About Deadeye, deal with it

[Sobx.1758]

@Caedmon.6798 said:Yeah 21k is completely legit makes for healthy gameplay.

I really dont mind deadeye in general but i think no class should be able to pull of this damage with the use of one skill.

Then what are you doing here? Why haven't you started an anti-condi dmg crusade yet?

Warris used to be able with killshot where 20 was around max.That got heavily nerfed aswell,and not because were tanky and have acces to invulns and blocks,it just should not be possible for anyone to do this damage with the press of a single skill.

Sure, totally not because of that... And you say that based on what? Are you the dev? Did devs share with you some behind-the-scene informations?Or maybe you're another person that prefers to present their opinion/guesses as facts for the sake of making up another ""argument""?Because I think that being a glass cannon with 20k dmg and being a bunker with 20k dmg makes a huge difference.

[Fluffball.8307]

If you got hit with any profession's autoattack you would immediately die. This is the most ridiculous thread I've ever seen in five years.

[snh.7091]

Edited main post for clarity. Over and out.

[Cerby.1069]

Well at least the thread provides good insight into the inner psyche of the people who use deadeye.

You are in trouble here friend. You know I'm tempted to help you out with your argument here. Once I find some evidence I'll try and come up with an argument why deadeye is balanced or....maybe arguing balance is out of the question and necessity should be where the core defense lies. Maybe.

[Sovereign.1093]

gives me the vibes that each class should have a one skill kill button. hehe

[Graeaw.6329]

@Cerby.1069 said:Well at least the thread provides good insight into the inner psyche of the people who use deadeye.

You are in trouble here friend. You know I'm tempted to help you out with your argument here. Once I find some evidence I'll try and come up with an argument why deadeye is balanced or....maybe arguing balance is out of the question and necessity should be where the core defense lies. Maybe.

The inner psyche of one deadeye at best. I'd settle for a change where Death's Judgement would only scale from Malice stacks against my Marked target, BUT first they'd have to fix all our bugs (traits not working on specific skills, movement skills bugged, attack range BROKEN, Mark reset bugging out and more) or else the spec becomes an unreliable one trick cheese (which it currently is anyways).

[Solori.6025]

@Graeaw.6329 said:

@Cerby.1069 said:Well at least the thread provides good insight into the inner psyche of the people who use deadeye.

You are in trouble here friend. You know I'm tempted to help you out with your argument here. Once I find some evidence I'll try and come up with an argument why deadeye is balanced or....maybe arguing balance is out of the question and necessity should be where the core defense lies. Maybe.

The inner psyche of one deadeye at best. I'd settle for a change where Death's Judgement would only scale from Malice stacks against my Marked target, BUT first they'd have to fix all our bugs (traits not working on specific skills, movement skills bugged, attack range BROKEN, Mark reset bugging out and more) or else the spec becomes an unreliable one trick cheese (which it currently is anyways).

I would support this if DJ pierced, otherwise it's a really crappy attack with a large tell that ambient creatures can ruin.I agree that they need to fix bugs first, but seeing how they have treated mesmer since launch with a lot of the bugs that class has had since Pre-HoT launch I wont hold my breath for them to fix things before they break something.Honestly I would love it if they added a GM trait to make the rifle pierce and had it compete with Mal7, then you would have a much more meaningful choice for GM traits.

[Felipe.1807]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Felipe.1807 said:but i guess in this game most players are to lazy or just bad to actually learn how to play, so they need this kind of skilless combat desings in order to be competitive...

Oh look, another SB ;D

but it is funny sometimes when playing Firebrand and end up crossing the path of those deadeyes groups, I just drop to reflect from F3 and watch they kill thenselfs, they are so bad that they dont even know why they are dying...

Guys, I can easly and effortlessly counter groups of DE, but I'll come here and complain that DE is OP.

logic

but it does suck when you face someone who actually knows what he is doing

Oh jesus, the irony....

