This has got to be the most underrated MMO ever...why?

[radda.8920]

3 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

That is the complete opposite of my experience. These forums aside, I find the community of GW2 to be the most helpful and least toxic of any MMO I’ve played.

I don't think he's talking about the character of the players but rather the skill. It's true that gw2 is one of the less experienced community mmos.

The proof being that pvp, raids and other more complicated content are practiced by very few people. It's one of the only mmo I've played where there are so few players attracted to the challenge

 

That's why it will always remain a game without fame because it does not attract really invested players but rather casuals who just want to farm while drinking a coffee

[Genesis.5169]

On 10/8/2021 at 10:27 PM, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I'm guessing you don't play any other online games?  This one is just laughable.

And to everyone who replied to my post.

Its coming from the heels of how of the the community wants the game to be balanced, It started right after the HoT nerf many people left then the community is anti anyone who is dedicated there are threads asking for the nerf of a pve mount thats how spiteful this community is. Also i have played games,  tekken 7 ff14 aion wow archage bdo etc etc ive been around this community is definitely unique in its wanting to strip any forum of difficulty or rewards for time spent.

Again there was a thread over 20pages asking for mounts to not work because others don't have them you guys have no idea how alone you guys are when it comes to this. Nobody can have a stable class in pvp either people are so afraid of the community crying nerf no one shares if you looked at the pvp forums for 9 years its 9 years of people crying for no reason again this is UNIQUE to GW2. Default mode for the community is can i clear it easy no? It has to die. God kitten this community voted out 5 man queues for pvp.

The way how you guys treat fotm and raid players is absolutely horrible and they have nothing to with OW people, strike missions where released just for that and its not enough for you guys.

Mantra of the forums:
Cut mounts
Cut hard content
Open world too hard
Nerf Class X because i died
Cut raids
Cut fotm
I honestly don't think many people play other games who play gw2 if they did most of them would have some kinda backbone.

For sure this is the most spiteful player base i have ever encountered people get mad at you just for participating in raids/pvp/fotm for no other reason outside of they don't have what you have and its wild because items are meaningless in this game thats what makes it hit way different man.

Edited October 10, 2021 by Genesis.5169

[Diaspro.8529]

I agree with those who says that marketing is one of the prevalent factors that takes the player count lower than other MMOs

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

2 hours ago, Genesis.5169 said:

And to everyone who replied to my post.

Its coming from the heels of how of the the community wants the game to be balanced, It started right after the HoT nerf many people left then the community is anti anyone who is dedicated there are threads asking for the nerf of a pve mount thats how spiteful this community is. Also i have played games,  tekken 7 ff14 aion wow archage bdo etc etc ive been around this community is definitely unique in its wanting to strip any forum of difficulty or rewards for time spent.

Again there was a thread over 20pages asking for mounts to not work because others don't have them you guys have no idea how alone you guys are when it comes to this. Nobody can have a stable class in pvp either people are so afraid of the community crying nerf no one shares if you looked at the pvp forums for 9 years its 9 years of people crying for no reason again this is UNIQUE to GW2. Default mode for the community is can i clear it easy no? It has to die.

The way how you guys treat fotm and raid players is absolutely horrible and they have nothing to with OW people, strike missions where released just for that and its not enough for you guys.

Mantra of the forums:
Cut mounts
Cut hard content
Open world too hard
Nerf Class X because i died
Cut raids
Cut fotm
I honestly don't think many people play other games who play gw2 if they did most of them would have some kinda backbone.

For sure this is the most spiteful player base i have ever encountered people get mad at you just for participating in raids/pvp/fotm for no other reason other side of they don't have what you have and its wild because items are meaningless in this game thats what makes it hit way different man.

You blame the players for that?  How about blaming the stack-in-a-pile gameplay they've saddled themselves with by their insistence on a non-trinity design and simplified UI?  If they'd just allow us to apply targeted effects on allies it would open things up a lot.  But no.  That has nothing to do with any demands by casual players.  In fact, I doubt most of them would even understand or care about this as it only really matters for organized group play.

Also, some of the complaints you list are really just the pet projects of a handful of players who sit on the forums all day whining and are not representative of "the community" at all.  You really think this community is on a crusade to cancel mounts?  They love mounts!  

