About Deadeye, deal with it

[snh.7091]

@BadMed.3846 said:26k surprise hits from an invisible state! And you say "deal with it"?

I say deal with it because the class should be a strong damage dealer. If you take the damage away (I hate to repeat myself and also what others already iterated many times before) it becomes completely useless. Also consider the fact that ALL of our attacks can be dodged, blocked and reflected (we have no unblockables with the exception of traps that no one uses). You my friend clearly have a l2p issue, because I often meet with players that even though I surprise from stealth manage to respond quickly with dodging = immune to all that damage. That is really all it takes since the game is like Matrix = everyone can dodge bullets (silly but true).

Funny that no one here seems to have an issue with Warrior's perma damage immunity, reflects, regen, massive power, great mobility, resistance and I could go on, or Scourges touching you exactly twice to land 20 stacks of 5+ condis that burst you down before you are able to use a healing skill.

[Baldrick.8967]

Having that sort of damage from invisible is just stupid. It's bad pvp design.

Taking your comparison a little further, once a sniper fires they are revealed if anyone happens to be looking towards where they fired from, unless they are deep into cover and took ages getting there, so your comparison about RL snipers is stupid too- how many swings of an axe would it take to kill someone in RL? There is no proper reveal in this game, stealth is just a bad mechanic in a pvp game unless it has heavy penalties for use, like, say, 90% movement penalty. How many RL snipers run around like greased lightning?

There are way too many skills that do way too much damage in wvw now, as well as all the barriers, reflects, boon strip, blah, blah, that makes any large scale fight a big mess and one mis step means you're dead with no chance of recovery.

[Odokuro.5049]

For a Deadeye to do any real serious damage, they need to charge their Malice to full, and use Rifle #4. On average it takes around 15 seconds to fully charge up Malice then make sure they are kneeled to take full advantage of this skill. A lot of the popular roaming/small group builds out there can gank quicker then that, not to mention the condi bombs people are capable of doing.

[Sobx.1758]

@Baldrick.8967 said:Taking your comparison a little further, once a sniper fires they are revealed if anyone happens to be looking towards where they fired from, unless they are deep into cover and took ages getting there

Except DE gets revealed if he uses DJ and you literally have a laser beam comming from his rifle to your character in case you still couldn't say where he's shooting from.So what are you even talking about here?

unless it has heavy penalties for use, like, say, 90% movement penalty. How many RL snipers run around like greased lightning?

Go try playing DE and then come back with your """arguments""", because right now you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

There are way too many skills that do way too much damage in wvw now, as well as all the barriers, reflects, boon strip, blah, blah, that makes any large scale fight a big mess and one mis step means you're dead with no chance of recovery.

Large scale fight was always a mess. And it will be.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

Dosnt DJ also have a distinctive, loud sound that only the target can hear, or does everyone hear it too?

[Mez.4216]

Thieves haven't been this annoying since the early days of perma-stealth. It's nice to need to have my wits about me again whilst I'm roaming.

Besides, they're not hard to kill, a well-timed reflect should suffice. And if you're not running reflects, or you haven't got any, then you're doing it wrong. Especially given the current Pirate Ship-Meta.

[Choppy.4183]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Dosnt DJ also have a distinctive, loud sound that only the target can hear, or does everyone hear it too?

It seems to be unreliable. As per my last post, the audio didn't play at least twice. I've no idea why.

[Rhanoa.3960]

@Inoki.6048 said:Observe the irony,

the amount of threads about something that should be obvious - that a sniper should be lethal, period - is astounding. Now, I had to edit this post because clearly far too many people either miss the point behind the class, or are just plain clueless about it believing certain things to be bugged.