I dont play Warrior outside of pve, is broken right now and i refuse to play with it on spvp and wvw.The thing a said about me whipping groups of deadeyes with firebrand is more to show how bad most players are...they keep shooting at range with rifle or pistol and dont even realize they are killing thenselfs...all they had to do is switch to d/p or any other weapon set to eat me alive...i though that was pretty obvious and I would not had to explain it, but i guess i was wrong...The third part, was literally me basically saying that is pretty much impossible(atleast to me) to actually fight a thief who knows what he is doing, simple because thief(with mesmers and druids) is the most broken profession for WvW roaming.

In conclusion, stealth on demand, highest mobility on game(even with you are not a daredevil you still have shortbow) and high burst damage from both range and melee...its a little to much, this is rpg game, not a fps lol i shouldnt not have to keep worring with annoying kids with snipers or running around with knifes that one shot you, everything should have a clear counter and if you will have a one hit KO kind of skill, should have a long cast time with a long cooldown...thiefs are not the only ones guilty of this shit, but the whole stealth and mobility thing really make then the most annoying ones.

[Khaliel.3918]

The best part in all of this is trailblazer necros/mesmers and even some spellbreakers crying because of DE's damage. People are so used to being "unkillable" they think DE's damage is a bug or unfair. This community is fucking sad. hahahaha

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

If they nerfed the Gazelle so it couldn't 1-shot, from melee range, without stealth and requiring the use of several skills and modifiers, you know it's going to happen to DJ and marking of different targets for malice generation. Just sayin'.

[babazhook.6805]

The longer the DJ shot made by DE , the less likely it hits the target. Given the DE is kneeling there more in the way of shots that are obstructed meaning 1+ 6 ini burned. The longer range also means it less likely a moving target can be hit as the projectile relatively slow. (I have simply outrun more then a few or just had it miss me by moving to one side.)

Fighting DE at range is like fighting any thief. You are NOT baiting cooldowns. You are fighting against an INI pool and the more INI you can get that thief to burn off for no effect , the better position you are in.

If that thief close up , then his effectiveness with a DJ goes up. That thief is also more vulnerable as well and more prone to reveals. Now I have been stealthed point blank fighting a spellbreaker who is madly swinging his weapon in the location he saw me stealth in an attempt to down me. With SA traited along with CIS , my DE can eat a lot of these attacks and can get a DJ shot off. If that SB had sight beyond sight or mageborne tether traited he would lay a licking on me. It not an issue of a skill being OP (being able to attack "Coming out of stealth") if traits or utilties that can counter this are not taken.

To DJ itself and the nature of the malice stacks. I do not think it a BUG. The MARK will see all attacks against said mark increase based upon the number of stacks of malice the mark has on him or her. This means a p/p unload will hit for 21 percent more damage if said mark runs with 7 stacks. DJ damage works very much like Shadowflare in this regard.It's damage is modified by the number of stacks of malice sitting on the thief . Whether the target was the mark is not tied to this added damage.

Now they might well change this so as to make DJ damage only increase against the mark . This would mean a theoretical hit of 21 percent from the malice mark added to a further damage bonus of 15 percent per out of DJ (max of 105 percent from just DJ) This will still hit hard and was INTENDED to hit hard . The DJ stacks themself are a theoretical increase of damage from DJ of some 105 percent. Base damage of DJ is 696(1.65). Gunflame base damage is 928(2.2) with a 3 second burn. Gunflame base is higher and DJ only catches up with full malice.

[reddie.5861]

@Inoki.6048 said:

@Vova.2640 said:What is this supposed to mean? People are complaining about a BUG that lets you do unreasonable amounts of damage.You're telling people to "deal with it" because you and other dead eyes are enjoying abusing a bug.How pathetic.

really? so that is a bug, but spellbreakers blocking everything, having insane regen, damage, mobility, toughness and just about everything in the game along with scourges with a trillion condis on touch is perfectly fine.

stop taking those meds.

wait, i play thief/warrior both equal as much..

its not a bug to dump your malice on something and stack up why should it? if Anet doesnt want thiefs to do this add dmg to it.as for you dunno what ur talking about but most warriors have 2 blocks1 from shield and 1 from that new spellbreaker elite on adrenaline. Both are obvious but doesnt stops a thief from killing spellbreaker.

