Please undo the 02/25/2020 profession update already (and bring back fall damage traits)

[TheBravery.9615]

This is by far the worst thought out profession update I've seen in the entire 8 year life of Guild Wars 2. Namely..

 

The blanket nerf of reducing power coefficient to anything that CCs to 0.01 power coefficient. This is not a proper approach, especially if a weapon kit is almost entirely CC (rampage).

(and)

The blanket nerf to almost all passive traits to 300s cd. This is not a proper solution to fix 'passive' traits, by making it near useless for 5 minutes in exchange for 4 seconds of uptime.

 

Also why, again were fall damage traits removed from the game? They were unique and fun to play with.

 

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Ngl it feels like anet is simplifying everything to reduce workload on balance. So less flavor, for more "balance". You can see it in the recent mantra fixes, the removal of dmg from CC, the massive application of boons from some professions, the perma stealth, the mesmer/deadeye interrupts having no counterplay (CC from 1200 range), the blind spam in the game, the destruction of many skills from professions like banners, spirirts, turrets, gadgets, glamour etc.

 

List goes on.

 

[Sunshine.5014]

Please DO NOT revert the change. It was the best update we had so far.

 

The game has many skills that does too many things in one button. The latest example was staff mirage, which can keep up insane amount of boons and damage with just one button pressed.

 

We DO NOT need a skill that does both CC and damage. That's how power creep happened. In fact, we should continue nerfing skills that does too many effects in one. If a weapon set has too much CC and not enough damage, we should rework the skills to remove CC and add damage instead. No, we don't want a skill that does both CC and damage!

[Grand Marshal.4098]

16 minutes ago, Sunshine.5014 said:

Please DO NOT revert the change. It was the best update we had so far.

 

The game has many skills that does too many things in one button. The latest example was staff mirage, which can keep up insane amount of boons and damage with just one button pressed.

 

We DO NOT need a skill that does both CC and damage. That's how power creep happened. In fact, we should continue nerfing skills that does too many effects in one. If a weapon set has too much CC and not enough damage, we should rework the skills to remove CC and add damage instead. No, we don't want a skill that does both CC and damage!

As a warrior main, I would be dissapointed if my hammer, maces, shield, dagger 3, entire type of utilities and 2 elites did subpar dmg

 

wait- 

[WindBlade.8749]

2 hours ago, Sunshine.5014 said:

Please DO NOT revert the change. It was the best update we had so far.

 

The game has many skills that does too many things in one button. The latest example was staff mirage, which can keep up insane amount of boons and damage with just one button pressed.

 

We DO NOT need a skill that does both CC and damage. That's how power creep happened. In fact, we should continue nerfing skills that does too many effects in one. If a weapon set has too much CC and not enough damage, we should rework the skills to remove CC and add damage instead. No, we don't want a skill that does both CC and damage!

well to be fair, mirage mechanics turn around ambush, they use others skill to generate the acess to this ambush, maybe the ambush itself give too much but it's like saying F1 of BS is just one spam skill, it's alot of mechanics that allow you to spam one skill, but in the end you don't use one skill only.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Sunshine.5014 said:

Please DO NOT revert the change. It was the best update we had so far.

 

The game has many skills that does too many things in one button. The latest example was staff mirage, which can keep up insane amount of boons and damage with just one button pressed.

 

We DO NOT need a skill that does both CC and damage. That's how power creep happened. In fact, we should continue nerfing skills that does too many effects in one. If a weapon set has too much CC and not enough damage, we should rework the skills to remove CC and add damage instead. No, we don't want a skill that does both CC and damage!

You are so completely and utterly wrong that I am sure Anet will gladly offer you a position on the balance team as soon as you submit your resume.

 

Not all CC is the same. Some are instant and from 1200 range even, some are so highly telegraphed from melee range that if you get hit by them you deserve the CC along with PvE levels of damage and to die from the follow up burst for your ineptitude at this game.

[cryorion.9532]

Tbh, balance after the Feb 2020 patch didn't really get that much better as some people glorify it. That patch was just "lazy" way to reduce powercreep in PvP/WvW. Lazy in quotes because it still required a lot of effort to change so many things, but it was still simplifed over going through every weapon/skill individually (and deciding whether the skill should retain its damage or not depending on its cast time, telegraph, aoe size and so on). Changes in this patch just nerfed everything equally but some things needed to be nerfed more than others. Basically, the patch just lowered the powercreep but didn't really balanced the game, there were still outliners and there still are.

 

The whole concept of CC skills not doing damage also didn't age that well. The game is still imbalanced even with this "special golden rule".