• first of, building up Malice stacks on other living targets by *marking them isn't a bug. It would be a bug if you could do it on inanimate objects, thus it's perfectly fine to build up force to be used against a target because you're aiming for that one-hit-kill that your class should be known for.
• personally I have never one-shot a person with skill 1 as some believe it can be done (I can't see how it can, as skill 1 doesn't harness the power of all malice stacks for a single blow, if it does, that could be a bug because this should be made possible only by DJ according to its description)

*as far as marking is concerned, I would be fine if this would be changed to single target, make the mark invisible to the marked target and speed up the malice building process. Naturally a marked target should never know it's marked.

Why I said that snipers should be lethal as they are in real life:

this is an MMO. What we do here is role play.

^ by that definition if you assume the role of character for its specific traits you expect it to feel that way. The game experience would naturally resemble something that you're familiar with (doesn't have to be first-hand experience) = why you chose to play that class.

As it was mentioned by some people who get it - we, Deadeyes, have to sacrifice everything in order to deal the damage we do. We have next to zero mobility, our defence is almost non-existent, and our condi cleanse is........ weak would be an appropriate word if you take all the necessary traits, but heavily depends on one's play style. Our single damage output is raw damage, as we don't deal condition damage. Taking that away from the class renders it obsolete.

So while in real life snipers are a force to be reckoned with, the ultimate damage dealers, that cannot happen in a game even though in real life that is natural. For some unicorn reason it cannot.

...but a Scourge kills you instantly landing a trillion of condis on you by touching you once, perhaps twice is enough - that seems to be quite in order because we have yet to see a significant nerf and I won't even bother going down the road of trying to explain how utterly broken Spellbreakers are and why so many people exploit it.

To sum it up, the intent here never was to spread hate, but to point to the fact that this audience isn't prepared for a class that should be able to do one-hit kills while that is literally what defines it. I play a Deadeye, but I would be perfectly fine with the fact it being removed from the game, along with Dragonhunters ofc and some other ridiculous specs that just don't make any sense.

My message to the developers: if you're gonna do something, either do it right, or just scrap it.

Just my few cents........ I don't care about hate posts, someone had to say this.

Last time I checked there are no Dragonhunters, Spellweavers, or Scourges to compare to Snipers in Real Life.

[DemonSeed.3528]

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Dosnt DJ also have a distinctive, loud sound that only the target can hear, or does everyone hear it too?

It seems to be unreliable. As per my last post, the audio didn't play at least twice. I've no idea why.It is possible this can be attributed to lag/desync - that is all I can think of. Have you got surround audio by any chance (and if so how many channels)? Just a shot in the dark.

@Sobx.1758 said:

Except DE gets revealed if he uses DJ and you literally have a laser beam comming from his rifle to your character in case you still couldn't say where he's shooting from.

I still wouldn't mind a big ass laserbeam like prime light beam on holosmith.

@Baldrick.8967 said:unless it has heavy penalties for use, like, say, 90% movement penalty. How many RL snipers run around like greased lightning?Kneeling and being immobile is quite a bit of a penalty already. Death's Retreat costs 5 ini, but if the DE is taking most dmg stuff and leaving out trickery then there is even less initiative to use, and not many dodges of course. They won't be taking acro either so there's no swiftness generation or extra ini gen. It's slow and you will be in trouble for most of the time even if you took shadow arts, someone just aoe a fart near you and you will die lol (assuming full glass and dmg taken). Also don't do full glass if you got a ping above 220-250ms :P (hello aus/nz/sea/ocx)

[Choppy.4183]

@DemonSeed.3528 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Dosnt DJ also have a distinctive, loud sound that only the target can hear, or does everyone hear it too?

It seems to be unreliable. As per my last post, the audio didn't play at least twice. I've no idea why.It is possible this can be attributed to lag/desync - that is all I can think of. Have you got surround audio by any chance (and if so how many channels)? Just a shot in the dark.

Didn't notice any lag, and I was using decent headphones on a Ghostpro laptop.

I was setting up a cata in a bush (as one does) with nobody around except a guy in my party and the DE that neither of us saw. Had the split second laser that I could barely see through the bush, and then dead.

