This has got to be the most underrated MMO ever...why?

[shrew.3059]

15 minutes ago, ProtoGunner.4953 said:

Fact is that gameplay wise GW2 is so superior to most established MMOs like WoW and FF. These games feel stiff and ancient. Coming from console games like Devil May Cry and God of War etc. WoW always felt stupid, ancient and stiff gameplay wise. The rest is great though. But GW2 feels so much better and fun combat wise and I compare other online games with the fluidity of GW2.

Oh, I forgot to mention, I remember when I played WoW for the first time. I was shocked how bad it felt. Horrible. I was really surprised how 'good' people though this game is. It was bad gameplay wise, bad graphics wise. I mean back then I had games like Ratchet & Clank or Jak & Daxter on the PlayStation 2. 

 

It’s amazing what you can get used to, or how easily that can be spoiled. There are a lot of things to like about WoW, but after the fluidity of GW2 combat, the freedom to play solo if I want, and the beauty of the world, it’s hard to go back. But if WoW is all you’ve ever known, or if the things I just mentioned are not a priority, I can see how people would not be interested. The impact of psychological inertia and game priorities vary from player to player and even from moment to moment as player lifestyles change.

[Klowdy.3126]

5 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

This just shows where your preference lies - style over substance, fashion over gameplay, etc.

You can keep living in your own fantasy world if you want, it doesnt change the undisputable fact there is nothing about the cosmetics in the gemstore that make you more competitive.

No man, you just need to change the definition of words, then it all makes sense. 

Judge: I sentence you to 20 yea...

Defendant: Your honor, I swapped the meanings of murder and tickle, sooo...

Judge:... ... ... you're free to go.

[SEED.9051]

After seeing peoples reactions to the game and many a discussions, I've come to the absolute conclusion on why this game is how it is:

 

Baby's first MMO

[Gibson.4036]

1 hour ago, SEED.9051 said:

After seeing peoples reactions to the game and many a discussions, I've come to the absolute conclusion on why this game is how it is:

 

Baby's first MMO

Huh. I see the opposite. Plenty of players who have had their fill of the status quo MMOs, and wanted something different.

[Vayne.8563]

22 hours ago, zombyturtle.5980 said:

Yes I do know it is true. Right from the beginning this game had to be redesigned to add heart 'quests' because most of its players disliked the directionless of events only. The game even lost a huge portion of its players due to lack of progression when it launched.

WoW is not the only MMO with typical mmo features like vertical progression and questing, thats why they are typical mmo industry feature..not a wow specific feature. 

I dont know what weird issue you have with wow players or hardcore players from other MMOs but its still not relevant to what I was talking about.

Alternate hypothesis.

Standard features in MMOs because standard features in MMOs not because they work but because everyone copies the industry leader. You see this in every entertainment industry...mine was publishing. At a Scifi Convention an editor from Ace books was asked what a new author could do to get published. She answered, "Find something that sells and write something just like it."

It's not the answer people want to hear but if you want to sell to investors and publishers, you need to put out something that they can get behind. Saying we can get behind that WoW money, because they;'re making a fortune, so we'll be WoW and add some dynamic events (Rift).  WoW and add some bioware Star Wars storyline (SWToR).  The thing is just as many games with these common elements do worse than Guild Wars 2 than as good.

So your theory that these common elements are there because they're proven is simply fantasy. These are common elements because it's safer to invest in a known quantity.

[Dante.1508]

On 6/2/2021 at 12:44 AM, CokerOne.6179 said:

I played this this briefly when it launched and decided to try it again a couple weeks ago.

 

I can't believe how good this game really is now that I have given it an honest try and it's left me really surprised.

 

I heard on a video I was watching that it's number 8 of most played MMOs right now.  That seems crazy to me.

 

So what is it that keeps this game so low on the list?  That is if it really is #8....

 

Also is there confirmation on a guild wars 3 in development?

A few things i can name off my head.