[kharmin.7683]

9 hours ago, Genesis.5169 said:

 It started right after the HoT nerf many people left then the community is anti anyone who is dedicated

I recall many people leaving after Hot release but prior to the HoT nerf.  And you say those are against players who are dedicated?  I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

[battledrone.8315]

15 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

I recall many people leaving after Hot release but prior to the HoT nerf.  And you say those are against players who are dedicated?  I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

that the HoT nerf made the casuals  leave the game and become forum warriors instead. 

it doesnt make any sense IMO. 

[Genesis.5169]

16 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

I recall many people leaving after Hot release but prior to the HoT nerf.  And you say those are against players who are dedicated?  I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

 

47 minutes ago, battledrone.8315 said:

that the HoT nerf made the casuals  leave the game and become forum warriors instead. 

it doesnt make any sense IMO. 

This community voted out team queues in 5v5 pvp our supposed most dedicated part of the playerbase because its the hardest mode has no backbone, this is a direct reflection of the whole game PvE is just like it but worse we've gone through 9 years of removing content like underwater combat. Another big issue with the community is the inability to see how alone this game is in how devs baby everyone and it wasnt this way.

PvP is bad but PvE players are so bad you get shamed for just participating in fotm or raids the idea of having some kinda expectation of skill makes you guys mad in pvp its the refusal to learn and then demanding of nerfs in PvE its shaming and entire playerbase and the removal of content that you do not do which is way worse there are plenty of posts here and reddit asking for raids to be removal COMPLETELY FOR NO REASON OUTSIDE OF SPITE.

Just read forum history and reddit.

 

Edited October 10, 2021 by Genesis.5169

[shrew.3059]

On 10/9/2021 at 9:58 AM, Genesis.5169 said:

For sure this is the most spiteful player base i have ever encountered people get mad at you just for participating in raids/pvp/fotm for no other reason outside of they don't have what you have and its wild because items are meaningless in this game thats what makes it hit way different man.

 

In my experience the balance of hardcore-casual hate is about the same, but in other MMOs the hardcore players are used to being catered to. Over time this has proven a losing strategy because eventually people have to grow up, get jobs, and can’t play hardcore for 8 hours a day, but they are invested by then. GW2 has never really pretended to cater to those players exclusively, so they aren’t used to be told “it’s not all about you.” Hardcore Privilege is a wonderful drug, but the withdrawal is a killer.

[Gibson.4036]

On 10/9/2021 at 4:58 AM, Genesis.5169 said:

And to everyone who replied to my post.

Its coming from the heels of how of the the community wants the game to be balanced, It started right after the HoT nerf many people left then the community is anti anyone who is dedicated there are threads asking for the nerf of a pve mount thats how spiteful this community is. Also i have played games,  tekken 7 ff14 aion wow archage bdo etc etc ive been around this community is definitely unique in its wanting to strip any forum of difficulty or rewards for time spent.

Again there was a thread over 20pages asking for mounts to not work because others don't have them you guys have no idea how alone you guys are when it comes to this. Nobody can have a stable class in pvp either people are so afraid of the community crying nerf no one shares if you looked at the pvp forums for 9 years its 9 years of people crying for no reason again this is UNIQUE to GW2. Default mode for the community is can i clear it easy no? It has to die. God kitten this community voted out 5 man queues for pvp.

The way how you guys treat fotm and raid players is absolutely horrible and they have nothing to with OW people, strike missions where released just for that and its not enough for you guys.

Mantra of the forums:
Cut mounts
Cut hard content
Open world too hard
Nerf Class X because i died
Cut raids
Cut fotm
I honestly don't think many people play other games who play gw2 if they did most of them would have some kinda backbone.

For sure this is the most spiteful player base i have ever encountered people get mad at you just for participating in raids/pvp/fotm for no other reason outside of they don't have what you have and its wild because items are meaningless in this game thats what makes it hit way different man.

You definitely read that thread differently than I. I would characterize it as 20 pages of a few people complaining and quite a lot of people saying it’s fine, get over it.

