Why Core Engi needs to be addressed properly

[Kuma.1503]

First, we need to stop nerfing core Engi just to tone down Holo.

Kits and toolbelts are the class mechanic of Engineer. They are the justification for why they're given such underpowered weapons (outside of sword) and no weapon swap.For this reason, nerfing their best kits ends up being a substantial nerf to core. It was already struggling before repeated nerfs to grenades, explosives, elixirs, and alchemy sustain.

"But why should we avoid nerfing core, when core mechanics are the problem? It doesn't matter if the entire class is weak if one part is broken it should be nerfed"

Because the core mechanics are not the problem. It's core mechanics in addition to what Holo provides that results in problems.

Grenades on their own? Good, but not broken

Grenades in addition to Holo's free might stacking - StrongGrenades in addition to Holo's free might stacking and lazer's edge - very strongGreandes in addition to Holo's free might stacking, lazer's edge, and easy vuln application w/ corona burst - broken

The issue here was holo, so the nerfs should have targeted Holo.

"What does it matter? Core sucked anyway, and the nerfs brought down a broken build"?

Because ripping holes in the foundation of the class results in larger balance issues that will need to be addressed later. Core is what Elite specs need to be built upon. If the core class in in shambles with huge gaping holes that need to be filled in just for a new elite to function, what course of action will Anet need to take in order to make their new Elite function, let alone draw people in?

Anet will either have to:

1. Fix the issues with core. This means addressing areas that have been criminally underperforming or not functioning for years.

or

2. Overload the Elite spec with tons of broken mechanics just to make this shambling mess of a class work.

In other, words, pre-nerf Holo all over again.

For the sake of not creating more balance problems in the future, we need to actually address core issues plaguing Engineer and make its foundation stable. Tone down Holo some more if you need to. Naturally, if the fixes to core result in broken Elites, we can tweak the Elites.

[Dantheman.3589]

What makes you think core engi is not good? Maybe it’s just by nature that elite specs are a huge upgrade considering the mechanics of the class,

[Kuma.1503]

@Dantheman.3589 said:What makes you think core engi is not good? Maybe it’s just by nature that elite specs are a huge upgrade considering the mechanics of the class,

[unfolds list]

• Worst weapons in the game. (Still no MH power weapon to pair with shield)
• An entire trait line that does almost nothing for core, but is phenominal on Holo.
• Turrets overnerfed since forever. They're barely useful outside of toolbelt skills and detonate fodder even if running inventions.
• Kits constantly being nerfed to bring down Elites
• Bugs that go unaddressed for years (Anet forgets gadgeteer exists when adjusting things every time)
• It gets very little for free. Poor escape potentil without rocket boots, Poor damage output without Grenades (nerfed), Lacks defense/utility wthout Elixir Gun. No real boon uptime without Elixirs. Results in you struggling to fit in everything you need to make a functioning build. Meanwhile Holo gets Damage, sustain, boons, and mobility for free, which significantly frees up your build space.
• When was the last time you saw someone playing core engi while actively trying to climb?

[UNOwen.7132]

Sadly if they decided to make Grenades useless just to hit Holo, I think you can forget about Core Engineer ever being playable again. Its a shame, it was my favourite build, but its clear they have no intention of fixing it. I just kinda wish there was another MMO with good PvP that had an Engineer-style class.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

if something is broken, it should be nerfed period. that said, if you lower the damage you gotta lower the cd and high cd higher damage/ mechanics buff. they're not giving anything back which is why everyone is mad.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:if something is broken, it should be nerfed period. that said, if you lower the damage you gotta lower the cd and high cd higher damage/ mechanics buff. they're not giving anything back which is why everyone is mad.

But thats the thing. Grenade Kit wasnt broken. Holo was. They didnt nerf Holo. They nerfed Grenade Kit.

[bethekey.8314]

What a joke of a patch, lmao. Core engi really needs a mechanic where certain abilities / traits scale on # of kits.

