Stop exploiting the waypoint blocking mechanic. Seriously.

[Zyreva.1078]

13 hours ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

maybe some mechanics that auto-scout on teamchat since players have become really bad with that. like, a lord under attack pinging the keep @ teamchat or sth alike. and maybe a tactic that adds a scouttroop (like a walking veteran) who reveals and pings some other alert on mapchat, idk. lot of potential options.

 

 

 

They should definitely add evem more automatisms to WvW.

How about an auto-commander, so all those poor lost souls don't have to wait for a real one to show up. Can't play WvW without having a tag to follow arround after all. Or maybe auto-siege which does not require a player to operate. Pressing that one button over and over again is boring anyway. Might as well add entire zergs of auto-players into the mix, we don't want anyone to run out of bags to farm after all. And with how bad most players are at using their skills, we might as well replace everyone with bots.

Infinite possibilities, it could be so glorious ...

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

13 hours ago, Choppy.4183 said:

It's been part of the game since the start, and makes for a more interesting game. Waypoints are already a huge advantage, which makes sense given how long it takes to get them. But making it so they're always usable? Nah... Go check the keep like you would if the waypoint wasn't there.

 

Mounts have not been in since the start of the game, you used to have to kill guards or risk getting chain CCed by them and you were in combat, now it is just ride through the guards on your mount, be immune to CC with two large dodges and no combat speed, so even if someone sees you, there is no way to catch you other than burning all your mobility to even try. WPs also used to open up for a second or two after a contested event, and you used to have to do dmg to a wall or gate to keep it contested, do people not remember tag calling for someone to keep tapping the gate etc even while they were on lord because the WP was no longer being contested? Maybe it's because I used to play thief back then and that was one of the things we were expected to do, however everyone else seems to have forgotten.

 

Not only that, lets just assume everything is exactly the same as it was in beta or at release, just because a bad mechanic that can be abused has been around and not fixed since the start, is no reason to allow it to continue. Thats just some twisted stockholm syndrome.

[Clownmug.8357]

It's funny that people claim to want fights then do everything in their power to prevent enemies from showing up.

[Zyreva.1078]

2 minutes ago, Clownmug.8357 said:

It's funny that people claim to want fights then do everything in their power to prevent enemies from showing up.

Contesting waypoints does not prevent anyone from showing up to fights.

[Clownmug.8357]

1 minute ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Contesting waypoints does not prevent anyone from showing up to fights.

 

Reduces the chance anyone will show up in time for a fight then.

[Zyreva.1078]

Just now, Clownmug.8357 said:

 

Reduces the chance anyone will show up in time for a fight then.

If players don't show up to a fight just because it takes them 10s longer to get there, they never wanted to fight to begin with.

[Clownmug.8357]

1 minute ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

If players don't show up to a fight just because it takes them 10s longer to get there, they never wanted to fight to begin with.

 

Yes, and that's part of why I said it prevents fights. Because some people become discouraged by slight inconvenience, then others become discouraged by flaky teammates.

[vilkanor.3072]

Just having it cease to function when you need it the most is simply bad design and defeats entirely its purpose, which is "reducing the travel time as much as possible".

The way I see it, the WP should be a "physical" object with relative healthbar, and only be unavailable if destroyed.

 

 

[Zyreva.1078]

10 minutes ago, vilkanor.3072 said:

Just having it cease to function when you need it the most is simply bad design and defeats entirely its purpose, which is "reducing the travel time as much as possible".

The way I see it, the WP should be a "physical" object with relative healthbar, and only be unavailable if destroyed.

 

 

Players being able to respawn and come back into a fight instantly and eventually winning by basically throwing infinite bodies at their enemy is simply bad design and defeats entirely the purpose of killing other players, which  is "winning a fight and taking whatever was fought over".

Edited May 28, 2021 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[vilkanor.3072]

7 minutes ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Players being able to respawn and come back into a fight instantly and eventually winning by basically throwing infinite bodies at their enemy is simply bad design and defeats entirely the purpose of killing other players, which  is "winning a fight and taking whatever was fought over".

the playing field is evened out by accessibility latency: it's not that you click WP and port instantly, there is loading time on your side, and from the other side you may be largely vulnerable while being incapable of any action.

[Wuffy.9732]

I've always felt that instead of one roamer contesting keeps, it should be 3-5 players instead. Think of Open World events for instance. WP's get contested once an event takes place. 3-5 players in wvw that "tap" a keep can be compared to as such, that triggers an event like state where your team's keep is now under siege.

