why do you think power block is a good trait

[Disney.7826]

10 hours ago, Quadox.7834 said:

educate youself, slug

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kuj9j97ln7c

Yes, very hard to land power block.... (sarcastic)

[Tycura.1982]

Dunno about you guys but as a war main I've got a lot of respect for mesmers that can interrupt mending or arcing slice consistently and intentionally. If they spam it, the best they get in my case is something like 15 second CD on Aura Slicer (oh no whatever will I do).  Don't spam skills once you're dazed initially anyway. Focus on avoiding damage. Expect the multi proc cc from sword daze and shatter daze so don't spam into that either or your just asking to be power blocked.

Warrior has plenty of tools to counter play it. One tool everyone has regardless of class is stowing for that matter. Bait with stow if you think the mesmer is aiming for a certain skill of yours. Seems like it rewards skill to me. Plus domination has nothing in the way of sustain so it's not like you can't kill them either. They're going to run something along the lines of GS/Sword,X with all the offhand weapons except sword being viable. So it's not even a question of what they're going to try and do. Wait for the GS2 and daze from stealth or blink and, not even being satirical, just dodge. If the mesmer is in stealth just hover your dodge key. They're all frontloaded damage with very little in the way of immediate follow up.

 

Oh and for all those classes with those strange foreign things called boons. Throw up stability or aegis.

Edited May 29, 2021 by Tycura.1982

[Terrorhuz.4695]

I jump in this thread as a mesmer main. No, I'm not running power block and I don't think I ever had. Stab and aegis don't really work, domination mesmers can rip boons for weeks.
However, and that's the thing, domination mesmers have 0 sustain and close to 0 cleanse; the whole cleanse of a mirage -dodge + torch 4 + double jaunt amounts to one mending of a warrior. So, just drop conditions. Blind, to say one, or whatever. That's the weakness of mesmer as a class; the cleanse is very very poor.

As for domi mesmer, they will try to interrupt your heal; just LoS. It's that easy. If you're within 600 range a mesmer can somehow teleport to reach you (axe 3 and sword 3, though sword 3 from cast to teleport has a whole 1.5s); outside of this range the only tool available is blink. So just find a wall outside the 600 range, heal and get back.

One could argue the ICD of mantra of distraction should be raised, to allow fake casting; on that I would agree. But honestly stop painting power block like some divine-tier unstoppable deus ex machina that makes mesmer a godly killing machine. Literally just heal behind a wall. Or, if you're crazy enough, stun the mesmer and heal behind the guy; MoD requires LoS (just be aware that F3 has AoE around the mesmer)

Long story short, this whole topic is driving me crazy because we are throwing common sense out of the kittening window. We've got a fair amount of classes whose main design is literally "turn off your brain and facetank everything for days", but God forbid a class with 0 resustain by design is given the slimmest chance to counter that. This is honestly bs.

Edited May 29, 2021 by Terrorhuz.4695

[JazzXman.7018]

5 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

I jump in this thread as a mesmer main. No, I'm not running power block and I don't think I ever had. Stab and aegis don't really work, domination mesmers can rip boons for weeks.

mirage has only one instant melee boonremove, since barely any class has no  single cover boon the shatters barely remove stabi and you can easy outrun clones until your cast is finished. with aegis the trick is to have good timing of applying it. esp good ofc when you can apply it midcast to outplay the mesmers human reaction time.

 

but for all the average casttime skills with 3/4 secs cast time counts:

 

every counteraction an opponent will do adds another reaction time to the mesmer. like you start a cast the mes realize it and will move his finger to press the mantra or f3 button, then you stow or you/your teammate blind the mesmer, you run los or run through the mes, so the mes will by natural brain design not be able to counterplay it, bc he cannot counterplay his own reaction time. and every countermove adds another reaction time to the mesmer while the target has the master plan in mind and the mes needs to react. so hf trying to interupt a 3/4secs castskill with double raction time (means seeing the target cast a skill + bit time to notice what skill/ what animation is starting there and decide if you wanna rupt it or not + the reaction time to see that you got blinded during that process + brain signal to stop/delay your plan to press mantra for the rupt + time to remove the blind with an autoattack or a dodge with em condi remove +new brain signal to now press mantra for the rupt right on time). same for arguments when ppl say mes can port. mes cannot port through walls only aside from walls behind it, you can do a alot about that. esp also when you dont go los before you start the cast but after cast start to trigger the mesmers brain signal for the interupt and then los. the mes will have a hard time to use a blink and then use mantra before a cast with 3/4 secs is over.