[psyt.9415]

I think they should just make this game more sandboxy. They tried raids and doing more theme park type things like fractals and its only managed to pull a small following. They also tried going after the esports crowd and instanced competitive gaming, it didnt work either. New World  and most survival pvp type games are pretty half assed in content (New World questing is God aweful) but people really like those type of games (toggleable pvp, hunting animals in the open world)  it wouldnt be bad to take some ideas from it, BDO and Arche Age (minus the P2W).

 

Have  some houses right in the open world and cities that can be  captured by guilds I think it would build more interest if it was just integrated right into the open world with hot spots with wars happening in the world over various forts and stuff itself.  Just have it able to be flagged on or off like New World. This way people feel like the world is more alive and can see guilds having actual guild wars. Makes it feel more alive in the world and when you see people calling out offensives and defenses in the chat it gets people more involved that might not normally bother with it. Should be able to make a farm plot in the open world, make trade ships, fishing ships, run trade routes and caravans etc between ports etc, allow pirating.

 

Its such a casual game but it lacks a lot of fun casual sand box type content outside of map trains and metas, Beetle racing ?. When they do implement something its often in a less then interactive and fun way. Like I doubt anyone enjoys farming the plots in their home instance as much as they would if they could place a fence out in the world by a house their guild took during a territory war. Solo players can still diddle in their home instance but I think they should just delete the WvW maps there's more pride fighting over say Rata Sum for your Guild rather than some random instanced play area.

 

 

[Vayne.8563]

On 9/24/2021 at 6:02 PM, Dami.5046 said:

Certainly for me, this game lacks in Character progression. You get to level 80, buy some exotics and you are set 'for most' content. There is no reason for most to get ascended or even craft for that matter.

There is no prestige, no willingness to make your characters better, and for me that's what an MMO is all about.

 

    

 

 

This bothers me so much. Stat progression from gear is seen as character progression as a matter of course now, and that's NOT the only type of progression.  Gandalf leveled once during all of Lord of the Rings.  Frodo probably never leveled. Because that's just a game mechanic to make you think you're getting stronger.

In reality, in Guild Wars 2 you get better at the game, WITHOUT your stats going up. I'm much faster at doing certain things now than I ever was before, and that IS progress.  I mean what's the point of getting better and better gear anyway. All are you is a coatrack for greatness.

If my stats go up 10% and everything I fight's stats go up 10% I've actually not progressed at all, because compared to what I'm fighting I have the same relative power.  People have drank this cool aid for so long, they think this is the only progress available.

A chess master plays chess for many years or even decades and never gets more powerful pieces. It doesn't mean he's not progressing.

I know for a fact I'm progressing in this game.

There are other ways to progress too like currencies, achievement points, unlocking skins...all forms of progression.  And masteries are a form of progression as well.

 

WvW, Fractals and PVP all have their own types of progression, so you could try to win tournaments.  But at the end of the day, if you need to see higher numbers on your gear and that's all you need to see you're playing the wrong game.  Which doesn't mean there's no progression. It means only that you have only one type of progression in your repertoire. 

[wolfsblut.9435]

7 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

If my stats go up 10% and everything I fight's stats go up 10% I've actually not progressed at all, because compared to what I'm fighting I have the same relative power.  People have drank this cool aid for so long, they think this is the only progress available.

This kind of progression is about to distinguish them from "other players" not any ingame mob. "I" spend 8 hours a day. "They" can only spend 2 hours a day. "I" deserve to be "better".

That's a problem in GW2. One can only play 2 hours a week and still beat the ordinary 8-hour-guy in any content.
In other games you beat other only by time -  not skill.

[Vayne.8563]

24 minutes ago, wolfsblut.9435 said:

This kind of progression is about to distinguish them from "other players" not any ingame mob. "I" spend 8 hours a day. "They" can only spend 2 hours a day. "I" deserve to be "better".

That's a problem in GW2. One can only play 2 hours a week and still beat the ordinary 8-hour-guy in any content.
In other games you beat other only by time -  not skill.

I don't find that a problem at all. I think that's what makes this game better.

[battledrone.8315]

18 hours ago, Genesis.5169 said:

 

This community voted out team queues in 5v5 pvp our supposed most dedicated part of the playerbase because its the hardest mode has no backbone, this is a direct reflection of the whole game PvE is just like it but worse we've gone through 9 years of removing content like underwater combat. Another big issue with the community is the inability to see how alone this game is in how devs baby everyone and it wasnt this way.