 

That's just my two cents. It never made sense to me how one perma-stealth thief can run up to a castle/keep, smack the guards and gate a little and all of a sudden we're in DEFCON 3...

[Zyreva.1078]

20 minutes ago, vilkanor.3072 said:

the playing field is evened out by accessibility latency: it's not that you click WP and port instantly, there is loading time on your side, and from the other side you may be largely vulnerable while being incapable of any action.

Only relevant when the fight happens right on top of the WP. Which most of the time is not the case.

[Sobx.1758]

22 hours ago, MaLong.2079 said:

This is why we don't have nice things. Stop exploiting every single exploitable mechanic people! 😁

 

But seriously. The idea to block waypoints during an invasion is fine and necessary because having defenders respawn inside would be too easy. However, having the waypoints blocked when nothing is going on is not the intended function of the mechanic, is just a very easy exploit of an... oversight? 

 

Taunting the guards outside, dropping siege build sites or bashing your face against the gate should only mark the objective as contested but not block the wp.

 

Anyway, just because you can abuse it doesn't mean you should. So stop abusing it ok? it is annoying and unnecessary. Self-control 👍

And how exactly do you know it's not intended?

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Clownmug.8357 said:

 

Yes, and that's part of why I said it prevents fights. Because some people become discouraged by slight inconvenience, then others become discouraged by flaky teammates.

Attackers have to run to the objective -good.

Defenders have to run to the objective, so the pace is evened out between the sides? WOAH SO YOU DON'T WANT TO FIGHT?!?!!?

 

Ok, sure.

[Shroud.2307]

2 hours ago, TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

 

Mounts have not been in since the start of the game, you used to have to kill guards or risk getting chain CCed by them and you were in combat, now it is just ride through the guards on your mount, be immune to CC with two large dodges and no combat speed, so even if someone sees you, there is no way to catch you other than burning all your mobility to even try. WPs also used to open up for a second or two after a contested event, and you used to have to do dmg to a wall or gate to keep it contested, do people not remember tag calling for someone to keep tapping the gate etc even while they were on lord because the WP was no longer being contested? Maybe it's because I used to play thief back then and that was one of the things we were expected to do, however everyone else seems to have forgotten.

 

Not only that, lets just assume everything is exactly the same as it was in beta or at release, just because a bad mechanic that can be abused has been around and not fixed since the start, is no reason to allow it to continue. Thats just some twisted stockholm syndrome.

You don't need to risk anything tapping a keep. Throw a Blue Print on a wall in front of an Archer. There, it's contested. 

Waypoints make a difference in travel time of like, 15 - 20seconds now that Mounts exist. Yes, that difference in time can mean defending or losing an objective, but so can a faster response time.

I do think the mechanic of Waypoint contesting is flawed as it currently is, but I also think the impact it has with the existence of Tactivators and Mounts is minimal compared to before. People just complain about it because there are a handful of players that will contest Waypoints for literal hours on end, and said players are very good at not being killed. The funny thing though is that the best way to get them to stop is to let them do it, and no one ever wants to. Most times they'll stop within >30 minutes if people just let them get bored.

[Handin.4032]

This isn't really an exploit, just a bad mechanic.

 

In general, contesting a waypoint can be very high reward, especially on some maps. For instance, on EBG contesting their keep constantly means there's a much longer run back. Similarly on a borderland, if you're hitting Hills or Bay and contesting their garrison. For a high-reward or high-impact event, there should be some (or considerable) risk. However, as others have said, contesting a keep requires little to no risk, just time, for the reasons others have said.

 

However, as the person above me stated, most that do this permanently are just trolling. They're often in some low damage, high sustain and mobility build and just enjoy having people chase them around the map for hours. If you ignore them, they often go away.

 

But, the contesting mechanic should require more. In this way, anet of course could just incrementally make changes to the threshold to see when it's in a good place, for instance, if it satisfies something like:

if (2 NPC guards within ___ seconds) or (wall/door takes X% siege samara in ___ seconds) contestWaypoint In this way, it would take some commitment to contest if you wish to contest where you're hitting elsewhere. E.g. a small group of 3-5 actually hitting the keep while you hit elsewhere, not 1 thief or Mesmer throwing a ram blue print and teleporting away. However, I have super super high doubts anet will do anything about this. It's not a *huge* problem, just an annoying one.