[X T D.6458]

Please do not use real world examples as if they are equal to something in a video game. You could be equally lethal by walking up to someone and attacking them with a large sword, but we do not have sword skills capable of downing people in 1-2 hits right? Sitting in stealth, and being able to stack up passive damage buffs is just more skillless gimmicky game play that anet needs to stop encouraging, and some players need to stop defending.

[Caedmon.6798]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:Yeah 21k is completely legit makes for healthy gameplay.

I really dont mind deadeye in general but i think no class should be able to pull of this damage with the use of one skill.

Then what are you doing here? Why haven't you started an anti-condi dmg crusade yet?

Warris used to be able with killshot where 20 was around max.That got heavily nerfed aswell,and not because were tanky and have acces to invulns and blocks,it just should not be possible for anyone to do this damage with the press of a single skill.

Sure, totally not because of that... And you say that based on what? Are you the dev? Did devs share with you some behind-the-scene informations?Or maybe you're another person that prefers to present their opinion/guesses as facts for the sake of making up another ""argument""?Because I think that being a glass cannon with 20k dmg and being a bunker with 20k dmg makes a huge difference.

"What im doing here" Was, giving an opinion.It was certainly not meant to start an argument with some hypocrite who's defending a single skill capable of doing 20 - 31kdmg out of the blue.

[Sobx.1758]

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:Yeah 21k is completely legit makes for healthy gameplay.

I really dont mind deadeye in general but i think no class should be able to pull of this damage with the use of one skill.

Then what are you doing here? Why haven't you started an anti-condi dmg crusade yet?

Warris used to be able with killshot where 20 was around max.That got heavily nerfed aswell,and not because were tanky and have acces to invulns and blocks,it just should not be possible for anyone to do this damage with the press of a single skill.

Sure, totally not because of that... And you say that based on what? Are you the dev? Did devs share with you some behind-the-scene informations?Or maybe you're another person that prefers to present their opinion/guesses as facts for the sake of making up another ""argument""?Because I think that being a glass cannon with 20k dmg and being a bunker with 20k dmg makes a huge difference.

"What im doing here" Was, giving an opinion.It was certainly not meant to start an argument with some hypocrite who's defending a single skill capable of doing 20 - 31kdmg out of the blue.

"hyporite" at which point exactly?Also try answering to the whole post instead of picking 3 words and focusing on them like that does the job.

[Reaper Alim.4176]

What? Thief got some more skills that one shots people out of the blue in GW2? Meh, just another day in GW2. Nothing to see or hear here, just move along.

That's exactly what ANet wanted for that class. To be able to kill people without offering them the chance to fight back. Come on guys, I thought yall was much smarter than this? Way to let me down again. :trollface:

[X T D.6458]

@Reaper Alim.4176 said:What? Thief got some more skills that one shots people out of the blue in GW2? Meh, just another day in GW2. Nothing to see or hear here, just move along.

That's exactly what ANet wanted for that class. To be able to kill people without offering them the chance to fight back. Come on guys, I thought yall was much smarter than this? Way to let me down again. :trollface:

Whoa wait a second here...are you saying that giving a broken class, that abuses a broken mechanic, high damage skills at max range when invisible in a competitive game mode was going to cause a problem?

Now who could have possibly predicted this, if not the all knowing balance devs, then WHOOOOO? Oh right...everyone else...

[Reaper Alim.4176]

@X T D.6458 said:

@"Reaper Alim.4176" said:What? Thief got some more skills that one shots people out of the blue in GW2? Meh, just another day in GW2. Nothing to see or hear here, just move along.

