In wvw your 5 seconds of -33% isnt going to make pain absorption not a suicide button.

[Yasai.3549]

They should tweak Demonic Defiance since it is used mostly with Mallyx skills in the first place. 

 

Here's what they should have done : 

Gain Resolution whenever yu use a Legendary Demon Skill.

Increase Resolution's damage reduction to 50%.

And for good measure, change Mallyx heal to absorb and remove conditions.
 

[Clownmug.8357]

41 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

They should tweak Demonic Defiance since it is used mostly with Mallyx skills in the first place. 

 

Here's what they should have done : 

Gain Resolution whenever yu use a Legendary Demon Skill.

Increase Resolution's damage reduction to 50%.

And for good measure, change Mallyx heal to absorb and remove conditions.
 

 

Seems like a good idea but it'd require giving Rev an adept tier trait that does more than 1 thing, and that kind of treatment is only available for certain professions.

[Yasai.3549]

1 hour ago, Clownmug.8357 said:

 

Seems like a good idea but it'd require giving Rev an adept tier trait that does more than 1 thing, and that kind of treatment is only available for certain professions.

With how singularly focused Rev's Traitlines are, they can't afford not to do this, especially with traits which only interact with ONE Legend. 

Alternatively they can move this trait to master tier and move Abyssal Chill or Demonic Resistance down to Adept tier. 
I'm more in favour of moving Abyssal Chill so that Mallyx builds cannot grab both Demonic Defiance and Demonic Resistance together.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

13 hours ago, lodjur.1284 said:

 

You found the actual problem right at the end there. 

 

 blocks/evades/invulns a common problem in gw2. Dragon heal, staff/shield and high uptime of invuln to condi damage were issues, getting a couple hundred healing/sec when within melee with 5 people, not a problem, during the spikes maybe even a thousand or two in a sec. Thing is 5 people in melee with you should be doing far far more dmg than 2000/sec to you. 

 

If you look at most melee builds that are viable in WvW most of em have similar passives

 

Yet it is what a lot of groups (and single players) did against me and my group where the transfer+resistance was the entire strategy. In this context I'm talking about some self proclaimed try hard groups.

 

Even in other groups it wasn't uncommon to for example easily win the 3v4 against a group, 5 min later they come back with a Herald 20 sec into fight we all got 25 stacks of Torment with Herald having done nothing but pain abso and true nature - demon. Suddenly that same group that before died in 15 sec and didn't get anyone low is major threat. All because of transfer Herald, this happened very frequently, usually one could still win but not always.

 

This should more or less have fixed the issue. Since this strategy was extremely dominant in smallscale.

 

You don't need it on both weapon sets you just need planning, in fact having it on both ends up clunkier imo. One just needs to get into the pattern of swapping Legend more or less right before weapon swap every time and you can proc it every 10. This isn't very difficult to do when needed (when you're in the thick of it).

 

Sigil of Cleansing is better on Rev than most other classes because we have it fit better into our rotation and cqn have better control over it than other classes.

 

Banish and Pain abso is all I see Heralds do (and other defensive stuff). 

Trying to throw your weight around because you get

 

I make my own opinions by testing. 

 

I never had issues with condi on power Renegade. Clears on power Rev might be tied to the Sigil, but the Sigil is extremely good atm.

I have post patch used Pain Absorption to save allies. It still works for this purpose. The skill now carries a risk, which fits the theme of mallyx and the still high power level of group resistance. 

 

Mallyx is supposed to be a high risk high reward legends, like new PA and EtD+Torment Runes, the stuff that nullifies the risk is what should be changed (old PA, staff, infuse light, shield, etc) not torment Runes, had they nerfed those it would've fixed nothing except nuking all non-herald versions.

 

Yes ofc it is weaker, but being able to get several people out of immob (and the other annoying stuff) is good.

 

Honestly I've  barely ever stunbroken with it, it's simply too expensive and it gives no stab so if you're in a spot where there is CC, you just get CCed again.

 

If you don't want people to say you don't have basic situational awareness don't say things that imply you don't. Knowing what friendly players are around you and if they're a liability Def falls into that category

 

Also stop  trying to throw some weight around it's just kinda silly, you're not intimidating anyone nor do these claims impress me, whether fabricated or not (not calling you a liar, just saying I honestly don't care). By any metric I fall into "top players" I just specifically avoid these kinda silly kitten measuring contests and exclusively post from my second account specifically to avoid em. I am simply judging you based on the things you say.

