About Deadeye, deal with it

[Graeaw.6329]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:Oddly enough I meet power mesmers who take you down in one combo when you're constantly dazed which pretty much equals to our one-shot but that is in order for everyone.No it doesnt. Thats far from using one skill and all of them have cooldowns.

Bit granted, can we give DJ 40s cd and end the argument? Since it basicly better than any elite skill. Surely that would make all thieves happy. While we are at it lets just add cooldown on all thief weapon skills so it pretty much equals our other classes.

You have never played thief in your life, let alone thief without trickery traitline, if you did, you would know that thieves have cooldowns too.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Graeaw.6329 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:Oddly enough I meet power mesmers who take you down in one combo when you're constantly dazed which pretty much equals to our one-shot but that is in order for everyone.No it doesnt. Thats far from using one skill and all of them have cooldowns.

Bit granted, can we give DJ 40s cd and end the argument? Since it basicly better than any elite skill. Surely that would make all thieves happy. While we are at it lets just add cooldown on all thief weapon skills so it pretty much equals our other classes.

You have never played thief in your life, let alone thief without trickery traitline, if you did, you would know that thieves have cooldowns too.It's about as much "cooldown" as the cooldown on stealth - which of course has never been OP since the release of the game either, no sir. Poor thieves. What's next? Nerfing the damage of backstab to 15k?

[Graeaw.6329]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Graeaw.6329 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:Oddly enough I meet power mesmers who take you down in one combo when you're constantly dazed which pretty much equals to our one-shot but that is in order for everyone.No it doesnt. Thats far from using one skill and all of them have cooldowns.

Bit granted, can we give DJ 40s cd and end the argument? Since it basicly better than any elite skill. Surely that would make all thieves happy. While we are at it lets just add cooldown on all thief weapon skills so it pretty much equals our other classes.

You have never played thief in your life, let alone thief without trickery traitline, if you did, you would know that thieves have cooldowns too.It's about as much "cooldown" as the cooldown on stealth - which of course has never been OP since the release of the game either, no sir. Poor thieves. What's next? Nerfing the damage of backstab to 15k?

At this point you are just spewing hate. I suggest you take your chill pill and we can try to have discussion based on facts. (No, screaming OP like a headless chicken does not make it a fact.)

[Burnfall.9573]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:Oddly enough I meet power mesmers who take you down in one combo when you're constantly dazed which pretty much equals to our one-shot but that is in order for everyone.No it doesnt. Thats far from using one skill and all of them have cooldowns.

Bit granted, can we give DJ 40s cd and end the argument? Since it basicly better than any elite skill. Surely that would make all thieves happy. While we are at it lets just add cooldown on all thief weapon skills so it pretty much equals our other classes.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:Oddly enough I meet power mesmers who take you down in one combo when you're constantly dazed which pretty much equals to our one-shot but that is in order for everyone.No it doesnt. Thats far from using one skill and all of them have cooldowns.

Bit granted, can we give DJ 40s cd and end the argument? Since it basicly better than any elite skill. Surely that would make all thieves happy. While we are at it lets just add cooldown on all thief weapon skills so it pretty much equals our other classes.

Here is a video of popular pvp players who main thief and ranger who was instantly 1 shot by a power mesmer+daze. Both of these classes are toxic to pvp+wvw and they should not be given any excuses nor any pity whatsoever.

-Some has asked for extending cooldowns which sound like a better solution but in reality, it only gives more excuses to the root cause of the problems-

I found a quote that explains it well:

"We are really shuffling the problem around as supposed to digging at the roots cause of the problem"

Both thief and Mesmer must be removed and to be redesign from the ground up for the health of pvp+wvw. Giving cool down or given whatever will not fix the problem, removing the root cause of is.

anyhow, here is the video

"GW2: D/D Thief 1 SHOT KILL"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEOk2Wtj95I

[Chaba.5410]

@Inoki.6048 said:

@Chaba.5410 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:It would be a bug if you could do it on inanimate objects

I take it you haven't marked a gate in WvW yet.

nope, believe it or not, I don't do that.

