WVW stale Minstril blobs Everywhere!

[God.2708]

There is not enough boon hate on individual builds which results in players whining*.

Again, I don't have any issues removing boons and killing these zergs, but I have minions to call upon and order around. I would recommend becoming a deity and acquiring some worshipers.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

@DeWolfe.2174 said:

@xan.8549 said:Idk about u guys but ALL these blobs are minstrils and the pace of battle is unbelivably slow and boring, the game was more fun when we had damage. The current meta reminds me of when Overwatch meta shifted to 6 tanks in thier Esports league and thier viewership plummeted. I know this is about to get ripped apart by 4-5 pages of snowflakes who dont want anything to happen to thier 50 man map que cc spam no brains perma protection heal to full every second ELITE gameplay but anyway. Just a thought. Oh and everyone be sure to post ur roaming videos of u one shotting literal bots in blue and greens to dispute my stance, that will definately help the discussion.

It's not the Minstrils, it's the Boons. There's not enough boon hate and too many reflects, blocks, and retal.

scourge, spellbreaker, scrapper, chrono, they can ten times ripping more boons than the enemy can every want to apply. scourge even corrupts the boons and lets the kittengroup die on their own boons thaha.

[len.7809]

@kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

@DeWolfe.2174 said:

@xan.8549 said:Idk about u guys but ALL these blobs are minstrils and the pace of battle is unbelivably slow and boring, the game was more fun when we had damage. The current meta reminds me of when Overwatch meta shifted to 6 tanks in thier Esports league and thier viewership plummeted. I know this is about to get ripped apart by 4-5 pages of snowflakes who dont want anything to happen to thier 50 man map que cc spam no brains perma protection heal to full every second ELITE gameplay but anyway. Just a thought. Oh and everyone be sure to post ur roaming videos of u one shotting literal bots in blue and greens to dispute my stance, that will definately help the discussion.

It's not the Minstrils, it's the Boons. There's not enough boon hate and too many reflects, blocks, and retal.

scourge, spellbreaker, scrapper, chrono, they can ten times ripping more boons than the enemy can every want to apply. scourge even corrupts the boons and lets the kittengroup die on their own boons thaha.

Wait, scrapper and chrono can remove boons?

[Dawdler.8521]

@len.7809 said:

@kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

@DeWolfe.2174 said:

@xan.8549 said:Idk about u guys but ALL these blobs are minstrils and the pace of battle is unbelivably slow and boring, the game was more fun when we had damage. The current meta reminds me of when Overwatch meta shifted to 6 tanks in thier Esports league and thier viewership plummeted. I know this is about to get ripped apart by 4-5 pages of snowflakes who dont want anything to happen to thier 50 man map que cc spam no brains perma protection heal to full every second ELITE gameplay but anyway. Just a thought. Oh and everyone be sure to post ur roaming videos of u one shotting literal bots in blue and greens to dispute my stance, that will definately help the discussion.

It's not the Minstrils, it's the Boons. There's not enough boon hate and too many reflects, blocks, and retal.

scourge, spellbreaker, scrapper, chrono, they can ten times ripping more boons than the enemy can every want to apply. scourge even corrupts the boons and lets the kittengroup die on their own boons thaha.

Wait, scrapper and chrono can remove boons?Greatsword/null field for mesmer and mine for engineer.

[Yoci.2481]

Null field can be blocked, though.

[len.7809]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@len.7809 said:

@kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

@DeWolfe.2174 said:

@xan.8549 said:Idk about u guys but ALL these blobs are minstrils and the pace of battle is unbelivably slow and boring, the game was more fun when we had damage. The current meta reminds me of when Overwatch meta shifted to 6 tanks in thier Esports league and thier viewership plummeted. I know this is about to get ripped apart by 4-5 pages of snowflakes who dont want anything to happen to thier 50 man map que cc spam no brains perma protection heal to full every second ELITE gameplay but anyway. Just a thought. Oh and everyone be sure to post ur roaming videos of u one shotting literal bots in blue and greens to dispute my stance, that will definately help the discussion.

It's not the Minstrils, it's the Boons. There's not enough boon hate and too many reflects, blocks, and retal.

scourge, spellbreaker, scrapper, chrono, they can ten times ripping more boons than the enemy can every want to apply. scourge even corrupts the boons and lets the kittengroup die on their own boons thaha.