[Dantheman.3589]

@Kuma.1503 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:What makes you think core engi is not good? Maybe it’s just by nature that elite specs are a huge upgrade considering the mechanics of the class,

[unfolds list]

• Worst weapons in the game. (Still no MH power weapon to pair with shield)
• An entire trait line that does almost nothing for core, but is
  phenominal
  on Holo.
• Turrets overnerfed since forever. They're barely useful outside of toolbelt skills and detonate fodder even if running inventions.
• Kits constantly being nerfed to bring down Elites
• Bugs that go unaddressed for years (Anet forgets gadgeteer exists when adjusting things every time)
• It gets very little for free. Poor escape potentil without rocket boots, Poor damage output without Grenades (nerfed), Lacks defense/utility wthout Elixir Gun. No real boon uptime without Elixirs. Results in you struggling to fit in everything you need to make a functioning build. Meanwhile Holo gets Damage, sustain, boons, and mobility for free, which
  significantly
  frees up your build space.
• When was the last time you saw someone playing core engi while actively trying to climb?

Who cares if you don’t have something good enough with shield and calling your weapons the worst is also something ppl don’t care about cuz it’s 1.) not true 2.) backwards since some elite specs have weapons that are worse than all core engi ones.Your second complaint- like I said your complaining that the elite spec is an upgrade which is a good thing?Turrets bad? Who cares use something else- every profession has something bad rn...Kits nerfed... maybe they were strong, you have actually zero real proof it’s for elite specs.Bugs, we have lots of those on every class so...Lacks mobility, damage or sustain compared to an elite spec- every profession can add sustain, mobility or damage...Last complaint- I see core engi every now and then and I don’t complain seeing one in plat2ish rank. Ppl who try to climb can climb on anything and u see stuff that isn’t meta every now and then but then again meta is just what’s popular.Conclusion: over reaction. Core engi is w.e. If you haven’t notice they nerf core stuff all the time to balance lots of stuff yet you don’t see me making a thread about my bad core X build

[Quadox.7834]

i mean in general i agree but there were some broken things on core engi, 9 poison on nades as well as explosive entrance

[Kuma.1503]

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:What makes you think core engi is not good? Maybe it’s just by nature that elite specs are a huge upgrade considering the mechanics of the class,

[unfolds list]

• Worst weapons in the game. (Still no MH power weapon to pair with shield)
• An entire trait line that does almost nothing for core, but is
  phenominal
  on Holo.
• Turrets overnerfed since forever. They're barely useful outside of toolbelt skills and detonate fodder even if running inventions.
• Kits constantly being nerfed to bring down Elites
• Bugs that go unaddressed for years (Anet forgets gadgeteer exists when adjusting things every time)
• It gets very little for free. Poor escape potentil without rocket boots, Poor damage output without Grenades (nerfed), Lacks defense/utility wthout Elixir Gun. No real boon uptime without Elixirs. Results in you struggling to fit in everything you need to make a functioning build. Meanwhile Holo gets Damage, sustain, boons, and mobility for free, which
  significantly
  frees up your build space.
• When was the last time you saw someone playing core engi while actively trying to climb?

Who cares?

Basically sums up your entire post. If you're not going to engage in discussion, why are you here?

@Quadox.7834 said:i mean in general i agree but there were some broken things on core engi, 9 poison on nades as well as explosive entrance

Neither is remotely broken on core because it doesn't have the tools to make use of these mechanics. 9 poison on grenades is absolutely nuts when paired with 25 might from photon forge. You're recieving 750 free condition damage, which results in that 9 poison hitting hard even on a power build.

On core power, that 9 poison basically results in a bit less healing, but otherwise it's negligable.

Explosive Entrance on core actually helps one of Core engi's issues. It doesn't have good damage without running nades. It helped shore up that weakness a little bit. On Holo which already hit hard to begin with it was broken.