I run my own, customized build that also doesn't one-shoot ppl. It does 8 - 10k on average and I burst down ppl like any other "regular" class would. But I am also glass cannon. I changed some things to lower damage in favour of more stealth e.g. since I play more defensive / infiltration if needed (scouting perimeter, camp / tower defense and so on).

Oddly enough I meet power mesmers who take you down in one combo when you're constantly dazed which pretty much equals to our one-shot but that is in order for everyone.

OK. I was talking about the skill and how it has a bug and how it is being used, not how you personally play the class so now I'm not quite sure what the original intent of your post was. You may not be playing thief a certain way, but that doesn't mean others aren't.

[snh.7091]

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:Oddly enough I meet power mesmers who take you down in one combo when you're constantly dazed which pretty much equals to our one-shot but that is in order for everyone.No it doesnt. Thats far from using one skill and all of them have cooldowns.

Bit granted, can we give DJ 40s cd and end the argument? Since it basicly better than any elite skill. Surely that would make all thieves happy. While we are at it lets just add cooldown on all thief weapon skills so it pretty much equals our other classes.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:Oddly enough I meet power mesmers who take you down in one combo when you're constantly dazed which pretty much equals to our one-shot but that is in order for everyone.No it doesnt. Thats far from using one skill and all of them have cooldowns.

Bit granted, can we give DJ 40s cd and end the argument? Since it basicly better than any elite skill. Surely that would make all thieves happy. While we are at it lets just add cooldown on all thief weapon skills so it pretty much equals our other classes.

Here is a video of popular pvp players who main thief and ranger who was instantly 1 shot by a power mesmer+daze. Both of these classes are toxic to pvp+wvw and they should not be given any excuses nor any pity whatsoever.

-Some has asked for extending cooldowns which sound like a better solution but in reality, it only gives more excuses to the root cause of the problems-

I found a quote that explains it well:

"We are really shuffling the problem around as supposed to digging at the roots cause of the problem"

Both thief and Mesmer must be removed and to be redesign from the ground up for the health of pvp+wvw. Giving cool down or given whatever will not fix the root cause of the problem, removing the root is.

anyhow, here is the video

"GW2: D/D Thief 1 SHOT KILL"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEOk2Wtj95I

I laughed so hard as he retreated from the screen :D :D :D

But anyways, what you see there is an exact example of mesmers doing the same as us but everyone says that's not the same. Maybe not in execution, but in principle, yer.

@Burnfall.9573 power mesmers have actually been buffed IIRC not so long ago, so don't expect them to be nerfed.

On another note, Scourges do this exact same thing by touching you exactly twice, landing so many condis on you....... I remember exactly just from a few days ago I fought a Scourge, he dropped everything on me with 2 circles, I vividly picture the moment when I was reaching to press my healing skill / condi cleanse but the condis were a lot faster than my response and my reflexes aren't bad + I use a gaming mouse with 9 buttons placed so well the distance between my finger and the button is close to nil.

[Turk.5460]

@Chaba.5410 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:

@Chaba.5410 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:It would be a bug if you could do it on inanimate objects

I take it you haven't marked a gate in WvW yet.

nope, believe it or not, I don't do that.

I run my own, customized build that also doesn't one-shoot ppl. It does 8 - 10k on average and I burst down ppl like any other "regular" class would. But I am also glass cannon. I changed some things to lower damage in favour of more stealth e.g. since I play more defensive / infiltration if needed (scouting perimeter, camp / tower defense and so on).

Oddly enough I meet power mesmers who take you down in one combo when you're constantly dazed which pretty much equals to our one-shot but that is in order for everyone.

OK. I was talking about the skill and how it has a bug and how it is being used, not how you personally play the class so now I'm not quite sure what the original intent of your post was. You may not be playing thief a certain way, but that doesn't mean others aren't.

Obviously you just need to git gud. That's the takeaway from this thread, right?

