PvE : Why core Engi is so bad ?

[juno.1840]

If you're primarily using your weapons, instead of kits, then core-engi will feel horribly when leveling (although I do enjoy condi P/P to a degree). The same goes for underwater combat. I tried far too long to make speargun work before realizing I could use grenade kit or bomb kit underwater. Honestly bomb kit is the goto kit for most PvE as core-engi.

[Dixa.6017]

@Dawdler.8521 said:Is any other core build much better off in PvE? The meta is all PoF or HoT specs (which incidently include both holo and scrapper).

a power necro or condition necro core poops all over other core setups at end game, even core revenant. it can't die, and it's kill speed gets faster the more you understand the fights.

my experience doing a core necro, rev, engineer, ranger, mesmer in the last two weeks at 80.

[mov.1246]

PvE core engi is really bad compared to elite specs. Whatever core could do, elite does just better.If you want to play relaxed and tanky, you go scrapper. Even if you only spam bombkit #1, scrapper is the spec you prefer because of the insane barrier gain.If you want to max out your DPS, you go holo. Even condition builds are straigt better with holo.There is no reason to play core engi except nostalgia.This is sad, i always loved engi but i never liked the high-tech light and laser aesthetics of holosmith. It is kind of strange to holo mode with all that high-tech skills and then switch to kits with its rough look. Well this is really not important for gameplay, but it never felt "correct" to me.

[Wolfb.7025]

@"Orack.9756" said:^title.In core tyria it's "ok", but when you start HoT, uuuf, the worst experience I had with a class by far.I can't even solo most HP because the dps is so stupidly low than the time ran out...

This took my attention, i'm a holo main 9k+ hours playtime only on that class alone and I can't solo a HoT HP, lol

[Orack.9756]

@Wolfb.7025 said:

@"Orack.9756" said:^title.In core tyria it's "ok", but when you start HoT, uuuf, the worst experience I had with a class by far.I can't even solo most HP because the dps is so stupidly low than the time ran out...

This took my attention, i'm a holo main 9k+ hours playtime only on that class alone and I can't solo a HoT HP, lol

Don't give up it's just about practice, Holo have enough tool to do it unlike the core spe, take time to look at boss atk and once you know them it will be easier to no wast an important skill and staying alive to kill it ^^Avoid full zerk however, most HP in there will kill you if you're not a minimal tanky (marauder for exemple).

[Cleopatra.4068]

@Orack.9756 said:I've give up since many day on it. Even both E-spe was not fun enough to keep me in (but way better than core).In the end of all my test, Mesmer & Thief are what appeal me the most core and their spe are amazingly fun to play.

@"yLoon.5289" "melting mob" is doable by anyone w/o effort and any build.Doing HoT HP alone is another thing.If you can solo balty avatar, Coztic, Chack in auric and so on, then go ahead and show me, I'm curious about it tbh.But so far I was struggling hard for the 1st time to made them.I've level up and farm e-spe ALONE, in any other class but rev (not up yet) and it's was sometime hard but doable. But engi ? Uuf..

@The boz.2038 Totally explained what's wrong with engi. Add to that the extreme lack of weapon diversity and it become boring and tedious.

Leveling up core rev to get elite specs is easy. Core power rev can solo at least half the HoT skill points easily. I did it recently. I love engineer, but taking it into the expacs to try and get elite specs is awful. Needs a skill point train for sure. I’ve tried multiple core builds from metabattle, and none of it feels good outside core tyria. I’m in agreement, most of the other classes are much easier to farm elite specs on.

[Virdo.1540]

feeling scammed? For free to play content?

[Cleopatra.4068]

@Virdo.1540 said:feeling scammed? For free to play content?

It’s only free to play if you started playing after free to play became a thing. I paid for the content, 8 years ago, when it was buy to play. If you are farming elite specs, then you paid for an expansion.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Cleopatra.4068 said:I love engineer, but taking it into the expacs to try and get elite specs is awful. Needs a skill point train for sure.... Or play WvW and instantly unlock any elite spec for heroics because its dirt cheap. The game is only as hard as you want to make it.

[Cleopatra.4068]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Cleopatra.4068 said:I love engineer, but taking it into the expacs to try and get elite specs is awful. Needs a skill point train for sure.... Or play WvW and instantly unlock any elite spec for heroics because its dirt cheap. The game is only as hard as you want to make it.