In both cases the issue is Holo. It's got so much power baked in that anything even remotely useful on core quickly becomes overpowered. We need to rebalnce the power between Holo and core so the Devs can actually create useful traits without Holo abusing them to terrorize the meta.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:What makes you think core engi is not good? Maybe it’s just by nature that elite specs are a huge upgrade considering the mechanics of the class,

[unfolds list]

• Worst weapons in the game. (Still no MH power weapon to pair with shield)
• An entire trait line that does almost nothing for core, but is
  phenominal
  on Holo.
• Turrets overnerfed since forever. They're barely useful outside of toolbelt skills and detonate fodder even if running inventions.
• Kits constantly being nerfed to bring down Elites
• Bugs that go unaddressed for years (Anet forgets gadgeteer exists when adjusting things every time)
• It gets very little for free. Poor escape potentil without rocket boots, Poor damage output without Grenades (nerfed), Lacks defense/utility wthout Elixir Gun. No real boon uptime without Elixirs. Results in you struggling to fit in everything you need to make a functioning build. Meanwhile Holo gets Damage, sustain, boons, and mobility for free, which
  significantly
  frees up your build space.
• When was the last time you saw someone playing core engi while actively trying to climb?

Who cares if you don’t have something good enough with shield and calling your weapons the worst is also something ppl don’t care about cuz it’s 1.) not true 2.) backwards since some elite specs have weapons that are worse than all core engi ones.Your second complaint- like I said your complaining that the elite spec is an upgrade which is a good thing?Turrets bad? Who cares use something else- every profession has something bad rn...Kits nerfed... maybe they were strong, you have actually zero real proof it’s for elite specs.Bugs, we have lots of those on every class so...Lacks mobility, damage or sustain compared to an elite spec- every profession can add sustain, mobility or damage...Last complaint- I see core engi every now and then and I don’t complain seeing one in plat2ish rank. Ppl who try to climb can climb on anything and u see stuff that isn’t meta every now and then but then again meta is just what’s popular.Conclusion: over reaction. Core engi is w.e. If you haven’t notice they nerf core stuff all the time to balance lots of stuff yet you don’t see me making a thread about my bad core X build

Conclusion of this post: Written by a 10 year old.

[Shaogin.2679]

It is actually quite hysterical that anyone with a shred of intelligence would consider this a proper way to approach balance. They have just been hammering Core Engineer into the ground patch after patch to try and fix Holosmith. It's like some crazy knee jerk reaction from someone who doesn't know how to do their job. Like they just picked a random guy in the office and told him to fix it or he's fired and he just panicked. You know what would be interesting, a behind the scenes tv show of what goes on at Anet, done in the style of The Office.

[Quadox.7834]

@Kuma.1503 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:What makes you think core engi is not good? Maybe it’s just by nature that elite specs are a huge upgrade considering the mechanics of the class,

[unfolds list]

• Worst weapons in the game. (Still no MH power weapon to pair with shield)
• An entire trait line that does almost nothing for core, but is
  phenominal
  on Holo.
• Turrets overnerfed since forever. They're barely useful outside of toolbelt skills and detonate fodder even if running inventions.
• Kits constantly being nerfed to bring down Elites
• Bugs that go unaddressed for years (Anet forgets gadgeteer exists when adjusting things every time)
• It gets very little for free. Poor escape potentil without rocket boots, Poor damage output without Grenades (nerfed), Lacks defense/utility wthout Elixir Gun. No real boon uptime without Elixirs. Results in you struggling to fit in everything you need to make a functioning build. Meanwhile Holo gets Damage, sustain, boons, and mobility for free, which
  significantly
  frees up your build space.
• When was the last time you saw someone playing core engi while actively trying to climb?

Who cares?

Basically sums up your entire post. If you're not going to engage in discussion, why are you here?

@"Quadox.7834" said:i mean in general i agree but there were some broken things on core engi, 9 poison on nades as well as explosive entrance

Neither is remotely broken on core because it doesn't have the tools to make use of these mechanics.True, core engi doesnt have a lot of tools. Which is not a problem you solve with "ehh lets just give a fkton of damage on every dodge"9 poison on grenades is absolutely nuts when paired with 25 might from photon forge. You're recieving 750 free condition damage, which results in that 9 poison hitting hard even on a power build.

On core power, that 9 poison basically results in a bit less healing, but otherwise it's negligable.Poison is 2nd highest dmg after burn and 9 stacks of it was overtuned baseline

Explosive Entrance on core actually helps one of Core engi's issues. It doesn't have good damage without running nades. It helped shore up that weakness a little bit. On Holo which already hit hard to begin with it was broken.

