About Deadeye, deal with it

[babazhook.6805]

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Sarrs.4831 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:That said, and this might be it, the wiki just says that a DE will "occasionally shout" a random line when using the skill. If that's true, I don't think we can count it as a reliable telegraph. I've no idea the percentage chance of hearing the audio.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death%27s_Judgment

The voice line may not be consistent but Deaths Judgment has a very distinct buzzing sound while it's charging. With your audio on it is very difficult to not notice an incoming DJ.

Not so sure that plays on the target. I've certainly never heard it, and I got one shot last night by someone super close.

If everything aligns for the DE, here's what I get as the target:

1. Quiet and tranquil scene
2. DE appears for split second, possibly out of camera view. Otherwise, just a thin laser.
3. Dead
4. Then I just respawn and carry on my way

I see very few people running around as a dedicated sniper, so I have to assume it's not a particularly rewarding way to play. It's effective vs roamers and small groups, but only if they hang around wherever the DE is.

Generally the Rifle part very situational. I tend to stick to p/p mostly but where the instances occur where I can use the rifle it very effective. As example enemy were hitting our Garri and there a gate opened at WG. I was up on that cliff that overlooks the gate and was picking off people arriving up that tunnel one by one as they arrived . A couple melee fighters from my side on the ground below would then finish them as I picked a new target.

It also useful for taking out siege if you defending or those manning it.

It much more a static style of fighting in that if the battlefield always moving it hard to setup and use to its fullest potential. In a more mobile battle you can mark and target a guy and just as you fire he moves out of range.

[Kassablanca.5821]

got hit by 24k DJ the other day

[Choppy.4183]

@Inoki.6048 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Sarrs.4831 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:That said, and this might be it, the wiki just says that a DE will "occasionally shout" a random line when using the skill. If that's true, I don't think we can count it as a reliable telegraph. I've no idea the percentage chance of hearing the audio.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death%27s_Judgment

The voice line may not be consistent but Deaths Judgment has a very distinct buzzing sound while it's charging. With your audio on it is very difficult to not notice an incoming DJ.

Not so sure that plays on the target. I've certainly never heard it, and I got one shot last night by someone super close.

If everything aligns for the DE, here's what I get as the target:

1. Quiet and tranquil scene
2. DE appears for split second, possibly out of camera view. Otherwise, just a thin laser.
3. Dead
4. Then I just respawn and carry on my way

I see very few people running around as a dedicated sniper, so I have to assume it's not a particularly rewarding way to play.

tbh it't not. I run a perma-stealth sniper build Rifle + D/P and the damage is significantly lower than heavy power builds with partial stealth. .

The damage in the single shot though... the one guy I'm tangling with in BG hits me for higher than 20k anytime he lands DJ.

The time he has to invest to get that shot (and forgone rewards for limited activity) must be nuts though.

@babazhook.6805It's a bit different than dodging a Headbutt because you don't see precast animation, or predictable behaviour, and (most importantly) you often won't even see the thief (just the thin laser) due to camera angle. It's mostly just a roamer bane type of build though.

[kash.9213]

@Lobsters.3869 said:If anything, there should be a warning which says you have been targeted and are about to take fatal damage if you do not act now. Which would allow a player atleast a second to react.

They should add some kind of a mark so you know when the distinct sound of a skill along with the unique effect with a cast time are on their way. Good thing you didn't get hit by Deaths Judgment since you mention getting hit by a hidden target.

[madamred.1463]

i guess cause i run reflect but i dont have much issues with deadeye

[Sobx.1758]

@kash.9213 said:They should add some kind of a mark so you know when the distinct sound of a skill along with the unique effect with a cast time are on their way. Good thing you didn't get hit by Deaths Judgment since you mention getting hit by a hidden target.