If the modes didn’t have completely different skills, cool downs and damage, I might try that. The divided skills between modes are a huge deterrent for me. It took me ages to get to a decent level of skill in PvE, and taking an underpowered core build into a PvP environment with completely different specs for the skills I already learned so I can learn new specs to get skills to play in a different mode that will have different specs once I get them back there, all while being fodder for people who want quick kills is not something I’m interested in doing. I understand why the skills are different, but the bar is too high. I know some of you are MMO gods who know everything and don’t understand why carebears cannot just do everything the way you do it, blah blah blah. Good for you. It doesn’t help me.

[Bingus.4236]

I've levelled almost all my elite specs in WvW. it's very quick. Not even level 50 in the xp ranks (it goes into thousands) and I've levelled 6 elite specs with WvW heroics. It really is quick, I'm not a heavy player of this mode at all. Plus at the same time you are also getting lots of tomes of knowledge from reward tracks, which means you don't need to level extra chars to 80. The bar is really not high for joining WvW.

[Tiilimon.6094]

@Cleopatra.4068 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Cleopatra.4068 said:I love engineer, but taking it into the expacs to try and get elite specs is awful. Needs a skill point train for sure.... Or play WvW and instantly unlock any elite spec for heroics because its dirt cheap. The game is only as hard as you want to make it.

If the modes didn’t have completely different skills, cool downs and damage, I might try that. The divided skills between modes are a huge deterrent for me. It took me ages to get to a decent level of skill in PvE, and taking an underpowered core build into a PvP environment with completely different specs for the skills I already learned so I can learn new specs to get skills to play in a different mode that will have different specs once I get them back there, all while being fodder for people who want quick kills is not something I’m interested in doing. I understand why the skills are different, but the bar is too high. I know some of you are MMO gods who know everything and don’t understand why carebears cannot just do everything the way you do it, blah blah blah. Good for you. It doesn’t help me.

It's just like any other hobby, you gotta spend time training if you wish to get results.And I'd suggest not to treat it like it's something serious, it's just a computer game after all.

99.9% of the players are in the same boat as you, we're all just fodder if we are put against the very best.Most people really aren't very good at all, and are simply smashing buttons and following other people around the maps, and I'm definitely one of those :)

[Oxstar.7643]

I've played engineer since closed beta. I've watched it change and my conclusion is always the same - you need to really be good at stance dancing to get the most out of it. Not even elementalist have to do this because they have a cooldown on their element swaps and as such have to get their rotation out before changing elements. Engineers swap kits to use one or two skills then switch to something else. And back again. However - I am not sure it can compete with say warrior and revenant even in the best of hands. What makes me want to play it is because it's a very stimulating class because you have to constantly rotate and swap your weapons depending on the situation, and the better you are the more rewarded you are, and vice verse. It feels damn satisfying to make a whole group face plant with holo forge 5 and then send them careening with a big ol' bomb and then murder them piece meal with condis.

If there is anything I feel this class lacks it's answer to range. Turret shields sacrifices too much output and shield loses you massive condi due to no blowtorch and the anti-range is too long of a cooldown. Also, they severly need to improve turrets because what we have now is awful. They could copy TF2 and allow us to smack turrets with wrench to upgrade it. I'm hoping EoD gives a turret focused elite specc.Anyways, core engie is not really an argument now because my experience is that elite speccs is a direct upgrade and not having them makes every class less.

[XenoSpyro.1780]

I main Engi. Saying it's bad is an overstatement. You just have to figure out a build that flows good for you, and it will usually involve Tools line. With some tweaks you can squeeze out some decent damage from Firearms/Explosives, or survivability through Alchemy. For context, I've never been kicked from fractals for low damage, and the one guy that DID complain? He switched to his holosmith and immediately got deleted multiple times on Shattered. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[Oxstar.7643]

Yeah, that is a thing with engineer, you can crank out some pretty good damage, but you need to know what you are doing. Holosmith in particular, because you can kill yourself with overheating. And before someone says "every class is about knowing what you are doing", yes, but most classes do not have potentially 6 weapons to juggle.

