coins in an attempt to screw with the entire GW2 market.

There may be other things involved as well, I don't know the details. But in short, one of the richest players in this game is having a bit of a meltdown. Bad news for some of the other very rich players, good news for most others as Chak Infusions can finally be bought. There has been a line of around 100 buy orders at all times for years on these, and it has finally been broken. So we're back to a situation where the person with the highest buy order gets the price, instead of "The person with the oldest 10000g buy order gets to be next in line.".

The players have not been banned yet. No idea if they will be.

I figured the GW2 community might be interested in this though.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/jq3d29/drama_in_the_trading_community/

As mentioned by me and others earlier, the scarcity for such low drop items can be manipulated past the 10k trading post limit IF the perception of scarcity is upheld and the out of game trade profit without tax is big enough to sustain buying the item at 10k.

One can now argue either way:

• the drop rate scarcity for the Chak Infusion is not so low as to actually make the infusion so rare that prices above 10k are warranted (hard to say since the item is heavily managed).
• the scarcity is what it is and the developers should react to it on the one hand potentially removing the ability to easily manipulate the item (I explained where the majority profit and gain comes in this 1 case) or on the other hand potentially make the situation worse.

@"Tukaram.8256" said:The price cap was probably just chosen as a ridiculously high cap, because something had to be put in for coding. If the rarity of items is such that the price is now normal - then it is time to increase the drop rates, not the price cap.

This cap literally only affects 1 (EDIT: 2 items, Chak Infusion and Confetti Infusion) item and even that items scarcity is knowingly being manipulated. There is absolutely no reason to remove the cap for the 0.0000001% of players who got lucky and want to maximize their gain in a manipulated system while at the same time opening the flood gates to potential other issues.

There absolutely is a reason and this situation is an example for why they could do it: so people can't so easly lock the supply just because they've stacked buy bids for the max amount the tp lets them. The fact that a small % of people can be affected is irrelevant, what's more relevant is that some people actually can and are affected (including newer, unaware players that just happened to get lucky and then feel bad because they "got scammed by tp limits"). I don't get the logic behind "I can't afford it, so it shouldn't be even considered" -how is this even a legitimate argument?

You misunderstand, I absolutely can afford it. This is not about me not being able to afford it, or me not wanting it. I'm saying I weigh the risk of increasing the market cap versus the net benefit it might bring, and again a net benefit this "might" bring because no one can guarantee that this type of manipulation with scarce enough items would not continue with an increased cap, making increasing the TP cap ineffective.

My argument remains:The increase of the TP cap brings with it other risks in form of inflation or other aspects which we can only approximate. In order to "fix" an issue with 1 or 2 items which are heavily manipulated. Items which 99.9999% of the player base have no interaction with, where as the entire TP economy affects every single player nearly daily.

"Inflation" based on 2 items having their buy bets above 10k gold? Nope.And my point remains: worst case scenario, people that "got lucky" but don't go around looking for outside traders to safely sell/buy those singular items won't get "scammed" by tp limitations. And that change doesn't affect "the entire tp economy that affects every single player nearly daily".

No, inflation based on the removal of a cap which is in place and prevents gold to item changes to some extent. This is not about the 2 items.

If you can't look past the obvious affects the cap has, both positive and negative, that is on you.

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:I personally am not in favor of rolling the dice on this and I have not seen any strong arguments so far why this needs to be done.

Well, then re-read the thread I guess, not much else to say here, but repeating "inflation" doesn't exactly work as an answer here as I can't even see it being correctly used here.

Inflation works just as much as the argument that removing the cap might not have an effect on this issue. You simply do not want to go there because it weakens your argument.

An argument btw which can be summarized as: we have to deal with a non-issue, in an otherwise perfectly working system, because you dislike the manipulation of 2 items, with a solution which might not even address the issue.

A player with 1 million gold or more does not care if an item is worth 20k or 40k outside of game. On the contrary, at 40k it's an even bigger asset and gold dump. Obviously lower value assets would have to take its previous place, say infusions which are currently valued far lower in the couple of thousands, and which are rare enough to be manipulated too.

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:For 99.99999% of all goods and players, the TP cap is of absolutely no consequence. I don't understand why the 1 or 2 exceptions should be the baseline for change, especially when the issue here could be solved via other means, one of which is changing the drop rate as you mention further down.

As I wrote before, the low % of players/items being affected isn't an argument, not sure why you keep repeating that.

It does IF there is even remote risk that the equilibrium of the market is disturbed in a negative way for a majority of players. Removing the TP cap might have no effect at all, or it might lead to continuous inflation over months and years with not lid on top or to other unforeseen effects. There certainly is enough gold in game by now. The fact this gold has a limited buying power per item is part of this function and assured via the TP maximum.

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:There miiiiiight be an argument for raising the drop rate for it (seems "a bit" late for that imo), but tbh I don't see anything wrong about having at least some ultimately rare items -even moreso when they're purely cosmetic.