 

I am no stripping you of anything, simply letting what you say speak for itself, completely without any prejudice for or against it.

 

I want condi Rev/Ren (not herald) to get buffs in healthy ways now, it is only slightly weaker than last patch but the areas that it lost were hugely problematic. Banish is one of the few very unhealthy parts of condi rev that's left. 

 

If you were arguing for a completely different skill instead of PA I would agree with you, but you seem to want old PA (an extremely carrying skill) back in the game, when it's removal helped smallscale immensely. 

I don't think we're going to see eye to eye on this so I don't feel like discussing it further with you.  I'm not trying to "throw my weight around" or "intimidate" you; I'm merely defending myself from your low and highkey "L2P" accusations.  I clearly understand the class and play it at a high level regardless of your opinions on the matter.  General consensus on Revenant's issues (like low cleanse) is also clear despite any personal feelings on the matter.  I don't feel I need to respond further since conversation keeps drifting back to "my perceived skill level" instead of focused on what matters, which is my main argument that Pain Absorption's current design does not work well on a fundamental game design level.   Obviously there are some ways to use it in practical settings that won't get you killed, but those still generally go against the intended use of the skill.  I haven't offered many thoughts on how to "fix" the skill for the current meta, merely pointed out that the mentality of needing to tell people to cancel a stunbreak as part of the innate design of a skill in order to not kill yourself is inherently bad and confusing design and not what the game needs.  This is my last post on this back and forth between us since I don't find this argument to be in Good Faith any longer. 

Edited May 13, 2021 by LucianTheAngelic.7054

[lodjur.1284]

47 minutes ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

I don't think we're going to see eye to eye on this so I don't feel like discussing it further with you.  I'm not trying to "throw my weight around" or "intimidate" you; I'm merely defending myself from your low and highkey "L2P" accusations.  I clearly understand the class and play it at a high level regardless of your opinions on the matter.  General consensus on Revenant's issues (like low cleanse) is also clear despite any personal feelings on the matter.  I don't feel I need to respond further since conversation keeps drifting back to "my perceived skill level" instead of focused on what matters, which is my main argument that Pain Absorption's current design does not work well on a fundamental game design level.   Obviously there are some ways to use it in practical settings that won't get you killed, but those still generally go against the intended use of the skill.  I haven't offered many thoughts on how to "fix" the skill for the current meta, merely pointed out that the mentality of needing to tell people to cancel a stunbreak as part of the innate design of a skill in order to not kill yourself is inherently bad and confusing design and not what the game needs.  This is my last post on this back and forth between us. 

I assume nothing about your skill level. I simply reply to stuff you said, if that stuff would imply you play poorly, I'll reply as such, should it imply well, I'll reply as such. You're the one who kept bringing it up.

 

Saying that keeping an eye on who is around you is something you shouldn't have to do, implies something, I'll let you guess what.

 

Had you said "Resistance was a mechanic that carried people through stuff they had no business surviving and enabled degenerate gameplay with transfers", that would have implied something else, I'll let you guess what. 

 

Saying that a skill carrying some degree of risk is inherently bad, implies something, I'll let you guess what.

 

I am not judging your statements based on their source, I am judging their content

 

I tell that to the people who say that they can't use it as just a stunbreak, it's called providing info.

 

Personally I never cancel it, because I haven't ever had to.

Edited May 13, 2021 by lodjur.1284

[Yasai.3549]

1 hour ago, lodjur.1284 said:

Saying that a skill carrying some degree of risk is inherently bad, implies something, I'll let you guess what.

 

I am not judging your statements based on their source, I am judging their content

 

I tell that to the people who say that they can't use it as just a stunbreak, it's called providing info.

 

Personally I never cancel it, because I haven't ever had to.

I've been reading all yur comments and I have no idea how yu managed to address this as a l2p issue regarding Mallyx stunbreak potentially killing the user. 

Who's supposed to l2p here? The teammates who have to instinctively move away from their CC'd Mallyx teammate? The Mallyx user who has to just take the CC because stunbreaking could kill them? 