 

• Lack of trinity style game play.
• New player experience sucks badly.
• Really hard game play.
• Really hard raid type bosses in the later stories make customers quit (Southsun and onwards).
• Insane amount of grind based currencies.
• Maps tend to confuse casual players (e.g. HoT)
• Way to much crowd control immunity and usage later game.
• Enemies tend to be really tedious to fight later game, which wears on players imo.
• Gear is incredibly hard to get early on.
• Money is incredibly hard to get outside of zerg metas.
• Lack of updates tend to make people move on.
• Really really expensive cash shop.
• Mounts just got more and more tedious to get.
• Crafting is an incredible chore to get them all done.
• Classes are vastly imbalanced.

Edited October 15, 2021 by Dante.1508

[Cyndercat.7615]

2 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Alternate hypothesis.

Standard features in MMOs because standard features in MMOs not because they work but because everyone copies the industry leader. You see this in every entertainment industry...mine was publishing. At a Scifi Convention an editor from Ace books was asked what a new author could do to get published. She answered, "Find something that sells and write something just like it."

It's not the answer people want to hear but if you want to sell to investors and publishers, you need to put out something that they can get behind. Saying we can get behind that WoW money, because they;'re making a fortune, so we'll be WoW and add some dynamic events (Rift).  WoW and add some bioware Star Wars storyline (SWToR).  The thing is just as many games with these common elements do worse than Guild Wars 2 than as good.

So your theory that these common elements are there because they're proven is simply fantasy. These are common elements because it's safer to invest in a known quantity.

I never once said they are proven or objectivly good. im getting fed up of people taking my point out of context tbh. in fact i said its not a bad thing gw2 breaks away from standard mmo archetypes. you are right they mostly exist due to other succeasful games however that does not change the fact these archetypes exist in most games, and are what many people expect mmos to contain. and therefore many will be confused or dislike when a game breaks away from standard mmo forumla. hence why gw2 remains niche. thats all.

[shrew.3059]

12 hours ago, SEED.9051 said:

Baby's first MMO

 

Because nothing says “Adulthood” like a gear treadmill. Good thing there are games out there for big, responsible adults like you.

[Dawdler.8521]

3 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

A few things i can name off my head.

 

• Lack of trinity style game play.

Completely ignoring the trinity of the minstrel firebrand, the marauder scourge and the holy scrapper.

But I guess some people dont play WvW.

 

Edited October 15, 2021 by Dawdler.8521

[Gehenna.3625]

22 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Completely ignoring the trinity of the minstrel firebrand, the marauder scourge and the holy scrapper.

But I guess some people dont play WvW.

 

Well that's not the same as the trinity gameplay that he's talking about. Most MMOs have the tank, dps, heal trinity for structured group content. In this game that would be sPvP, Dungeons, Fractals and Raids. Now, if I'm not mistaken there is a trinity in Raids. It might not be the same but I've definitely heard tanks and healers (support) in the descriptions of raid teams. So there it might apply.

[Dawdler.8521]

3 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Well that's not the same as the trinity gameplay that he's talking about. Most MMOs have the tank, dps, heal trinity for structured group content. In this game that would be sPvP, Dungeons, Fractals and Raids. Now, if I'm not mistaken there is a trinity in Raids. It might not be the same but I've definitely heard tanks and healers (support) in the descriptions of raid teams. So there it might apply.

In WvW you literally run frontline tanks (firebrand), backline dps (scourge) and healers (scrapper). That's been the meta for a few years now (with only the healer being replaced over these 9 years).

So guess that's the wrong trinity.

Also lol at WvW not being "structured group content". 

So what other group content in GW2 has 50 people squads (sometimes all guild members) with tank, dps and healer meta builds all on discord?

[Gehenna.3625]

1 hour ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

In WvW you literally run frontline tanks (firebrand), backline dps (scourge) and healers (scrapper). That's been the meta for a few years now (with only the healer being replaced over these 9 years).

So guess that's the wrong trinity.

Also lol at WvW not being "structured group content". 