[Nephalem.8921]

@XenoSpyro.1780 said:I main Engi. Saying it's bad is an overstatement. You just have to figure out a build that flows good for you, and it will usually involve Tools line. With some tweaks you can squeeze out some decent damage from Firearms/Explosives, or survivability through Alchemy. For context, I've never been kicked from fractals for low damage, and the one guy that DID complain? He switched to his holosmith and immediately got deleted multiple times on Shattered. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Are you joining cm groups though? Those groups would kick for sure. Power core engi kinda works but is far behind holo. like 30%-40% behind. Condi engi is completely fine dmg wise but almost nobody wants to play that. it has easily twice the apm of the 2nd most intense build. I hope engi gets a condi build with pof that doesnt cause carpal tunnel.Core engi is extremely bad without kits. im not sure why it is not the profession mechanic. its unplayable to not use kits as core engi. the base weapons are extremely bad and lack auto attack dmg. grenades do more dmg than pistol on a condi build and they dont even cause condis. only interact with shrapnel.

[Jaruselka.5943]

roses are redviolets are bluecore engie is badand if you play it, you will be too

[yLoon.5289]

@Orack.9756 said:I've give up since many day on it. Even both E-spe was not fun enough to keep me in (but way better than core).In the end of all my test, Mesmer & Thief are what appeal me the most core and their spe are amazingly fun to play.

@"yLoon.5289" "melting mob" is doable by anyone w/o effort and any build.Doing HoT HP alone is another thing.If you can solo balty avatar, Coztic, Chack in auric and so on, then go ahead and show me, I'm curious about it tbh.But so far I was struggling hard for the 1st time to made them.I've level up and farm e-spe ALONE, in any other class but rev (not up yet) and it's was sometime hard but doable. But engi ? Uuf..

@The boz.2038 Totally explained what's wrong with engi. Add to that the extreme lack of weapon diversity and it become boring and tedious.

HoT HP is not meant for solo, some classes can complete it easier, especially Ranger with a Bear to hold aggro.Everyone is struggling hard at the beginning of a Core Eng, same goes for me.As I said, share your Build, so we can comment objectively.DPS build of Core Eng is lackluster and boring, but Condi Build is fun, providing that you can play piano xD.If you prefer to hit just a few buttons to kill a large group of mobs, then Guardian is more of your choice, not Core Engr.

[medivh.4725]

At this point of writing, my engineer is good. It has in fact too many utility belts to choose from. Unless if you are not playing to the strengths of an engineer to begin with

[jniel.3581]

Sorry for the spew but WTH. 😃

 

The appropriate question is why does engineer still suck so bad versus everyone else. Even a barrier build is trash versus the weakest most incompetently played elementalist weaver build.

 

Once a LONG TIME AGO IN A GW2 THAT NEVER EXISTED OUTSIDE BETA we had these things called turrets and kits. While some kits don't outright "suck" they are, now,  by design subpar (eg: they will never be ascended+ *yawn* to those claiming they are). Turrets, a key trait of an engineer, are 99.9% (add a vinculum to that last 9)useless.

 

One might think if you are going relegate some foundational build piece of a profession to the trash (permanently from day 2ish?) you would at least have the common curtesy to replace it with an "equivalent"  (dont even say gyros).  At least the free placement trait like 8 years ago gave some hope but again, nerf. meh

 

I love my FT engineer but compared to any other profession, they suck and border on no point for existing outside peoples desire for them to be something they will never be. My holo is ok but frankly pointless since I may as well run my necro which will do more, survive more, bring more, is just... more.

 

Unless you desire the frequent flux of nerfville and uselessville go with anything else concentrating on a warrior, necro, mesmer, ele, etc. Eng was DOA a decade+ ago. To those that will claim its lack of knowing how to play. Sure I am not epic but when I can roll my face on the keyboard with a necro/druid/ele/etc and out do almost any engineer anywhere busting butt with good gear... Yah, the profession has massive issues. It always has and its not going to change if anything its going to get worse.

 

Oh and to those that say HOT HP isnt for solo. I did it on a ranger, warrior, necro, elementalist, mesmer and (OMG) guardian, vastly easier than my engineer which failed and at one point I kitten near gave up. This was when HOT first came out. I finally had a build that did "meh" and then they nerfed us again making it so things like our shielding was (shield isnt the right word but same diff). The life of an eng in gw2 is to never be good, to always be nerfed soon as they fix something and never be needed. Good luck. 😃

Edited July 3, 2021 by jniel.3581
Missed a comment as to second to last post.