This skill as it stands creates a deathtrap for Mallyx users in teamfights or zerg v zerg, so is the only way to play around it to not play Mallyx? 

God forbid Stunbreaks were simple and just broke out of a stun anymore. 
Revs have too much on their plate already without having to play a "should I cancel my stunbreak" minigame for a risk which never should have been implemented into a defensive utility.

Imagine if say, a Thief's Shadow Step had a 50% chance to immobilize them when they cast it, or a Warrior's Balanced Stance had a 30% chance to double crit damage they take. 

[lodjur.1284]

19 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

I've been reading all yur comments and I have no idea how yu managed to address this as a l2p issue regarding Mallyx stunbreak potentially killing the user. 

Who's supposed to l2p here? The teammates who have to instinctively move away from their CC'd Mallyx teammate? The Mallyx user who has to just take the CC because stunbreaking could kill them? 

This skill as it stands creates a deathtrap for Mallyx users in teamfights or zerg v zerg, so is the only way to play around it to not play Mallyx? 

God forbid Stunbreaks were simple and just broke out of a stun anymore. 
Revs have too much on their plate already without having to play a "should I cancel my stunbreak" minigame for a risk which never should have been implemented into a defensive utility.

Imagine if say, a Thief's Shadow Step had a 50% chance to immobilize them when they cast it, or a Warrior's Balanced Stance had a 30% chance to double crit damage they take. 

 

I am using it actively, I have no issues.

 

The mallyx user, who shouldn't use a skill that transfers condis to themselves, without a way ready to deal with it.

 

Rev doesn't need to be easier.

 

Those are RNG, there's nothing RNG about current pain abso, it is completely deterministic.

Edited May 13, 2021 by lodjur.1284

[Yasai.3549]

7 hours ago, lodjur.1284 said:

 

The mallyx user, who shouldn't use a skill that transfers condis to themselves, without a way ready to deal with it.

 

 

Oh man I'm so glad yu understand this, but somehow yu can't understand that what Anet has done was exactly the opposite of this.

 

Mallyx right now has no way to use this "Condi draw" skill without a way to deal with it, which would have been fine if this skill wasn't tied to their Stunbreak which is essential to survival in competitive.

 

Stunbreaks are something Rev has had severe issues with since removal of Stunbreak from Invocation. This is made even more glaring with most Rev builds gravitating toward melee combat.

 

If yu had any real experience with Rev at all, yu will know this to be a problem and why Stunbreaks are so precious to Rev's kit, as well as the true reason people don't really run Ventari anymore.

 

I'm calling it that yu have never played Rev in depth. Yu havr no idea what is going on at all with state of Rev.

[lodjur.1284]

4 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Oh man I'm so glad yu understand this, but somehow yu can't understand that what Anet has done was exactly the opposite of this.

 

Mallyx right now has no way to use this "Condi draw" skill without a way to deal with it, which would have been fine if this skill wasn't tied to their Stunbreak which is essential to survival in competitive.

So burst clearing up to 11 condis over 1-2 sec isn't a way of dealing with condis (swap is 6>jalis heal). 

 

Nah stunbreaks that don't move you/give you 2+ stacks of stab/invuln (or some other way or ensuring you don't get CCed within 1 sec) are just a waste on a melee build. 

 

Quote

Stunbreaks are something Rev has had severe issues with since removal of Stunbreak from Invocation. This is made even more glaring with most Rev builds gravitating toward melee combat.

 

Maybe you have an issue, but stunbreaks remove just a single stun, which isn't that valuable in a game with this much CC. It has times when it's crucial.

 

Besides, you can cancel pain abso if you for some very strange reason need a stunbreak but are scared of taking the condis. In fact in most times when you use it to stunbreak, your enemies will even do that for you.

 

The few times I do stunbreak with it, I usually cancel it instantly with a dodge anyway as it's pretty much a last resort to get out of something truly horrible, and I don't got time to do a one cast, then nothing changed. But usually even in stuff like grav well or ghastly breach, the 30 mallyx energy cost isn't worth it, as I am there to do pressure.

 

The only thing I can't do anymore is run around fully immune to condis for 15+ seconds by hitting 1 key twice. Seems reasonable to get nerfed. 