That's exactly what ANet wanted for that class. To be able to kill people without offering them the chance to fight back. Come on guys, I thought yall was much smarter than this? Way to let me down again. :trollface:

Whoa wait a second here...are you saying that giving a broken class, that abuses a broken mechanic, high damage skills at max range when invisible in a competitive game mode was going to cause a problem?

Now who could have possibly predicted this, if not the all knowing balance devs, then WHOOOOO? Oh right...everyone else...

Sorry but you confused me, when you said "competitive game mode". Where is the competitive game mode in this game? Last I checked the Ranked PvP mode in this game has a "Match Manipulation META" going on. And it's WvW mode has a "Server Stacking META" going on. I don't know about you. But METAs like those wouldn't be allowed within 100 meters of a competitive game mode. Guess cheaters have to have a place that they can say they are "competing" too, right?

I guess GW2 and it's players are special in those regards. But really, unless cheating is the new competition. Then GW2 has no competitive game modes. It just has artificial leaderboards and scoring systems, that has absolutely no merit behind them.

[sloe.5408]

I play DE and have great fun with it, but obviously DJ is over tuned. Further, having malice generated by a marked target buff damage against other (unmarked) targets is terrible design to the extent that it is often assumed to be a bug.

My ele was hit with a 25k DJ when I was not marked. It was of course a one-shot kill - full health (around 18k) to downed with no warning (ie, mark or preliminary damage). To argue that this is ok design and in any sense balanced is delusional. And generally when people start arguing with the "that's how it is in real life" angle to justify the mechanics of a fantasy mmorpg, they are about to lose the argument.

I would be happy to have DEs receive something to compensate, but one-shot kills with no warning (note: this can happen from stealth!) are poison and have to go.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@Reaper Alim.4176 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@Reaper Alim.4176 said:What? Thief got some more skills that one shots people out of the blue in GW2? Meh, just another day in GW2. Nothing to see or hear here, just move along.

That's exactly what ANet wanted for that class. To be able to kill people without offering them the chance to fight back. Come on guys, I thought yall was much smarter than this? Way to let me down again. :trollface:

Whoa wait a second here...are you saying that giving a broken class, that abuses a broken mechanic, high damage skills at max range when invisible in a competitive game mode was going to cause a problem?

Now who could have possibly predicted this, if not the all knowing balance devs, then WHOOOOO? Oh right...everyone else...

Sorry but you confused me, when you said

"competitive game mode".

Where is the competitive game mode in this game? Last I checked the Ranked PvP mode in this game has a "Match Manipulation META" going on. And it's WvW mode has a "Server Stacking META" going on. I don't know about you. But METAs like those wouldn't be allowed within 100 meters of a competitive game mode. Guess cheaters have to have a place that they can say they are "competing" too, right?

I guess GW2 and it's players are special in those regards. But really, unless cheating is the new competition. Then GW2 has no competitive game modes. It just has artificial leaderboards and scoring systems, that has absolutely no merit behind them.

I'm pretty sure that he was referring to people competing against each other when referring to a competitive game mode, not leaderboards or scoring, or any such nonsense. Not that getting 1-shot from stealth is competitive or anything...

[Chaba.5410]

@Inoki.6048 said:It would be a bug if you could do it on inanimate objects

I take it you haven't marked a gate in WvW yet.

[Reaper Alim.4176]

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Reaper Alim.4176 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@Reaper Alim.4176 said:What? Thief got some more skills that one shots people out of the blue in GW2? Meh, just another day in GW2. Nothing to see or hear here, just move along.

That's exactly what ANet wanted for that class. To be able to kill people without offering them the chance to fight back. Come on guys, I thought yall was much smarter than this? Way to let me down again. :trollface:

Whoa wait a second here...are you saying that giving a broken class, that abuses a broken mechanic, high damage skills at max range when invisible in a competitive game mode was going to cause a problem?