 

just as when i hear nonsense like powerblock/ daze mantra is a pure offensive mechanic, if you interupt offensive skills from an opponent you waste potential or when you need to interrupt offensive skills to survive the mes just overcommitted and is bad. i mean holy cow... ofc yes, in a world where you and your team let the mes totally free rotate and freecast and also dont pressure his teammates (to give the mes valuable uses to peel for teamates by interrupting big bursts or big hard cc from the enemy on his teammates)  then mantra/ powerblock becomes a pure offensive tool.

 

but that is not reality in game with skilled players/ skilled teams. but ofc when you play bad and predictable and facetank all mesmers obvious burst, while failing to pressure him well yourself, then you need to panic heal with 5% hp left 3 secs after fight start and then just cast the heal in front of the mes without even trying to cover it, then yes its an easy interrupt for the mes. your fault! not the mes being carried. you can time your counterplay well to outplay the mesmers human reaction time and you can add even more reaction times with each counter you do in a not totally predictable way and with not totally predictable  timing and with in general less predictable (less emergency-) heal behavior.

 

 

ppl always come with picture book scenarios which are simply not reality. in reality valid and fair counterplay to the instant range interrupt mechanic with a trait like powerblock is, to pressure the mes, to bait out/ pressure out cds like interupts and teleports for surviving (interrupt mechanic is even mainly defensive/ utility nature and has tons of valid and worthy defensive uses) and since mes has no resustain a mes can be pressured and forced into using cds defensive way easier than all other classes (esp since mesmer shares offensive and defensive cds way more than other classes). and that is aside from all the counters you have with applying stabi or midcast aegis, blind, using a channeled shieldblock to cover heal, stealth to cover heal, disengaging, los, stow baits etc.  

Edited May 29, 2021 by JazzXman.7018

[Justine.6351]

Try not running in with your arms flailing smashing every key off cool down in an attempt to blow up a power block mesmer and you might just learn that patience and timing go a long way.

[Leonidrex.5649]

things that work.
1 Stability/aegis/blind ( guard, engi, ranger, thief )
2 Teleporting out of range/behind LoS ( mesmer, thief, rev, necro )
3 Stealth ( mesmer, thief, engi, ranger )
The reality is people dont even try to protect their healing skills, as most classes cant really do kitten about them.
Here comes mesmer and you actually have to use your healing skill properly and everyone loses their mind!
Its not a rocket science for holo to stealth and THEN heal, or for ranger to stealth with lb3 and then heal,
or for necro to heal -> wait 0,2s -> worm/spectral and get it off.
In the end warrior is like the only class that you cant do much against PB, and even then they can just evade spam dodge, untill they are so kittening far away or in a safe spot and then heal.
BTW you can also stun mesmer and walk behind them, as they can mantra people in front of them only.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

just los bro

[Shao.7236]

On 5/28/2021 at 11:14 AM, Quadox.7834 said:

congratulations for making one of the objectively worst suggestions i have ever heard in my 9 years in this game

Because you think it's unreasonable to have the duration of the interrupted skill the same as the ICD? For the CC spam mesmer can output at a willing and RNG pace? 9 years on non sense I heard.

 

Get in line with your complain, there's more important to deal with. 3 seconds ICD is already extremely low for 15 seconds and we can already find you complaining about that.

 

There are already several traits that gets Weakness with no higher than half a second on disable, if that doesn't make you happy to have, nothing will.

Edited May 30, 2021 by Shao.7236

[Quadox.7834]

12 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

Because you think it's unreasonable to have the duration of the interrupted skill the same as the ICD? For the CC spam mesmer can output at a willing and RNG pace? 9 years on non sense I heard.

absolutely. you do not understand what you are saying, you do not understand this game, and you do not understand game design in general.

