why do people hate the flamethrower in pvp?

[Stalima.5490]

Flamethrowers are people too :'(

Yet it seems every other game someone flames the flamer guy.

[Engal.6359]

Its a combination of perma stab being uninteractive for everyone else and the fact that the entire build is pressing one button.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

they hate it cuz its effective and you're just sitting there not even pressing one button but auto attacking when in range.

[LuRkEr.9462]

They hate it because its not meta, anything not meta people rage on in pvp these days. Even whole classes, join on X class might have someone complain instantly lol

[wanya.1697]

its like conditions low investment high profit

[Kodama.6453]

Because flamethrower actually requires them to use mechanics like usage of terrain and that they should reflect their rotation anew. In my experience, many people are used to the standard rotation of "land 1 cc, spam your burst skills, repeat", which doesn't work against juggernaut.

Hence why these people will cry that this build "is impossible to CC", when all they need to do is chain their CC instead of laying it down one after one with time in between for the stability to reapply.

@Engal.6359 said:Its a combination of perma stab being uninteractive for everyone else and the fact that the entire build is pressing one button.

If you are just pressing one button, you are using the build incorrectly.

[Shrapnel.7249]

@"Kodama.6453" said:Because flamethrower actually requires them to use mechanics like usage of terrain and that they should reflect their rotation anew. In my experience, many people are used to the standard rotation of "land 1 cc, spam your burst skills, repeat", which doesn't work against juggernaut.

Hence why these people will cry that this build "is impossible to CC", when all they need to do is chain their CC instead of laying it done one after one with time in between for the stability to reapply.

@Engal.6359 said:Its a combination of perma stab being uninteractive for everyone else and the fact that the entire build is pressing one button.

If you are just pressing one button, you are using the build incorrectly.

So you’re saying they need to burn multiple CCs in a short window before the reapplication of another stab. And you see nothing unhealthy about that level of stability? To pair with that, the auto attack does decent damage with no effort, and cannot be knocked off node while doing so. That’s unhealthy gameplay, dry and cut. Whether or not OP frankly shouldn’t matter. It’s bad design for game that rewards active mechanics (or at least should, even though condi is what it is).

[Kodama.6453]

@Shrapnel.7249 said:

So you’re saying they need to burn multiple CCs in a short window before the reapplication of another stab. And you see nothing unhealthy about that level of stability? To pair with that, the auto attack does decent damage with no effort, and cannot be knocked off node while doing so. That’s unhealthy gameplay, dry and cut. Whether or not OP frankly shouldn’t matter. It’s bad design for game that rewards active mechanics (or at least should, even though condi is what it is).

I don't consider this level of stability unhealthy, no, considering that it is still tied to camping flamethrower for the constant application. And this kit has so glaring weaknesses which are so easily taken advantage of that I never met a flamethrower scrapper to this point who I actually considered to be a threat.

Juggernaut always applied perma stability, even back in the days before stability had the stacking mechanic and just flat out prevented you to get CCed while you have it. And it was never considered to be a problem by any player who is half serious about PvP, because of the aforementioned weaknesses and problems.

Sure, camping flamethrower is better in comparison to before, because other weapons got their damage nerfed while engineer kits where untouched in the big February patch. But the underlying issues of the weapon are still there and if you actually learn and use them, this build really can't do much anymore against you.

[Disney.7826]

Because it gets focused and dies in 0.2s. Also people need to be retarded to let u aa them freely.

[Kuma.1503]

Which flamethrower scrapper build are we complaining about here? There's several varients, and each has it's own pros and cons.

For example, a "safe" variant like this has plenty of tools to deal with conditions and ranged pressure thanks to med kit 3, bulwark, and purge gyro, but has no stunbreaks, so attempting to spam 1 against anyone with a brain will result in you getting locked down and killed.

Meanwhile other more dps oriented varients tend to get destroyed by range or conditions. It's a binary build with obvious counterplay. It pubstomps new/inexperienced players, and struggles against people who don't panic and know how to beat it.

Lastly, the build does more than spam 1.

If running hammer, you'll want to swap to it to land CC, burst, or play defensive with hammer 3 and 4. If running rifle, you'll want to swap to it right as you gain a fresh stack of stab to land 4 > 5 > F1 > 3. None of this is particularly difficult, but if you want to get the most out of the build, there are some neat tricks for you to learn.