Good one :d

[babazhook.6805]

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Sarrs.4831 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:That said, and this might be it, the wiki just says that a DE will "occasionally shout" a random line when using the skill. If that's true, I don't think we can count it as a reliable telegraph. I've no idea the percentage chance of hearing the audio.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death%27s_Judgment

The voice line may not be consistent but Deaths Judgment has a very distinct buzzing sound while it's charging. With your audio on it is very difficult to not notice an incoming DJ.

Not so sure that plays on the target. I've certainly never heard it, and I got one shot last night by someone super close.

If everything aligns for the DE, here's what I get as the target:

1. Quiet and tranquil scene
2. DE appears for split second, possibly out of camera view. Otherwise, just a thin laser.
3. Dead
4. Then I just respawn and carry on my way

I see very few people running around as a dedicated sniper, so I have to assume it's not a particularly rewarding way to play.

tbh it't not. I run a perma-stealth sniper build Rifle + D/P and the damage is significantly lower than heavy power builds with partial stealth. .

The damage in the single shot though... the one guy I'm tangling with in BG hits me for higher than 20k anytime he lands DJ.

The time he has to invest to get that shot (and forgone rewards for limited activity) must be nuts though.

@"babazhook.6805"It's a bit different than dodging a Headbutt because you don't see precast animation, or predictable behaviour, and (most importantly) you often won't even see the thief (just the thin laser) due to camera angle. It's mostly just a roamer bane type of build though.

I am going to disagree with you here. DJ is in fact easier to avoid over the long run then is a headbutt or one of those other skills with that Character animation tell.

First and foremost a tell is a tell. I do NOT dodge when I see a warrior. I dodge when I see a warrior about to do one of those attacks that I want to avoid. In the case of the warrior I get this tell my looking at the warrior and recognizing the "tell". In the case of headbutt or a shield bash I get around .75 seconds which is plenty.

In the case of a DJ shot I get that same .75 NOT by seeing the theif because I do not have to. I just have to get the visual indication that a shot incoming which is that purple beam. I also get a second indication which an audible one with distinct sound. I have the same amount of time to dodge.

That I am aware a warrior there and might not be that a theif at range in hiding has little to do with this. Situational awareness is a totally different aspect of the game. As example I was once running to one of my camps to flip it when I was instant downed by a mesmer who attacked from behind me with a clone shatter spike because I was totally unaware I was being followed and he was behind me. Now had a PURPLE beam hit me in that instance .75 seconds before that mesmer attack and shatter i would have had a BETTER chance of dodging even though up to the time that purple beam hit I was unaware a mesmer behind me.

You spoke of FOV and the same applies here. If I am facing in one direction and someone comes up behind just out of my field of view , I will be unaware he even there. This means I will not see the tell of any incoming attack and will be much more susceptiple to the same. On the other hand were a DE thief to park behind me out of my FOV I would not have to see that thief or his cast animation to KNOW a shot incoming because even if he out of my FOV I WILL see that purple beam before the bullet strikes.

Obviously that indicator can get lost in all of the visual noise that might be going on at any given time but this is true of ANY skill

[Choppy.4183]

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Sarrs.4831 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:That said, and this might be it, the wiki just says that a DE will "occasionally shout" a random line when using the skill. If that's true, I don't think we can count it as a reliable telegraph. I've no idea the percentage chance of hearing the audio.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death%27s_Judgment

The voice line may not be consistent but Deaths Judgment has a very distinct buzzing sound while it's charging. With your audio on it is very difficult to not notice an incoming DJ.

Not so sure that plays on the target. I've certainly never heard it, and I got one shot last night by someone super close.

If everything aligns for the DE, here's what I get as the target:

1. Quiet and tranquil scene
2. DE appears for split second, possibly out of camera view. Otherwise, just a thin laser.
3. Dead
4. Then I just respawn and carry on my way

I see very few people running around as a dedicated sniper, so I have to assume it's not a particularly rewarding way to play.

tbh it't not. I run a perma-stealth sniper build Rifle + D/P and the damage is significantly lower than heavy power builds with partial stealth. .