Quote

Get in line with your complain,

"Get in line with your complain" learn english

Quote

there's more important to deal with. 3 seconds ICD is already extremely low for 15 seconds and we can already find you complaining about that.

that's right, there are more important things to deal with. so why are you talking about it?

 

also, what i complain about is the **bug** that there is a hidden icd. either fix the bug or add the cooldown to the trait tooltip.

Quote

 

There are already several traits that gets Weakness with no higher than half a second on disable, if that doesn't make you happy to have, nothing will.

disable is not interrupt. Also, look at lightning rod.

Edited May 30, 2021 by Quadox.7834

[Shao.7236]

3 hours ago, Quadox.7834 said:

absolutely. you do not understand what you are saying, you do not understand this game, and you do not understand game design in general.

"Get in line with your complain" learn english

that's right, there are more important things to deal with. so why are you talking about it?

 

also, what i complain about is the **bug** that there is a hidden icd. either fix the bug or add the cooldown to the trait tooltip.

disable is not interrupt. Also, look at lightning rod.

In 9 years you expect Anet to do that for every trait with the same exact issue? Like I said. Get in line, there's worst.

 

Boohoo, learn to use capitals I guess? How come you're only pointing that out with me but not the thousand mistakes to be found anywhere else. Waste of time.

 

I never argued about the disable or interrupt but rather for me to prefer the trait to have Weakness on a low invisible ICD (Avoid Weakness spam, IE Staff 5 on Revenant could do that without one, or think clone Daze RNG based on pathing) like the others that exist around.

 

However that's a horrible suggestion according to you, exposing broken designs is definitely not part of the criticism that this forum exist for.

 

Anyway, 15 seconds under 3 seconds is not balanced regardless. Take the other suggestions going as low as 8 seconds instead while keeping your ICD if you'd prefer. I think Mesmer deserves the easy access to Weakness given it requires interrupt in the first place compared the others.

[Leonidrex.5649]

17 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

Because you think it's unreasonable to have the duration of the interrupted skill the same as the ICD? For the CC spam mesmer can output at a willing and RNG pace? 9 years on non sense I heard.

 

Get in line with your complain, there's more important to deal with. 3 seconds ICD is already extremely low for 15 seconds and we can already find you complaining about that.

 

There are already several traits that gets Weakness with no higher than half a second on disable, if that doesn't make you happy to have, nothing will.

you are working under false impression that PB as a trait denies a skill for 15s every 3s.
while in reality its mesmers skill + pb + proper interrupt that denies it for 15s.
You dont get " free " PB procs, you have to expand a cooldown for it which is something you ignore.
Not to mention that putting 15s ICD would make the skill unusable as it will go on CD on random kitten skills and not on important stuff like mobility/heal skills.
But as I said, its that 1 skill-full trait left so we have to make sure its dead, as we cant have those. We need more passive brainless sustain/damage traits instead.

[Shao.7236]

20 minutes ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

you are working under false impression that PB as a trait denies a skill for 15s every 3s.
while in reality its mesmers skill + pb + proper interrupt that denies it for 15s.
You dont get " free " PB procs, you have to expand a cooldown for it which is something you ignore.
Not to mention that putting 15s ICD would make the skill unusable as it will go on CD on random kitten skills and not on important stuff like mobility/heal skills.
But as I said, its that 1 skill-full trait left so we have to make sure its dead, as we cant have those. We need more passive brainless sustain/damage traits instead.

What did I just say about Weakness not having to be dependent of the ICD itself that makes the CD higher so you can have accessible Weakness?? Yet you complain about not having enough passive brainless sustain. Sure as hell not knowing what you want or something?

 

Interrupting people willingly is not a difficult task. It's predictable given any situation is evaluated, especially Healing Skills when you have access to an instant Daze. If me alone without Power Block can win a fight easily by just delayed Taunt and Interrupt with only 3 seconds, 15 is way above there as a stronger proc, I also did agree to Azure stating 8 for 8 would be better than 15 for 15.