So what other group content in GW2 has 50 people squads (sometimes all guild members) with tank, dps and healer meta builds all on discord?

Well it's not strictly structured group content because you can still take part in the content of WvW outside of such a group. I dabble in WvW, meaning I play it for 1-2 hours each day and never saw the point of going that far into it, but if what you describes does happen and I assume you know what you're talking about, then yeah people do play WvW as structured group content, but by itself WvW isn't automatically SGC.

Edited October 16, 2021 by Gehenna.3625

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Well it's not strictly structured group content because you can still take part in the content of WvW outside of such a group. I dabble in WvW, meaning I play it for 1-2 hours each day and never saw the point of going that far into it, but if what you describes does happen and I assume you know what you're talking about, then yeah people do play WvW as structured group content, but by itself WvW isn't automatically SGC.

Then neither is a casual fractal with friends or sPvP outside tournaments really.

[radda.8920]

On 10/15/2021 at 9:28 AM, Dante.1508 said:

       Really hard game play.

• Really hard raid type bosses in the later stories make customers quit (Southsun and onwards).
• Maps tend to confuse casual players (e.g. HoT)
• Enemies tend to be really tedious to fight later game, which wears on players imo.
•  

 

 

since when do we have april fools jokes in the middle of october?

Edited October 16, 2021 by radda.8920

[battledrone.8315]

12 hours ago, radda.8920 said:

 

 

since when do we have april fools jokes in the middle of october?

im pretty sure it was the same month, that a big mmo tried to sell an expansion based on fishing

 

[Vayne.8563]

1 hour ago, battledrone.8315 said:

im pretty sure it was the same month, that a big mmo tried to sell an expansion based on fishing

 

Pretty sure they're selling the MMO based on it being Cantha. The fishing is something that has been asked for for a long time by lots of people. It's not my thing either, and I have no idea why it's popular in MMOs, but let's not ignore the popularity of Cantha itself. The only "big" addition left to add since we have mounts and gliding would be housing.  But the longest running thread in this forums history (before the new forum anyway), was the Cantha thread.

[battledrone.8315]

6 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Pretty sure they're selling the MMO based on it being Cantha. The fishing is something that has been asked for for a long time by lots of people. It's not my thing either, and I have no idea why it's popular in MMOs, but let's not ignore the popularity of Cantha itself. The only "big" addition left to add since we have mounts and gliding would be housing.  But the longest running thread in this forums history (before the new forum anyway), was the Cantha thread.

cantha is only the reason for those , who have seen it before. cantha is a meaningless word to the general public.

and they have plenty of stunning landscapes already. its like trying to catch a glimpse of mona lisa, while being chased by

a pack of rabid dogs.

 

[Vayne.8563]

8 hours ago, battledrone.8315 said:

cantha is only the reason for those , who have seen it before. cantha is a meaningless word to the general public.

and they have plenty of stunning landscapes already. its like trying to catch a glimpse of mona lisa, while being chased by

a pack of rabid dogs.

 

First of all, there is no general public anymore as far as a 9 year old MMO is concerned. The vast majority of people who wanted to try this game have already tried it and pretty much nothing besides maybe housing would get anyone here who hasn't already tried it. 

More importantly there are people in guilds who talk about Cantha and their friends and Guildies have heard them talk about Cantha for a long time.  The excitement for Cantha gets communiticated through the player base. Last week at guild missions someone was talking about Shiro and the Jade Sea and also the Am Fah and the Jade Brotherhood and people who'd never seen it before were interested.

 

Guild Wars 2 isn't going to get zillions of new players based on anything they can add 9 years down the road, but it can get people to come back, and it can get people to be interested.

Do you really think many people came back because of gliding when many other MMOs have flying mounts?  Do you think people in other games who get mounts at level 10 really delved into how good Guild Wars 2's mounts were.

This game has always sold on word of mouth. If I'm excited about Cantha and I'm talking to my friends, then I'm going to be a much better selling tool than anything else.