Happened a couple more times where the skill didn't play the sound, but I was more actively watching for the laser once I knew he was around.

Perhaps it's just one if those weird bugs that happens from time to time. I'm sure if it starts happening a lot, people will start to complain (about no audio, they'll always find cause to complain generally). :)

[Fipmip.7219]

@Choppy.4183 said:

@DemonSeed.3528 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Dosnt DJ also have a distinctive, loud sound that only the target can hear, or does everyone hear it too?

It seems to be unreliable. As per my last post, the audio didn't play at least twice. I've no idea why.It is possible this can be attributed to lag/desync - that is all I can think of. Have you got surround audio by any chance (and if so how many channels)? Just a shot in the dark.

Didn't notice any lag, and I was using decent headphones on a Ghostpro laptop.

I was setting up a cata in a bush (as one does) with nobody around except a guy in my party and the DE that neither of us saw. Had the split second laser that I could barely see through the bush, and then dead.

Happened a couple more times where the skill didn't play the sound, but I was more actively watching for the laser once I knew he was around.

Perhaps it's just one if those weird bugs that happens from time to time. I'm sure if it starts happening a lot, people will start to complain (about no audio, they'll

always

find cause to complain generally). :)

was there no mark?

[DemonSeed.3528]

@Choppy.4183 said:Perhaps it's just one if those weird bugs that happens from time to time.Might be. I'll keep an eye out for it but it's probably random like you said. Something unrelated, but sometimes I get lots of sounds cut out when a zerg approaches hehe. I use it like a spidey sense.

[Choppy.4183]

@Fipmip.7219 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@DemonSeed.3528 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:Dosnt DJ also have a distinctive, loud sound that only the target can hear, or does everyone hear it too?

It seems to be unreliable. As per my last post, the audio didn't play at least twice. I've no idea why.It is possible this can be attributed to lag/desync - that is all I can think of. Have you got surround audio by any chance (and if so how many channels)? Just a shot in the dark.

Didn't notice any lag, and I was using decent headphones on a Ghostpro laptop.

I was setting up a cata in a bush (as one does) with nobody around except a guy in my party and the DE that neither of us saw. Had the split second laser that I could barely see through the bush, and then dead.

Happened a couple more times where the skill didn't play the sound, but I was more actively watching for the laser once I knew he was around.

Perhaps it's just one if those weird bugs that happens from time to time. I'm sure if it starts happening a lot, people will start to complain (about no audio, they'll

always

find cause to complain generally). :)

was there no mark?

No, as noted throughout the forums, you don't actually have to mark your target to get malice stacks (you can mark mosquitoes, bunnies, other players, npcs, and even walls). It's normally the thing to do if you want to be a super sneaky sniper. Even when you do that, using Death's Judgement often has the DE saying something to give you a tell beyond the 3/4s laser sight.

That said, and this might be it, the wiki just says that a DE will "occasionally shout" a random line when using the skill. If that's true, I don't think we can count it as a reliable telegraph. I've no idea the percentage chance of hearing the audio.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death%27s_Judgment

[Coldtart.4785]

@Inoki.6048 said:I say deal with it because the class should be a strong damage dealer. If you take the damage away (I hate to repeat myself and also what others already iterated many times before) it becomes completely useless.

A 1200 range weapon with might stacking and all the mobility of thief is useless. This is what thief players actually believe, apparently.

Also consider the fact that ALL of our attacks can be dodged, blocked and reflected

Thief having to play by the same rules as everyone else is such a travesty.

Funny that no one here seems to have an issue with Warrior's perma damage immunity, reflects, regen, massive power, great mobility, resistance and I could go on, or Scourges touching you exactly twice to land 20 stacks of 5+ condis that burst you down before you are able to use a healing skill.

You are more mobile than a warrior and have range while most warriors are double melee. You should not even be getting touched by anything that isn't a reflected shot. You are also able to outrange scourges and they have no mobility. You have all the tools you need to, in your own words, deal with it.