[Stalima.5490]

The thing is, i would like to use other weapons but every single other engineer type deals effectively zero damage in comparison to the zerkthrower, this is because in the old days engi relied on alot of things that knocked back and dealt damage but these seem to say they only do 7 damage or so now for some reason which turns the engi into a living joke since most other builds were reliant on things like big ol' bomb and other such effects.

So telling me the game is meant to have such interactive combat and subsequently having that interactivity nerfed to nothing makes no sense.

[Cynz.9437]

@Stalima.5490 said:Flamethrowers are people too :'(

Yet it seems every other game someone flames the flamer guy.

Huh? Flamethrower build was a problem? Hated even? Did i miss something? ((surprised trickery teef face))

[Tiilimon.6094]

Buddy, they flame everyone equally, nothing to do with builds.

Any time I go into pvp with a cleanse/heal/tank scrapper, I get at least 2 guys whispering me all sorts of abuse.Think of it as an extra reward :D Salt used to be a currency in the old world, after all..

[Stalima.5490]

I did make a mortar build that has a fair bit of damage but to be honest, firing randomly seems to hit more than actually trying to aim with it which makes it bad it's also way too easy to counter that.

[Ivarian.9018]

Mostly because it is a build that requires no effort and you look like you are just watering your plants on a Sunday afternoon. Also it is easy to deal with and a pity to win with one in your team.

[Axl.8924]

Just outta curiosity, how many stacks of burn can you engis do with flamethrower?

how much dmg can you guys do?

[Leonidrex.5649]

why?perma-stab as a concept is stupid.long range auto that hits through walls is stupid toothats about it from me tbh, I wouldnt flame a FLAMEthrower guy, play whatever tickles your pickle.

[Kodama.6453]

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:perma-stab as a concept is stupid.

I really don't get why people consider this "stupid". Juggernaut always had this feature and it was never problematic. It requires you to approach the fight differently than with your usual rotation, but I actually consider this to be a good thing.

long range auto that hits through walls is stupid too

On the other hand, ranged auto attack that is unable to hit you if you stand on a table is stupid, too. I agree that it should get fixed that it no longer hits you through walls, but they should at the same time fix that you can hit people standing above or underneath you.

[ugrakarma.9416]

is long time > @Axl.8924 said:

Just outta curiosity, how many stacks of burn can you engis do with flamethrower?

how much dmg can you guys do?

is overnerfed even in pve... i didnt never tested in pvp, but generally burn even lesser than pve.....

in pve power flamethrover to hit mutiple mobs is considered more effective than burn.

burn flamethrower inst more meta in pve since long time ago.

rarely pass 7 ~10 stacks, even stacking special skills/toolbets skills.

[Axl.8924]

Well thats sad if flamethrower's that weak in pvp.

[frareanselm.1925]

i hate the perma stability of flamethrower, not the weapon

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Its not the weapon that's hated but the unhealthy brainless playstyle the game should be avoiding at all cost.

[Stalima.5490]

But how is permanent stability any worse than say, being to teleport/stealth every 3 seconds?

Or requiring over 100k damage to not even scratch a necromancer because of the green bar.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Stalima.5490 said:But how is permanent stability any worse than say, being to teleport/stealth every 3 seconds?

Or requiring over 100k damage to not even scratch a necromancer because of the green bar.

So u equat pressing on button to provide constant significant pressure while also having the ability to permanently negative all the games hard cc's to a class saving its tele for a engage(ambush) or disengage and to a class who's main defensive mechanic(with this specific build) is stealth? If a thief is stwalthing every 3 sec on dp it has 0 ini for anything but autos so just spin and burn it to death before it kills u lmao, im serious. Stealthing every 3 secs isn't free nor a viable playstyle.Simple answer is spamming one key while continually gaining one of the games if not thee most impact full boon is not a healthy playstyle and should 100% be removed, sry but spamming on key regardless of class should be un-rewarding, anet should put diminishing returns on stuff like Flamethrower if one skill is spammed.

[Stalima.5490]

You realise without the stabilty, the flamethrower would be impossible to use as it requires a 2 second cycle time right? That would make it the easiest weapon in the game to interrupt and give the engineer more or less no reasonable power dps build to use due to anything else being highly inaccurate or just not doing any damage at all.