 

Quote

If yu had any real experience with Rev at all, yu will know this to be a problem and why Stunbreaks are so precious to Rev's kit, as well as the true reason people don't really run Ventari anymore.

People never really ran ventari (in WvW that is, it had a decap build in sPvP and sees use in PvE afaik) the problem is the tablet and how it's not really possible to heal people effectively with the combination of small radius and cd on moving it. 

 

In fact if your tablet is in place, ventari deals with being stunned quite well, because it's skills are instant.

Quote

I'm calling it that yu have never played Rev in depth. Yu havr no idea what is going on at all with state of Rev.

This is funny after such a post. People just need to accept the removal of skills that carry them.  Hopefully infuse light and staff is next. 

 

I am however in favor of a cost reduction to PA as it's really no longer a 30 energy skill. Or a complete rework into something completely different. 

Edited May 14, 2021 by lodjur.1284

[Charybdis.3695]

6 hours ago, lodjur.1284 said:

In fact if your tablet is in place, ventari deals with being stunned quite well, because it's skills are instant.

This is why I've had no issues running as a hybrid condi healer with Mallyx and Ventari herald in WvW for the past couple years and post patch. PA is uniquely supportive, the stunbreak is just a bonus imo. Those who need panic button stunbreak playstyles should stick to the other legends.

[Scoobaniec.9561]

Comments of some people in this thread is among one of the reasons why rev became a dogshit starting all the way from beta and screaming for a wep swap..

[Sereath.1428]

16 hours ago, lodjur.1284 said:

 

It sounds like you are a very mechanically gifted player if everything you do with Revenant feels that easy and powerful, especially Herald. Maybe you should start streaming or making some videos so players could learn a thing or two.

[Yasai.3549]

16 hours ago, Echo.6310 said:

PA is uniquely supportive, the stunbreak is just a bonus imo. Those who need panic button stunbreak playstyles should stick to the other legends.

This is such a massively backwards way of looking at Mallyx skill lineup. 
PA should have always been a Stunbreak first and foremost before being a supportive Condi pull. 

The evidence in this is that Mallyx since its introduction to the game has always had a Targeted leap, specifically to entertain his playstyle of a bruiser-esque Condi dealer. (It was originally called Unyielding Anguish which was basically Call to Anguish without the pull in) 

The whole sthick of Mallyx drawing and harboring Condis on himself, and Empowering Misery not consuming conditions is because of an old, long phased out trait called Bolstered Anguish, which increased yur damage dealt based on how many Conditions were affecting yu. 

In fact, ever since Bolstered Anguish was removed from the game, PA should cease to draw conditions from allies, because there is no longer even a proper playstyle to support the logic behind it. Now with the Resistance rework, and coupled with PA not giving any long duration Resolution, and no other passives to support harboring of conditions, PA should just cease to pull Condis. 

Just because yu magically run a bunker setup with Ventari + Mallyx, does not validate PA being utter shyte in its current state right now. If a skill is only truly useful when paired with a single setup, is the said skill really worth using in the first place? And if such is the case, isn't this literally a dead skill in a locked loadout?

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by Yasai.3549

[lodjur.1284]

11 hours ago, XxsdgxX.8109 said:

It sounds like you are a very mechanically gifted player if everything you do with Revenant feels that easy and powerful, especially Herald. Maybe you should start streaming or making some videos so players could learn a thing or two.

Honestly, too much effort to make videos, I even record and got a few hundred GB of fights I consider good saved up, I just can't get myself to make videos out of it, care to be my editor?

 

Also imo, I am not the most mechanically gifted player out there, I'd say those areas are what I consider to be my biggest weaknesses as a players, assuming you mean "mechanically" as in reaction speed, fine motoric skills, etc, where I am at an acceptable level but far from perfect. When it comes to knowing what to do in what situations and remembering the plethora of skills and mechanics this game have, I do consider myself relatively gifted

 

4 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

This is such a massively backwards way of looking at Mallyx skill lineup. 
PA should have always been a Stunbreak first and foremost before being a supportive Condi pull. 