Wait, scrapper and chrono can remove boons?Greatsword/null field for mesmer and mine for engineer.

have you seen an engi in blob running mines? I don't.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

the best antiboon imo is still scourge. then imo comes spellbreakers, since a solid bubbletrain is as annoying to fight in, as strong it is with ripping boons.

don't forget that these classes can also run boon-rip sigils to mulitplay their work. on scourge can get over 200 boonrips in longer fights (likely even more, i don't always pay attention to the arcdps tbh)

the scrapper mines can, and it is from what i remember a big amount of ripped boons. and yeah, i'd not have known about this, if we didn't use it (scrapper) either.

[Veprovina.4876]

@Yoci.2481 said:Null field can be blocked, though.

It needs to be unblockable like the rest of the boonstrips. It's not even as powerful like the rest utility boonstrips from other professions. So why are theirs unblockable and Null Field isn't? Makes no sense.

[Dawdler.8521]

@len.7809 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@len.7809 said:

@kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

@DeWolfe.2174 said:

@xan.8549 said:Idk about u guys but ALL these blobs are minstrils and the pace of battle is unbelivably slow and boring, the game was more fun when we had damage. The current meta reminds me of when Overwatch meta shifted to 6 tanks in thier Esports league and thier viewership plummeted. I know this is about to get ripped apart by 4-5 pages of snowflakes who dont want anything to happen to thier 50 man map que cc spam no brains perma protection heal to full every second ELITE gameplay but anyway. Just a thought. Oh and everyone be sure to post ur roaming videos of u one shotting literal bots in blue and greens to dispute my stance, that will definately help the discussion.

It's not the Minstrils, it's the Boons. There's not enough boon hate and too many reflects, blocks, and retal.

scourge, spellbreaker, scrapper, chrono, they can ten times ripping more boons than the enemy can every want to apply. scourge even corrupts the boons and lets the kittengroup die on their own boons thaha.

Wait, scrapper and chrono can remove boons?Greatsword/null field for mesmer and mine for engineer.

have you seen an engi in blob running mines? I don't.No but that wasnt the question.

[XenesisII.1540]

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Yoci.2481 said:Null field can be blocked, though.

It needs to be unblockable like the rest of the boonstrips. It's not even as powerful like the rest utility boonstrips from other professions. So why are theirs unblockable and Null Field isn't? Makes no sense.

Heh they were too busy trying to nerf chrono and mirage every way they could instead the past few years. But yeah I've often wondered why is well of corruption unblockable and null field isn't? but hey at least it gets rid of aegis!

Mesmers have boonstrips sure, doesn't mean they're any good in zergs.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

eliminate all heals/ boon share for everyone outside your party

[Za Shaloc.3908]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:eliminate all heals/ boon share for everyone outside your party

Hell kitten no. I like to play support but almost never join tags because I like to play my own builds on my own terms. Ungrouped pug fights are a huge aspect of WvW and to force giant squads sounds absolutely horrible. I would consider quitting the game completely if this happened.

[God.2708]

@Za Shaloc.3908 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:eliminate all heals/ boon share for everyone outside your party

Hell kitten no. I like to play support but almost never join tags because I like to play my own builds on my own terms. Ungrouped pug fights are a huge aspect of WvW and to force giant squads sounds absolutely horrible. I would consider quitting the game completely if this happened.

This is a very peculiar ideology. Ungrouped pug fights are in no way shape or form suppose to be a huge aspect of WvW. They are the primary indicator that the mode is dying. WvW is not a sandbox, it is an RvR designed to pit 3 teams against each other. Individual players showing up to play how they want and not coordinate with others is as baffling as it would be to see a soccer player sitting in the corner of the field only participating on their whim.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

@God.2708 said:

@Za Shaloc.3908 said:

@"Stand The Wall.6987" said:eliminate all heals/ boon share for everyone outside your party

Hell kitten no. I like to play support but almost never join tags because I like to play my own builds on my own terms. Ungrouped pug fights are a huge aspect of WvW and to force giant squads sounds absolutely horrible. I would consider quitting the game completely if this happened.

This is a very peculiar ideology. Ungrouped pug fights are in no way shape or form suppose to be a huge aspect of WvW. They are the primary indicator that the mode is dying. WvW is not a sandbox, it is an RvR designed to pit 3 teams against each other. Individual players showing up to play how they want and not coordinate with others is as baffling as it would be to see a soccer player sitting in the corner of the field only participating on their whim.