[Jana.6831]

@Burnfall.9573 said:snipI love this guy's glasses.Anyway: It's not only thief and mesmers it's 'all classes'. It's not just single specs that are a problem. If these don't do enough damage and don't have enough evades how should they compete against guards/warriors and so on? It's too much of everything in game and yes, not even DE should be able to one shot - no one should be able to do so but a lot of specs are able to do exactly that.

[Chaba.5410]

@Turk.5460 said:

@Chaba.5410 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:

@Chaba.5410 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:It would be a bug if you could do it on inanimate objects

I take it you haven't marked a gate in WvW yet.

nope, believe it or not, I don't do that.

I run my own, customized build that also doesn't one-shoot ppl. It does 8 - 10k on average and I burst down ppl like any other "regular" class would. But I am also glass cannon. I changed some things to lower damage in favour of more stealth e.g. since I play more defensive / infiltration if needed (scouting perimeter, camp / tower defense and so on).

Oddly enough I meet power mesmers who take you down in one combo when you're constantly dazed which pretty much equals to our one-shot but that is in order for everyone.

OK. I was talking about the skill and how it has a bug and how it is being used, not how you personally play the class so now I'm not quite sure what the original intent of your post was. You may not be playing thief a certain way, but that doesn't mean others aren't.

Obviously you just need to git gud. That's the takeaway from this thread, right?

I thought the take away was "it's bugged so deal with it". :anguished:

[snh.7091]

@Jana.6831 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

snip

I love this guy's glasses.Anyway: It's not only thief and mesmers it's 'all classes'. It's not just single specs that are a problem. If these don't do enough damage and don't have enough evades how should they compete against guards/warriors and so on? It's too much of everything in game and yes, not even DE should be able to one shot - no one should be able to do so but a lot of specs are able to do exactly that.

I hate to explain myself over and over given the fact that many people refuse to understand a simple notion, so I'll just paste the link to my previous post where I explained it,

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/218226/#Comment_218226

and before anyone dives into the "this is a video game" argument, where do you think they got inspiration about snipers from other than real life? Have you met with the sniper topic anywhere else? So yer, I will use it always as an example, because it is a legit one.

[Turk.5460]

@Chaba.5410 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Chaba.5410 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:

@Chaba.5410 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:It would be a bug if you could do it on inanimate objects

I take it you haven't marked a gate in WvW yet.

nope, believe it or not, I don't do that.

I run my own, customized build that also doesn't one-shoot ppl. It does 8 - 10k on average and I burst down ppl like any other "regular" class would. But I am also glass cannon. I changed some things to lower damage in favour of more stealth e.g. since I play more defensive / infiltration if needed (scouting perimeter, camp / tower defense and so on).

Oddly enough I meet power mesmers who take you down in one combo when you're constantly dazed which pretty much equals to our one-shot but that is in order for everyone.

OK. I was talking about the skill and how it has a bug and how it is being used, not how you personally play the class so now I'm not quite sure what the original intent of your post was. You may not be playing thief a certain way, but that doesn't mean others aren't.

Obviously you just need to git gud. That's the takeaway from this thread, right?

I thought the take away was "it's bugged so deal with it". :anguished:

"It's bugged so git deal with gud it".

[Burnfall.9573]

@Inoki.6048 said:

@Chaba.5410 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:It would be a bug if you could do it on inanimate objects

I take it you haven't marked a gate in WvW yet.

nope, believe it or not, I don't do that.

I run my own, customized build that also doesn't one-shoot ppl. It does 8 - 10k on average and I burst down ppl like any other "regular" class would. But I am also glass cannon. I changed some things to lower damage in favour of more stealth e.g. since I play more defensive / infiltration if needed (scouting perimeter, camp / tower defense and so on).

Oddly enough I meet power mesmers who take you down in one combo when you're constantly dazed which pretty much equals to our one-shot but that is in order for everyone.

This remind me of past memories where some thief players would change their builds to not 1 shot players or not play toxic builds just to play fair against other players.Such pleasant memories........