As for the stunning landscapes, they have mounts you can rent in the new Shing Jea, as an example, which will autoguide you along more or less safe routes allowing you to change speeds or even stop to view the landscape.  

Anyway, the general public as a whole doesn't start playing a 9 year MMO they've never touched. You need new and returning players.  And a lot of us are Guild Wars 1 players.

[battledrone.8315]

11 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

First of all, there is no general public anymore as far as a 9 year old MMO is concerned. The vast majority of people who wanted to try this game have already tried it and pretty much nothing besides maybe housing would get anyone here who hasn't already tried it. 

More importantly there are people in guilds who talk about Cantha and their friends and Guildies have heard them talk about Cantha for a long time.  The excitement for Cantha gets communiticated through the player base. Last week at guild missions someone was talking about Shiro and the Jade Sea and also the Am Fah and the Jade Brotherhood and people who'd never seen it before were interested.

 

Guild Wars 2 isn't going to get zillions of new players based on anything they can add 9 years down the road, but it can get people to come back, and it can get people to be interested.

Do you really think many people came back because of gliding when many other MMOs have flying mounts?  Do you think people in other games who get mounts at level 10 really delved into how good Guild Wars 2's mounts were.

This game has always sold on word of mouth. If I'm excited about Cantha and I'm talking to my friends, then I'm going to be a much better selling tool than anything else.

As for the stunning landscapes, they have mounts you can rent in the new Shing Jea, as an example, which will autoguide you along more or less safe routes allowing you to change speeds or even stop to view the landscape.  

Anyway, the general public as a whole doesn't start playing a 9 year MMO they've never touched. You need new and returning players.  And a lot of us are Guild Wars 1 players.

so, your friends, (who arent playing the game), arent part of the general public? 

and trying to recapture the magic of a former success is almost impossible to do.

there is already a thread complaining about the shade of green they have used.

lets just say, that its a success...BAM...1 mio sold units in the 1st day.

they still have the bad PR from roughly 4 mio players in core game

the "word of mouth" tactic is always going to fail for them, as long as that problem exists

[Vayne.8563]

6 hours ago, battledrone.8315 said:

so, your friends, (who arent playing the game), arent part of the general public? 

and trying to recapture the magic of a former success is almost impossible to do.

there is already a thread complaining about the shade of green they have used.

lets just say, that its a success...BAM...1 mio sold units in the 1st day.

they still have the bad PR from roughly 4 mio players in core game

the "word of mouth" tactic is always going to fail for them, as long as that problem exists

What in interesting question.
Do you suppose that I've never told my friends, who are part of the general public, about Guild Wars 2 before? Do you think my gaming friends don't know I play Guild Wars 2?  I assure you I have exactly zero friends who game that I haven't told about this game.  I've invited many of them to the game and to the guild.

At the end of the day the percentage of my real life friends who play this game is pretty small. Of course the percentage of my real life friends who game is pretty small too.

 

But you know, over the nine years this game has been out, exactly zero of my gamer friends are going to start playing Guild Wars 2 with the new expansion, having already either tried and rejected it, or haven't tried it at all due to lack of interest.

[trev.1045]

I am old, and started with MUDS, as a student. Then i played wow and it was my first mmo and blew me away.

When i first played GW2 it felt very refreshing, i loved the dynamic events and i loved the story personally...i thought that was better than wow by a mile.

 

Heart of thorns seemed hard at first, and the associated quests quite frustrating, but i got through them. 

I have popped on and off occasionally - but never come back long term so why?.

 

I think for me it is the lack of visible progression, i totally get the idea of horizontal progression and understand why it appeals to people. For me on a personal basis, the lack of a way to improve gear significantly does put me off.

It doesnt mean GW2 approach to progression is wrong, just that it doesnt quite work for me 

Also when i logged in after a lot of time off, the result was i would have had to shell out a lot to get the story in the proper order.

If i buy all the expansions, i think i should get the story.

Edited October 18, 2021 by trev.1045