 

Free PB is relative when people toss everything they have without thinking, the fact it's an interrupt instead of disable is the reason why it's manageable at all, of course it is and that is still not

 

Regardless, you're telling me that people only wait for Power Block and never attempt to CC at all, maybe you do but most Mesmers I've fought do it as much as they can. So whatever, refute the idea that having more Weakness is a poor idea I guess, I'd go as far to suggest that instead of just having Weakness on interrupt it should have it on disabled as a primary function and secondary if interrupted instead of applying Weakness, the CD is affected.

[apharma.3741]

2 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

you are working under false impression that PB as a trait denies a skill for 15s every 3s.
while in reality its mesmers skill + pb + proper interrupt that denies it for 15s.
You dont get " free " PB procs, you have to expand a cooldown for it which is something you ignore.
Not to mention that putting 15s ICD would make the skill unusable as it will go on CD on random kitten skills and not on important stuff like mobility/heal skills.
But as I said, its that 1 skill-full trait left so we have to make sure its dead, as we cant have those. We need more passive brainless sustain/damage traits instead.

You're "discussing" with a guy who advocates removing what little counterplay there is to a skill based on a balance oversight. This is what I said the game was making back in HoT when the game was becoming more spam, more faceroll and the skill floor was dropping. Now you have a playerbase that has largely never had to cover cast, that thinks they should be able to cast anything with impunity, that "optimal rotation" is a thing in PvP and that high boon uptime or immediate access to boons is your god given right.

 

At the topic in general. Interrupting stuff is a skillful mechanic, it's a lot more skillfull than "get benefit for using something" which plagues the game. I said back when people were complaining about CI that the problem was CC and CC spam, they made CI useless. Oh look barely touched CC spam and now people complain about the other useful interrupt trait, almost like the problem wasn't really the traits as opposed to the easy access to plentiful CC.

[Shao.7236]

1 hour ago, apharma.3741 said:

You're "discussing" with a guy who advocates removing what little counterplay there is to a skill based on a balance oversight. This is what I said the game was making back in HoT when the game was becoming more spam, more faceroll and the skill floor was dropping. Now you have a playerbase that has largely never had to cover cast, that thinks they should be able to cast anything with impunity, that "optimal rotation" is a thing in PvP and that high boon uptime or immediate access to boons is your god given right.

 

At the topic in general. Interrupting stuff is a skillful mechanic, it's a lot more skillfull than "get benefit for using something" which plagues the game. I said back when people were complaining about CI that the problem was CC and CC spam, they made CI useless. Oh look barely touched CC spam and now people complain about the other useful interrupt trait, almost like the problem wasn't really the traits as opposed to the easy access to plentiful CC.

Wow it's so skilled to use an instant interrupt over and over to the slightest show case of animation, if not having the already obvious bright light and unique sound that plays on 90% of all the healing skills.

 

It'd be a shame that we would consider giving uniformity to a class where they demand some form of sustain proven by the last post I've replied.

 

You never have anything good to say, don't think you ever will considering the track record of hate you have exclusively to me, so much so that you forget the context completely. It shouldn't be surprising given how misunderstood the suggestion is already.

 

I'm totally destroying the class by suggesting a mechanic that is found in many current overused builds in addition of a less bloated existing one to the current complains.

 

It wouldn't be skilled at all to ask the players to be more consistent with their interrupt under a middle ground value that rewards and cost the same instead of a little cost that has high reward but with no additional use that could prove itself to be useful in other ways the players so beg to have.

 

Thank you for your very direct input to something you don't understand.

[apharma.3741]

6 minutes ago, Shao.7236 said:

Wow it's so skilled to use an instant interrupt over and over to the slightest show case of animation, if not having the already obvious bright light and unique sound that plays on 90% of all the healing skills.

 

It'd be a shame that we would consider giving uniformity to a class where they demand some form of sustain proven by the last post I've replied.

 

You never have anything good to say, don't think you ever will considering the track record of hate you have exclusively to me, so much so that you forget the context completely. It shouldn't be surprising given how misunderstood the suggestion is already.

 

I'm totally destroying the class by suggesting a mechanic that is found in many current overused builds in addition of a less bloated existing one to the current complains.

 

It wouldn't be skilled at all to ask the players to be more consistent with their interrupt under a middle ground value that rewards and cost the same instead of a little cost that has high reward but with no additional use that could prove itself to be useful in other ways the players so beg to have.