I applaud you Inoki

"We should welcome applause whenever it comes"

[Chaba.5410]

@Inoki.6048 said:

@Jana.6831 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

snip

I love this guy's glasses.Anyway: It's not only thief and mesmers it's 'all classes'. It's not just single specs that are a problem. If these don't do enough damage and don't have enough evades how should they compete against guards/warriors and so on? It's too much of everything in game and yes, not even DE should be able to one shot - no one should be able to do so but a lot of specs are able to do exactly that.

I hate to explain myself over and over given the fact that many people refuse to understand a simple notion, so I'll just paste the link to my previous post where I explained it,

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/218226/#Comment_218226

and before anyone dives into the "this is a video game" argument, where do you think they got inspiration about snipers from other than real life? Have you met with the sniper topic anywhere else? So yer, I will use it always as an example, because it is a legit one.

Maybe you should just merge your thread with that one where it was already explained that there's a bug with the DJ skill.

[Burnfall.9573]

@Jana.6831 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

snip

I love this guy's glasses.Anyway: It's not only thief and mesmers it's 'all classes'. It's not just single specs that are a problem. If these don't do enough damage and don't have enough evades how should they compete against guards/warriors and so on? It's too much of everything in game and yes, not even DE should be able to one shot - no one should be able to do so but a lot of specs are able to do exactly that.

I completely agree with you Jana

[juno.1840]

I think DeadEye has an important role in WvW right now -- kill the opposition glass canons. As mentioned already, there are multiple counters to the snipe -- including running a tougher build.

[babazhook.6805]

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:Oddly enough I meet power mesmers who take you down in one combo when you're constantly dazed which pretty much equals to our one-shot but that is in order for everyone.No it doesnt. Thats far from using one skill and all of them have cooldowns.

Bit granted, can we give DJ 40s cd and end the argument? Since it basicly better than any elite skill. Surely that would make all thieves happy. While we are at it lets just add cooldown on all thief weapon skills so it pretty much equals our other classes.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:Oddly enough I meet power mesmers who take you down in one combo when you're constantly dazed which pretty much equals to our one-shot but that is in order for everyone.No it doesnt. Thats far from using one skill and all of them have cooldowns.

Bit granted, can we give DJ 40s cd and end the argument? Since it basicly better than any elite skill. Surely that would make all thieves happy. While we are at it lets just add cooldown on all thief weapon skills so it pretty much equals our other classes.

Here is a video of popular pvp players who main thief and ranger who was instantly 1 shot by a power mesmer+daze. Both of these classes are toxic to pvp+wvw and they should not be given any excuses nor any pity whatsoever.

-Some has asked for extending cooldowns which sound like a better solution but in reality, it only gives more excuses to the root cause of the problems-

I found a quote that explains it well:

"We are really shuffling the problem around as supposed to digging at the roots cause of the problem"

Both thief and Mesmer must be removed and to be redesign from the ground up for the health of pvp+wvw. Giving cool down or given whatever will not fix the problem, removing the root cause of is.

anyhow, here is the video

"GW2: D/D Thief 1 SHOT KILL"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEOk2Wtj95I

To DJ.

You can also dodge all of that damage or block it by pressing ONE button. This results in thief burning fully halfof his INI. Malice runs OUT. By the time a DE thief gets off his second DJ (and now OUT of INI) he is now out of INI and has to wait for it to regen. This pushes the mark to the limit of its duration meaning a to zero rest.

Let me tell you what will happen if DJ nerfed as people call for. The damage of the AA on the thief weaponset would have to be increased in order to compensate. Burning 6 ini for a shot that is easily blocked or dodged and requires some 12+ seconds to build up out of a 25 second MARK duration HAS to come with a big fat reward otherwise it would not be used.

If the AA is increased to compensate we will see even more complaints as was made evident by the same happening in d/x thief. There too much focus on the end damge of a thief that sets up the "perfect shot' and not enough on all of the ways this perfect shot can be avoided or countered.

[Sobx.1758]

@Reaper Alim.4176 said:What? Thief got some more skills that one shots people out of the blue in GW2? Meh, just another day in GW2. Nothing to see or hear here, just move along.