The damage in the single shot though... the one guy I'm tangling with in BG hits me for higher than 20k anytime he lands DJ.

The time he has to invest to get that shot (and forgone rewards for limited activity) must be nuts though.

@"babazhook.6805"It's a bit different than dodging a Headbutt because you don't see precast animation, or predictable behaviour, and (most importantly) you often won't even see the thief (just the thin laser) due to camera angle. It's mostly just a roamer bane type of build though.

I am going to disagree with you here. DJ is in fact easier to avoid over the long run then is a headbutt or one of those other skills with that Character animation tell.

First and foremost a tell is a tell. I do NOT dodge when I see a warrior. I dodge when I see a warrior about to do one of those attacks that I want to avoid. In the case of the warrior I get this tell my looking at the warrior and recognizing the "tell". In the case of headbutt or a shield bash I get around .75 seconds which is plenty.

In the case of a DJ shot I get that same .75 NOT by seeing the theif because I do not have to. I just have to get the visual indication that a shot incoming which is that purple beam. I also get a second indication which an audible one with distinct sound. I have the same amount of time to dodge.

That I am aware a warrior there and might not be that a theif at range in hiding has little to do with this. Situational awareness is a totally different aspect of the game. As example I was once running to one of my camps to flip it when I was instant downed by a mesmer who attacked from behind me with a clone shatter spike because I was totally unaware I was being followed and he was behind me. Now had a PURPLE beam hit me in that instance .75 seconds before that mesmer attack and shatter i would have had a BETTER chance of dodging even though up to the time that purple beam hit I was unaware a mesmer behind me.

You spoke of FOV and the same applies here. If I am facing in one direction and someone comes up behind just out of my field of view , I will be unaware he even there. This means I will not see the tell of any incoming attack and will be much more susceptiple to the same. On the other hand were a DE thief to park behind me out of my FOV I would not have to see that thief or his cast animation to KNOW a shot incoming because even if he out of my FOV I WILL see that purple beam before the bullet strikes.

Obviously that indicator can get lost in all of the visual noise that might be going on at any given time but this is true of ANY skill

I suppose different people will have greater or lesser difficulty with different challenges. For me, I always know where the Berserker is and I know that I can create distance between us if I'm concerned about being on the business end of a Headbutt, and I also know that a Headbutt is generally not going to end me, and I can read the animations pretty clearly when I'm fighting (and the eye responds more to movement than to an on/off light). Finally, I can pressure the Berserker to keep him from using Headbutt effectively (particularly if I've got ranged attacks) because the warrior is visible throughout and the HB skill has considerably less range than DJ.

With Deadeye, I have to watch for a split second laser beam (I'm finding I get the audio less than 50% of the time), that could come from anywhere at any time, and the DE can cancel the shot if I try to mitigate. There also doesn't seem to be much counterplay to put any sort of pressure on the DE due to long stealth uptime plus Shadow Meld, so a successful dodge, block, invlun, etc. doesn't mean as much to the impending Death's Judgement. Also, though I've obviously not timed it, I don't think the laser shows for the full 3/4s cast time (seems like a 1/2s to me, but I can't say for sure).

That all said, it seems to me that a Berserker (even post nerf) would be a more useful and fun class to play than the sniper spec Deadeye. You'll get into more fights, you'll get more loot, and you'll contribute more to your server (fwiw). Sure, the DE is going to be able to one-shot me from time to time, especially if I'm busy fighting someone else (which won't happen vs a Berserker), but then I just respawn and go somewhere else. If I know the DE is there, I can also just leave, denying him the one kill that he sacrifices so much game time to get.

[Coldtart.4785]

@Inoki.6048 said:4k DJ hitting him straight, no protection and other defensive boons on him that could mitigate the damage, so you see it's very random. If they nerf it more the 4k that I did would be less and not worth playing.