[Sarrs.4831]

@Choppy.4183 said:That said, and this might be it, the wiki just says that a DE will "occasionally shout" a random line when using the skill. If that's true, I don't think we can count it as a reliable telegraph. I've no idea the percentage chance of hearing the audio.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death%27s_JudgmentThe voice line may not be consistent but Deaths Judgment has a very distinct buzzing sound while it's charging. With your audio on it is very difficult to not notice an incoming DJ.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Coldtart.4785 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:I say deal with it because the class should be a strong damage dealer. If you take the damage away (I hate to repeat myself and also what others already iterated many times before) it becomes completely useless.

A 1200 range weapon with might stacking and all the mobility of thief is useless. This is what thief players actually believe, apparently.

Also consider the fact that ALL of our attacks can be dodged, blocked and reflected

Thief having to play by the same rules as everyone else is such a travesty.

Funny that no one here seems to have an issue with Warrior's perma damage immunity, reflects, regen, massive power, great mobility, resistance and I could go on, or Scourges touching you exactly twice to land 20 stacks of 5+ condis that burst you down before you are able to use a healing skill.

You are more mobile than a warrior and have range while most warriors are double melee. You should not even be getting touched by anything that isn't a reflected shot. You are also able to outrange scourges and they have no mobility. You have all the tools you need to, in your own words, deal with it.

Actually no, only shadow step is the only thing worth a mention in terms of mobilty. Deaths retreat is a very bugged skill that will port you back, no distance at all if a small pebble is in the way, not to mention it's something like 5 initiave per useage. Scourge's though is true though I have seen some use their own portal and manage to get some nasty condi ticks off. Double melee warriors with sw/x gs can easy keep up with a deadeye, don't confuse deredevil with deadeye, the freedom they have is a joke compared to all classs let alone dead eye.

[DemonSeed.3528]

@"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:Actually no, only shadow step is the only thing worth a mention in terms of mobilty. Deaths retreat is a very bugged skill that will port you back, no distance at all if a small pebble is in the way, not to mention it's something like 5 initiave per useage. Scourge's though is true though I have seen some use their own portal and manage to get some nasty condi ticks off. Double melee warriors with sw/x gs can easy keep up with a deadeye, don't confuse deredevil with deadeye, the freedom they have is a joke compared to all classs let alone dead eye.

Speaking of which, if you have lag of any sorts like I do, any teleportation/leap skills randomly gives only about half distance (it's horrendous I know, if you get it really bad, you will basically catch up to where you are supposed to be and you can be teleported towards the thing you want to get away from). I am also unsure if "Lock Ground Target at Maximum Skill Range" contributes any to that because I've seen a post floating around about it not giving max distance on a tp/leap skill but I can't remember if that was resolved/explained already, maybe someone here knows.

[Lobsters.3869]

I'm an elementalist and I run around wvw with about 12000 hp. I have the least amount of armor in the game and I'll routinely get shot by a hidden target for 16-20,000 health points. I dare say that this skill is not working as intended when the direct damage is enough to instantly gib the characters in the game with the least amount of protection. If anything, there should be a warning which says you have been targeted and are about to take fatal damage if you do not act now. Which would allow a player atleast a second to react.

I'm supposed to be the direct damage wizard in the game I think. We deal the highest single target damage, or the tool-tip used to say so. The only way I can get over 20,000 damage in a single hit is if I'm spammed with might and then my only two spells which can hit for this much are Fire Grab which has a range of about 200 and Churning Earth which is channeled and has a range of about 600. At no point in this am I hidden from view and cannot be seen or targeted by an opponent.

In GW1, which was an utter balance fiasco, I realized that this game is not made to be balanced. Its a picturesque nice distraction.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Lobsters.3869 said:I'm an elementalist and I run around wvw with about 12000 hp. I have the least amount of armor in the game and I'll routinely get shot by a hidden target for 16-20,000 health points. I dare say that this skill is not working as intended when the direct damage is enough to instantly gib the characters in the game with the least amount of protection. If anything, there should be a warning which says you have been targeted and are about to take fatal damage if you do not act now. Which would allow a player atleast a second to react.