PvP is bad but PvE players are so bad you get shamed for just participating in fotm or raids the idea of having some kinda expectation of skill makes you guys mad in pvp its the refusal to learn and then demanding of nerfs in PvE its shaming and entire playerbase and the removal of content that you do not do which is way worse there are plenty of posts here and reddit asking for raids to be removal COMPLETELY FOR NO REASON OUTSIDE OF SPITE.

Just read forum history and reddit.

 

im at endgame in 4 other mmos, and this one has the hardest i have ever tried. i can raid in other mmos, 

in this one i cant even do the story missions anymore. dont know about pvp, because i dont play it.

i still think, that raids was a big mistake, but they might as well keep those they already have made..

[battledrone.8315]

2 hours ago, psyt.9415 said:

I think they should just make this game more sandboxy. They tried raids and doing more theme park type things like fractals and its only managed to pull a small following. They also tried going after the esports crowd and instanced competitive gaming, it didnt work either. New World  and most survival pvp type games are pretty half assed in content (New World questing is God aweful) but people really like those type of games (toggleable pvp, hunting animals in the open world)  it wouldnt be bad to take some ideas from it, BDO and Arche Age (minus the P2W).

 

Have  some houses right in the open world and cities that can be  captured by guilds I think it would build more interest if it was just integrated right into the open world with hot spots with wars happening in the world over various forts and stuff itself.  Just have it able to be flagged on or off like New World. This way people feel like the world is more alive and can see guilds having actual guild wars. Makes it feel more alive in the world and when you see people calling out offensives and defenses in the chat it gets people more involved that might not normally bother with it. Should be able to make a farm plot in the open world, make trade ships, fishing ships, run trade routes and caravans etc between ports etc, allow pirating.

 

Its such a casual game but it lacks a lot of fun casual sand box type content outside of map trains and metas, Beetle racing ?. When they do implement something its often in a less then interactive and fun way. Like I doubt anyone enjoys farming the plots in their home instance as much as they would if they could place a fence out in the world by a house their guild took during a territory war. Solo players can still diddle in their home instance but I think they should just delete the WvW maps there's more pride fighting over say Rata Sum for your Guild rather than some random instanced play area.

 

 

can you name just ONE big, popular sandbox mmo? sandbox only works in very small mmos, and even then

you will see other players trying to build a big kitten house right in front of your door.

no thanks

[wolfsblut.9435]

55 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

I don't find that a problem at all. I think that's what makes this game better.

Yep, indeed. The "Problem" is, that some ppl do not or can not accept this.

[Dawdler.8521]

On 10/8/2021 at 10:10 PM, Genesis.5169 said:

The community is known to be awful hence many people stay away.

Was doing metrica exploration yesterday and just as I was finishing, someone tagged up mentor and asked if anyone needed help or had questions.

Its just awful what people do to enjoy themselves!

[Dami.5046]

3 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

This bothers me so much. Stat progression from gear is seen as character progression as a matter of course now, and that's NOT the only type of progression.  Gandalf leveled once during all of Lord of the Rings.  Frodo probably never leveled. Because that's just a game mechanic to make you think you're getting stronger.

In reality, in Guild Wars 2 you get better at the game, WITHOUT your stats going up. I'm much faster at doing certain things now than I ever was before, and that IS progress.  I mean what's the point of getting better and better gear anyway. All are you is a coatrack for greatness.

If my stats go up 10% and everything I fight's stats go up 10% I've actually not progressed at all, because compared to what I'm fighting I have the same relative power.  People have drank this cool aid for so long, they think this is the only progress available.

A chess master plays chess for many years or even decades and never gets more powerful pieces. It doesn't mean he's not progressing.

I know for a fact I'm progressing in this game.

There are other ways to progress too like currencies, achievement points, unlocking skins...all forms of progression.  And masteries are a form of progression as well.

 

WvW, Fractals and PVP all have their own types of progression, so you could try to win tournaments.  But at the end of the day, if you need to see higher numbers on your gear and that's all you need to see you're playing the wrong game.  Which doesn't mean there's no progression. It means only that you have only one type of progression in your repertoire. 