The game mode is an open world PvE/PvP environment so I don't understand why it would not be a huge aspect of the game mode. 3v3 RvR is correct, but there is very little structure that indicates how it is "supposed" to be played. You can't really call WvW'ers soccer players when there were never (many) rules, tryouts, or signups to begin with. As baffling as you may see it, there are many players that play WvW specifically for the lack of heavy structure and because of its casual nature. I am not going to bring my support Druid or Ventari Rev into a group and expect accommodation, but those are the support builds I play the most because I enjoy them the most. I find the larger pug fights more enjoyable because of the greater chance of volatility and spontaneity. I also like to mix it up with roaming, and I am not going to join a squad knowing that my playstyle will interfere with the group's greater goal. Call me a bad servermate, but we all have different goals in the game mode.

[Shroud.2307]

@God.2708 said:They are the primary indicator that the mode is dying.

Players being experienced enough not to need a commander doesn't mean WvW is dying, it means it's old and people know what to do without being told. As long as people are engaging in combat and attacking objectives it suits the definition of RvR.

The only baffling thing is how many people prefer to spend more time getting acquainted with what siege skills do than with what their profession skills do.

[God.2708]

@Za Shaloc.3908 said:

@God.2708 said:

@Za Shaloc.3908 said:

@"Stand The Wall.6987" said:eliminate all heals/ boon share for everyone outside your party

Hell kitten no. I like to play support but almost never join tags because I like to play my own builds on my own terms. Ungrouped pug fights are a huge aspect of WvW and to force giant squads sounds absolutely horrible. I would consider quitting the game completely if this happened.

This is a very peculiar ideology. Ungrouped pug fights are in no way shape or form suppose to be a huge aspect of WvW. They are the primary indicator that the mode is dying. WvW is not a sandbox, it is an RvR designed to pit 3 teams against each other. Individual players showing up to play how they want and not coordinate with others is as baffling as it would be to see a soccer player sitting in the corner of the field only participating on their whim.

The game mode is an open world PvE/PvP environment so I don't understand why it would not be a huge aspect of the game mode. 3v3 RvR is correct, but there is very little structure that indicates how it is "supposed" to be played. You can't really call WvW'ers soccer players when there were never (many) rules, tryouts, or signups to begin with. As baffling as you may see it, there are many players that play WvW specifically for the lack of heavy structure and because of its casual nature. I am not going to bring my support Druid or Ventari Rev into a group and expect accommodation, but those are the support builds I play the most because I enjoy them the most. I find the larger pug fights more enjoyable because of the greater chance of volatility and spontaneity. I also like to mix it up with roaming, and I am not going to join a squad knowing that my playstyle will interfere with the group's greater goal. Call me a bad servermate, but we all have different goals in the game mode.

But it's not an open world PvE/PvP environment. It has clear objectives, a way to decide the victor (though achieving it has little acclaim), and pretty clearly defined structures/rules. You win skirmishes via points, you earn points via kills/holding objectives, whoever has the most points at the end of a skirmish wins the skirmish, the one who wins the most skirmishes wins the week. They could, arguably, simply drop the entire point system, and it would become an open world PvE/PvP environment. But at the moment that is not what it is.

That isn't to say that you must join a commander and form an omni blob. That is one of the least effective ways to win when the mode is thriving (though it is the easiest way to maintain command and control, and keep people happy through easy positive reinforcement). But it is ultimately suppose to be a team game, which means playing off what other people on the map are doing.

As @Shroud.2307 pointed out, people can become veteranized enough to do that without a commander, but I also think the mode simply isn't lively enough to show that method doesn't work when opposition is actually trying.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

@"xan.8549" said:Idk about u guys but ALL these blobs are minstrils and the pace of battle is unbelivably slow and boring, the game was more fun when we had damage. The current meta reminds me of when Overwatch meta shifted to 6 tanks in thier Esports league and thier viewership plummeted. I know this is about to get ripped apart by 4-5 pages of snowflakes who dont want anything to happen to thier 50 man map que cc spam no brains perma protection heal to full every second ELITE gameplay but anyway. Just a thought. Oh and everyone be sure to post ur roaming videos of u one shotting literal bots in blue and greens to dispute my stance, that will definately help the discussion.

Well it is the same argument they had in sPvP where they insisted the problem were the amulets they were not. The root of the problem is the feb nerf 2020 there were too much thing which weren't considered it really broke the game from my perspective.