 

I doubt anet will revert these changes, but they could look at every cc skill individually and give them more damage depending on how each skill is telegraphed, their cast times, cooldowns and so on.

[crewthief.8649]

2 hours ago, Sunshine.5014 said:

Please DO NOT revert the change. It was the best update we had so far.

 

The game has many skills that does too many things in one button. The latest example was staff mirage, which can keep up insane amount of boons and damage with just one button pressed.

 

We DO NOT need a skill that does both CC and damage. That's how power creep happened. In fact, we should continue nerfing skills that does too many effects in one. If a weapon set has too much CC and not enough damage, we should rework the skills to remove CC and add damage instead. No, we don't want a skill that does both CC and damage!

Completely disagree with this take. Warrior has weapon sets (hammer, mace) that were completely neutered with that update. If you get hit with Back Breaker or Skull Crack, you deserve to eat damage, as @Lan Deathrider.5910 noted above. Lets not even talk about Earthshaker…

 

The fact of the matter is, those two weapons specifically now have burst skills (that you have to work for, mind you) that do effectively zero damage. Not to mention Headbutt, the Berserker elite skill that likewise does zero damage (and subsequently has a portion of its effect, 50% bonus damage upon landing it on a target with stability, rendered totally meaningless). That is not okay, and honestly shouldn’t be okay, with anyone that possesses even the slightest amount of objectivity. 

TL;DR You are ill-informed and need to dig a bit deeper in order to understand the implications of a blanket nerf upon certain professions that rely on CC in order to put damage into a target.

Edited May 25, 2021 by crewthief.8649

[Sugar Min.5834]

3 hours ago, Sunshine.5014 said:

Please DO NOT revert the change. It was the best update we had so far.

 

The game has many skills that does too many things in one button. The latest example was staff mirage, which can keep up insane amount of boons and damage with just one button pressed.

 

We DO NOT need a skill that does both CC and damage. That's how power creep happened. In fact, we should continue nerfing skills that does too many effects in one. If a weapon set has too much CC and not enough damage, we should rework the skills to remove CC and add damage instead. No, we don't want a skill that does both CC and damage!

After so many years of endless nerfs to every professions and runes and sigils, and players are still complaining about power creeps in the game *shook head* Our kill efficiencies and skill effectiveness now like less than 40% of what we used to be and there are still players out there who can't cope and still trying very hard to kill each other professions. Among my four max guilds of guildlies and a few personal friends, every one, and i really mean every one is unhappy with each nerf patch and this is why those active player numbers is shrinking fast. And weirdly that it is only in this forum that i see people saying we love nerfs and we still want more nerfs and i always wonder how many is their 'we'. Or who are their 'we'?

Edited May 26, 2021 by Mil.3562

[Axl.8924]

6 hours ago, Mil.3562 said:

After so many years of endless nerfs to every professions and runes and sigils, and players are still complaining about power creeps in the game *shook head* Our kill efficiencies and skill effectiveness now like less than 40% of what we used to be and there are still players out there who can't cope and still trying very hard to kill each other professions. Among my four max guilds of guildlies and a few personal friends, every one, and i really mean every one is unhappy with each nerf patch and this is why those active player numbers is shrinking fast. And weirdly that it is only in this forum that i see people saying we love nerfs and we still want more nerfs and i always wonder how many is their 'we'. Or who are their 'we'?

35k dps used to be closer to norm and before that 31-33k.

 

Having less damage does increase the difficulty of encounters and force us to use the breakbar more and avoid its attacks, especially raids.

 

 

Edited May 26, 2021 by Axl.8924

[Astralporing.1957]

4 hours ago, Axl.8924 said:

35k dps used to be closer to norm and before that 31-33k.

You probably never noticed those 70k tempests after HoT - probably because they were never included in any "official" benchmarks, and could only be observed in kill logs.

[Sobx.1758]

Nope, definitely do NOT undo that patch. Add some tweaks to it? Sure. But not undo, lol.

[Brandon Uzumaki.1524]

Oh yeah, let's go back to Rifle Warriors doing 40k damage on their burst skill, Reapers doing 10k damage per auto, 20k True Shots, 35k Worldly Impacts, etc, gonna be really fun lel.

[Sunshine.5014]

5 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

You probably never noticed those 70k tempests after HoT - probably because they were never included in any "official" benchmarks, and could only be observed in kill logs.

 

And that's the reason why we should NOT revert those nerfs. Going from 30-35k DPS on average to 70k was quite a power creep. Ele damage nerf was justified. Even after those nerfs, most professions can still do more than 35k DPS at the moment.

