Warrior Is a deadhorse murdered by incompetent balance team

[Puck.3697]

On 6/16/2021 at 5:49 PM, Parobro.8721 said:

guys, lets be real here for a second, i wrote to a friend this: 

 

and this is the true balance, anet needs to look into it and usually doesnt have to do much, literally just a bit more sustain on spellbreaker, here and there some icd adjustments and something against condi manace in terms of more resolution etc, and boom we got a warrior thats prob 5% better but the ceiling to be top 1% warrior player is lowered down to a liked level

 

While I agree with warriors needing a buff it isn't easier with any other class realistically, warriors pretty simple to play, the problem has never been difficulty. 

 

The problem is warrior just got less power creep. Imho warrior needs a overhaul. There are too many traits that are mandatory on warrior. Your weapons are outdated because both of warriors elite weapons haven't been great. 

 

While other classes have only stood to gain from there's. Every class has outdated weapons. And tbh it's likely time they went back and realistically reworked those weapons. 

 

 I'd argue every class has atleast 2 outdated weapons. 

 

imho it's prolly time we had a period of time dedicated to changing up core classes. I do wonder which one at this point would be more hype. 

 

new elites.

reworks of core classes

 

They mentioned balancing etc etc by the new Anet role. And apprantly he was pretty good at getting balancing done better. So maybe he will finally invest the time 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[nthmetal.9652]

On 6/16/2021 at 10:20 PM, SeTect.5918 said:

You underestimate warrior. It has more ccs then every other class and there are classes that got hurted more than warrior.

Maybe warrior has more CCs than every other class, but most of the CCs are in the area of "annoying" rather than "dangerous". They are just too short. Same goes for immobs. Yes, with leg specialist, you can be quite disruptive on short term, but it's all really, really just short.

It is true, that other professions got hurt a lot more than warrior. Ironically one of them is scourge and it STILL is way more useful than warrior.

[SeTect.5918]

12 minutes ago, nthmetal.9652 said:

Maybe warrior has more CCs than every other class, but most of the CCs are in the area of "annoying" rather than "dangerous". They are just too short. Same goes for immobs. Yes, with leg specialist, you can be quite disruptive on short term, but it's all really, really just short.

It is true, that other professions got hurt a lot more than warrior. Ironically one of them is scourge and it STILL is way more useful than warrior.

Ayay dont get me wrong, warrior could still get a small buff again, i just meant that because (not sure if it was u or sth) he told warrior like its bad af now. Because it is not.

To scourge: it didnt get hurt. It got buffed af. Not in WvW, but in PvE its 10x better now....even if before it was op.
Scourge was always op in wvw tho and will always be.

Tbh I dont get what specifically was nerfed on Warrior.


 

Rifle

·         Fierce Shot: This attack now pierces but no longer grants bonus adrenaline against vulnerable targets. Instead, it grants 1 stack of might for 5 seconds to the warrior when hitting a vulnerable target.

• Crack Shot: Instead of granting bonus adrenaline when Fierce Shot hits, this trait now causes Fierce Shot to deal 10% bonus damage in addition to its previous effects.
• Aimed Shot: This skill has been removed.
• Volley: This skill has moved to slot 2 on the weapon.

·         Explosive Shell: This new skill takes slot 3 on rifle, previously occupied by Volley. This attack shoots a large shell at the target that explodes on contact with an enemy. The explosion creates a cone-shaped blast that fires through the target, striking foes behind them and inflicting the crippled condition and vulnerability.

Banners

• Reduced the number of allied targets affected from 10 to 5. The Discipline trait Doubled Standards now increases the number of allied targets from 5 to 10.
• Banners no longer cause blast finishers. They now create a light combo field that persists for 5 seconds after the banner is summoned.

Strength

• Peak Performance: Reduced the additional strike damage applied for a period of time after using a physical skill from 15% to 10% in PvE only.
• Great Fortitude: This trait now increases ferocity by 10% of vitality.

Defense

• Cull the Weak: Increased damage bonus from 7% to 10% in PvE only.
• Spiked Armor has been renamed Hardened Armor.

Tactics

• Marching Orders: Reduced internal cooldown to gain Soldier's Focus from 15 seconds to 10 seconds.
• Leg Specialist: Increased damage bonus from 7% to 10% in PvE only.
• Roaring Reveille: Increased duration of the resistance boon granted to the warhorn skill Call of Valor from 2 seconds to 3 seconds.
• Warrior's Cunning: Reduced health threshold for bonus damage from 90% to 80%.

Discipline

• Warrior's Sprint: Increased damage bonus from 7% to 10% in PvE only.
• Doubled Standards: Reduced bonus effect from banners from 100% to 50%. This trait now additionally increases the maximum number of allied targets on banners from 5 to 10.
• Axe Mastery: This trait no longer grants additional ferocity for a second equipped axe.

Spellbreaker

• Sun and Moon Style:
  • Fixed a bug that could cause trait bonuses to be temporarily lost after recovering from the downed state.
  • The main-hand dagger bonus has been reworked to deal an additional 10% strike damage to foes with no boons.
• Attacker's Insight: Each stack of the Insight effect now grants an additional 50 power, precision, and ferocity at level 80 in PvE. Each stack now grants an additional 35 power, precision, and ferocity in PvP and WvW. Previously each stack granted 45 power and ferocity.
• Full Counter: The attack portion of this skill now correctly triggers if the spellbreaker is in midair, allowing the skill to end correctly.
  
