Follow Up to May 11 Balance Preview

[Vennyhedgie.5369]

Pain absorption still needs to be redesigned. Originally (the very first incarnation) of Mallyx would absorb conditions with pain absorption > copy them with the elite. This was changed when the elite lost the ability to copy conditions. It was later sorta reimplemented with the legend swap trait, which means that Pain Absorption has been a trait dependant utility for years now. At least until now it was still usable because of resistance, but now you HAVE to trait for condition cleanses in order to use it as it was originally designed, or you'll die. It's also the legend's stunbreak, which means you can't just not use it. 

 

Not only is this utility's...well, utility, locked behind a trait. It's also a trait that forces a legend swap, making it a general effect, not dependant on Mallyx, the legend it was designed and flavoured after.

 

As someone who loved Mallyx back in the beta events, that legend has lost literaly all its flavour and flair over the years. It now only deals condition damage through the elite (no longer torment on Unyielding Anguish, no more confusion on Banish Enchantment). Now not only has it lost it's distinctive playstyle in favor of "usability", but with this patch you're entirely destroying that usability in the first place.

PLEASE, take a deep look at Mallyx. Out of all the legends it's the one that's changed the most over the years and not in a fun way.

Also while you're changing Rev's mace skills, please fix the annoying graphical bugs on Mace 2. Why is there a coalescence effect displayed backwards on there for no reason? It's been like that for almost 2 years now.

[Salt Mode.3780]

So SA is not getting touched, engi is not getting touched really as well. Shows how desynced ANET is with WvW at least, while buffing mesmers on things that dont need to be touched and nerfing ele when they already hit like wet noodles.

[Arc.8247]

Would there be a way to have mantra voice lines preserved? I know its just a small thing, but the thought of never hearing them again because (mesmer) mantras wont be charged any more, makes me a little sad.

[Noah Salazar.5430]

Nice

 

Edited May 10, 2021 by Noah Salazar.5430

[Loboling.5293]

I have to admit, I was getting a good vibe from the original post (I didn't agree with all the changes, but I was happy for changes), but I'm shocked in a good way to see this follow up. This addresses a lot of the major issues with the patch. I wish they had done this with the feb balance patch that nerfed all cc skill damage, even when it makes no sense. But seriously, thank you for taking our feedback and using it to make the game better. 

I feel like I'm playing dark souls... something about a small flame being ignited... haha I hope this becomes a trend, and more frequent. This is great news though! Keep it up ANET!

And don't forget to balance the skills that are ignored as well as the skills that are Meta. 

[RuneMF.9342]

3 hours ago, Fire Attunement.9835 said:

Guardian

Firebrand

• Ashes of the Just: Now may only activate and consume a stack with an interval of once per second.
  
   
•  

Great changes! Really like the idea and that we finally get some nerfs to the class, 
My only concern is if you have thought about the interaction with the Tome of Justice: Ashes (skill 5)
Which gives 3 stacks out to 5 people, it doesn't really make sense in my head since 3x5 is 15 and if its a 1 sec icd of application won't 5 of the stacks literally be useless for every single cast?  It really deserves a nerf but I think knowing that 5 stacks goes into the abyss on each cast is gonna be a bit of a tilter.

Quickfire also seems indirectly nerfed from this, which was already a trait only used for prebuffing 

[Zychuu.7294]

I still don't understand how PvE Quickness Scrapper is supposed to win his spot in parties/squads against firebrands.  Not only Scrapper will be barely able to keep his quickness with this mere 2s of quickness per trait trigger, but also it will be outclassed in other areas by current quickness FB builds. If you go for dps+quick, then condi quickness FB will outperform you, if you want to go for healscrapper... Heal firebrand will definitely outclass you in most common scenarios by being able to both heal AND throw aegis all over the place. 

 

This quickness Scapper looks like cool idea but without a chance of competing with other currently available quickness builds. I can't see a reason to pick a quick scrapper over firebrand yet.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Zychuu.7294

[Lizardguard.2860]

I don´t see why everyone is having issues with the quickness duration on scrapper. If you´re running wells and a bit of boon duration, you have no trouble upkeeping quickness. Remember that the healwell gives superspeed on cast as well (if you wanna run it, its not even necessary, you could run the med kit and still upkeep quickness...) and some toolbelts give superspeed too.
As long as you keep spamming stuff, you should have no issue there.

Anyway, i guess we´ll see that soon enough.
My Scrapper is so ready for raids ^^

[Noah Salazar.5430]

@Zychuu.7294

Thats what i wuld change, have you anythink to add?