In both cases the issue is Holo. It's got so much power baked in that anything even remotely useful on core quickly becomes overpowered. We need to rebalnce the power between Holo and core so the Devs can actually create useful traits without Holo abusing them to terrorize the meta.

Singlular things can be broken without the whole being broken, for ex confounding suggestions was broken even though power mes wasnt meta and distortion on signet is dumb even though insp mes is not currently meta

[Yasai.3549]

The strength of current builds indeed stem from Core Engi, but Core Engi has alot of problems which make them unable to pull out that potential.It's due to Especs Scrapper and Holo that prop up Core Engi's weaker aspects that allows them to perform better.

The problem here is indeed Core Engi, but not because they are too strong, but they are too weak to pull out that strength.

Solution here is to slap down the parts of Core Engi which is too strong, because once even Core Engi is able to reliably perform with these Strengths, they are going to be just as troublesome as Scrapper and Holo.AT THE SAME TIME, they have to prop up what Core Engi is lacking.

Key here is doing both of these in the same patch, which pretty much spells Core Engi rework.

TLDR : They should target down the parts from Core which is too strong, which is understandable, but they also need to buff Core Engi in parts they are lacking, because without doing so, Core Engi will just fall further and further into disuse.

[Dantheman.3589]

@Kuma.1503 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:What makes you think core engi is not good? Maybe it’s just by nature that elite specs are a huge upgrade considering the mechanics of the class,

[unfolds list]

• Worst weapons in the game. (Still no MH power weapon to pair with shield)
• An entire trait line that does almost nothing for core, but is
  phenominal
  on Holo.
• Turrets overnerfed since forever. They're barely useful outside of toolbelt skills and detonate fodder even if running inventions.
• Kits constantly being nerfed to bring down Elites
• Bugs that go unaddressed for years (Anet forgets gadgeteer exists when adjusting things every time)
• It gets very little for free. Poor escape potentil without rocket boots, Poor damage output without Grenades (nerfed), Lacks defense/utility wthout Elixir Gun. No real boon uptime without Elixirs. Results in you struggling to fit in everything you need to make a functioning build. Meanwhile Holo gets Damage, sustain, boons, and mobility for free, which
  significantly
  frees up your build space.
• When was the last time you saw someone playing core engi while actively trying to climb?

Who cares?

Basically sums up your entire post. If you're not going to engage in discussion, why are you here?

@Quadox.7834 said:i mean in general i agree but there were some broken things on core engi, 9 poison on nades as well as explosive entrance

Neither is remotely broken on core because it doesn't have the tools to make use of these mechanics. 9 poison on grenades is absolutely nuts when paired with 25 might from photon forge. You're recieving 750 free condition damage, which results in that 9 poison hitting hard even on a power build.

On core power, that 9 poison basically results in a bit less healing, but otherwise it's negligable.

Explosive Entrance on core actually helps one of Core engi's issues. It doesn't have good damage without running nades. It helped shore up that weakness a little bit. On Holo which already hit hard to begin with it was broken.

In both cases the issue is Holo. It's got so much power baked in that anything even remotely useful on core quickly becomes overpowered. We need to rebalnce the power between Holo and core so the Devs can actually create useful traits without Holo abusing them to terrorize the meta.

What discussion is there even. Are u fixing a problem? No. Are you addressing issues as a whole? No. Are you trying to innovate new good builds to play as an engi main? No- why don’t u take a hint, like I’m always innovating new builds to play some good, some bad, some that become meta- just to make sure I can stay somewhat relevant in ranked and ats. I’ve also seen some great engi mains that always do the same and use many of the things you call “useless” and “worst in game” and they blow most ppl away with their performance. I don’t see why u cannot try too..

[Kuma.1503]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:What makes you think core engi is not good? Maybe it’s just by nature that elite specs are a huge upgrade considering the mechanics of the class,

[unfolds list]

• Worst weapons in the game. (Still no MH power weapon to pair with shield)
• An entire trait line that does almost nothing for core, but is
  phenominal
  on Holo.
• Turrets overnerfed since forever. They're barely useful outside of toolbelt skills and detonate fodder even if running inventions.
• Kits constantly being nerfed to bring down Elites
• Bugs that go unaddressed for years (Anet forgets gadgeteer exists when adjusting things every time)
• It gets very little for free. Poor escape potentil without rocket boots, Poor damage output without Grenades (nerfed), Lacks defense/utility wthout Elixir Gun. No real boon uptime without Elixirs. Results in you struggling to fit in everything you need to make a functioning build. Meanwhile Holo gets Damage, sustain, boons, and mobility for free, which
  significantly
  frees up your build space.
• When was the last time you saw someone playing core engi while actively trying to climb?