I'm supposed to be the direct damage wizard in the game I think. We deal the highest single target damage, or the tool-tip used to say so. The only way I can get over 20,000 damage in a single hit is if I'm spammed with might and then my only two spells which can hit for this much are Fire Grab which has a range of about 200 and Churning Earth which is channeled and has a range of about 600. At no point in this am I hidden from view and cannot be seen or targeted by an opponent.

In GW1, which was an utter balance fiasco, I realized that this game is not made to be balanced. Its a picturesque nice distraction.

All true.

And your churning earth hits 5 targets for that damage, while fire grab also hits five.

Not a good comparison.

[Choppy.4183]

@Sarrs.4831 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:That said, and this might be it, the wiki just says that a DE will "occasionally shout" a random line when using the skill. If that's true, I don't think we can count it as a reliable telegraph. I've no idea the percentage chance of hearing the audio.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death%27s_Judgment

The voice line may not be consistent but Deaths Judgment has a very distinct buzzing sound while it's charging. With your audio on it is very difficult to not notice an incoming DJ.

Not so sure that plays on the target. I've certainly never heard it, and I got one shot last night by someone super close.

If everything aligns for the DE, here's what I get as the target:

1. Quiet and tranquil scene
2. DE appears for split second, possibly out of camera view. Otherwise, just a thin laser.
3. Dead
4. Then I just respawn and carry on my way

I see very few people running around as a dedicated sniper, so I have to assume it's not a particularly rewarding way to play. It's effective vs roamers and small groups, but only if they hang around wherever the DE is.

[snh.7091]

@Choppy.4183 said:

@Sarrs.4831 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:That said, and this might be it, the wiki just says that a DE will "occasionally shout" a random line when using the skill. If that's true, I don't think we can count it as a reliable telegraph. I've no idea the percentage chance of hearing the audio.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death%27s_Judgment

The voice line may not be consistent but Deaths Judgment has a very distinct buzzing sound while it's charging. With your audio on it is very difficult to not notice an incoming DJ.

Not so sure that plays on the target. I've certainly never heard it, and I got one shot last night by someone super close.

If everything aligns for the DE, here's what I get as the target:

1. Quiet and tranquil scene
2. DE appears for split second, possibly out of camera view. Otherwise, just a thin laser.
3. Dead
4. Then I just respawn and carry on my way

I see very few people running around as a dedicated sniper, so I have to assume it's not a particularly rewarding way to play.

tbh it't not. I run a perma-stealth sniper build Rifle + D/P and the damage is significantly lower than heavy power builds with partial stealth. One or two days ago I went to WvW against a guardian who was standing in front of me, range up to 1k, no object blocking him, no Aegis as I Iet another player attack him to take away his Aegis, I had 7 stacks of Malice going for that killshot but the resulting damage was appaling. 4k DJ hitting him straight, no protection and other defensive boons on him that could mitigate the damage, so you see it's very random. If they nerf it more the 4k that I did would be less and not worth playing.

I tried the typical roleplay on red border hiding on top of camps sniping at people from above, but the range is faint compared to what it should be that it makes no use to play as sniper, so I might just call it and play something else.

One thing I'm sure we can all agree is that this game can be very frustrating and perhaps it's the frustration that keeps us all going, making us shake our heads, facepalm but still giving it another shot. I'm slowly losing all desire to play though as I don't like the direction the game is heading and the choices that have been made with this expansion overall, including my class.

[lilypop.7819]

Does seem to be trolling the pvp playerbase somewhat; try PvP with two DEs sniping and disappearing together - absolute joke, most the time you don't even get a single return hit.