So I did some calcs for this and the only way I could get the damage that low is by assuming extremely high armour on the guard (minstrel tier) and -10% damage food and the attack didn't crit. Either stop lying or stop using nomad gear.

[Matt Cole.2680]

I honestly don’t give a kitten about Deadeyes, I’m more concerned with the condi stuff, which I still live with but hope gets addressed in some way. Daredevil seems better anyways, maybe I’m just lucky to have not encountered enough DEs to actually stop having fun playing a game that’s meant to be fun. Win/lose, playing is what is fun, and when something takes away the fun in playing that’s when I just dislike something and hope it changes. DE hasn’t had that effect on me yet.

[Reverence.6915]

What a meme-y thread. And yet people are still feeding the trolls

[Fipmip.7219]

I thought people were just crying about de but learning that you can just mark anything to get the damage bonus.. pretty backwards.

[sephiroth.4217]

I just got my DE levelled up and having fun 1 shotting berserker zergling builds who stray too far from their zerg tail> @Lobsters.3869 said:

I'm an elementalist and I run around wvw with about 12000 hp. I have the least amount of armor in the game and I'll routinely get shot by a hidden target for 16-20,000 health points. I dare say that this skill is not working as intended when the direct damage is enough to instantly gib the characters in the game with the least amount of protection. If anything, there should be a warning which says you have been targeted and are about to take fatal damage if you do not act now. Which would allow a player atleast a second to react.

I'm supposed to be the direct damage wizard in the game I think. We deal the highest single target damage, or the tool-tip used to say so. The only way I can get over 20,000 damage in a single hit is if I'm spammed with might and then my only two spells which can hit for this much are Fire Grab which has a range of about 200 and Churning Earth which is channeled and has a range of about 600. At no point in this am I hidden from view and cannot be seen or targeted by an opponent.

In GW1, which was an utter balance fiasco, I realized that this game is not made to be balanced. Its a picturesque nice distraction.

12k hp sounds as if you run almost pure berserker or some other form of damage only build in which case you deserve to get hit that hard and drop that quick....

I play Weaver and none have hit me that hard but I also have some toughness and vitality in my build with a sprinkle of healing power.... It's WvW, not PvE.

[Shirlias.8104]

Ahahahahahahahah

Snipers irlWe do roleplay

Oh gawd

[Vambrace.8675]

Me and a guildy picked up a deadeye tail somehow. He followed us around the map only dropping stealth when well out of distance. Just followed us around the map for about an hour 1 shottting the first and 2 or 3 shotting the second... I reached him once for a hit before going down.

At one point I sat and watched him applying stealth over and over never popping out anywhere I could see...he was hoping my buddy would attempt a rez... when I ran out of time he was still dropping stealth fields around me camping my body... completely circumventing revealed.

If you want to solo grief small parties this is the specialization for you. Lets get this rolling and further degrade WvW. This spec is designed specifically to grief other players. Soon it will be common to run into teams of these guys downing entire havoc squads without being attacked in return....

Not really the makings of a good situation. I could easily play this spec I have everything I need but never play my thief none the less this set up because it feels cheap... I want to have a fight not insta down people without any exchange at all....

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Vambrace.8675 said:Me and a guildy picked up a deadeye tail somehow. He followed us around the map only dropping stealth when well out of distance. Just followed us around the map for about an hour 1 shottting the first and 2 or 3 shotting the second... I reached him once for a hit before going down.

At one point I sat and watched him applying stealth over and over never popping out anywhere I could see...he was hoping my buddy would attempt a rez... when I ran out of time he was still dropping stealth fields around me camping my body... completely circumventing revealed.

If you want to solo grief small parties this is the specialization for you. Lets get this rolling and further degrade WvW. This spec is designed specifically to grief other players. Soon it will be common to run into teams of these guys downing entire havoc squads without being attacked in return....

Not really the makings of a good situation. I could easily play this spec I have everything I need but never play my thief none the less this set up because it feels cheap... I want to have a fight not insta down people without any exchange at all....