Quite a post to say you don't agree with me. 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Dami.5046

[yann.1946]

4 hours ago, wolfsblut.9435 said:

This kind of progression is about to distinguish them from "other players" not any ingame mob. "I" spend 8 hours a day. "They" can only spend 2 hours a day. "I" deserve to be "better".

That's a problem in GW2. One can only play 2 hours a week and still beat the ordinary 8-hour-guy in any content.
In other games you beat other only by time -  not skill.

That is not intrinsically a problem though. It's a different way to approach the game. 

 

Does one care more about time investment or skill. 

 

Ironically gw2 choose the route about skill, which makes the game seem way harder for people who are not good at it and seem way easier for people who are good at it. 

 

This is in my opinion the biggest reason these fora have such a big divide in perception about the game.  This manifests in more then just combat to, TD has this same big split. Etc. 

 

Ofcourse their are more reasons then just skill gaps, but it is an important one. 

[Vayne.8563]

3 hours ago, wolfsblut.9435 said:

Yep, indeed. The "Problem" is, that some ppl do not or can not accept this.

Ah yes, I see. That's why there are different games for different people. But I still believe that the whole gear treadmill thing, is just something that got "sold" to a percentage of people who've never played anything else.

[Vayne.8563]

1 hour ago, Dami.5046 said:

Quite a post to say you don't agree with me. 

Doesn't make it any less true.  I get that you personally don't feel like you're progressing, but I assure you progression is there.

According to the devs a good player does 5 times the amount of damage as an average player. That's a huge discrepancy. You can see if you ever run a damage meter at world events.  Some people get a lot better over time.  Their numbers go up, even if their equipment doesn't. That is in fact a form of progression.

[witcher.3197]

Because Anet always struggled with releasing content for GW2 (except for maybe 2016-2017) so it's widely known as an MMO without endgame content. Of course if you're new that's not true and there's plenty to do, but that doesn't matter if people don't give it a chance because of bad press in the first place.

 

Living story soaks up most of their resources and that's been slowly killing the game for years.

[Dami.5046]

52 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Doesn't make it any less true.  I get that you personally don't feel like you're progressing, but I assure you progression is there.

According to the devs a good player does 5 times the amount of damage as an average player. That's a huge discrepancy. You can see if you ever run a damage meter at world events.  Some people get a lot better over time.  Their numbers go up, even if their equipment doesn't. That is in fact a form of progression.

Look, i get there is progression in the game itself.  I wasn't taking about what the game offers me in terms of achievements and the what not.

I'm used to playing games that mean i have to work for my character to be geared better, not just buy a few bits of the broker and done and certainly not get flamed because I decided to work on Legendaries, because experience in 'other' games make be believe i should always go for the better stuff regardless. 

I have my aims in the game, and tbh *IF* they decided to raise the level i would be all over that. It's unpopular and won't happen so there's not point talking much about it.

This game fails in my opinion by trying to 'please every one all of the time' and that includes making it stupid easy to gear up. 

But it is what it is, i'm doing my purples here and scratching my character progression itch how i see fit else where.

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Dami.5046

[Genesis.5169]

3 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Was doing metrica exploration yesterday and just as I was finishing, someone tagged up mentor and asked if anyone needed help or had questions.

Its just awful what people do to enjoy themselves!

OW community does not count as OW is single player content. You don't even need to party you can but you don't have to if all of them were bots and you never join any party nothing would change. Even on that note the OW community does kitten on pvpers fotm players and raiders.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Genesis.5169

[Gehenna.3625]

20 minutes ago, Genesis.5169 said:

OW community does not count as OW is single player content. You don't even need to party you can but you don't have to if all of them were bots and you never join any party nothing would change. Even on that note the OW community does kitten on pvpers fotm players and raiders.

But how many of those players come to the forums? The vast majority of players of any MMO never come to the forums and people who do come to the forums in large part come to complain about something and not to praise something. So really, when you come to the forums you still don't have a fair reflection of said community and equally there are pvp'ers and raiders that are very condescending to OW/casual players on the forums. And as a community they do count because the vast majority of players do OW content and are mostly casual players. These players keep the game alive, whether you like it or not.