 

Thank you for your very direct input to something you don't understand.

What are you on about?

 

Interrupting skills for an effect is a lot more skillful than simply using a skill and getting an effect baseline regardless of what or how you use it, it's not a hard concept to understand. Do you honestly beleive all these traits that auto proc an effect when you use a skill applying a condition, boon or CC effect is skillful?

 

This is what you put, word for word:

"The trait is a cool concept, the lack of proper internal cooldown is the problem.

 

If it's gonna be 15 seconds, so should the ICD be as well. Not talking about the weakness but the interrupted skill being set."

 

Putting a 15s ICD on it would actually destroy the skill because if you happen to interrupt something when you're setting yourself or someone else up for damage then the trait is locked out for 15s. There would be no way for you to really control what power block procs on while also having the requirement to actually interrupt a skill except now you need to not CC at all until the skill you want (usually heal) comes around. It's an utterly terrible idea, how many people have to tell you this before it sinks in?

 

I already explained that the problem isn't the trait, it's the spammable CC without drawbacks that is the problem but you just skip past that because you have no clue about the class and lack critical thinking.

[Shao.7236]

2 minutes ago, apharma.3741 said:

What are you on about?

 

Interrupting skills for an effect is a lot more skillful than simply using a skill and getting an effect baseline regardless of what or how you use it, it's not a hard concept to understand. Do you honestly beleive all these traits that auto proc an effect when you use a skill applying a condition, boon or CC effect is skillful?

 

This is what you put, word for word:

"The trait is a cool concept, the lack of proper internal cooldown is the problem.

 

If it's gonna be 15 seconds, so should the ICD be as well. Not talking about the weakness but the interrupted skill being set."

 

Putting a 15s ICD on it would actually destroy the skill because if you happen to interrupt something when you're setting yourself or someone else up for damage then the trait is locked out for 15s. There would be no way for you to really control what power block procs on while also having the requirement to actually interrupt a skill except now you need to not CC at all until the skill you want (usually heal) comes around. It's an utterly terrible idea, how many people have to tell you this before it sinks in?

 

I already explained that the problem isn't the trait, it's the spammable CC without drawbacks that is the problem but you just skip past that because you have no clue about the class and lack critical thinking.

You should read the later posts instead of making conclusions off what you've first seen.

[apharma.3741]

10 minutes ago, Shao.7236 said:

You should read the later posts instead of making conclusions off what you've first seen.

My original post was directed at Leonidrix and then to the greater topic, a cursory glance at your replies indicates there's nothing of value to be gained by reading them in depth.

 

I also notice you sidestepping the interrupt is more skillful than add on effect arguement time and time again.

[Shao.7236]

6 minutes ago, apharma.3741 said:

My original post was directed at Leonidrix and then to the greater topic, a cursory glance at your replies indicates there's nothing of value to be gained by reading them in depth.

 

I also notice you sidestepping the interrupt is more skillful than add on effect arguement time and time again.

Side stepping? I just stated that I do it on a consistent basis with a delayed ranged Taunt and 3 seconds denial alone is enough to put someone in a bad spot. You're going to imply that getting rewarded with 15 seconds of denial for every 3 seconds with the ability to do it instantly is more skillful? Yeah right.

 

The trait would be more balanced with the same structure Lighting Rod, Dwarven Battle Training and Body Blow uses for disables while the additional bonus is increased CD on interrupt has an ICD of it's own based on the amount like 8 seconds to put on repeat.

 

True skill comes from the consistency of doing the same challenge for the more or less equal reward. Classic debate, killing someone in one headshot will always be more skillful than one bodyshot because factually aiming for the head is harder than the body.

 

CC spam is poor excuse in an age where it deals no damage, like I said. You don't understand what's going on here, you don't have to label me as an advocate of scrub tactics when myself I have been off meta for years now and proven GW2 meta builds are very very often the bottom tier of skill with no particular effort towards the gameplay.

[Leonidrex.5649]

4 hours ago, apharma.3741 said:

My original post was directed at Leonidrix and then to the greater topic, a cursory glance at your replies indicates there's nothing of value to be gained by reading them in depth.