I take a pause from wvw currently since a few weeks but what I saw the last time were :

1.) Guilds are hard to kill as public zerg (organized) as a random blob you can't kill even one of them.

2.) When public zerg vs public zerg fight I witness fight which lasted 10-15 minutes or more.

3.) Gild vs Gild or better 2 zergs which have a lot of skilled people there isn't this much different sometimes... but I also saw real struggle.

So for the most but the balance get around the people who a really skilled and the others can't killed each other because of lack of skill and maybe using outdated build basically the same like in sPvP

When I ignore the DPS problem here my list of edge cases:

1.) Skilled people like the others said stick together which takes up the aoe cap.

2.) With the shift in direction of Scrapper the whole meta setup has too much Superspeed. I said that before but maybe people don't understand what I mean with 'so they evade the dmg' what that means is you rush kinda between server ticks through the aoe and it doesn't count as hit.

3.) Too much/powerful condi clean scrappers ability to convert condi into boons makes using condis which still has a higher dps cap useless, other reason it the aura transmutation build from Tempest.

4.)They took some inspiration form the shift in sPvP most sec supporter running(at least in guild setups) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Durability which increase the tankiness

5,)We had already sec support before the nerf it in Feb the problem is when I put an DPS player in this spot it doesn't give me an advantage

But if you nerf the heal and boons in general people will shift even more to tank or trick builds as we saw in sPvP everyone will then run Barrier Runes then.

6) The skill difference of the player base is too different which is actually in all game modes so but in competitive scene it causes too much salt. Which in return caused the whole please nerf dmg outcry . It all about who fights who and if you play against some stronger you want a compensation or make it somehow fair. This not the case in Gw 2 . For WvW those are instances like server let them self fall to farm lower server because there is no motivation to be top or that guild overstack servers.

[DeWolfe.2174]

@God.2708 said:

@Za Shaloc.3908 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:eliminate all heals/ boon share for everyone outside your party

Hell kitten no. I like to play support but almost never join tags because I like to play my own builds on my own terms. Ungrouped pug fights are a huge aspect of WvW and to force giant squads sounds absolutely horrible. I would consider quitting the game completely if this happened.

This is a very peculiar ideology. Ungrouped pug fights are in no way shape or form suppose to be a huge aspect of WvW. They are the primary indicator that the mode is dying. WvW is not a sandbox, it is an RvR designed to pit 3 teams against each other. Individual players showing up to play how they want and not coordinate with others is as baffling as it would be to see a soccer player sitting in the corner of the field only participating on their whim.

It's not GvG, it's WvW! Massive pugs groups fighting for their world was a far superior design than focusing on guilds. This is like a 6-7 year old topic of conversation on the design of the mode. 6 years later, we see what happened when they shifted away from Worlds towards Guilds, the WvW population collapsed.

They should've kept focus on worlds and seasons.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Nocturnal Lunacy.8563 said:

@xan.8549 said:Idk about u guys but ALL these blobs are minstrils and the pace of battle is unbelivably slow and boring, the game was more fun when we had damage. The current meta reminds me of when Overwatch meta shifted to 6 tanks in thier Esports league and thier viewership plummeted. I know this is about to get ripped apart by 4-5 pages of snowflakes who dont want anything to happen to thier 50 man map que cc spam no brains perma protection heal to full every second ELITE gameplay but anyway. Just a thought. Oh and everyone be sure to post ur roaming videos of u one shotting literal bots in blue and greens to dispute my stance, that will definately help the discussion.

its the crybabies that made wvw the way it is

Well players search overperformance gimmick, being us in the old state of balance or the current, i still think that the current balance nerf can be only properly finished after factions expantion anyway, both my builds were severly hitted and now suffer from a huge eficiency gap against some gimmicks classes.

Imo the issue always was the class design were always ment to carry its user with poor combat thinked when building the class into the game itself for example look at scourge when the game was already impested with aoe spam, by the other hand some classes when the hammer nerf happened some classes kinda lost their concept since they had what was ment to carry as in overperformance momentum shafted or changed to something much inferior.WvW suffers alot from that and the diference on population ktrains and their timezones helps this snow ball effect getting worse, people will stacker what makes them have less issues if it carries its even better.

[God.2708]

@DeWolfe.2174 said:

@God.2708 said:

@Za Shaloc.3908 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:eliminate all heals/ boon share for everyone outside your party

Hell kitten no. I like to play support but almost never join tags because I like to play my own builds on my own terms. Ungrouped pug fights are a huge aspect of WvW and to force giant squads sounds absolutely horrible. I would consider quitting the game completely if this happened.

This is a very peculiar ideology. Ungrouped pug fights are in no way shape or form suppose to be a huge aspect of WvW. They are the primary indicator that the mode is dying. WvW is not a sandbox, it is an RvR designed to pit 3 teams against each other. Individual players showing up to play how they want and not coordinate with others is as baffling as it would be to see a soccer player sitting in the corner of the field only participating on their whim.

It's not GvG, it's WvW! Massive pugs groups fighting for their world was a far superior design than focusing on guilds. This is like a 6-7 year old topic of conversation on the design of the mode. 6 years later, we see what happened when they shifted away from Worlds towards Guilds, the WvW population collapsed.

They should've kept focus on worlds and seasons.

What? 10chars

[Aeolus.3615]

@God.2708 said:

@DeWolfe.2174 said:

@God.2708 said:

@Za Shaloc.3908 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:eliminate all heals/ boon share for everyone outside your party

Hell kitten no. I like to play support but almost never join tags because I like to play my own builds on my own terms. Ungrouped pug fights are a huge aspect of WvW and to force giant squads sounds absolutely horrible. I would consider quitting the game completely if this happened.

This is a very peculiar ideology. Ungrouped pug fights are in no way shape or form suppose to be a huge aspect of WvW. They are the primary indicator that the mode is dying. WvW is not a sandbox, it is an RvR designed to pit 3 teams against each other. Individual players showing up to play how they want and not coordinate with others is as baffling as it would be to see a soccer player sitting in the corner of the field only participating on their whim.

It's not GvG, it's WvW! Massive pugs groups fighting for their world was a far superior design than focusing on guilds. This is like a 6-7 year old topic of conversation on the design of the mode. 6 years later, we see what happened when they shifted away from Worlds towards Guilds, the WvW population collapsed.

They should've kept focus on worlds and seasons.

What? 10chars

i would say he/she is mentioning the amount of GuildVGates aka pvd hapening in this game , i remember in NA some large guilds use to move from servers where they could have a fight and fun to a serverwhere they would fight no one to ktrain empty maps in certain timezonesm, this or try to move to link that could fit into overpopulated timezones to get carried with the numbers vs smaller servers.

[Tseison.4659]

They could always increase the number of boons stripped from certain skills, as well as have the airships remove a large number of boons from enemies they hit.

[Dawdler.8521]

@"Tseison.4659" said:They could always increase the number of boons stripped from certain skills, as well as have the airships remove a large number of boons from enemies they hit.Which will help exactly zero against organized groups. Anything you give to people - such as better AoE damage, more boon removal, etc - only make the zerg even stronger. Because they get it too.

The key remains removing a metric buttload of AoE boons. It's completely out of control and has been since HoT due to PvE raids "needing" all boons at perma duration for those 30-40k numbers. And they would have a complete mental breakdown if Anet nerfed dps, so that's why it will never get truly nerfed.

[Tseison.4659]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Tseison.4659" said:They could always increase the number of boons stripped from certain skills, as well as have the airships remove a large number of boons from enemies they hit.Which will help exactly zero against organized groups. Anything you give to people - such as better AoE damage, more boon removal, etc -

only make the zerg even stronger

. Because they get it too.

The key remains removing a metric buttload of AoE boons. It's completely out of control and has been since HoT due to PvE raids "needing" all boons at perma duration for those 30-40k numbers. And they would have a complete mental breakdown if Anet nerfed dps, so that's why it will never get truly nerfed.

And? If they won’t increase the number of goon removal then they can like I said, incorporate it in sieges/tactics (the airships).

[Dadnir.5038]

@len.7809 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@len.7809 said:

@kamikharzeeh.8016 said:scourge, spellbreaker, scrapper, chrono, they can ten times ripping more boons than the enemy can every want to apply. scourge even corrupts the boons and lets the kittengroup die on their own boons thaha.

Wait, scrapper and chrono can remove boons?Greatsword/null field for mesmer and mine for engineer.

have you seen an engi in blob running mines? I don't.

It's not because it's not widely used at the moment that the option doesn't exist.I'll add that revenant also have a good potential of boon removal throught mallyx's banish enchantment (it's seldom used but very potent).