Power Creep is Out of Control

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

This isnt just about the latest patch but the last few years of major patches, elite specs from PoF and HoT, and trait/utility reworks. I fully understand that big changes keep the game fresh by creating new builds, new roles in groups, and new playstyles, but after years of what seems like careless design and lazy balancing we are just left with a mess. This is such a big issue that I dont even know where to start, so this will probably just be a rant.

 

In pve power creep is usually less noticeable unless you are a more hardcore player who tests builds in raids/fractals, but there have been a lot of changes over the years that make even casual players question the reason behind it. I remember back when reaper was king of open world content, you had a 2 big health pools and great aoe damage. What more could you want? Well now we have insanely powerful traits and runes that practically play the game for you. Battle scars on revenant, tormenting runes, 1000s of passive barrier per second from scrappers impact savant and necros blood bank... and many others. In open world self sufficiency is the most important part of your build, and there is a huge contrast between the effectiveness of different classes and their traits. Why on earth would anyone play a class or build without one of these insane traits that practically make you unkillable? Additionally, why would anyone play a class or build that has limited access to self might, fury, quickness and other important boons? I get that they might be more fun, but when it comes to farming content hundreds of times or playing through tedious story missions, eventually every person will ask if its worth making things unnecessarily difficult.

 

And then there is the class design itself, which leads into wvw and pvp. Elite specs like firebrand and scourge are insanely strong with the group utility they bring. Having elite specs focused on support is fine, but the issue with these two in particular is they can still provide their incredibly strong utility with little to no investment into supportive stats or traits. So again you have to ask the question, why would you want to bring a support class that needs to actively build for and use support skills when you can bring classes that can do it passively or while dpsing? With the latest patch we have seen mirage and scrapper get the same kind of passive support options. While scrapper might not be as strong in pve, it follows the trend where every update to their traits adds more passive features in the form of quickness, superspeed, barrier, stability...

 

Wvw is such a mess that I dont even really understand how fights work even though i have participated in thousands of them over the years. In zerg fights there is just so much boon generation, then corrupting, then cleansing/converting into boons again, which get corrupted again... and so on. The only way you can play that way is if you learn to filter out all the visual noise and spam that isnt important, which largely comes down to "when/where is the enemy going to bomb, do i have superspeed, do i have stab, can i even see the commander tag". As for small scale, it largely has the same issues as open world pve where there are some blatantly overpowered traits and gear options that practically make people immortal unless they are outnumbered. In its current state, i think the only thing that could help wvw would be to do something drastic such as remove the target cap on certain skills and hope it encourages a more diverse, healthy meta.

 

And then there is pvp. I am honestly the most disappointed with how pvp has been treated because it is meant to be structured and competitive. Over the last few months we have actually seen some very good changes that were pushing the meta in the right direction and away from gimmicky degenerate builds. But with this latest patch, even though it is still new and things are uncertain, it has undeniably buffed/created some of the worst kinds of builds the gamemode has ever seen.

 

If this patch was meant to be the precursor to the End of Dragons expansion, then i am seriously concerned about what kind of class design and build types the design team thinks is acceptable. Gw2 arguably has the best combat system of any mmo, yet these types of power crept patches and expansions are trivializing combat and making interesting playstyles and class mechanics obsolete.

 

 

 

[Kuma.1503]

My favorite part is Mirage staff ambush. 

 

"Hey we made this skill super powerful now" 

 

..."Oh btw you still only have one dodge have fun facetanking at least you got alacrity now!"

 

 

 

 

 

[Jski.6180]

It is mostly due to anet un split and non split of effect from game types as well as balancing all dmg form all classes to be about the same with out any mind on the boon types these classes push out.

 

At the end of the day dps is one true target in pve and support is 5-10 targets.

[Infusion.7149]

3 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

My favorite part is Mirage staff ambush. 

 

"Hey we made this skill super powerful now" 

 

..."Oh btw you still only have one dodge have fun facetanking at least you got alacrity now!"

 

 

 

 

 

It's 2 dodges in PVE, which is what the changes were oriented to.

That said, I fully expect staff mirage's DPS or alacrity boon duration to be nerfed. In the past Arenanet stated they want melee range damage to exceed that of higher ranged ones and right now it is on par or exceeding mirage axe.

----
That said , I'm not sure why scrapper was given quickness since it just breaks it in WvW while being not as good as firebrand in PVE. The latest benchmarks have StM chrono at ~18K so it's effectively dead for the majority of the playerbase because it takes far more effort than spamming mantras on cooldown on CQB (~28K) / pQB (~23K).