17 minutes ago, Noah Salazar.5430 said:

Will Scrapper get bit buff on Quickness becase of dificulitis on upkeeping it or rework for trait Expert Examination to grant 3s of Quickness whenever you use heal skill (5/f1) or other alternative?

 

Scrapper will also have problems to upkeep fury, as now he will need take blast gyro, so only spot he can replace is Elixir gun for rifle turret, as bulwark gyro you can't replace or you will have 0 stability for team

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PezAo6JlNwcYesGWKeyTXtaA-e

 

 

Will 2-3s of fury will be added to HGC trait to solve that problem?

If yes, i wuld also replace Pinpoint Distribution with Experimental Turrets

 

That way healer scrapper will can bring his unqie boon to team, as well ppl that not using alchemy tree will can get some boons from turrets on dps trainline (as power dps taking No Scope, And Condi dps Thermal Vision anyway, so 3 option with boons culd be ok :D)

 

 

[Lizardguard.2860]

I agree with a relocation of pinpoint distribution though.

Then again, i don´t have a lot of knowledge when it comes to engis and their traitlines. only looked at it a few times now in preperation for playing heal engi.
 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Lizardguard.2860

[Noah Salazar.5430]

@Lizardguard.2860 Problem is you can't boon fury, or will need sacriface Elixir gun, also even with 100% boon upkeep you will have 5*4s=20s and 3 of your skills have over 25s cd so you will can't perm quickness

Remeber that bandage yourself trigger only 1 time not 2

 

So we miss like 1-2 skills with 3s of quickness, also Scrappers schold not drop function gyro recklessly, the only skill that thay can ress ppl with

 

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Noah Salazar.5430

[Loboling.5293]

13 minutes ago, RuneMF.9342 said:

Great changes! Really like the idea and that we finally get some nerfs to the class, 
My only concern is if you have thought about the interaction with the Tome of Justice: Ashes (skill 5)
Which gives 3 stacks out to 5 people, it doesn't really make sense in my head since 3x5 is 15 and if its a 1 sec icd of application won't 5 of the stacks literally be useless for every single cast?  It really deserves a nerf but I think knowing that 5 stacks goes into the abyss on each cast is gonna be a bit of a tilter.

Quickfire also seems indirectly nerfed from this, which was already a trait only used for prebuffing 

These things almost always work on an ICD per player. They get the buff, and they can only apply the fire damage once per second. No stacks are wasted. 

[SkyCake.4216]

Big kudos on responding to the feedback. 

 

Spoiler

Rework Inventions, please. Obviously not this time, but at some point.

 

[Destroyer Bravo.5391]

43 minutes ago, RuneMF.9342 said:

Great changes! Really like the idea and that we finally get some nerfs to the class, 
My only concern is if you have thought about the interaction with the Tome of Justice: Ashes (skill 5)
Which gives 3 stacks out to 5 people, it doesn't really make sense in my head since 3x5 is 15 and if its a 1 sec icd of application won't 5 of the stacks literally be useless for every single cast?  It really deserves a nerf but I think knowing that 5 stacks goes into the abyss on each cast is gonna be a bit of a tilter.

Quickfire also seems indirectly nerfed from this, which was already a trait only used for prebuffing 

 

I believe the ICD of a stack of ashes is for the person doing the hitting, so basically it will take 3 seconds to deliver the burns from ashes instead of 3 hits which can occur in however much time it takes a power class to mash its buttons, a skill to hit 8 times, etc.

[Sereath.1428]

These are great news. Very appreciated.

[ovalle.4163]

please don't forget to go over the numbers of mesmer mantra effects to compensate for the lost effects on mantra preparation skills. i'm particularly concerned about the heal skill mantra of recovery->power return. not only does mantra of recovery (the preparation) provide as much health as the combined 2 casts of the charges (while above 50% health, more than half of the 2 charges while below).
the recharge of the preparation is 10 seconds while the count recharge of power return is 20 seconds.

mantra of recovery is the only mantra that might actually be better to cast fully and re-prepare than to just hold onto the final charge

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

1 hour ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Textbook definition of alacrity: "brisk and cheerful readiness"  ; "promptness in response : cheerful readiness" 

How doesn't that fit elementalist , which has 4 attunements on tap no matter what build is run? Not that giving alacrity and quickness to every class is a great idea, but I think elementalists would be one of the prime classes to receive alacrity as a shared boon if there is such a sweeping change.