 

Again, we DON'T need more skills that do multiple effects in one button pressed. That's how power creep happened.

[Axl.8924]

3 hours ago, Brandon Uzumaki.1524 said:

Oh yeah, let's go back to Rifle Warriors doing 40k damage on their burst skill, Reapers doing 10k damage per auto, 20k True Shots, 35k Worldly Impacts, etc, gonna be really fun lel.

chances of going back to there are small. There is worse than reaper burst.

 

all the broken ranger stuff weaver used to be insanely op there was mirage auto dodge with condi mesmers with clones and huge burst and tons of mobility there was also scourge with aoe denial which was so broken it made WVW unplayable, deadeye 1 shotting people from long range, broken holosmith with dmg and sustain. Literally every single pof spec was busted.

 

In fact it was so busted that reaper and necro in general was unable to thrive because damage was simply too high. the TTK was so insanely low that every class could 1 shot you from 1 way or another or practically 1 shot with cc spam. Its the very reason mobility and invulns were king over taking hits, because why take hits if you can literally use invulns and or aegis and or infinite mobility?

 

But thats the past really and its unlikely to come back, at least i hope not. The pof power creep was really bad.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Axl.8924

[Puck.3697]

On 5/25/2021 at 11:14 PM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

You are so completely and utterly wrong that I am sure Anet will gladly offer you a position on the balance team as soon as you submit your resume.

 

Not all CC is the same. Some are instant and from 1200 range even, some are so highly telegraphed from melee range that if you get hit by them you deserve the CC along with PvE levels of damage and to die from the follow up burst for your ineptitude at this game

 

No. 

 

Because this conceptually would make all CC become BiS in PvP meaning everyone's playing it and you end up with 12 overlapping telegraphs of death every time someone sees movement. 

 

Sounds awesome until you apply it to a 5v5 scenerio with them all wielding the same thing. 

 

If you can't see the problem in this it's ridiculous. 

 

1 person to invis a entire group and 4 of the class to CC spam. You can't avoid in this matter as reliably during a huge fight with overlapping telegraphs and AoE everywhere. 

 

CC should not also carry damage. It's fundamentally overpowered.. every other group based PvP game also nerfs this regularly. 

 

Seems insane to me everyone wants a insta one shot meta.... It don't work. The point of gw2 PvP is to hold nodes. If your one shotting one another there's litterally 0 node holding potiental. Sure the meta could be faster getting rid of BS like prot holo.

 

But one shotting each other and CC spamming is just absolute trash in the game mode. 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

No. 

 

Because this conceptually would make all CC become BiS in PvP meaning everyone's playing it and you end up with 12 overlapping telegraphs of death every time someone sees movement. 

Stability exists for a reason.

1 hour ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Sounds awesome until you apply it to a 5v5 scenerio with them all wielding the same thing. 

 

If you can't see the problem in this it's ridiculous. 

 

1 person to invis a entire group and 4 of the class to CC spam. You can't avoid in this matter as reliably during a huge fight with overlapping telegraphs and AoE everywhere. 

You can do this already with necros with traited fear or eles with lightening rod traited. But, you don't see those comps happen now do you?

1 hour ago, Daddy.8125 said:

CC should not also carry damage. It's fundamentally overpowered.. every other group based PvP game also nerfs this regularly.

Okay, lets apply that logic to other more effects like stealth, shadowsteps, teleports, and stunbreaks and see how that goes huh?

1 hour ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

Seems insane to me everyone wants a insta one shot meta.... It don't work. The point of gw2 PvP is to hold nodes. If your one shotting one another there's litterally 0 node holding potiental. Sure the meta could be faster getting rid of BS like prot holo.

I'm not talking about the inta one-shot meta. I'm talking about the ludicrousness of no damage CCs, especially given that some classes get to take a trait and do damage with their CCs anyway.

1 hour ago, Daddy.8125 said:

But one shotting each other and CC spamming is just absolute trash in the game mode. 

Don't like CC spam? Use stability. Or evade the attack, or break LoS, or block the attack, or use blind, or use weakness to nullify the follow up burst. There is so much counterplay to CC skills that removing the damage to them made no sense, especially for the highly telegraphed ones that no decent player should ever get hit by.

[Kodama.6453]

3 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

No. 

 

Because this conceptually would make all CC become BiS in PvP meaning everyone's playing it and you end up with 12 overlapping telegraphs of death every time someone sees movement. 

 

Sounds awesome until you apply it to a 5v5 scenerio with them all wielding the same thing. 

 

If you can't see the problem in this it's ridiculous. 