You have no experience in dealing with this at all, you played the game for the deadeye, you let him follow you for an hour, get your ranged weapon out, take him to a point where you have the higher ground and you have pretty much shut his play down because 9/10 what ever he tries something will obstruct his shots and you can clearly see the lazer beam. This is just 1 example

[Choppy.4183]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Vambrace.8675 said:Me and a guildy picked up a deadeye tail somehow. He followed us around the map only dropping stealth when well out of distance. Just followed us around the map for about an hour 1 shottting the first and 2 or 3 shotting the second... I reached him once for a hit before going down.

At one point I sat and watched him applying stealth over and over never popping out anywhere I could see...he was hoping my buddy would attempt a rez... when I ran out of time he was still dropping stealth fields around me camping my body... completely circumventing revealed.

If you want to solo grief small parties this is the specialization for you. Lets get this rolling and further degrade WvW. This spec is designed specifically to grief other players. Soon it will be common to run into teams of these guys downing entire havoc squads without being attacked in return....

Not really the makings of a good situation. I could easily play this spec I have everything I need but never play my thief none the less this set up because it feels cheap... I want to have a fight not insta down people without any exchange at all....

You have no experience in dealing with this at all, you played the game for the deadeye, you let him follow you for an hour, get your ranged weapon out, take him to a point where you have the higher ground and you have pretty much shut his play down because 9/10 what ever he tries something will obstruct his shots and you can clearly see the lazer beam. This is just 1 example

I was the other guy :)

It was that he would respond to swords, go to traffic areas, etc, but being a slow time on the map he just had to respond to map call outs or general activity to find us.

So, if we rolled into a camp, we pretty much had to move on if we noticed him at any point or his SR. If we didn't, then whoever stayed was dead.

Earlier, I was fighting a determined SoS spellbreaker when I noticed the DE appear for a split second while setting up position, so I bailed on the SB. I probably had him thinking I was running away from him, until I got a bag 5s later from him, courtesy of the DE.

So I'm not sure that there's much counterplay beyond just leaving the area. As Vambrace said, the DE can maintain permanent stealth and the DE later told me he's packing Shadow Meld in case he gets revealed (which I imagine he's using as soon as he gets the DJ shot off).

Honestly, the game has had much worse stuff to deal with in the past, and I don't really mind the spec since almost nobody seems to run it. But I don't think the game has had anything that was so anti-fight either.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:You have no experience in dealing with this at all, you played the game for the deadeye, you let him follow you for an hour, get your ranged weapon out, take him to a point where you have the higher ground and you have pretty much shut his play down because 9/10 what ever he tries something will obstruct his shots and you can clearly see the lazer beam. This is just 1 exampleThis deadeye counter example would imply that the deadeye is a complete idiot, in which case chances to win are high regardless of having high ground or not.

Unless you mean that we automatically chop his legs off when he inevitable abuse teleports to go to said higher grounds.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:You have no experience in dealing with this at all, you played the game for the deadeye, you let him follow you for an hour, get your ranged weapon out, take him to a point where you have the higher ground and you have pretty much shut his play down because 9/10 what ever he tries something will obstruct his shots and you can clearly see the lazer beam. This is just 1 exampleThis deadeye counter example would imply that the deadeye is a complete idiot, in which case chances to win are high regardless of having high ground or not.

Unless you mean that we automatically chop his legs off when he inevitable abuse teleports to go to said higher grounds.

Who the hell let's 1 guy chase them all around the map for a hour with out even coming up with a tactic to deal with him, An idiot.

What I mean is people just can not act upon what they are up against and cry for nerf's. Use your imgination or something lol, use los - get into a tower - even run to skritt/centaurs - take him to the water, but do something :-/

[Burnfall.9573]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:

@Fipmip.7219 said:I disagree that deadeye sacrifices everything to deal big damage. they still have plenty of invis and a modicum of teleportation.