It's a similar issue with nerfing boon thief while not affording it quickness elsewhere. It means everyone who made one has gear that is effectively useless when you need 2 boon thieves instead of 1.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[XenesisII.1540]

Not even anet knows what their classes are suppose to do anymore. Giving alacrity to mirage was so kitten laughable.

 

"Gais lets change mirage from dps to support role in raids, shove some alacrity and might on them."

"But what about chronomancers?"

"Listen, I don't care about final fantasy 14 classes, just put in the alacrity now!"

"but what about the one dodge in wvw?"

"Listen, I don't care about elder scrolls pvp, just put in the alacrity now now now!"

"Ooookay..."

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by XenesisII.1540

[felix.2386]

11 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

My favorite part is Mirage staff ambush. 

 

"Hey we made this skill super powerful now" 

 

..."Oh btw you still only have one dodge have fun facetanking at least you got alacrity now!"

 

 

 

 

 

it's funny you say that because people were dominating with mirage pre patch and conquest rank 2 in NA is a mirage.

maybe stop facing tank and start pressing skill?

 

and there are mirage streamers in wvw winning 1v3 roaming post patch with new staff build

Edited May 15, 2021 by felix.2386

[Jski.6180]

At this point i say lean into the power creep and overwhelm anet with the demand for it. They pushed it too far at this point and there is no going back. Anet has messed up and its the doom of the game and EoD at this point.

 

Give every class EVERY CLASS even cores alacrity or quinkess. The ship has sailed for good balancing.

Edited May 15, 2021 by Jski.6180

[Buran.3796]

4 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

Give every class EVERY CLASS even cores alacrity or quinkess. The ship has sailed for good balancing.

   Why? I don't really understand why Revs have alacrity; is good for team play but for solo how having shorter cooldowns does help me in any way since I still must to spend energy to cast those skills on top of paying Orders From Above...  For me Herald > core > Renegade, not even counting how much I dislike the Kalla skills. Also, quickness or not, Firebrand is currently the weakest Guardian spec for PvP and the worst PvP spec from  PoF...

Edited May 15, 2021 by Buran.3796

[Jski.6180]

3 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

   Why? I don't really understand why Revs have alacrity; is good for team play but for solo how having shorter cooldowns does help me in any way since I still must to spend energy to cast those skills on top of paying Orders From Above...  For me Herald > core > Renegade, not even counting how much I dislike the Kalla skills. Also, quickness or not, Firebrand is currently the weakest Guardian spec for PvP and the worst PvP spec from  PoF...

Its the only way to be viable in this game any more the power creep has hit a critical point where if you wish to be a dps player or an support player you need an aggrieve boon alacrity or quickness. Any class with out these effects are simply left out of all game types.

[Sobx.1758]

14 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

Its the only way to be viable in this game any more the power creep has hit a critical point where if you wish to be a dps player or an support player you need an aggrieve boon alacrity or quickness. Any class with out these effects are simply left out of all game types.

It's not, you don't need ala access to be viable.

[Jski.6180]

2 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

It's not, you don't need ala access to be viable.

I am all for taking alacrity away from the classes that have it now mostly the ones just added and on very low cd but i do not think that going to happen. Anet made an active chose of adding these boons to classes whom did not have them before as strong support effects. It was massive power creep for thoughts classes that has comply left the other classes behind in all game types. So i do not see why any class should be with out.

[Obtena.7952]

8 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

I am all for taking alacrity away from the classes that have it now mostly the ones just added and on very low cd but i do not think that going to happen. Anet made an active chose of adding these boons to classes whom did not have them before as strong support effects. It was massive power creep for thoughts classes that has comply left the other classes behind in all game types. So i do not see why any class should be with out.

That really doesn't make sense ... no class is left behind because you can play what you want and be successful. Even the worst have -not classes can do that. It's got nothing to do with power creep. It's got everything to do with choices players make in playing the game. 

Edited May 15, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Jski.6180]

6 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That really doesn't make sense ... no class is left behind because you can play what you want and be successful. Even the worst have -not classes can do that. It's got nothing to do with power creep. It's got everything to do with choices players make in playing the game. 

But they are if your missing cdr for your group or an faster skill cast for your group your missing a massive part of the current power creep. Sure at one point it was ok not for every class to have good might up time or good healing support but now nearly every class has it in one way or another. That how power creep works it creeps in classes effect but to do the creeping way classes are often left out. So in a way i am trying to lose the creep part and just let anet re-balanced the power scaling faster this time.