The evidence in this is that Mallyx since its introduction to the game has always had a Targeted leap, specifically to entertain his playstyle of a bruiser-esque Condi dealer. (It was originally called Unyielding Anguish which was basically Call to Anguish without the pull in) 

The whole sthick of Mallyx drawing and harboring Condis on himself, and Empowering Misery not consuming conditions is because of an old, long phased out trait called Bolstered Anguish, which increased yur damage dealt based on how many Conditions were affecting yu. 

In fact, ever since Bolstered Anguish was removed from the game, PA should cease to draw conditions from allies, because there is no longer even a proper playstyle to support the logic behind it. Now with the Resistance rework, and coupled with PA not giving any long duration Resolution, and no other passives to support harboring of conditions, PA should just cease to pull Condis. 

Just because yu magically run a bunker setup with Ventari + Mallyx, does not validate PA being utter shyte in its current state right now. If a skill is only truly useful when paired with a single setup, is the said skill really worth using in the first place? And if such is the case, isn't this literally a dead skill in a locked loadout?

 

Actually Unyielding Anguish was very different from Call To Anguish as it was actually the primary damage dealing skill on Condi Rev at the time, which you would often use 2-3+ times ontop of yourself just to stack the damage. Whereas Call To Anguish is a cc skill primarily with the movement being useful, but kinda secondary.

 

Pain Absorption does give a rather long duration of resolution, longer than most conditions you pull for sure (and longer than you'd want any of them to stick to you).

 

Also I run a Mallyx + Jalis setup and have no issues with the conditions being pulled. I wouldn't mind it losing the transfer tho, nor do I really mind it keeping it. But every reasonable setup of stances can easily survive using it once or twice unless you use it dumb

Edited May 15, 2021 by lodjur.1284

[Scoobaniec.9561]

1 hour ago, lodjur.1284 said:

Actually Unyielding Anguish was very different from Call To Anguish as it was actually the primary damage dealing skill on Condi Rev at the time, which you would often use 2-3+ times ontop of yourself just to stack the damage. Whereas Call To Anguish is a cc skill primarily with the movement being useful, but kinda secondary.

Actually it was even more different. It applied directly some torment+displacement mechanic which ignored stability completely. Nobody in melee could touch you as long you were inside the aoe. It also made decapping nodes rather an easy and quick work regardless of who was there

[Scoobaniec.9561]

5 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

The whole sthick of Mallyx drawing and harboring Condis on himself, and Empowering Misery not consuming conditions is because of an old, long phased out trait called Bolstered Anguish, which increased yur damage dealt based on how many Conditions were affecting yu. 

In fact, ever since Bolstered Anguish was removed from the game, PA should cease to draw conditions from allies, because there is no longer even a proper playstyle to support the logic behind it. Now with the Resistance rework, and coupled with PA not giving any long duration Resolution, and no other passives to support harboring of conditions, PA should just cease to pull Condis. 


 

Not eve. EtD used to copy all conditions on you every sec and that was the primary use of drawing conditions. Bolstered trait increased now called "strike" damage not condition one. It was all about EtD playstyle early on which got destroyed before it made it into launch of expansion

[lodjur.1284]

29 minutes ago, Scoobaniec.9561 said:

Actually it was even more different. It applied directly some torment+displacement mechanic which ignored stability completely. Nobody in melee could touch you as long you were inside the aoe. It also made decapping nodes rather an easy and quick work regardless of who was there

I am not above admitting when I am wrong, you're right, I had completely forgotten about the original version, didn't play condi rev at that point, more accurately barely played at that point and was mostly focusing on getting my WvW gear then iirc. I only remembered when it was essentially your main dmg skill

Edited May 15, 2021 by lodjur.1284

[Yasai.3549]

54 minutes ago, Scoobaniec.9561 said:

Not eve. EtD used to copy all conditions on you every sec and that was the primary use of drawing conditions. Bolstered trait increased now called "strike" damage not condition one. It was all about EtD playstyle early on which got destroyed before it made it into launch of expansion

This is something new to me then. 
Then the entire "Mallyx harboring Conditions" playstyle was essentially half dead on arrival to launch. 

Resistance was abundant on Mallyx because they were kinda designed to harbor Condis to make themselves stronger, but if all the reasons for harboring are gone, and Mallyx's Condi resistance/immunity is shaved off in this fashion, there is even more reason to not draw Condis then. 

Core Rev is such a mess. First Shiro, now Mallyx. 

[Scoobaniec.9561]

7 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

This is something new to me then. 
Then the entire "Mallyx harboring Conditions" playstyle was essentially half dead on arrival to launch. 

Resistance was abundant on Mallyx because they were kinda designed to harbor Condis to make themselves stronger, but if all the reasons for harboring are gone, and Mallyx's Condi resistance/immunity is shaved off in this fashion, there is even more reason to not draw Condis then. 

Core Rev is such a mess. First Shiro, now Mallyx. 

Ofc its new. Many of revs here are new. This is back from 2015 describting EtD. 

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/revenant-the-master-of-the-mists/

 

Legendary Demon Stance

“Invoke the power of the legendary demon Mallyx the Unyielding.”

Demon stance focuses on conditions, with a twist. Let’s call it condition manipulation. Instead of dealing with conditions in the traditional sense—mostly by removing them—your approach to conditions as a revenant is all about accumulating them in order to empower your attacks. The more conditions you have, the stronger and more impactful your demon legend skills will become. Let’s look at an example.

 

Embrace the Darkness

“Summon the power of the legendary demon to transform into a powerful avatar. Increase all attributes, and copy conditions to nearby foes every few seconds.”

• This is an example of an upkeep skill. You can activate (and deactivate) this mode at any time as long as you have the energy necessary to keep paying the upkeep cost of the skill. All Legendary Demon Stance skills apply a condition to the revenant, similar to a necromancer’s corruption utility skills. In this case, you’ll apply torment to yourself so that, at a minimum, you will be pulsing out torment to nearby foes while this skill is active.

 

This is why im so kitten pissed off about revenant in current state. It is nothing of what it meant to be back from release. 0 vision. Skills without any logic behind them (looking at you swords)

 

Just a reminder that weapon skills cost energy cuz they WERE MEANT TO HAVE LOW CDS AS TRADEOFF AND THAT CONCEPT WAS DESTROYED LONG AGO.  Yet here we are and they still cost energy. Slapped cooldowns on utility skills and raised to ridiculous levels (again against concept of rev reverse mechanic to the thief ini system). Theres nothing left from original revenant apart from the fancy looking skills.

 

Mallyx was supposed to get reworked at some point post launch due to the EtD change in beta to a torment bot but Roy moved on so it never really happened. Few years later and here we are rev still a huge mess with no vision

[Scoobaniec.9561]

Also for reference bw1 skills of Mallyx

https://i.imgur.com/dcDT5xu.jpg

 

Notice the insane synergy and compare to current Mallyx and how this legend was ruined.

Honestly how hard it can be to rework a bundle kit?

 

[ScottBroChill.3254]

22 hours ago, Scoobaniec.9561 said:

Ofc its new. Many of revs here are new. This is back from 2015 describting EtD. 

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/revenant-the-master-of-the-mists/

 

Legendary Demon Stance

“Invoke the power of the legendary demon Mallyx the Unyielding.”

Demon stance focuses on conditions, with a twist. Let’s call it condition manipulation. Instead of dealing with conditions in the traditional sense—mostly by removing them—your approach to conditions as a revenant is all about accumulating them in order to empower your attacks. The more conditions you have, the stronger and more impactful your demon legend skills will become. Let’s look at an example.

 

Embrace the Darkness

“Summon the power of the legendary demon to transform into a powerful avatar. Increase all attributes, and copy conditions to nearby foes every few seconds.”

• This is an example of an upkeep skill. You can activate (and deactivate) this mode at any time as long as you have the energy necessary to keep paying the upkeep cost of the skill. All Legendary Demon Stance skills apply a condition to the revenant, similar to a necromancer’s corruption utility skills. In this case, you’ll apply torment to yourself so that, at a minimum, you will be pulsing out torment to nearby foes while this skill is active.

 

This is why im so kitten pissed off about revenant in current state. It is nothing of what it meant to be back from release. 0 vision. Skills without any logic behind them (looking at you swords)

 

Just a reminder that weapon skills cost energy cuz they WERE MEANT TO HAVE LOW CDS AS TRADEOFF AND THAT CONCEPT WAS DESTROYED LONG AGO.  Yet here we are and they still cost energy. Slapped cooldowns on utility skills and raised to ridiculous levels (again against concept of rev reverse mechanic to the thief ini system). Theres nothing left from original revenant apart from the fancy looking skills.