That heavily depends on your play style. I've seen folks going with less stealth in favour of dmg, me on my build won't reach above 15k, on average just around 8 - 10k dmg with DJ = far from a one-hit kill and I don't even rely on that to do the killing, but then again you'll never see me coming as I am perma-stealthed since I play as an infiltration unit and scout enemy movement.

thats strange i also do permastealth and i do hit on really tanky players 15-18k(with protection ontop of tons of thoughness) , on average 26-27k and on squishy i did hit up to over 43k.

What a meme-y thread.

And yet people are still feeding the trolls

First official thread report of thief in wvw- 5years ago (early gw2 release)

"Thiefs and WvW"https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/wuv/Thiefs-and-WvW

(This is coming from a new mesmer player making a case against thief. Watch suggestions flowing of how he/she can counter thief)

"So im curious if any have had thiefs kite 10 or so poeple around in WvW.Honestly saw a guy pop out of stealth for 4 seconds do some burst, go back to stealth for 4 seconds, pop out do some burst immediatly back to stealth rinse repeat. If he ever got down to half health simply would stealth up and come out full health.The guy was simply not killable even with a group of 8-10 (pub not talking to each other) trying to kill him.It seemed slightly OP that he could seriously go into stealth continously and he was never in any danger of dyeing when facing 10x the numbers. Unless you can get off a chain CC until he is dead there was no killing this guy. And that seems OP to me, considering his burst potential.So my question is this…. how do you counter a thief that can go into stealth at any time, multiple times, non stop? Is this a bug? if not what counter is there? Its very frustrating so im asking for help in a 1v1, 2v1 and xv1 situation. FYI this is coming from a Mesmer and i thougth i had a ton of survivablity but this was just insane."

"lol ima thief and i do this all the time. He’s either hybrid and does mediocre dmg w/ full set of exotic sets and an awesome pair of weapons, or pure burst dmg which sends fear into you, thus leaving u to hesitate. Mesmers are awesome, they are really good for everything.. You should prolly upgrade your armor or something with that mesmer set that lets you daze them for a longer amount of time and chain ur daze skills. Once doing so, any class including a thief is pretty much dead if they wanna solo u while there’s a group with u."

"Daze, Stun or knock down. If one of the allies in group could have pull this off the thief is as good as dead or to a point where he is forced to use his skills. If he’s forced to use the majority of his survivability skills, just chase him down"

(Lastly, here is an official thread report of memser using teleports to gain unfair advantages in wvw

Teleportation exploit in WvW?https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/wuv/Teleportation-exploit-in-WvW

You see, this isn't trolling... this is a serious problem that has gone to far.

Once again, players are asking for is for a fair competitive healthy challenge.(healthy challenge= Have Fun)(competitive-=Take Risks and Learn From Mistakes)

That's all

[apharma.3741]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:You have no experience in dealing with this at all, you played the game for the deadeye, you let him follow you for an hour, get your ranged weapon out, take him to a point where you have the higher ground and you have pretty much shut his play down because 9/10 what ever he tries something will obstruct his shots and you can clearly see the lazer beam. This is just 1 exampleThis deadeye counter example would imply that the deadeye is a complete idiot, in which case chances to win are high regardless of having high ground or not.

Unless you mean that we automatically chop his legs off when he inevitable abuse teleports to go to said higher grounds.

Who the hell let's 1 guy chase them all around the map for a hour with out even coming up with a tactic to deal with him, An idiot.

What I mean is people just can not act upon what they are up against and cry for nerf's. Use your imgination or something lol, use los - get into a tower - even run to skritt/centaurs - take him to the water, but do something :-/

You do realise you’re pretty much advocating running away from any and all possible fights in case the DE is around and hiding in towers. What next sit on ACs all day to use the 4 skill for a lucky reveal.

While most people would WP and go to the other side of the map there’s 2 things to think about.