 

1 person to invis a entire group and 4 of the class to CC spam. You can't avoid in this matter as reliably during a huge fight with overlapping telegraphs and AoE everywhere. 

 

CC should not also carry damage. It's fundamentally overpowered.. every other group based PvP game also nerfs this regularly. 

 

Seems insane to me everyone wants a insta one shot meta.... It don't work. The point of gw2 PvP is to hold nodes. If your one shotting one another there's litterally 0 node holding potiental. Sure the meta could be faster getting rid of BS like prot holo.

 

But one shotting each other and CC spamming is just absolute trash in the game mode. 

If Anet really is adamant about CC skills not dealing damage, then they have to make some really heavy rebalancing, tho.

There are quite some skills which were balanced as hard hitting CC skills by giving other downsides.

 

My prime example for this is Big Ol' Bomb. It used to be a hard hitting skill which also launched the enemy, yet no one ever complained about it.

Because this puts down a big fricking keg with a red ring, which warns you 3 seconds in advance.

 

You get a highly telegraphed skill, which screams "get out of this zone in the next 3 seconds" at you. And 3 seconds is enough time to walk out of it, you don't even need to dodge like for other CC.

 

All this skill does now is being an AoE CC NO one gets ever hit by anyway. It is legit garbage now.

If it needs to have the damage removed, then they have to heavily buff it elsewhere.

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Kodama.6453

[TheBravery.9615]

https://i.imgur.com/DBG6Y62.png

[Kaizen.3804]

1 hour ago, TheBravery.9615 said:

https://i.imgur.com/DBG6Y62.png

You probably won't find very many thieves who'd disagree that Steal/Swipe/Deadeye's Mark aren't overloaded as kitten. Thief Main here, and honestly, it's stupid how much kitten you can trait 1 button press to do. Balance has never been Anet's forte.

 

Smiter's Boon, anyone? (And no, I'm never going to let Anet forget this.)
https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Smiter's_Boon_(PvP)

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I find it rich that people look at warrior CC and accuse it of doing too much when we want it's damage returned, and then there is Deadeye's Mark, or any of the overloads from tempest.

[TheBravery.9615]

Skull crack: single target. Stuns 1s. 130 (melee range), 1/2 second cast time. Requires adrenaline to cast.

 

Deadeye's Mark: Steals boons, deals damage, dazes, applies conditions, heals, grant allies boons, gain initiative, 1500 range, gives you a blow job, and mows your lawn.

Edited May 28, 2021 by TheBravery.9615

[ThrakathNar.4537]

9 hours ago, TheBravery.9615 said:

https://i.imgur.com/DBG6Y62.png

Weirdly enough, it seems the fact that Deadeye's mark doing damage and Daze is actually consistent with ANet's design, because as far as I can tell, looking at the wiki, dazes are actually allowed to do damage. The skill is overloaded as anything with traits, but it is a rare example of ANet actually being somewhat consistent. Same is true with a trait like Flashbang.

Traits like Glacial Blow and Lightning Rod, as well as Magnetic Inversion on the other hand...

[Puck.3697]

11 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Stability exists for a reason.

You can do this already with necros with traited fear or eles with lightening rod traited. But, you don't see those comps happen now do you?

Okay, lets apply that logic to other more effects like stealth, shadowsteps, teleports, and stunbreaks and see how that goes huh?

I'm not talking about the inta one-shot meta. I'm talking about the ludicrousness of no damage CCs, especially given that some classes get to take a trait and do damage with their CCs anyway.

Don't like CC spam? Use stability. Or evade the attack, or break LoS, or block the attack, or use blind, or use weakness to nullify the follow up burst. There is so much counterplay to CC skills that removing the damage to them made no sense, especially for the highly telegraphed ones that no decent player should ever get hit by.

 

Havent heard of a stealth that damages you lol. 

 

And your solution is hand out stab in a abundance to what? Make CC pointless? No. 

 

Yeah you can do it with necros hence why scourge is OP lol we are aware of problems the objective isn't to make the situation worse. It should be to nerf necro. 

 

Your acting like evades are limitless. We can dodge twice. Not all classes have evades and more built into attacks to be able to evade more then the standardized game gives you. 

 

It's not possible to physically dodge every CC used during a teamfight. It's not a valid argument in the slightest. 

 

And no it would quickly dive into one shots. Because the team comps would become CC centric. You would then move into a era where effectively you can only survive for 2 seconds and as soon as Ur out of evades get absolutely wrecked. 

 

There isn't counterplay to CC has high as u seem to beleive. 