[Stalima.5490]

wow is this argument still going on? I remember back at release people were also complaining about the profession i the same ways for some reason. (It was called the noob filter profession for a reason)

 

 

What messes with people a lot is that the engineer does not outright excel at any focused capability but rather they excel at having a large array of tools, something that just about any other class is incapable of.

 

If the class runes are anything to go by then the engineer is meant to be a condition damage/toughness tank, they likely intended it to use the rabid set and wear enemies down which is likely why the turrets never scaled (but give a lot of power damage to a condition build technically)

Edited July 4, 2021 by Stalima.5490

[anbujackson.9564]

2 hours ago, Stalima.5490 said:

wow is this argument still going on? I remember back at release people were also complaining about the profession i the same ways for some reason. (It was called the noob filter profession for a reason)

 

 

What messes with people a lot is that the engineer does not outright excel at any focused capability but rather they excel at having a large array of tools, something that just about any other class is incapable of.

 

If the class runes are anything to go by then the engineer is meant to be a condition damage/toughness tank, they likely intended it to use the rabid set and wear enemies down which is likely why the turrets never scaled (but give a lot of power damage to a condition build technically)

I think the problem is that most of the tools are just not good enough or the effects are straight up bad. 

 

It would have been better to reduce the amount of tools and make the leftovers more useful, especially in a supportive way for group content. Elixiers for example have so much potential. But no the only effects for groups are on the F skills and they are bad (random application of  just 1 boon for example?). And then you have the grandmaster trait HGH. Why is the might not on 5 people for example? It just makes them even more selfish.

[Kodama.6453]

On 7/4/2021 at 9:41 AM, Stalima.5490 said:

wow is this argument still going on? I remember back at release people were also complaining about the profession i the same ways for some reason. (It was called the noob filter profession for a reason)

 

 

What messes with people a lot is that the engineer does not outright excel at any focused capability but rather they excel at having a large array of tools, something that just about any other class is incapable of.

 

If the class runes are anything to go by then the engineer is meant to be a condition damage/toughness tank, they likely intended it to use the rabid set and wear enemies down which is likely why the turrets never scaled (but give a lot of power damage to a condition build technically)

"Alot" of power damage for a condition build, lol. Rifle turret deals around 500 damage every 2 seconds, which makes it have 250 dps. The power damage from turrets is laughably bad.

[Ivantreil.3092]

This not only should be PvE, Core Engi as a whole peforms subpar compared to the other Elite Specs, and straight up bad in comparison to other classes.

 

As someone with experience on Core, i'll put my 2 cents here:

 

* Core Engi in PvP is really fragile, it's uncapable to deal decent damage unless you go full berzerk with it, which obviously makes an easy target to focus, you won't last if focused by multiple people.

 

* Both in PvP and PvE Core suffers an extreme dependance on kits, sadly not surprising as it been like that since Core Tyria days, but it does as certain kits aren't capable to deal enough damage by themselves and rely on nitpicking 1 to 3 damaging skills to reach a decent damage tier.

   ** With the previous point, this usually happens as Gadgets and Turrets are awful when attempted to replace a kit.

 

*Because of this dependance on kits too, whatever Core Engi could do the specs can do better, Just slap kits, an elite spec, and it's arguably an improvement over core.

 

Not only core is in need of big buffs, but a need to have a separate identity from their Elite counterparts, make usage of Gadgets and turrets on a more efficient way would be a right step as a starter, buff the gadget sector as a starter.

 

Not having big hopes at all, lost them a long time ago, Core Engi will always be relegated as a 2/3 kit piano build with damage comparable to an AA Deadeye.

 

Ah, and Condi Engi on PvP is just straight up bad.

 

Best hopes are on the new Elite spec at this point if you wanna have something fresh and new.

 

 

[haattila.5974]

I love how this thread was about PVE but illetrate people came to talk about pvp and wvw 🤣.

Condi core can definitly deal as much as condi holo on certain encounter, on a golem optimal rotation is definitly easier on condi core than holo. On a real fight holo is much more fluid to play but i wouldn't say easier

Edited July 20, 2021 by haattila.5974