1) This kind of tactic might be good at preventing you from being a lootbag but it doesn’t help 1-2 people stop camps being flipped.2) You are most likely to run into the DE again at some point, whether it be in 5 minutes or 10 minutes.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@apharma.3741 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:You have no experience in dealing with this at all, you played the game for the deadeye, you let him follow you for an hour, get your ranged weapon out, take him to a point where you have the higher ground and you have pretty much shut his play down because 9/10 what ever he tries something will obstruct his shots and you can clearly see the lazer beam. This is just 1 exampleThis deadeye counter example would imply that the deadeye is a complete idiot, in which case chances to win are high regardless of having high ground or not.

Unless you mean that we automatically chop his legs off when he inevitable abuse teleports to go to said higher grounds.

Who the hell let's 1 guy chase them all around the map for a hour with out even coming up with a tactic to deal with him, An idiot.

What I mean is people just can not act upon what they are up against and cry for nerf's. Use your imgination or something lol, use los - get into a tower - even run to skritt/centaurs - take him to the water, but do something :-/

You do realise you’re pretty much advocating running away from any and all possible fights in case the DE is around and hiding in towers. What next sit on ACs all day to use the 4 skill for a lucky reveal.

While most people would WP and go to the other side of the map there’s 2 things to think about.

1) This kind of tactic might be good at preventing you from being a lootbag but it doesn’t help 1-2 people stop camps being flipped.2) You are most likely to run into the DE again at some point, whether it be in 5 minutes or 10 minutes.

Sure, if you used my example above and from south camp to skritt, then yes. I am trying to say find some obstacle or obstruction and put the ball back in the dead eyes court.

[babazhook.6805]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Vambrace.8675 said:Me and a guildy picked up a deadeye tail somehow. He followed us around the map only dropping stealth when well out of distance. Just followed us around the map for about an hour 1 shottting the first and 2 or 3 shotting the second... I reached him once for a hit before going down.

At one point I sat and watched him applying stealth over and over never popping out anywhere I could see...he was hoping my buddy would attempt a rez... when I ran out of time he was still dropping stealth fields around me camping my body... completely circumventing revealed.

If you want to solo grief small parties this is the specialization for you. Lets get this rolling and further degrade WvW. This spec is designed specifically to grief other players. Soon it will be common to run into teams of these guys downing entire havoc squads without being attacked in return....

Not really the makings of a good situation. I could easily play this spec I have everything I need but never play my thief none the less this set up because it feels cheap... I want to have a fight not insta down people without any exchange at all....

You have no experience in dealing with this at all, you played the game for the deadeye, you let him follow you for an hour, get your ranged weapon out, take him to a point where you have the higher ground and you have pretty much shut his play down because 9/10 what ever he tries something will obstruct his shots and you can clearly see the lazer beam. This is just 1 example

I was the other guy :)

It was that he would respond to swords, go to traffic areas, etc, but being a slow time on the map he just had to respond to map call outs or general activity to find us.

So, if we rolled into a camp, we pretty much had to move on if we noticed him at any point or his SR. If we didn't, then whoever stayed was dead.

Earlier, I was fighting a determined SoS spellbreaker when I noticed the DE appear for a split second while setting up position, so I bailed on the SB. I probably had him thinking I was running away from him, until I got a bag 5s later from him, courtesy of the DE.

So I'm not sure that there's much counterplay beyond just leaving the area. As Vambrace said, the DE can maintain permanent stealth and the DE later told me he's packing Shadow Meld in case he gets revealed (which I imagine he's using as soon as he gets the DJ shot off).

Honestly, the game has had much worse stuff to deal with in the past, and I don't really mind the spec since almost nobody seems to run it. But I don't think the game has had anything that was so anti-fight either.