  
  
  I mean what exactly got nerfed except banners?
  The Discipline Axe ferocity got nerfed yes. But the Warrios Sprint and Strength buff made that away again. Defense spec, Tactics spec and spellbreaker spec got buffed.
  
  I dont get why exactly it got "murdered"

[Myror.7521]

@SeTect.5918 Im pretty sure he means warrior in pvp. In PvE warrior is all fine.(still dont like bs kitten but who cares) dps is pretty decent and the hard cc skills still deal damage and are pretty good too. 

 

In PvP warrior got so many hard nerfs. It is in this complete out of meta state since last year february and all anet say is: " its the state where we want all classes to be".  Sry to say this anet but if you want to see all classes in warriors state you first need to punish its Main things to obilivion... lols. Why? Well cause thats litterly whst they done not only with the cc damage nerf but in comb with the nerfs before that patch.

 

Warr does high damage with full counter? Nerf it to 0!

 

Warrior got pretty decent heal on healsignet Plus might gereation of spellbraker tether? Kay letz nerf heal Signet and nerf might generation for about 50%

 

Warrior does decent damage on dodge? K letz nerf it for about 70%

 

Warr does decent damage on axe burst? Nah letz nerf all skills for 33% but axe burst for 50%

 

Warrior got decent defence mechanics of the so called traitline? Ok. Letz Set all defence mechs up to 300 sec CD and also nerf its Adrenalin heal.

 

Warrior benefits pretty mutch of its cc on damage to punish range classes? Letz nerf all cc skills to 0 damage and give a kitten. 

 

Okay i could Listen mutch more but srsly they litterly kill all good mechanics of warrior. Now say that its pretty balanced is crap. It isnt balanced it is a death class ... thats what it is! At least PvP wise lol.

 

P.S sry for the a bit rage moment here. But as a warrior pvp main i got a bit frustrated 

Edited July 5, 2021 by Pati.2438

[SeTect.5918]

21 minutes ago, Pati.2438 said:

@SeTect.5918 Im pretty sure he means warrior in pvp. In PvE warrior is all fine.(still dont like bs kitten but who cares) dps is pretty decent and the hard cc skills still deal damage and are pretty good too. 

 

In PvP warrior got so many hard nerfs. It is in this complete out of meta state since last year february and all anet say is: " its the state where we want all classes to be".  Sry to say this anet but if you want to see all classes in warriors state you first need to punish its Main things to obilivion... lols. Why? Well cause thats litterly whst they done not only with the cc damage nerf but in comb with the nerfs before that patch.

 

Warr does high damage with full counter? Nerf it to 0!

 

Warrior got pretty decent heal on healsignet Plus might gereation of spellbraker tether? Kay letz nerf heal Signet and nerf might generation for about 50%

 

Warrior does decent damage on dodge? K letz nerf it for about 70%

 

Warr does decent damage on axe burst? Nah letz nerf all skills for 33% but axe burst for 50%

 

Warrior got decent defence mechanics of the so called traitline? Ok. Letz Set all defence mechs up to 300 sec CD and also nerf its Adrenalin heal.

 

Warrior benefits pretty mutch of its cc on damage to punish range classes? Letz nerf all cc skills to 0 damage and give a kitten. 

 

Okay i could Listen mutch more but srsly they litterly kill all good mechanics of warrior. Now say that its pretty balanced is crap. It isnt balanced it is a death class ... thats what it is! At least PvP wise lol.

 

P.S sry for the a bit rage moment here. But as a warrior pvp main i got a bit frustrated 

Ah i see if its pvp i ll shut up. Am 99% in PvE and WvW. 

I know what u mean tho. In PvP there are some traits that have a cooldown of 150+. Some Elite skills too. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, SeTect.5918 said:

Ah i see if its pvp i ll shut up. Am 99% in PvE and WvW. 

I know what u mean tho. In PvP there are some traits that have a cooldown of 150+. Some Elite skills too. 

They've been normalizing their PvP and WvW balances together. Not the greatest idea ever. I can get some of the balance changes for PvP, but they had no place in WvW. Like overnerfing Hard CCs, overnerfing FC, overnerfing Axe, overnerfing might generation, and overnerfing MMR healing.

[Chimppossible.1829]

On 6/16/2021 at 10:12 PM, sneakytails.5629 said:

Its feels bad in PvP for the following reasons:

 

1. The amulet system restricts choice drastically.

2. Resistance sucks now.

3. Cool-downs are way too high for how fast and constant the action is.

4. Damage removal from CC increased Time to Kill drastically, benefiting classes like Guardian, and bunker builds, and hurting Warrior.

5. Other classes have more things built into weapon skills like teleports and team buffs, Warrior has none of that. The simplicity hurts it.

6. The damage nerfs.

 

 

 

 

On 6/15/2021 at 3:33 PM, JinONplay.8905 said:

I Don't know where to begin with this, Guild wars 2 warrior, maybe the worst class in any MMO i have played, