Toxic players in Fractals..

[Matt H.6142]

Tempest has more utility than just healing, and I don't think it's DPS is negligible, so useless is a bit overblown, as is equating the toxicity/hostility of harassing/kicking a player to the player that just wants to get the daily recs done.

 

 

[Cyninja.2954]

18 minutes ago, Matt H.6142 said:

Tempest has more utility than just healing, and I don't think it's DPS is negligible, so useless is a bit overblown, as is equating the toxicity/hostility of harassing/kicking a player to the player that just wants to get the daily recs done.

 

 

 

No, none which would be valuable enough to give up a dps spot. I will agree that the way the group handled it was incorrect, especially given this was fractal level 35 which a good players should be able to solo without issue hence who else joins is meaningless. Yet you have your share of the blame to carry for this situation unfolding:

 

1. you joined on a healtempest to a group which already had a healer. No matter how godly you think you are, your damage will have been non existent, unless you were running hybrid gear AND unless the group was not specifying what they are looking for, you were not the target player on that build

 

2. refusing to use arcdps is fine. Refusing to actually benchmark and just "assuming" one does good damage is not. There is a damage golem available in game. If this is a recurring issue, you might want to self reflect and consider if it is in part you

 

There is a lot a player can do to prevent toxic situations, one of those things is being properly prepared and joining on the correct builds/role which others are looking for would be very helpful and reduce a large amount of toxic interactions. Alas unfortunately many do not do even that bare minimum and the result is players bumping heads with each other.

Edited June 5, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Infusion.7149]

Had a random reaper in my T4 group do less DPS than healbrand, but we didn't kick them anyway. It's a fractal rush not a fractal "take your time" and some people really amaze me.

There is no reason to run heal tempest if you have a heal firebrand really. If your firebrand is condi quickbrand then maybe that's alright. To put it into perspective , scale 35 isn't as much about DPS because solid ocean is mostly about holding crystals so the group was "toxic" for kicking you especially at the end.

[Matt H.6142]

18 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

unless you were running hybrid gear AND unless the group was not specifying what they are looking for, 

2. refusing to use arcdps is fine. Refusing to actually benchmark and just "assuming" one does good damage is not. There is a damage golem available in game. If this is a recurring issue, you might want to self reflect and consider if it is in part you

 

I was hybrid, they just assumed.  They didn’t specify.

I play. Bosses die quickly, players don’t. Apparently that’s not good enough.

[Krzysztof.5973]

12 hours ago, Matt H.6142 said:

I was hybrid, they just assumed.  They didn’t specify.

I play. Bosses die quickly, players don’t. Apparently that’s not good enough.

Some players just have higher standards than just completing a fractal in a "good pace". 
Let's take this scenario for example:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/586760159162793985/850643682570666015/123.jpg
Nobody was rude towards the warrior but personally it's not somebody I would gladly farm fractal rush with. Bosses died quickly but they could have died even faster if his dps was higher than ... that.

Edit: alt link

Edited June 5, 2021 by Krzysztof.5973

[Cyninja.2954]

23 minutes ago, Matt H.6142 said:

I was hybrid, they just assumed.  They didn’t specify.

I play. Bosses die quickly, players don’t. Apparently that’s not good enough.

No, it isn't.

 

I mean you can easily verify what your performance is, takes 5 minutes. The sad reality is: players who are this little committed are rarely (I have not seen it to this day) in any way decent at their class.

 

The screenshot provided by Krzysztof.5973 is the reality 99% of the time. I can guarantee that that warrior has never benchmarkt or run arcdps ever. The fights will have still been butter smooth to him, because he was carried.

 

EDIT:

and just for clarity sake since not everyone runs arcdps. Those numbers at the end, that's damage per second, not total. 

Edited June 5, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Vilin.8056]

1 hour ago, Matt H.6142 said:

I was hybrid, they just assumed.  They didn’t specify.

I play. Bosses die quickly, players don’t. Apparently that’s not good enough.

And they assumed right.

 

Clearly you did not cared about their group composition: that fractal group already sacrificed 2 spots for a Heal Brand and a Alac Ren, to support the DPS roles, what contribution do you intend to make as a hybrid ?

 

Also making an entitlement out of 35k AP and Ad Infinitum isn't going to help with the communication either.

[Matt H.6142]

15 minutes ago, Vilin.8056 said:

And they assumed right.

 

Clearly you did not cared about their group composition: that fractal group already sacrificed 2 spots for a Heal Brand and a Alac Ren, to support the DPS roles, what contribution do you intend to make as a hybrid ?

 

Also making an entitlement out of 35k AP and Ad Infinitum isn't going to help with the communication either.

You misunderstand. I didn’t join the group asking for HB Alac.  The group was just Daily Recs.  They called out my AP and criticized my choice of Tempest, like no one with that much AP would play tempest. Honestly, the group just wasn’t meant to be, and hopefully the next generic lfg group will be the casuals I was looking for.

Edited June 5, 2021 by Matt H.6142
Specified group for clarity

[SidewayS.3789]

3 hours ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

Some players just have higher standards than just completing a fractal in a "good pace". 
Let's take this scenario for example:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/586760159162793985/850643682570666015/123.jpg
Nobody was rude towards the warrior but personally it's not somebody I would gladly farm fractal rush with. Bosses died quickly but they could have died even faster if his dps was higher than ... that.

 How can a warrior got that dps? I mean honestly, i can't cope. Even if he would AA, i bet his dps would have been higher. 

But i agree, with this Fractal Rush event, i found myself into some weird weird groups. Either ppls aren't paying attention of their classes/skills/traits or just I dunno.

[Infusion.7149]

5 hours ago, SidewayS.3789 said:

 How can a warrior got that dps? I mean honestly, i can't cope. Even if he would AA, i bet his dps would have been higher. 

But i agree, with this Fractal Rush event, i found myself into some weird weird groups. Either ppls aren't paying attention of their classes/skills/traits or just I dunno.

I don't know (maybe they use random drop gears and don't stat swap them in Mystic Forge) but this week I've seen that happen on multiple occasions. It's not an isolated incident.

[Linken.6345]

7 hours ago, SidewayS.3789 said:

 How can a warrior got that dps? I mean honestly, i can't cope. Even if he would AA, i bet his dps would have been higher. 

But i agree, with this Fractal Rush event, i found myself into some weird weird groups. Either ppls aren't paying attention of their classes/skills/traits or just I dunno.

I cant open then link at work how bad was it?

[Infusion.7149]

3 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

I cant open then link at work how bad was it?

998 (less than 1K)

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Infusion.7149 said:

998 (less than 1K)

ouch not even death reset on 98 last bullet phase will give you that low numbers.

[Tails.9372]

3 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

998 (less than 1K)

 

That's less than a Rock Dog rune summon.

[ArchonWing.9480]

Uhh, that was non-cm Enso I imagine?

Also I dunno, 1k dps isn't even minstrel dps. Maybe Nomad. 🙃

Edited June 5, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Krzysztof.5973]

1 hour ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Uhh, that was non-cm Enso I imagine?

Also I dunno, 1k dps isn't even minstrel dps. Maybe Nomad. 🙃

That's from T1 nightmare. I've also asked him if he's healer but he declined. Didn't want to vote kick him cause god forbid, he might call me toxic so I simply left right after 🙂

[Mauti.3520]

From my personal experience: Going for "All Welcome" or "No Exp/Meta required" to avoid toxicity in Fractals is the exact wrong approach to actually avoid it.

 

Back in the day when I teamed up with those, I encountered way more toxicity, people going completely ham and frustrating experiences overall in a single week than after months over months running PuG Meta Comps.
Which makes kinda sense, doesn't it?

Edited June 9, 2021 by Mauti.3520
wenting lol

[36F0A0BB-7480-4A73-8575-EE]

 

It seeems that fractal rush was a good and a bad thing. New, returning or regular players forget to read lfg and just join as they please now. I run cms+t4 daily, i set my lfg at 5k ufe and/or 150 old kps. Can someone tell me that this amount is outrageous, elitist? So i'm just gonna say that i'm really sick and tired of having this lame excuse: "Hi dps (of course), i have 180 ufe but i know mecs". Well no sorry please leave party and read lfg. Of course this comes with the usual insult or "I'm sure i do more dps than you" blablabla. I usually have no issue with giving a chance to players above 1.5k. So these snowflakes complaining about toxicity basically want to suck, get carried through cms and leave when they got what they wanted. And of course we cannot say anything to them during the run because we are called toxic straight away. What is the solution? Well from now on it'll be a higher kp requisite (probably12k) and a straight block and kick for anyone who doesn't show their stuff straight up. You call us toxic and elitist? Well don't conveniently forget to read lfg, know your class and stop leeching. I also noticed that they don't even bother taking pots and food anymore. So basically we are toxic, they are cheap and god forbid we don't comply and carry them. READ LFG PLEASE!

[ArchonWing.9480]

On 6/5/2021 at 5:40 PM, Krzysztof.5973 said:

That's from T1 nightmare. I've also asked him if he's healer but he declined. Didn't want to vote kick him cause god forbid, he might call me toxic so I simply left right after 🙂

Oh, was it a rec? lol. That's usually why people do recs last.

 

Yea you're better off leaving in those cases.

Edited June 9, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Charybdis.3695]

Yeah I see this all the time. Despite having youtube videos of how fast and smooth runs are with a Herald healer, it goes both ways. People leave instantly when they don't see a renegade in the group, and those who stay end up pleasantly surprised to have more alacrity than what a common renegade provides. If you're not another brick in their meta wall, then you're judged and discarded.

 

I built my Herald healer from the ground up when I was first introduced to fractals a little over a year ago, and never looked back. No problems healing low DPS groups without a firebrand (aegis/stability/quickness) in fractals and strikes either (going to upload those videos on youtube sometime this week). I learned quick that bringing DPS to fractals as an experiment to see what it's like to depend on a healbrand that players have become impatient from how frequent wipes happen, and it became more clear why more people I meet want to regularly with my healer.

 

I know this post will confuse a lot of people, but there's always youtube.

[SidewayS.3789]

3 minutes ago, Echo.6310 said:

Yeah I see this all the time. Despite having youtube videos of how fast and smooth runs are with a Herald healer, it goes both ways. People leave instantly when they don't see a renegade in the group, and those who stay end up pleasantly surprised to have more alacrity than what a common renegade provides. If you're not another brick in their meta wall, then you're judged and discarded.

 

I built my Herald healer from the ground up when I was first introduced to fractals a little over a year ago, and never looked back. No problems healing low DPS groups without a firebrand (aegis/stability/quickness) in fractals and strikes either (going to upload those videos on youtube sometime this week). I learned quick that bringing DPS to fractals as an experiment to see what it's like to depend on a healbrand that players have become impatient from how frequent wipes happen, and it became more clear why more people I meet want to regularly with my healer.

 

I know this post will confuse a lot of people, but there's always youtube.

And i think you are going with your heal herald in T4 (even though even there ppls won't take you as a healer) .

[Charybdis.3695]

Just now, SidewayS.3789 said:

And i think you are going with your heal herald in T4 (even though even there ppls won't take you as a healer) .

 

I do T4s and recs around reset almost everyday posted with any DPS welcome, or with a full group of people who catch me before I get started.

[kanemi.4903]

My take on toxicity while running fractal (all tiers) or whatever is, leave the group and block!
I had to block a few people from my own guild for that same reason.

[Firebeard.1746]

I'm sorry to hear that OP. There are chiller groups out there, trust me. I would not have voted to kick you. Most of the time you can down a boss by playing its mechanics, which is something alot of elite gW2 players forget.

Really it's a symptom of how PVE in this game ages. Players who have been doing it forever have little patience with people who are new and/or returning and trying to get their bearings again, they just want the reward ASAP. I think that the devs really need to think of mechanics that encourage helping struggling players in PVE in general to combat it. It saddens me to hear and see this kind of behavior because my initial impression of GW2 was that players were helpful and cooperative, and it was one of the things that sold me on this game, but in some game modes, high-end PVE and PVP specifically, the systems to encourage that kind of behavior just don't exist.

Edited June 16, 2021 by Firebeard.1746

[Vidit.7108]

I've been pugging t4 fractals for years mostly as a daredevil, and lately also as a healbrand. So here is what I think:
The stories I am hearing of being kicked for seemingly no reason suck, but I would say they've become less common since the healbrand/alac ren came into existence, Fractal Rush not withstanding, that was a bad week. If I were healbranding and my party suddenly kicked someone at the end of a boss I would leave them immediately and try to apologize to that player. I'm not an expert on the meta but I can tell bad dps from good without something spitting numbers at me, I know very well how long a boss should take when things are going well. 
There are several better healers than the healbrand, it's pretty common knowledge. I've heard european players actually make the alac ren take ventari and they're responsible for the healing in their meta. (I've also heard they're more toxic over there, but it's all rumor.) This not why healbrand is dominate in LFG, I think there is a misconception here that the healbrand is the preferred healer. If I'm in a party with no renegade and I am a healbrand I'd actually welcome a barrier scourge or a tempest helping me heal the party as long as we're not both built to do all the healing ourselves.
So why healbrand? Well, what the party wants/needs whether they know it or not is boons. That 25 might is huge, fury needs to be upkept, stability and aegis are really important to keeping people alive and damage going out, res and protection are never a bad thing. Ren and Firebrand are able to maintain the coverage of those boons to 5 people well. Quickness and Alac, however, are what make bad dps passable or at least non-trivial, a really really good group probably doesn't even need alac. Those two boons are a safety blanket keeping the run from being a slog and the more time spent killing the boss is more time for an average or bad ping player to die to a mechanic they fail to dodge. Other group comps do exist but you're better off getting a static for one of those than trying to deal with pugs.
Let me tell you about before Path of Fire T4s. Players didn't thank you after a run was over. Runs sometimes took 3 hours, healers were kind of rare, Chronomancers were the most toxic and miserable players you ever interacted with. I've been cussed out, tossed, and back-seated hundreds of times more then than now. I used to run a daredevil build that ensured I would live even if the party wiped because before this meta it was very common to pug with a group that needed more than one attempt to clear each boss. Sometimes you could tell once your DH was down it was better to gg but it was really common for if anyone to go down (not full dead) for the chrono to just bail and leave. Personal survivability was a little more important (also players had better dps back then imo) you had to dodge more and not rely on group-wide aegis as much. Even good groups were stressful back then and not that fun at t4.
All this said, the worst time of day to pug is still at server reset, you'll much more often run into toxic players around then. Also for some reason t3 is really toxic, and over populated with players who think they're good but aren't. (looking at you longbow rangers) I've been doing lower tier fractals to help out newbie players and do the weekly and t3 always goes worse than my t4 runs for the day. At least from my perspective it's never been easier to keep players alive and so I don't know why it is people still complain about the dps.
If you see me around say Hi. If you get me in a group I'm never going to leave or kick you, promise.