 

Mallyx was supposed to get reworked at some point post launch due to the EtD change in beta to a torment bot but Roy moved on so it never really happened. Few years later and here we are rev still a huge mess with no vision

This is my biggest pet peave with the whole revenant class. Every legend and skill and trait seems to just be randomly slapped together and has no theme to it. The only legend with a theme to it is Glint, but that's because the class was obviously designed around having glint on the skill bar. It's a really good neutral legend that provides all the essentials for combat, it may not provide the largest damage boost but it has low cost skills, the potential best heal in the game, boon generation, a basically free stunbreak, cc, and pretty cohesive and decent traits. You bring in renegade and now you have a condi spec that focuses on ferocity and fury? What is going on here. It is overpowered in its might and fury generation, focuses on bleeds which tend to be unaffected by our pure condi traitline corruption, an insane elite that is(was) overpowered in every build but was stronger with power due to stats or whatever, provides permanent alacrity for some stupid reason as to only give it more meta spots in parties, etc. Jalis is great now with all it's added sustain through the years but it always seemed like hammer was supposed to go with this legend/traitline but hammer just feels so out of place. Pretty sure hammer was just a cool concept but doesn't really belong. Shiro is supposed to be the mobile/dmg traitline and legend but it provides almost the same survivability as jalis due to insane  lifesteal. At this point shiro, jalis, and kalla seem really redundant because of how much sustain they all provide. The centaur is a cool concept and has a lot of direct healing but does nothing to synergize with legend swapping and how the rest of the class plays making it a fish out of water. No point in bringing it outside of a complete heal build when it really should be able to provide self healing and sustain a little easier but it's lack of stunbreak make it pointless for self sustainability. And then since we're all talking about mallyx I don't really need to delve deep into that one. They tried to double down on the old concept by remaking traits to add more condi's to yourself and the ability to transfer them with the grandmaster, but they just took away the boon that makes this viable. Maybe it still works though with all the condi damage reducing traits and the new resolution (is that the one?) adding up to make it more like 90% dmg reduction, but still most likely a suicide button.

 

tldr; they just slapped a bunch of random powerful skills on skill bars and colored them all the same to make it seem cohesive and strong, but the concepts just seem weird to me and extremely unfocused. The only thing tying the class together is the overpowered elite specs that provide everything and a couple random, yet extremely powerful skills/traits.

[Buran.3796]

On 5/15/2021 at 5:45 PM, Scoobaniec.9561 said:

 

 

Just a reminder that weapon skills cost energy cuz they WERE MEANT TO HAVE LOW CDS AS TRADEOFF AND THAT CONCEPT WAS DESTROYED LONG AGO.  Yet here we are and they still cost energy. Slapped cooldowns on utility skills and raised to ridiculous levels (again against concept of rev reverse mechanic to the thief ini system). Theres nothing left from original revenant apart from the fancy looking skills.

 

   Is not that different to what happened to the Firebrand, one of the strongest (specially in PvP) specs from the PoF release. Used to have huge damage due the large symbols which procced burns and dealt large physical and condition damage while having a lot of sustain because the healing mantra was strong and traited with heals on shattered aegis was even tronger. So mixing celestial & grieving you had a powerhouse: big AoE damage with huge sustain and plenty of tools (15 F skills + utilities). But what remains from that? Symbols in WvW/PvP no longer expand to 360 units while traited, they also no longer proc the F1 burns and therefore the dps is gone; the mantra is now amongst the worst heals in the game and the axe a slow hitting weapon which is easy to interrupt. Firebrand is still strong in PvE but for other game modes feels utterly useless: worse support than core, worse damage than DH, worse sustain than both of them, weak utilities on top of a weak weapon in a class with low base HP and inherently bad mobility. I like playing FB in PvE, but in PvP/WvW just feels atrocius.

 

   I think that Rev lost sense in terms of design over the nerfs and cooldown additions over the years, despite being strong at every game mode at the moment, but what bothers me the most is that it has functionality issues not related to balance (as the loadouts resetting the skills) which should have been fixed long ago and they not only remain broken but also ANet doesn't give a **** about to stttle them.