[Choppy.4183]

3 hours ago, TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

 

Mounts have not been in since the start of the game, you used to have to kill guards or risk getting chain CCed by them and you were in combat, now it is just ride through the guards on your mount, be immune to CC with two large dodges and no combat speed, so even if someone sees you, there is no way to catch you other than burning all your mobility to even try. WPs also used to open up for a second or two after a contested event, and you used to have to do dmg to a wall or gate to keep it contested, do people not remember tag calling for someone to keep tapping the gate etc even while they were on lord because the WP was no longer being contested? Maybe it's because I used to play thief back then and that was one of the things we were expected to do, however everyone else seems to have forgotten.

 

Not only that, lets just assume everything is exactly the same as it was in beta or at release, just because a bad mechanic that can be abused has been around and not fixed since the start, is no reason to allow it to continue. Thats just some twisted stockholm syndrome.

 

The trigger has actually changed over the years. Activating the guards may have even been the original trigger, but just tapping the gates was at one point too. I don't recall killing guards being a requirement, but it honestly wouldn't be an impediment for tying up a WP.

 

But here's the thing, though I think your three suggestions wouldn't tilt things too much, beware of unintended consequences. First off, waypoints are (and should be) connected to structure contesting - if the structure gets swords on it, the WP should be contested. If you make killing a guard the minimum threat requirement, motivated people are going to kill a guard (it's not that hard). What that means though is groups are going to set up as many catapults as they want without triggering a warning, and you won't know your keep is getting hit until 30s after the boulders start flying.

 

I don't know about you but, if I was defender-oriented, I'd see that as a bad trade off just to keep a waypoint open when a structure isn't in any real danger.

[panthera onca.4251]

Haha... exploiting the mechanic ? I heard of things like scouts some clever servers use 🙂 Why all want it the ez way?  " Pls let the game scout for me if  theres real inc "  ... hey its endcontent ... you have to kittening work for it or lose the objects even to 3 ppl 😄

Edited May 28, 2021 by panthera onca.4251

[godz raiden.2631]

This thread is proof that the average WvW player is lazy and will complain about literally anything that's even a minor inconvenience to them as a result of enemy activity.

 

This isn't PvE. Please stop with posts like this, it's lame. Just spend the extra 30 seconds getting to your keep on your mount, it's not a big deal.

 

WvW has been dumbed down so much over the years the way it is. Upgrades in towers marking enemies on the map, sentries doing the same thing. How much more handholding is necessary, honestly?

Edited May 28, 2021 by godz raiden.2631

[Choppy.4183]

4 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

 

They should definitely add evem more automatisms to WvW.

How about an auto-commander, so all those poor lost souls don't have to wait for a real one to show up. Can't play WvW without having a tag to follow arround after all. Or maybe auto-siege which does not require a player to operate. Pressing that one button over and over again is boring anyway. Might as well add entire zergs of auto-players into the mix, we don't want anyone to run out of bags to farm after all. And with how bad most players are at using their skills, we might as well replace everyone with bots.

Infinite possibilities, it could be so glorious ...

 

 

You're missing the real end game - Anet endorsed bot control, so the game plays itself for you. Just soak up the loot and participation ribbons....

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

3 hours ago, Shroud.2307 said:

You don't need to risk anything tapping a keep. Throw a Blue Print on a wall in front of an Archer. There, it's contested. 

Waypoints make a difference in travel time of like, 15 - 20seconds now that Mounts exist. Yes, that difference in time can mean defending or losing an objective, but so can a faster response time.

I do think the mechanic of Waypoint contesting is flawed as it currently is, but I also think the impact it has with the existence of Tactivators and Mounts is minimal compared to before. People just complain about it because there are a handful of players that will contest Waypoints for literal hours on end, and said players are very good at not being killed. The funny thing though is that the best way to get them to stop is to let them do it, and no one ever wants to. Most times they'll stop within >30 minutes if people just let them get bored.

 

Yeah, that was my point, I stated years ago about blueprints and even mentioned them here already, and you don't throw it on a wall. There are many locations where you build the print that will be almost fully clipped into a wall or ground and will still aggro an archer, however due to location nothing actually hits it, so all you have to do is go back once an hour to refresh, a player will need to be VERY lucky to find these or know about the locations already.

 

It is also not about contesting for responding to something, as my fix suggestions, tapping is still 100% possible and still very easy. What it does however is allow that tapper to at least have a chance to be caught, big time when these players are doing it all day, all matchup.