That's exactly what ANet wanted for that class. To be able to kill people without offering them the chance to fight back. Come on guys, I thought yall was much smarter than this? Way to let me down again. :trollface:

You literally learn to dodge skills with similar cast time at around level 8. I mean... regular players learn, apparently you don't.Stick to pve.

[primatos.5413]

@Inoki.6048 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:Oddly enough I meet power mesmers who take you down in one combo when you're constantly dazed which pretty much equals to our one-shot but that is in order for everyone.No it doesnt. Thats far from using one skill and all of them have cooldowns.

Bit granted, can we give DJ 40s cd and end the argument? Since it basicly better than any elite skill. Surely that would make all thieves happy. While we are at it lets just add cooldown on all thief weapon skills so it pretty much equals our other classes.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:Oddly enough I meet power mesmers who take you down in one combo when you're constantly dazed which pretty much equals to our one-shot but that is in order for everyone.No it doesnt. Thats far from using one skill and all of them have cooldowns.

Bit granted, can we give DJ 40s cd and end the argument? Since it basicly better than any elite skill. Surely that would make all thieves happy. While we are at it lets just add cooldown on all thief weapon skills so it pretty much equals our other classes.

Here is a video of popular pvp players who main thief and ranger who was instantly 1 shot by a power mesmer+daze. Both of these classes are toxic to pvp+wvw and they should not be given any excuses nor any pity whatsoever.

-Some has asked for extending cooldowns which sound like a better solution but in reality, it only gives more excuses to the root cause of the problems-

I found a quote that explains it well:

"We are really shuffling the problem around as supposed to digging at the roots cause of the problem"

Both thief and Mesmer must be removed and to be redesign from the ground up for the health of pvp+wvw. Giving cool down or given whatever will not fix the root cause of the problem, removing the root is.

anyhow, here is the video

"GW2: D/D Thief 1 SHOT KILL"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEOk2Wtj95I

I laughed so hard as he retreated from the screen :D :D :D

But anyways, what you see there is an exact example of mesmers doing the same as us but everyone says that's not the same. Maybe not in execution, but in principle, yer.

@Burnfall.9573 power mesmers have actually been buffed IIRC not so long ago, so don't expect them to be nerfed.

On another note, Scourges do this exact same thing by touching you exactly twice, landing so many condis on you....... I remember exactly just from a few days ago I fought a Scourge, he dropped everything on me with 2 circles, I vividly picture the moment when I was reaching to press my healing skill / condi cleanse but the condis were a lot faster than my response and my reflexes aren't bad + I use a gaming mouse with 9 buttons placed so well the distance between my finger and the button is close to nil.

As this thread is about DE .. people talking about DE nothing wrong with that .. see .. i think A LOT of different classes/builds/skills need some adjustment to at least try to keep a competitive game mode somehow healthy and fun for everyone.. and i´m sure many ohers agree..So .. not finding People complaining about other broken game mechanics than DJ in this Tread does´nt mean they say the rest of broken / untuned mechanis is fine .... got what i´m trying to say with that ?

[Jana.6831]

@primatos.5413 said:As this thread is about DE .. people talking about DE nothing wrong with that .. see .. i think A LOT of different classes/builds/skills need some adjustment to at least try to keep a competitive game mode somehow healthy and fun for everyone.. and i´m sure many ohers agree..So .. not finding People complaining about other broken game mechanics than DJ in this Tread does´nt mean they say the rest of broken / untuned mechanis is fine .... got what i´m trying to say with that ?

Yes, but a lot of what is broken with thief is because of other classes. And you guys have a habit to always point your fingers at thief ROOT OF ALL EVIL!!

[primatos.5413]

Don´t worry i´m aware of the big picture which clearly says: Blame Anet! Joking aside .. isn´t it a little suspect to establish one -let´s say .. overtuned..? - mechanic with another overtuned one ? One of the main problems imo is that classes are not clearly enough defined in their usage .. (want more of "x" -roaming for example with higher mobility and more burst so class/build is getting worse @ "y" dmg reduce / hp pool.. feels like they (anet) tried to give as much as possible of everything to everyone idk ... maybe somewhere out there is the holy grail of balance ..maybe no one will ever be able to find it .. anet seems not even trying to think about it may exist..