Why are you not traiting sight beyond sight and or a taunt or mageborn tether if so worried about a thief and stealth? (I assume you on your warrior)Mageborn tether stays attached even if the enemy used Meld to remove the reveal . It then pulses another reveal. I have met some few warriors that used this for a kill on my own DE and have used it myself. Obviously you need a burst to land to get it to kick in but certain bursts will hit all targets nearby even if they stealthed.

Other classes have reveals as well so if as example a warrior running with an engie , the two in conjunction can rotate reveals to overwhelm the Deadeyes ability to stealth. If it an inability to close to range to use said skills before the DE breaks off and flees, well that just the nature of kiting and part of any thief's forte, that being the ability to disengage from a fight .

[apharma.3741]

@babazhook.6805 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:You have no experience in dealing with this at all, you played the game for the deadeye, you let him follow you for an hour, get your ranged weapon out, take him to a point where you have the higher ground and you have pretty much shut his play down because 9/10 what ever he tries something will obstruct his shots and you can clearly see the lazer beam. This is just 1 exampleThis deadeye counter example would imply that the deadeye is a complete idiot, in which case chances to win are high regardless of having high ground or not.

Unless you mean that we automatically chop his legs off when he inevitable abuse teleports to go to said higher grounds.

Who the hell let's 1 guy chase them all around the map for a hour with out even coming up with a tactic to deal with him, An idiot.

What I mean is people just can not act upon what they are up against and cry for nerf's. Use your imgination or something lol, use los - get into a tower - even run to skritt/centaurs - take him to the water, but do something :-/

You do realise you’re pretty much advocating running away from any and all possible fights in case the DE is around and hiding in towers. What next sit on ACs all day to use the 4 skill for a lucky reveal.

While most people would WP and go to the other side of the map there’s 2 things to think about.

1) This kind of tactic might be good at preventing you from being a lootbag but it doesn’t help 1-2 people stop camps being flipped.2) You are most likely to run into the DE again at some point, whether it be in 5 minutes or 10 minutes.

There a number of classes with reveal. A warrior has several skills that can apply revealed. I have yet to encounter a single warrior using mageborne tether as example and I use that on my own and have killed thieves with it . if two classes run together and dependent on the classes, they should between them have enough in the way of reveals to get around Shadowmeld.

See, this is where you’re at best downplaying the issue and at worst completely naive when it comes to other classes, I’ll assume it’s the first. Out of all the reveal skills in the game 4 out of 9 need a target to actually reveal the enemy, which you can’t do if they’re in stealth 100% of the time they’re in the 1200 range of 3 of those skills. Only sick em has a chance of taking a dead eye by surprise at 2000 range but we’re assuming this dead eye is at least competent enough to know shadow meld will negate that and then to camp stealth again.

Of the other 5 skills and 2 traits you must either be within 360-600 range of the dead eye or to actually hit them. To be clear the people that were complaining were saying that the dead eye was essentially stalking them at max range and staying in stealth at any range where he might be hit. Magebane tether also requires you to hit with a burst skill, many core warrior burst skills have decent tells and usually 1/2s cast or longer so again, assuming we’re not fighting someone who is completely clueless magebane won’t help.

So again we have a DE sitting in stealth 100% of the time at 900-1500 range where no warrior can get to in the time taken to stealth through BP and cannot be revealed through ranged reveal options as guess what? No target. So they go into towers and sit there or WP somewhere else having to avoid fights and playing, this is not a build and play style that should be encouraged and I honestly cannot believe anyone offering that advise can believe DE in its current form is good for the game. DE needs a big rework so it is fun for both the DE and the person fighting them without being a build that discourages people leaving the safety of towers. It’s like blooming perma stealth condi thief all over again but this time with 1500 range!

The only saving grace is that there isn’t that many of them around atm as everyone prefers to be an immortal SB.

[Sobx.1758]

@Fipmip.7219 said:I thought people were just crying about de but learning that you can just mark anything to get the damage bonus.. pretty backwards.

Yeah and you have WHOLE 5 seconds to do it or you need to reapply the mark. Truly gamebreaking.