 

1 hour ago, Choppy.4183 said:

 

The trigger has actually changed over the years. Activating the guards may have even been the original trigger, but just tapping the gates was at one point too. I don't recall killing guards being a requirement, but it honestly wouldn't be an impediment for tying up a WP.

 

But here's the thing, though I think your three suggestions wouldn't tilt things too much, beware of unintended consequences. First off, waypoints are (and should be) connected to structure contesting - if the structure gets swords on it, the WP should be contested. If you make killing a guard the minimum threat requirement, motivated people are going to kill a guard (it's not that hard). What that means though is groups are going to set up as many catapults as they want without triggering a warning, and you won't know your keep is getting hit until 30s after the boulders start flying.

 

I don't know about you but, if I was defender-oriented, I'd see that as a bad trade off just to keep a waypoint open when a structure isn't in any real danger.

 

No one is going to build catas in NPCs and not kill them and if you want to sneak a structure, you are just going to build out of range and out of watchtower etc, so all of this is the same as it is now, I mean this is basic stuff here. It changes NOTHING other than the tapper having to actually do something other than pass by guards mounted up. As such, tapping is still possible, contested so you know something is being attacked is still the same, the only thing this changes is that trolls who perma tap WPs will be catchable. They will need to dismount and kill a guard, a random tapper will probably never get caught this way, however perma tappers will be. You talk about killing a guard being super easy....Which is the point, as it stands now you literary just run by....Thats it.

 

[Choppy.4183]

25 minutes ago, TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

 

 

No one is going to build catas in NPCs and not kill them and if you want to sneak a structure, you are just going to build out of range and out of watchtower etc, so all of this is the same as it is now, I mean this is basic stuff here. It changes NOTHING other than the tapper having to actually do something other than pass by guards mounted up. As such, tapping is still possible, contested so you know something is being attacked is still the same, the only thing this changes is that trolls who perma tap WPs will be catchable. They will need to dismount and kill a guard, a random tapper will probably never get caught this way, however perma tappers will be. You talk about killing a guard being super easy....Which is the point, as it stands now you literary just run by....Thats it.

 

 

Really? If I was a decent sized group, or even a motivated small group, I'd specifically have one person occupy the guards without killing them (in Quagan for, for bonus points) while we set up all the cats we wanted on any of the keeps where we can hit both outer and inner. With 5+ cats and a 30s head start before people can even start to think something was up, my chances to flip the T3 keep would be way higher.

 

Sure, people can set up farther back now so as to not trigger guards, but not normally in a way to hit both sets of walls. The exception is hills, provided the guards on the wall don't target you, which is why it's the easiest keep to take.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Choppy.4183

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

10 minutes ago, Choppy.4183 said:

 

Really? If I was a decent sized group, or even a motivated small group, I'd specifically have one person occupy the guards without killing them (in Quagan for, for bonus points) while we set up all the cats we wanted on any of the keeps where we can hit both outer and inner. With 5+ cats and a 30s head start before people can even start to think something was up, my chances to flip the T3 keep would be way higher.

 

Sure, people can set up farther back now so as to not trigger guards, but not normally in a way to hit both sets of walls. The exception is hills, provided the guards on the wall don't target you, which is why it's the easiest keep to take.

 

Or, you just build out of NPC range....Nothing changes. I don't understand how you can't see that lol.

 

You are going out of your way to avoid a change in mechanic that can be avoided now with less effort, but you seem to think catas are rams and need to be at the base of a wall, catas are ranged for a reason.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

i love how this guy talks about automatisms, yet 90% of the reports u get are pointless bc wrong, misinterpreted, inaccurate, panic only, blurry or even just trolling.

 

@UmbraNoctis.1907 besides ... there are automatic "commanders" yet. siegerazor or how that eotm-summon is called xD

 

automated turrets exist as well, they are just 100% useless, just saying. and eotm has a auto shooting cannon tower or sth alike?

 

outside of that, as u say, a lot of people perform worse than NPCs or bots would.. some links only fill up the maps, refuse any cooperation or coordination, refuse joining voice/discord, just to cloud and die and feed. i made this reset like 500 kills, died probs 10-15 times... our overall kdR is like 0,40 lmfao.

 

maybe the plan is to make us ragequit on the format, so keeping this mess as bad as it is currently works better without anyone complaining? or to make us buy alt accounts so we can still play Wvw during 2 dead months on our mains. who knows.

[solemn.9608]

When I can't find content, I create it 😼

 

See you at your spawn soon 😼😼😼😼