I don't mind the increase of the drop rate (then again I stand not to lose or win anything here), but given we don't know where this item would be at with an increased drop rate, it's hard to say what a correct drop rate is. Obviously the developers have nothing against making multiple thousand gold worth infusions via craft-able means, which in turn affect the average player far more than these super rare 1 time drops.

I honestly don't see how that's an answer to what I wrote (other then "you don't mind the increse of the drop rate", which was absolutely clear given that you're one of the people that keep proposing that in the first place)? Can you explain? (talking about the last sentence, "craftable infusions that are worth multiple thousand gold", but aren't at the tp cap -how is this relevant and how does this change anything here?)

I have not 1nce proposed an increase to the drop rate in this entire thread so far. I brought it up, making specific mention how I am or am not affected, because you mentioned it. I mentioned it in this context because it is a possible solution to one type of problem. I would ask you to refrain of making made up statements as my position has always been I am not against very rare items. I simply oppose widespread game adjustments on their basis which you are essentially proposing.

The last infusion added: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Frost_Legion_Infusionhad both positive and negative effects on the average player. It is obvious the developers are not shying away from adding infusions of such value via these means. It's also a perfect example of how the average player can be affected via such items, be it short term disturbances in either direction or longer term affects.

[Sobx.1758]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:Might be relevant to this discussion:

Drama in the trading community.

I don't know all the details, but since nobody else has made a post I figured I would.

Today there has been some drama in the trading community, one of the richest players in the game with an estimated net worth of 10m+ gold was accused of RMTing and as such he was blacklisted by several trading communities. Together with his trading guild friends.

As a result, he sold at least 30-50 Chak Infusions directly to buy orders for 10 000 gold each. He has been hoarding and gatekeeping these infusions for years to inflate the value of them. As well as multiple confetti infusions.

Then he put up a buy order for over 200 000 Mystic Coins in an attempt to screw with the entire GW2 market.

There may be other things involved as well, I don't know the details. But in short, one of the richest players in this game is having a bit of a meltdown. Bad news for some of the other very rich players, good news for most others as Chak Infusions can finally be bought. There has been a line of around 100 buy orders at all times for years on these, and it has finally been broken. So we're back to a situation where the person with the highest buy order gets the price, instead of "The person with the oldest 10000g buy order gets to be next in line.".

The players have not been banned yet. No idea if they will be.

I figured the GW2 community might be interested in this though.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/jq3d29/drama_in_the_trading_community/

As mentioned by me and others earlier, the scarcity for such low drop items can be manipulated past the 10k trading post limit IF the perception of scarcity is upheld and the out of game trade profit without tax is big enough to sustain buying the item at 10k.

One can now argue either way:

• the drop rate scarcity for the Chak Infusion is not so low as to actually make the infusion so rare that prices above 10k are warranted (hard to say since the item is heavily managed).
• the scarcity is what it is and the developers should react to it on the one hand potentially removing the ability to easily manipulate the item (I explained where the majority profit and gain comes in this 1 case) or on the other hand potentially make the situation worse.

@"Tukaram.8256" said:The price cap was probably just chosen as a ridiculously high cap, because something had to be put in for coding. If the rarity of items is such that the price is now normal - then it is time to increase the drop rates, not the price cap.

This cap literally only affects 1 (EDIT: 2 items, Chak Infusion and Confetti Infusion) item and even that items scarcity is knowingly being manipulated. There is absolutely no reason to remove the cap for the 0.0000001% of players who got lucky and want to maximize their gain in a manipulated system while at the same time opening the flood gates to potential other issues.

There absolutely is a reason and this situation is an example for why they could do it: so people can't so easly lock the supply just because they've stacked buy bids for the max amount the tp lets them. The fact that a small % of people can be affected is irrelevant, what's more relevant is that some people actually can and are affected (including newer, unaware players that just happened to get lucky and then feel bad because they "got scammed by tp limits"). I don't get the logic behind "I can't afford it, so it shouldn't be even considered" -how is this even a legitimate argument?

You misunderstand, I absolutely can afford it. This is not about me not being able to afford it, or me not wanting it. I'm saying I weigh the risk of increasing the market cap versus the net benefit it might bring, and again a net benefit this "might" bring because no one can guarantee that this type of manipulation with scarce enough items would not continue with an increased cap, making increasing the TP cap ineffective.

My argument remains:The increase of the TP cap brings with it other risks in form of inflation or other aspects which we can only approximate. In order to "fix" an issue with 1 or 2 items which are heavily manipulated. Items which 99.9999% of the player base have no interaction with, where as the entire TP economy affects every single player nearly daily.

"Inflation" based on 2 items having their buy bets above 10k gold? Nope.And my point remains: worst case scenario, people that "got lucky" but don't go around looking for outside traders to safely sell/buy those singular items won't get "scammed" by tp limitations. And that change doesn't affect "the entire tp economy that affects every single player nearly daily".

No, inflation based on the removal of a cap which is in place and prevents gold to item changes to some extent. This is not about the 2 items.

If you can't look past the obvious affects the cap has, both positive and negative, that is on you.