 

Cc escapes CDs are generally longer then CC meaning u can't use them everytime

 

Alot of classes can stack enough CC to be able to beat through Ur evasions. Your concept of evades becoming entirely bound to dodging CC is ridiculous it will mean everyone's forced to swallow all damage because they can't use evades. 

 

Your "counterplay" concept ruins the counterplay to burst. Because the game don't give you enough evades to do both. 

 

The issue is exactly that. 

 

You as a player will end up swallowing bursts of damage because counterplaying it directly results in you being CC chained. 

 

It's so shortminded to beelive "just dodge it". How about Anet removes stamina and lets us dodge on continuous loop with no CD then we will talk about being able to dodge every CC. 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

3 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

Havent heard of a stealth that damages you lol. 

It was a reference to the absurd notion that cc's also doing damage is 'too much' given what those other mechanics are capable of.

3 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

And your solution is hand out stab in a abundance to what? Make CC pointless? No. 

Stability has already been handed out in abundance, with the exception of Necro.

3 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Yeah you can do it with necros hence why scourge is OP lol we are aware of problems the objective isn't to make the situation worse. It should be to nerf necro. 

This is not what Scourge is OP. Scourge is OP because of broken barrier from traits and a rune along with turning every point into floor is lava.

3 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Your acting like evades are limitless. We can dodge twice. Not all classes have evades and more built into attacks to be able to evade more then the standardized game gives you. 

I said evade, which includes skills that evade. The classes that don't have many evade skills are also the classes that can blind spam, fear lock you, or have get out of burst free cards called teleports and shadowsteps.

3 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

It's not possible to physically dodge every CC used during a teamfight. It's not a valid argument in the slightest. 

See above comment. Also, I never claimed that you would be dodging every CC. You would be dodging, using evade skills, breaking LOS, blocking, using blind, using a teleport/shadowstep, walking into the other player causing the skill to whiff (yes you can do that), and even to the point of jumping over the other player's skill. Yes, you can do that. There are videos showing how. My point is, there are a multitude of ways to not get hit by a CC, and some of them are so highly telegraphed that the CC frankly is not its own reward.

3 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

And no it would quickly dive into one shots. Because the team comps would become CC centric. You would then move into a era where effectively you can only survive for 2 seconds and as soon as Ur out of evades get absolutely wrecked. 

Returning damage to CCs would not dive into one shots, that would require undoing every single damage nerf from the Feb2020 patch. Every team comp should be bringing CCs already, that will not change. If you blow you dodges and sustain, you'll already be focused down in 2s in today's meta, all you need is a Soulbeast to use Rapid Fire on you, or a Reaper to spin-to-win. So your professed fears are already reality.

3 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

There isn't counterplay to CC has high as u seem to beleive. 

Perhaps you need to spend some time learning how not to get hit by CCs...

3 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Cc escapes CDs are generally longer then CC meaning u can't use them everytime

Then break LOS, walking into the other player's character model, or jump over the attack. It depends on the CC in question, but just because you blew your own CDs does not mean you are left without options.

3 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Alot of classes can stack enough CC to be able to beat through Ur evasions. Your concept of evades becoming entirely bound to dodging CC is ridiculous it will mean everyone's forced to swallow all damage because they can't use evades.

Its a good thing you more options than just evasions huh? Its also a good thing that I never mentioned relying on just evades and dodges huh? Did you just read the evade part and forgot to read the rest because of cognitive dissonance?

3 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

Your "counterplay" concept ruins the counterplay to burst. Because the game don't give you enough evades to do both. 

Again, go read the rest of my statement.

3 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

The issue is exactly that. 

 

You as a player will end up swallowing bursts of damage because counterplaying it directly results in you being CC chained. 

Well, the point of CC is to force you to swallow damage if you get hit by it. It's a good thing that there is a great deal of counter play to it then isn't it, like blinds, dodges, evades, breaking LOS, blocking, teleporting, shadow stepping, and using knowledge of how skills and hit boxes work to not get hit without having to even use a CD or dodge.

3 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

It's so shortminded to beelive "just dodge it". How about Anet removes stamina and lets us dodge on continuous loop with no CD then we will talk about being able to dodge every CC. 

Again, I never said 'just dodge it.'  You read the word 'evade' and went on a tirade before reading the rest of my statement laying out all the ways you can counter a CC.

 

So, go actually read what I wrote for once, learn how to not get hit while you are at it, and when you're ready to have an honest discussion I'll gladly have a meaningful and friendly discussion with you.

FWIW I'm not trying to rile you up or anything, you really did just read the first part of a long string of ways to negate a CC skill and went on a tirade about it with the assumption that I boiled it all down to 'just dodge' when that is not the case.