Everyone should be able to participate @ a game having a fair chance for fun and not feeling completly useles (not even thiefes :P ) but there should always be the time for beeing heard and taken serious if it comes to obviously too strong moves.. yes loosing mobility and decrease of condi remove is hard, but maybe that´s the price to pay for the oneshot ability .. not willing to pay ? Adjust build .. Or accept the fact that balancing issues gone wrong and they´ll have to adjust things. I would appreciate much if anet would have put out thief specs suiting thief players as well as other classes .. but hey at least there is a halloween "joke" @ WvW now. Nobody can say that there´s been nothing done for WvW. Neverending story .. i´m out @ this point.. good luck all :)

[Dawdler.8521]

@babazhook.6805 said:Let me tell you what will happen if DJ nerfed as people call for. The damage of the AA on the thief weaponset would have to be increased in order to compensate. Burning 6 ini for a shot that is easily blocked or dodged and requires some 12+ seconds to build up out of a 25 second MARK duration HAS to come with a big fat reward otherwise it would not be used.But... Why?

No seriously, why does AA has to be increased if max DJ damage is reduced. "Burning" 6 ini for it is literally nothing. Otherclasses have weapon skills that can easily fail on 25-30s+ cds and they wont even do a fraction of the damage.

Balancing against the roof is silly - especially when the roof is bugged. If we did that well then all classes should be balanced like that. They're not. Anet even deletes things and never "compensate". Scrapper still having daze duration buff when daze was removed from gyros anyone?

I demand 2.5K autos on my pistol!!!

[choovanski.5462]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Reaper Alim.4176 said:What? Thief got some more skills that one shots people out of the blue in GW2? Meh, just another day in GW2. Nothing to see or hear here, just move along.

That's exactly what ANet wanted for that class. To be able to kill people without offering them the chance to fight back. Come on guys, I thought yall was much smarter than this? Way to let me down again. :trollface:

You literally learn to dodge skills with similar cast time at around level 8. I mean... regular players learn, apparently you don't.Stick to pve.

this is such a silly argument. you can hit 20-35k in PvP gear with DJ, much higher on WvW.

but apparently this damage from 1500 range (plus the mark bug) is fine because of a 0.75 second cast time? like, dude there a ton of abilities with longer or equal casts and much bigger tells (ie any melee ability)- should they all one shot, just because it's possible to dodge them?

like, 100-0 in one skill, especially a long range skill is just terrible design. I knew DE was going to be toxic for roaming before it was even announced. rifle + thief was never going to work

[ZyniX.3589]

Meanwhile in PvE rifle damage is trash and will probably get nerfed even more thanks to all the PvP whiners.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@ZyniX.3589 said:Meanwhile in PvE rifle damage is trash and will probably get nerfed even more thanks to all the PvP whiners.

Boohoo, it takes an additional 1.5s to kill the mindless pixels.

[Odokuro.5049]

Thief has been and will always be the target for hate and complaints. We stealth too much, we deal too much damage, we have too much mobility, ect. Thiefs are glass cannons, we need mobility to disengage because getting caught = death, we need to do a lot of damage because again, or damage is all we have. No group support/utility, no real defensive skillset outside of our mobility/evades, ect.

See OP, people don't see a class as a class, they see it as a line of 1's and 0's, and if that class has more 1's then it's OP and broken as heck. This is all the while condi classes can spam the entirety of every condition under the sun, and call it fair play because we have condi-clear that removes maybe 1 to 3 conditions max, that in turn will be right back on you moments later, because "Balance".

Maybe people should exercise their situational awareness and be aware of what or who is around them, utilize that skill they have to avoid being killed, because as I see it, a lot of people just don't want to try and would rather ANet just bust apart a spec just because they don't feel like trying to counter it.