Nothing meaningful is anywhere near the cap, removing the cap doesn't magically cause inflation and price increase of everything else in the game, that's not how it works at all. Randomly repeating "inflation" doesn't mean anything.Again, that's not how it works, you might as well keep repeating any other random word and then tell me "if you don't know why then it's on you". You're not even describing anything hypothetically realistic here, you're just repeating "inflation" in a situation where it has no relevance, so I'm not sure that's somehow "on me".

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:I personally am not in favor of rolling the dice on this and I have not seen any strong arguments so far why this needs to be done.

Well, then re-read the thread I guess, not much else to say here, but repeating "inflation" doesn't exactly work as an answer here as I can't even see it being correctly used here.

Inflation works just as much as the argument that removing the cap might not have an effect on this issue. You simply do not want to go there because it weakens your argument.

No, it doesn't, because your inflation has no relevance in this case at all, raising or removing the cap doesn't cause inflation. And I ABSOLUTELY want to go there (not sure why you try to suggest otherwise, seems pretty baseless to me), I'm not trying to avoid anything you're writing. But then you need to stop repeating "inflation" when it doesn't apply and expand on the point you apparently think you have, because I simply don't see it.

An argument btw which can be summarized as: we have to deal with a non-issue, in an otherwise perfectly working system, because you dislike the manipulation of 2 items, with a solution which might not even address the issue.

It's not a "non-issue" just because it affects (and it absolutely does affect) a small % of the community. And it does address the issue I've wrote about in last post/s.

A player with 1 million gold or more does not care if an item is worth 20k or 40k outside of game. On the contrary, at 40k it's an even bigger asset and gold dump.

If he blows way more gold on it and HAS TO DO IT THROUGH TP, then TP takes some of the gold out of the system by taxing them and it does more against the "inflation" you keep repeating about than the current, lower limit. You understand that, right?

Obviously lower value assets would have to take its previous place, say infusions which are currently valued far lower in the couple of thousands, and which are rare enough to be manipulated too.

Uh, no. Those infusions are valued by the players lower because of the accessibility, so no, they wouldn't magically "take x item's place" for some made up by you reason. Because that's what it is, you're making it up and what you just described is based on nothing. If they're rare enough to be manipulated too, they could be easly manipulated up to the tp limit RIGHT NOW, but they're not.

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:For 99.99999% of all goods and players, the TP cap is of absolutely no consequence. I don't understand why the 1 or 2 exceptions should be the baseline for change, especially when the issue here could be solved via other means, one of which is changing the drop rate as you mention further down.

As I wrote before, the low % of players/items being affected isn't an argument, not sure why you keep repeating that.

It does IF there is even remote risk that the equilibrium of the market is disturbed in a negative way for a majority of players. Removing the TP cap might have no effect at all, or it might lead to continuous inflation over months and years with not lid on top or to other unforeseen effects. There certainly is enough gold in game by now. The fact this gold has a limited buying power per item is part of this function and assured via the TP maximum.

If there is, then maybe, but there isn't because that's not what "inflation" is and that's not how it works, even moreso when you're talking about items with no relation between each other. Again, raising tp limit would AT THE VERY LEAST force those buyers to get more gold out of the system by forcing them to compete ON TP instead of outside trades, which has the opposite effect on the economy (if any at all) than what you're suggesting.

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:There miiiiiight be an argument for raising the drop rate for it (seems "a bit" late for that imo), but tbh I don't see anything wrong about having at least some ultimately rare items -even moreso when they're purely cosmetic.

I don't mind the increase of the drop rate (then again I stand not to lose or win anything here), but given we don't know where this item would be at with an increased drop rate, it's hard to say what a correct drop rate is. Obviously the developers have nothing against making multiple thousand gold worth infusions via craft-able means, which in turn affect the average player far more than these super rare 1 time drops.

I honestly don't see how that's an answer to what I wrote (other then "you don't mind the increse of the drop rate", which was absolutely clear given that you're one of the people that keep proposing that in the first place)? Can you explain? (talking about the last sentence, "craftable infusions that are worth multiple thousand gold", but aren't at the tp cap -how is this relevant and how does this change anything here?)

I have not 1nce proposed an increase to the drop rate in this entire thread so far. I brought it up, making specific mention how I am or am not affected, because you mentioned it.

Welp, might not have been you then -if that's not what you wrote/meant in this thread then I didn't intend to put words in your mouth.

as my position has always been I am not against very rare items.

Good.

I simply oppose widespread game adjustments on their basis which you are essentially proposing.

And I still don't understand why, seeing how "it only affects small % of the playerbase" isn't a valid argument against it and repeating "inflation" in a situation where it's irrelevant also doesn't make much sense to me.

The last infusion added: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Frost_Legion_Infusionhad both positive and negative effects on the average player. It is obvious the developers are not shying away from adding infusions of such value via these means. It's also a perfect example of how the average player can be affected via such items, be it short term disturbances in either direction or longer term affects.

But we're not discussing "latest infusions added", we're discussing the ones that are already at/beyond the tp cap, the others aren't affected by the cap raise at all, if someone planned to manipulate the economy using different items, they'd already be doing it.