[Sobx.1758]

41 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

I am all for taking alacrity away from the classes that have it now mostly the ones just added and on very low cd but i do not think that going to happen. Anet made an active chose of adding these boons to classes whom did not have them before as strong support effects. It was massive power creep for thoughts classes that has comply left the other classes behind in all game types. So i do not see why any class should be with out.

Yeah, because in a squad of 10 players everyone needs to have a 10-man source of the same boon or they're "not viable", totally makes sense.

[Jski.6180]

 

55 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Yeah, because in a squad of 10 players everyone needs to have a 10-man source of the same boon or they're "not viable", totally makes sense.

Right if any one person is miss that effect the class will be replaced with another class who dose the same to near same dps and or healing with that effect. That is what power creep means for a game like this. Its all made worst when you have a 10 person only size group and a lack of unique class effects.

 

At the end of the day dps will only effect one target (in pve vs bosses) where your support skill can effect 5-10 targets having an bigger impact in a fight. This for what ever reason carry over to spvp and wvw as well lol.

[Sobx.1758]

21 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

 

Right if any one person is miss that effect the class will be replaced with another class who dose the same to near same dps and or healing with that effect. That is what power creep means for a game like this. Its all made worst when you have a 10 person only size group and a lack of unique class effects.

 

At the end of the day dps will only effect one target (in pve vs bosses) where your support skill can effect 5-10 targets having an bigger impact in a fight. This for what ever reason carry over to spvp and wvw as well lol.

You missed the point, try re-reading. The only problem here are the situations in which support can/could outdps actual dps.

 

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Jski.6180]

2 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

You missed the point, try re-reading. The only problem here are the situations in which support can/could outdps actual dps.

 

 

The problem is dps classes can out support support classes.

[Obtena.7952]

48 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

 

Right if any one person is miss that effect the class will be replaced with another class who dose the same to near same dps and or healing with that effect.

No, that's only if you choose to play that way; your statement is not true in many cases where people are making a team. It makes no sense to continually complain about changes because of how they impact meta because the game isn't balanced around meta. 

Edited May 15, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Jski.6180]

32 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No, that's only if you choose to play that way; your statement is not true in many cases where people are making a team. It makes no sense to continually complain about changes because of how they impact meta because the game isn't balanced around meta. 

You choose to give lower cd or faster cast times? That is news to me tell me how can i use to let ele do this i love to know.

 

The current game is not balanced meta or not. If ppl chose to play meta or not that fine but the non meta needs something of there own and right now the meta is just the non meta classes but better.

[Sobx.1758]

29 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

You choose to give lower cd or faster cast times? That is news to me tell me how can i use to let ele do this i love to know.

You only need one/two of the players giving those buffs to the rest of the party/squad, what you say is just objectively wrong, there's absolutely no need for everyone to have their own source of the same buff.

[Jski.6180]

29 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

You only need one/two of the players giving those buffs to the rest of the party/squad, what you say is just objectively wrong, there's absolutely no need for everyone to have their own source of the same buff.

So if your ones of the classes who do give out such a boon but your able to dps at the same level as every other class then why would you need any other classes. Ppl do stack the same class even after they have a perma effect. So objectively the player base acts in this way so we must see anet balance in this way.

[Sobx.1758]

2 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

So if your ones of the classes who do give out such a boon but your able to dps at the same level as every other class then why would you need any other classes. Ppl do stack the same class even after they have a perma effect. So objectively the player base acts in this way so we must see anet balance in this way.

Because after the boon is capped, the rest potentially having it or not is irrelevant and as such "not having that boon makes the class/build not viable" is a false claim, what's so hard to understand about it?

 

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Jski.6180 said:

You choose to give lower cd or faster cast times?

No, you choose how you play. How you think the game is balanced or not is irrelevant. It's designed to NOT be balanced according to how you think it should be. 

Edited May 15, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Jski.6180]

16 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No, you choose how you play. How you think the game is balanced or not is irrelevant. It's designed to NOT be balanced according to how you think it should be. 

How do you chose to use alacrity and quinkess as support tools for ele? I love to know how to make that chose.

[Obtena.7952]

40 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

How do you chose to use alacrity and quinkess as support tools for ele? I love to know how to make that chose.

You don't ... it's not a choice available to you ... but there are OTHER choices you have to make as a player that do influence how a team is built. There isn't a 'replacement' of classes for meta ones in a team like you claim ... unless you choose to play that way. Just because you make that choice doesn't mean Anet needs to accommodate your idea of how the game should work. Just make a different choice.

Edited May 15, 2021 by Obtena.7952