 

I also notice you sidestepping the interrupt is more skillful than add on effect arguement time and time again.

shao is the guy that wants to buff shiro, and wants more traits like 
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dwarven_Battle_Training
instead off PB
What he misses is the fact that some players want to actually play the game and be rewarded for playing properly and punished for playing poorly, most classes gets rewarded for existing.
If I wanted instant free gratification I would play power renegade and not power mesmer.
And to everyone who gets pissed that PB rupted your healing skill, Protect it next time.
kitten, even without healing skill you probably have more sustain them pb mesmer anyways lul

[Shao.7236]

16 minutes ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

shao is the guy that wants to buff shiro, and wants more traits like 
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dwarven_Battle_Training
instead off PB
What he misses is the fact that some players want to actually play the game and be rewarded for playing properly and punished for playing poorly, most classes gets rewarded for existing.
If I wanted instant free gratification I would play power renegade and not power mesmer.
And to everyone who gets pissed that PB rupted your healing skill, Protect it next time.
kitten, even without healing skill you probably have more sustain them pb mesmer anyways lul

Buff Shiro how, I was the one who was begging for Riposting Shadows to get nerfed while held at gun point for even suggesting it. You mean Impossible Odds being as worthless as it is? Yeah sure, I like my uniformity and ability to rely on energy more than boons, it sucks don't it.

 

I could careless being interrupted by PB, your loss if you don't want sustain. I do believe that the trait is bloated too much on one direction and it's wasted potential that would keep facerolling away.

 

Just realize what you're saying here, every profession in the game has to deal with the classic 3 seconds interrupt and do fine while you find it mandatory to have 15 seconds every 3 seconds. That says much about the state of the class.

Edited May 31, 2021 by Shao.7236

[JazzXman.7018]

11 hours ago, apharma.3741 said:

I already explained that the problem isn't the trait, it's the spammable CC without drawbacks that is the problem but you just skip past that because you have no clue about the class and lack critical thinking.

mes only has mantra (currently 48 secs cd for 2 short dazes, big lol,  not doing anything on simple hit since you can lit facetank a short daze even on the squishiest build in the game most of the time) and f3 (38 secs cd, 32,25 traited, cant be reduced by mantra charge anymore, what was a good change, can be resetted by signet of illusion with 60 secs cd, i agree a signet resetting all shatters should not exist). 

 

that is far away from an oppressive amount of interrupt focused skills. esp considering that powerblock as a trait requires to interrupt keyskills in keymoments what adds a lot of cd to the whole mechanic. you cannot spam the interupt cc-skills on cooldown and be happy with a lucky random interupt on autoattacks (like old ci) to turn the fight into your favor. means the reality-cooldown for interrupt cc is even way higher bc of the very situational traitreward from powerblock and why i say powerblock is lit one of the best designed traits in the game. we need more of those, not less.

 

all other cc skills mesmer has access to have insane delay between caststart and cc-hit and good visible animation (only exception is pistol with a bit too short casttime and too bad visible animation for an overly long lock down hard cc stun on a burst class like mes), means they are reactive. you have no excuse at all, to get interupted by them since you have a no cooldown instant counter with stow, with which you always can prevent the interrupt trait reward proc to 100%. you also have a shorter cooldown instant dodge mechanic to counter the trait proc/ counter the interrupt. those other cc skills are mostly either totally underpowered  interupt skills (like torch, its only a short daze but it is not instant bc it does also dmg in addition, the delay is too long to even be able to interupt stuff reactive, means well timed after a target started a cast) or they are lock down cc with absolutely different main purpose and more offensive main purpose.

 

with other words: cc skills like stun, knockdown etc (cc that prevents not only skilluse for short time but also movement and dodges) are lock down cc with big value on simple hit already,  and not interrupt focused cc with low value on simpel hit). they have the more offensive main purpose of pin downing the target and hitting follow up dmg. and with a reactive casttime/ animation they are also not rly consitent usable for reactive interrupt gameplay (esp for traits which do not proc full value on simple autoattack rupts already), they only can interupt keyskills in keymoments on guess/ expectation and that only on predictable playing targets or targets who got so hard in trouble/ under pressure that they are predictable due to their lack of counterplay options left.