Similarly the nerf to boon thief was baffling when instead trickery's Bountiful Theft could have shared quickness (and split to negligible in competitive) ; unlike engineers which would need to rely on turret for fury in 5 man situations thief could give it out with Thrill of the Crime if necessary. It is not as though Holosmith is underwhelming as DPS (both power and condi). DPS Scrapper isn't unplayable right now, Lucky Noobs has it at 33K and with the proposed Glass Cannon it would be middle of the pack DPS on par with what Reaper and Daredevil are right now.

How does that make alacrity fit elementalist? There's nothing about elementalist in particular that screams "I'm ready!"... by that logic, make Ranger Sharpening Stone give alacrity. You're preparing your weapons for combat. At that point, you are more ready than you were before.

[DoomNexus.5324]

Kind of sad to see conditions being pushed so hard as these changes will probably also affect sPvP to a large degree.

Without Resistance (or rather a very nerfed version of it) and an overall buff to condition builds across several classes I'm worried that sPvP will shift more towards a condi meta (sub p1/2 at least).

Since in a nutshell: Condi output will be increased and "counter play" is getting nerfed.

 

Maybe this won't be a problem in WvW as Zergs usually have enough support to cleanse conditions fast and high-tier sPvP also have better team compositions/coordination aka conditions also get cleansed most of the time. But my guess is that (un)ranked will be even more obnoxious than it currently is.

 

Hope Anet has some ace up their sleeve for non-AT sPvP before/when EoD hits. I'd honestly be really disappointed if the Cantha expansion brings no/little competitive content to the table.

[Jokuc.3478]

That change to ashes fixes a lot of issues, good change. I am not sure about the change to Chapter 2: Igniting Burst though, I feel like that one wasn't needed. I like cfb because it can stack a lot of burn quickly, makes it unique as a condi class. I also hope they don't look too much at fractal performance and remember to look at the performance in other instances.

 

While I'm at it I'd like to say that I really really do not like the change to Mantras. The final charges and preparations was kind of a charm with it and it gave some depth to the class. Instead of making Mantras more simple I suggest that you have them default to their "prepared" state and only need to be prepared again if you choose to use the final charge. Pretty please?

Edited May 6, 2021 by Jokuc.3478

[Atille.5047]

Will Chronomancer be finally untangled from relying on Slow and perhaps getting a real power damage burst in return to loss of it's potential as it stands now? The wording of "dominates all areas of the game" is incredibly off, since the only area chronomancer even existed in any form in PvE is 10-man content, and even then not exactly on every fight - chrono's been dead in fractals for years, not a common sight even in casual content like DRMs/Strikes and is rarely anyone's first choice even for Open World. Why wouldn't it use Quickness or Alacrity as source for Danger Time instead of a condition only it itself and a handful of other classes can even generate?

You're not going to be using Power Chrono with a Condi Firebrand, these aren't the builds you'll use together. Neither is Condi Rev and Power Chrono. The time warp nerf merely made stacking strat more annoying to use, but it will still work - especially considering that Time Catches Up is a broken trait (still doesn't work with Split Second properly) that adds about 300 dps, so it's a no brainer for all chronos involved to just run Delayed Reactions and throw in some random CCs to compensate for halved TW and maybe one chrono will be an STM (probably not).

Will Greatsword see the improvement you've claimed for it when you said you wanted to buff it, and then made it's trait compete with Empowered Illusions, effectively nerfing running Greatsword for a DPS build to the point of (currently) having about 10k of a gap, and that's giving up pull utility of Focus? Frankly, S/S/F is not only a much less exciting playstyle (sword autoattack spam isn't peak entertainment), but also superior one - not only vastly more DPS-capable, but also having a pull/whirl spam finisher in condi builds/reflect/cleanse capabilities. Wouldn't Chronophantasma function better if it simply doubled your phantasms, rather than delaying your clone generation to a crawl (since mystifyingly, most phantasms still don't work with Quickness they get from traits either)? 

Alacrity Mirage decision didn't fix "class representation" issue - it's still mesmer, Chrono already had alacrity. It was just nerfed to the point of being not worth doing over just having a Rev in there pressing 1 button for perfect uptime, without making anyone stand in wells (that is objectively not the design that works in this MMO in particular). I'm cautiously optimistic about what alamirage would do, however, but I think you need to give this spec at least some more boon support bones in actual traits - as it stands, absolutely nothing in Mirage is about helping this playstyle besides new Chaos Vortex. Some traits could use a facelift in this spec (and Chrono too, undoubtedly) to truly carve out this niche. 
 