Who cares?

Basically sums up your entire post. If you're not going to engage in discussion, why are you here?

@Quadox.7834 said:i mean in general i agree but there were some broken things on core engi, 9 poison on nades as well as explosive entrance

Neither is remotely broken on core because it doesn't have the tools to make use of these mechanics.True, core engi doesnt have a lot of tools. Which is not a problem you solve with "ehh lets just give a fkton of damage on every dodge"9 poison on grenades is absolutely nuts when paired with 25 might from photon forge. You're recieving 750 free condition damage, which results in that 9 poison hitting hard even on a power build.

On core power, that 9 poison basically results in a bit less healing, but otherwise it's negligable.Poison is 2nd highest dmg after burn and 9 stacks of it was overtuned baseline

Explosive Entrance on core actually helps one of Core engi's issues. It doesn't have good damage without running nades. It helped shore up that weakness a little bit. On Holo which already hit hard to begin with it was broken.

In both cases the issue is Holo. It's got so much power baked in that anything even remotely useful on core quickly becomes overpowered. We need to rebalnce the power between Holo and core so the Devs can actually create useful traits without Holo abusing them to terrorize the meta.

Singlular things can be broken without the whole being broken, for ex confounding suggestions was broken even though power mes wasnt meta and distortion on signet is dumb even though insp mes is not currently meta

I'll give you that. I don't particularly like damage on dodge effects, and it wasn't the right way to solve core Engi's problems. Degenerate mechanics are an issue regardless of build stregnth.

In this instance, Explosive Entrance's nerf was warranted. However, the overall reduction in core engi's power was not warranted. Underperforming aspects of the class need to be brought up, but they keep slapping it down with no compensation.

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:What makes you think core engi is not good? Maybe it’s just by nature that elite specs are a huge upgrade considering the mechanics of the class,

[unfolds list]

• Worst weapons in the game. (Still no MH power weapon to pair with shield)
• An entire trait line that does almost nothing for core, but is
  phenominal
  on Holo.
• Turrets overnerfed since forever. They're barely useful outside of toolbelt skills and detonate fodder even if running inventions.
• Kits constantly being nerfed to bring down Elites
• Bugs that go unaddressed for years (Anet forgets gadgeteer exists when adjusting things every time)
• It gets very little for free. Poor escape potentil without rocket boots, Poor damage output without Grenades (nerfed), Lacks defense/utility wthout Elixir Gun. No real boon uptime without Elixirs. Results in you struggling to fit in everything you need to make a functioning build. Meanwhile Holo gets Damage, sustain, boons, and mobility for free, which
  significantly
  frees up your build space.
• When was the last time you saw someone playing core engi while actively trying to climb?

Who cares?

Basically sums up your entire post. If you're not going to engage in discussion, why are you here?

@Quadox.7834 said:i mean in general i agree but there were some broken things on core engi, 9 poison on nades as well as explosive entrance

Neither is remotely broken on core because it doesn't have the tools to make use of these mechanics. 9 poison on grenades is absolutely nuts when paired with 25 might from photon forge. You're recieving 750 free condition damage, which results in that 9 poison hitting hard even on a power build.

On core power, that 9 poison basically results in a bit less healing, but otherwise it's negligable.

Explosive Entrance on core actually helps one of Core engi's issues. It doesn't have good damage without running nades. It helped shore up that weakness a little bit. On Holo which already hit hard to begin with it was broken.

In both cases the issue is Holo. It's got so much power baked in that anything even remotely useful on core quickly becomes overpowered. We need to rebalnce the power between Holo and core so the Devs can actually create useful traits without Holo abusing them to terrorize the meta.