 

so in a fast paced game with such a short average casttime (3/4 secs on lot of keyskills/ gamewide average), a valid and realiable interupt tool providing reactive (not only on guess) and conistent interupts need to be range, instant, esp with higly tactical and situational traitrewards like powerblock. and all interrupt traits need to be balanced around that range, instant tool. 

 

esp since as explained in my previous post: every countermove adds another reaction time to the mesmer, and when you outplay human reaction time well by well timed not totally predicable counter moves there is no way to interrupt skills with 1 secs and less casttime with cc skills with own reactive casttime (bc human reaction time+latency+ reactive casttime of the interupt tool will be over 3/4 secs already)

 

*so what nerfs/ reworks are rly needed to pb/ daze mantra?*

1. as explained the cds for interupt cc on mesmer are not too short, atm daze mantra is even a bit overnerfed in cd, 18 secs count recharge would be more balanced, while increasing the icd between the 2 dazes to 5 or 6 secs from currently 4.

2. also they should add the mantra icon back into the mesmers buffbar so the opponent can see if a mesmer uses a mantra and if the mes has instant charges rdy to use or not.

 

there is nothing else needed to make this most skillful interrupt mechanic balanced and fair. esp since getting interrupted on keyskills in keymoments has so much counterplay.

Edited May 31, 2021 by JazzXman.7018

[Tayga.3192]

On 5/29/2021 at 7:43 PM, Leonidrex.5649 said:

things that work.
1 Stability/aegis/blind ( guard, engi, ranger, thief )
2 Teleporting out of range/behind LoS ( mesmer, thief, rev, necro )
3 Stealth ( mesmer, thief, engi, ranger )
The reality is people dont even try to protect their healing skills, as most classes cant really do kitten about them.
Here comes mesmer and you actually have to use your healing skill properly and everyone loses their mind!
Its not a rocket science for holo to stealth and THEN heal, or for ranger to stealth with lb3 and then heal,
or for necro to heal -> wait 0,2s -> worm/spectral and get it off.
In the end warrior is like the only class that you cant do much against PB, and even then they can just evade spam dodge, untill they are so kittening far away or in a safe spot and then heal.
BTW you can also stun mesmer and walk behind them, as they can mantra people in front of them only.

You forgot baiting interrupts by using and then stowing heal before you actually need to heal, in case of 1v1s.

Edited May 31, 2021 by Tayga.3192

[Leonidrex.5649]

20 minutes ago, Tayga.3192 said:

You forgot baiting interrupts by using and then stowing heal before you actually need to heal, in case of 1v1s.

true, I bet there is loads of different things you can do.
even healing at like 80% hp, even if you get rupted you play def and survive, and your heal comes back faster then mesmers CC anyways. there is loads of things you can do

[apharma.3741]

43 minutes ago, JazzXman.7018 said:

mes only has mantra (currently 48 secs cd for 2 short dazes, big lol,  not doing anything on simple hit since you can lit facetank a short daze even on the squishiest build in the game most of the time) and f3 (38 secs cd, 32,25 traited, cant be reduced by mantra charge anymore, what was a good change, can be resetted by signet of illusion with 60 secs cd, i agree a signet resetting all shatters should not exist). 

 

that is far away from an oppressive amount of interrupt focused skills. esp considering that powerblock as a trait requires to interrupt keyskills in keymoments what adds a lot of cd to the whole mechanic. you cannot spam the interupt cc-skills on cooldown and be happy with a lucky random interupt on autoattacks (like old ci) to turn the fight into your favor. means the reality-cooldown for interrupt cc is even way higher bc of the very situational traitreward from powerblock and why i say powerblock is lit one of the best designed traits in the game. we need more of those, not less.

 

all other cc skills mesmer has access to have insane delay between caststart and cc-hit and good visible animation (only exception is pistol with a bit too short casttime and too bad visible animation for an overly long lock down hard cc stun on a burst class like mes), means they are reactive. you have no excuse at all, to get interupted by them since you have a no cooldown instant counter with stow, with which you always can prevent the interrupt trait reward proc to 100%. you also have a shorter cooldown instant dodge mechanic to counter the trait proc/ counter the interrupt. those other cc skills are mostly either totally underpowered  interupt skills (like torch, its only a short daze but it is not instant bc it does also dmg in addition, the delay is too long to even be able to interupt stuff reactive, means well timed after a target started a cast) or they are lock down cc with absolutely different main purpose and more offensive main purpose.