[DemonSeed.3528]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Lobsters.3869 said:I'm an elementalist and I run around wvw with about 12000 hp. I have the least amount of armor in the game and I'll routinely get shot by a hidden target for 16-20,000 health points. I dare say that this skill is not working as intended when the direct damage is enough to instantly gib the characters in the game with the least amount of protection. If anything, there should be a warning which says you have been targeted and are about to take fatal damage if you do not act now. Which would allow a player atleast a second to react.

I'm supposed to be the direct damage wizard in the game I think. We deal the highest single target damage, or the tool-tip used to say so. The only way I can get over 20,000 damage in a single hit is if I'm spammed with might and then my only two spells which can hit for this much are Fire Grab which has a range of about 200 and Churning Earth which is channeled and has a range of about 600. At no point in this am I hidden from view and cannot be seen or targeted by an opponent.

In GW1, which was an utter balance fiasco, I realized that this game is not made to be balanced. Its a picturesque nice distraction.

All true.

And your churning earth hits 5 targets for that damage, while fire grab also hits five.

Not a good comparison.

Aye, should check out cellofrags vids, they are a blast :)

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Lobsters.3869 said:I'm an elementalist and I run around wvw with about 12000 hp. I have the least amount of armor in the game and I'll routinely get shot by a hidden target for 16-20,000 health points. I dare say that this skill is not working as intended when the direct damage is enough to instantly gib the characters in the game with the least amount of protection. If anything, there should be a warning which says you have been targeted and are about to take fatal damage if you do not act now. Which would allow a player atleast a second to react.

I'm supposed to be the direct damage wizard in the game I think. We deal the highest single target damage, or the tool-tip used to say so. The only way I can get over 20,000 damage in a single hit is if I'm spammed with might and then my only two spells which can hit for this much are Fire Grab which has a range of about 200 and Churning Earth which is channeled and has a range of about 600. At no point in this am I hidden from view and cannot be seen or targeted by an opponent.

In GW1, which was an utter balance fiasco, I realized that this game is not made to be balanced. Its a picturesque nice distraction.

Last night some of us was getting hit for 7k meteor showers and or, 7k+ plasma ball (fire/air staff) dual attack... This was vs 3300armoured 24k health front line mele classes, built to tank. This is from a full marurder staff weaver with 18k health, this also requires no real set up, seconds to cast and you can do it safely isnide your zerg. The only hard part is knowing how to position your self.

[babazhook.6805]

@Lobsters.3869 said:I'm an elementalist and I run around wvw with about 12000 hp. I have the least amount of armor in the game and I'll routinely get shot by a hidden target for 16-20,000 health points. I dare say that this skill is not working as intended when the direct damage is enough to instantly gib the characters in the game with the least amount of protection. If anything, there should be a warning which says you have been targeted and are about to take fatal damage if you do not act now. Which would allow a player atleast a second to react.

I'm supposed to be the direct damage wizard in the game I think. We deal the highest single target damage, or the tool-tip used to say so. The only way I can get over 20,000 damage in a single hit is if I'm spammed with might and then my only two spells which can hit for this much are Fire Grab which has a range of about 200 and Churning Earth which is channeled and has a range of about 600. At no point in this am I hidden from view and cannot be seen or targeted by an opponent.

In GW1, which was an utter balance fiasco, I realized that this game is not made to be balanced. Its a picturesque nice distraction.

There is a warning before you are hit. There a distinct sound and a laser beam that shows hitting you before the bullet arrives.. You haveabout .75 seconds to dodge. When headbutt and shield bash were both raised to .75 seconds activation time it was claimed this made the skills to easy to dodge. Dodge the one attack and that thief burned 6 (+1) ini. He might have one more he can get off but if you dodged one you should be aware he around wherein you can use another dodge, a block, a reflect. (swirling winds as example shuts that thief down for 6 seconds pushing him to the point where malice runs out and has to be regained)

if it becomes too "easy" to avoid damage then the spec DE with rifle itself becomes useless. It buitl around getting that big hit in.