Now who could have possibly predicted this, if not the all knowing balance devs, then WHOOOOO? Oh right...everyone else...

Sorry but you confused me, when you said

"competitive game mode".

Where is the competitive game mode in this game? Last I checked the Ranked PvP mode in this game has a "Match Manipulation META" going on. And it's WvW mode has a "Server Stacking META" going on. I don't know about you. But METAs like those wouldn't be allowed within 100 meters of a competitive game mode. Guess cheaters have to have a place that they can say they are "competing" too, right?

I guess GW2 and it's players are special in those regards. But really, unless cheating is the new competition. Then GW2 has no competitive game modes. It just has artificial leaderboards and scoring systems, that has absolutely no merit behind them.

I'm pretty sure that he was referring to people competing against each other when referring to a competitive game mode, not leaderboards or scoring, or any such nonsense. Not that getting 1-shot from stealth is competitive or anything...

But by GW2 player base standard it is, apparently. Lol, I guess they are in the right and few places, this is considered competitive in. A pretty screwed version of competitive play if you asked me.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@Reaper Alim.4176 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Reaper Alim.4176 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@Reaper Alim.4176 said:What? Thief got some more skills that one shots people out of the blue in GW2? Meh, just another day in GW2. Nothing to see or hear here, just move along.

That's exactly what ANet wanted for that class. To be able to kill people without offering them the chance to fight back. Come on guys, I thought yall was much smarter than this? Way to let me down again. :trollface:

Whoa wait a second here...are you saying that giving a broken class, that abuses a broken mechanic, high damage skills at max range when invisible in a competitive game mode was going to cause a problem?

Now who could have possibly predicted this, if not the all knowing balance devs, then WHOOOOO? Oh right...everyone else...

Sorry but you confused me, when you said

"competitive game mode".

Where is the competitive game mode in this game? Last I checked the Ranked PvP mode in this game has a "Match Manipulation META" going on. And it's WvW mode has a "Server Stacking META" going on. I don't know about you. But METAs like those wouldn't be allowed within 100 meters of a competitive game mode. Guess cheaters have to have a place that they can say they are "competing" too, right?

I guess GW2 and it's players are special in those regards. But really, unless cheating is the new competition. Then GW2 has no competitive game modes. It just has artificial leaderboards and scoring systems, that has absolutely no merit behind them.

I'm pretty sure that he was referring to people competing against each other when referring to a competitive game mode, not leaderboards or scoring, or any such nonsense. Not that getting 1-shot from stealth is competitive or anything...

But by GW2 player base standard it is, apparently. Lol, I guess they are in the right and few places, this is considered competitive in. A pretty screwed version of competitive play if you asked me.

I don't really get what you are trying to say. My point was, that if there is the opportunity to fight other players, you can consider it competitive.

[snh.7091]

@Chaba.5410 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:It would be a bug if you could do it on inanimate objects

I take it you haven't marked a gate in WvW yet.

nope, believe it or not, I don't do that.

I run my own, customized build that also doesn't one-shoot ppl. It does 8 - 10k on average and I burst down ppl like any other "regular" class would. But I am also glass cannon. I changed some things to lower damage in favour of more stealth e.g. since I play more defensive / infiltration if needed (scouting perimeter, camp / tower defense and so on).

Oddly enough I meet power mesmers who take you down in one combo when you're constantly dazed which pretty much equals to our one-shot but that is in order for everyone.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Inoki.6048 said:Oddly enough I meet power mesmers who take you down in one combo when you're constantly dazed which pretty much equals to our one-shot but that is in order for everyone.No it doesnt. Thats far from using one skill and all of them have cooldowns.

Bit granted, can we give DJ 40s cd and end the argument? Since it basicly better than any elite skill. Surely that would make all thieves happy. While we are at it lets just add cooldown on all thief weapon skills so it pretty much equals our other classes.