 

with other words: cc skills like stun, knockdown etc (cc that prevents not only skilluse for short time but also movement and dodges) are lock down cc with big value on simple hit already,  and not interrupt focused cc with low value on simpel hit). they have the more offensive main purpose of pin downing the target and hitting follow up dmg. and with a reactive casttime/ animation they are also not rly consitent usable for reactive interrupt gameplay (esp for traits which do not proc full value on simple autoattack rupts already), they only can interupt keyskills in keymoments on guess/ expectation and that only on predictable playing targets or targets who got so hard in trouble/ under pressure that they are predictable due to their lack of counterplay options left.

 

so in a fast paced game with such a short average casttime (3/4 secs on lot of keyskills/ gamewide average), a valid and realiable interupt tool providing reactive (not only on guess) and conistent interupts need to be range, instant, esp with higly tactical and situational traitrewards like powerblock. and all interrupt traits need to be balanced around that range, instant tool. 

 

esp since as explained in my previous post: every countermove adds another reaction time to the mesmer, and when you outplay human reaction time well by well timed not totally predicable counter moves there is no way to interrupt skills with 1 secs and less casttime with cc skills with own reactive casttime (bc human reaction time+latency+ reactive casttime of the interupt tool will be over 3/4 secs already)

 

*so what nerfs/ reworks are rly needed to pb/ daze mantra?*

1. as explained the cds for interupt cc on mesmer are not too short, atm daze mantra is even a bit overnerfed in cd, 18 secs count recharge would be more balanced, while increasing the icd between the 2 dazes to 5 or 6 secs from currently 4.

2. also they should add the mantra icon back into the mesmers buffbar so the opponent can see if a mesmer uses a mantra and if the mes has instant charges rdy to use or not.

 

there is nothing else needed to make this most skillful interrupt mechanic balanced and fair. esp since getting interrupted on keyskills in keymoments has so much counterplay.

Don't get me wrong I don't think CC needs massive nerfs like others do but there's a lot of enablers of CC spam for mesmer.

 

Continuum Split, Sword Ambush (yes I know defense/offense) and signet of illusions which you touched on too. Putting a 5s cool down on MoD would be nice but without the trade off of having to charge it up the skill feels silly at the least. The reset on pistol skills if you take the trait doesn't help with the "CC spam" label mesmer has even if there's classes far more guilty of this.

 

I think it's high time ANet got it's act together though, decide if a CC is for set up or interrupting. Make interrupt CC fast/instant maybe with a facing requirement but short duration 1/2s and set up CC longer cast maybe not needing to be facing enemy and long duration.

 

The mantras on the buff bar is a nice idea.

[Alabastrum.9361]

The entire fake cast arfument isnt working at all when you realise the mesmer can wait till the last moment to interrupt a skill with his instant cast rupts. 

The reality is that rupting 3/4 and more cast times isnt difficult if you do it with instant cast. Even on a reaction time of 0.25 sec and 250ms lag you would still have a time window of at least 0.25 sec.

some heals like necro and warrior have 1 sec cast time.

 

If every person had bad reactions like that then every daze would be like a 0.25 sec hard cc at least. Conidering the time window for the heal rupt in addition to the reaction time to the rupt of heal. A mesmer player, even in this slow reaction world, could set up a full shatter combo rupt midway through and get a "guaranted" kill.

 

I think its clear that reaction times are very much shorter especially when ppl are actively looking for things and are ready for the follow up. 

The reason I dislike power block myself is because it makes a punishing core game mechanic interrupting even more powerful. but not by 100% by unreasinable 250%.

It adds 10 sec to the normal 4.

 

PS to permanently lockdown a skill you need an interupt with less than 15s, 2 with an average of >29sec, 3 with average of  > 43 sec ( oh wait doesnt mesmer qualify for that?)

 

PPS: A change that reduces the 10 sec to 4 would be fair is what I am thinking.

Edited May 31, 2021 by Alabastrum.9361