[MooseFace.8924]

Take this with a grain of salt like all internet comments. I love that the team is trying to balance out build diversity in open world; so important for the health of the game. I play herald almost exclusively in open world and would love to see it become more viable, maybe even competitive, as a dps (or support) option in raids. The trait line just doesn’t seem competitive with renegade. I love the concept, but herald seems like it could use some PvE love. 

[Alik.9651]

After this post ... my only feeling is, why changing the boon/condition at the first place ...

Pain absorption is still a joke

do you guys know the Demon the only condition cleansing skill is staff#4 which you will not use a staff with Demon

"Buffing" !!??!? torment cannot compensate the above nerf, it just kill condition Rev in Open World and PvP and WvW

 

 

[Infusion.7149]

4 hours ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

How does that make alacrity fit elementalist? There's nothing about elementalist in particular that screams "I'm ready!"... by that logic, make Ranger Sharpening Stone give alacrity. You're preparing your weapons for combat. At that point, you are more ready than you were before.

First, Ranger is the one of the last classes to need buffs in PVE. It already has ranger spirits , spotter, One Wolf Pack for both power/condi (no idea why the cooldown was touched though), and druid as a backbone for group content.
Second, how would you propose that sharpening stone, a survival skill type, share alacrity? Tempests have auras (which ties into the sharing aspect), thieves have preparations as a skill type. Actually when you think about it, if you need to prepare your weapon you aren't actually always ready... but that's completely offtopic.

The major setback to tempest in PVE in terms of support is lack of unique buffs ; as a DPS it is okay provided you have large hitbox to reduce RNG but it's still reliant on fast attunement swapping along with fresh air. With the nerf to lightning orb it may not even be the case in the majority of content that the damage is decent. Elementalist is advertised as a flexible class with high damage and tempest is supposed to be support. 

Quote

Elementalists are multifaceted spellcasters who channel elemental forces, making fire, air, earth, and water do their bidding. What they lack in physical toughness, they make up for in versatility and the ability to inflict massive damage.

Tempest: 

Quote

Wielding an off-hand warhorn and utilizing shouts, tempests blast out elemental power to support allies at close range and deal constant damage to enemies. Tempests will be able to overload their attunements at the penalty of recharge in order to deliver high-pressure sustained damage, control, and healing to nearby areas.

If you look at the major PVE classes for 10 man content you have:

• Quickness providers: FB + chrono (nerfed very hard) , "new" scrapper (which requires quite high boon duration to be effective unless you run 2 in one subgroup), boon thief which is irrelevant for most of PVE outside a few raids (which was nerfed to 5 man so most people that don't have it geared aren't going to be making one)
• Alacrity : renegade (alac / RR), chrono (nerfed very hard) , mirage (yet to see how this pans out)
• Unique buffs requested commonly: Banner warriors sometimes with Empower Allies, soulbeast one wolf pack / druid with spirits and spotter , bane signet sharing on guardians , Assassin's Presence (revenant)
• Classes normally taken as DPS: weaver, holo (sometimes taken for Pinpoint Distribution), deadeye/daredevil everywhere detonate plasma is not run , reaper / condi scourge (if not running plaguedoctor hybrid  or healscourge)
  
  After the changes proposed for May 11 , the logical conclusion is if more offensive boons are spread out then thief and elementalist (tempest) would be prime targets. Instead of making thief support it was decided that thief needed a condi rework so that happened which could be decent (yet to be seen). A venomshare thief with Shadow Arts would probably be a niche pick for example.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Renny.6571]

Would the balance team please provide some further insight on the removal of Scrapper's grandmaster trait "Kinetic Stabilizers"? As others have said in thread, the addition of 2s quickness on superspeed in the form of "Kinetic Accelerators" does not compete with the boon support provided by other classes and severely limits the build options of the player to maintain uptime. It also has the side-effect of crippling many pvp and small-scale wvw scrapper builds in a meta where Holo is already the dominant specialization.

 

I've made a post in the Engineer subforum with an more detailed explanation, as well as provided an alternative method for implementing "Kinetic Accelerators" that does not serve to hinder scrapper builds outside of pve, provides a more streamlined approach to the entire specialization and also allows for further development of the "support scrapper" role. I would urge the balance team to please consider reading it. 

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Renny.6571

[KablamoBoom.5938]

Thank youuuuu

Was not looking forward to trying to find t4 groups after the patch. My god it's such a relief.