What discussion is there even. Are u fixing a problem? No. Are you addressing issues as a whole? No. Are you trying to innovate new good builds to play as an engi main? No- why don’t u take a hint, like I’m always innovating new builds to play some good, some bad, some that become meta- just to make sure I can stay somewhat relevant in ranked and ats. I’ve also seen some great engi mains that always do the same and use many of the things you call “useless” and “worst in game” and they blow most ppl away with their performance. I don’t see why u cannot try too..

It doesn't help your point if you answer your own rhetorical questions incorrectly. All any of us can do to fix the problem outside outside of getting a job at Anet is point them out. If you're going to derail a thread with baseless assumptions, please do so somewhere else.

[Dantheman.3589]

What complete nonsense- as if no grenades build massively overperforming on classes other than holosmith existed, well many streamers and legend players could debate that since there were builds that carried much harder than holo smith in ranked. The real problem is a fabrication.

[Kuma.1503]

@"Dantheman.3589" said:What complete nonsense- as if no grenades build massively overperforming on classes other than holosmith existed, well many streamers and legend players could debate that since there were builds that carried much harder than holo smith in ranked. The real problem is a fabrication.

Out of everything you've said, the only thing I can say I agree with is the general notion that people should try to improve first before deflecting blame with"My class is too weak theirs is too strong.

Outside of that your points have basically boiled down to "You have a problem? Who cares, there are starving children in africa with bigger problems. Get over it". None of that is constructive to discussion.

Believe me, I am the first person to attempt to innovate new builds. Why do you think I'm playing core engi instead of Holo in the first place?. I'm never satisfied with just copy pasting what's meta. I need to know why exactly they use the weapons they do, I need to work out in my head why they choose the traits they do, and if better synergies might lie elsewhere I try to work it out.

I made a post just yesterday about how I tweaked the meta condi thief/renegade build to my liking. So like, chill.

Now that that's out of the way, you've got me curious. You mentioned some plat/legendary rank engis before who've adapted using the underperforming weapons. Are you saying that there are engineer players. Core engineer players using pistol and rifle in plat and doing well? If so I'd very much like to know what build/traits they're using.

[Cynz.9437]

They nerfed core thief heavily because of DD mobility using exactly same logic. They don't care. Just live with it.

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

I'm already happy they stopped balancing our skills for competitive AND PvE. We lost a lot of great mechanics and skills, just because someone in sPvP or WvW felt offended. But as @Dantheman.3589 already pointed out, who cares? It is only Engineer, let alone Core Engineer. Holo worked from the first day. It is beginner-friendly, most mechanics are self explanatory, it does not rely on combos at all. It is basically not even a real Engineer, more fits into a Warrior/Guardian hybrid.

The nade-nerf was inevitable. Everything that can be used by Holosmith is in risk of being balanced sooner or later. The only refuge we currently have are the F5 skills, because they are blocked by both Elite Specializations. This includes the infamous Moa xD. It is a down-toned version of the Mesmer skill. As long as no one manages to figure out an exploit to spam this skill more frequently, it will not face a balance-patch. If Holosmith can ever access it, they patch it within 1 week.

As long as they refuse to touch Holo, the downward-spiral for Core continues. I mean they even nerfed the Supply Crate, after almost 8 years. Holosmiths discovered it = nerf! I've seen the threads complaining about it, instant win button, sure. In the hands of such a powerful Elite Specialization it was too powerful.

It would be less of an issue if the developers would read our class-board. We know they read the sPvP sub-board very carefully. o/

[KrHome.1920]

@UNOwen.7132 said:But thats the thing. Grenade Kit wasnt broken. Holo was. They didnt nerf Holo. They nerfed Grenade Kit.Nade engineer, scrapper and holo were too strong. You faced the wrong players if you didn't notice that.

[Kuma.1503]

@KrHome.1920 said:

@"UNOwen.7132" said:But thats the thing. Grenade Kit wasnt broken. Holo was. They didnt nerf Holo. They nerfed Grenade Kit.Nade engineer, scrapper and holo were too strong. You faced the wrong players if you didn't notice that.

When you say core nade engi was too strong, are you referring to this build? http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Engineer_-_Core_Grenadier

General consensus from the community seems to be that it earns a 4, which is like... it's playable. Was playable. Strong is a bit of a stretch.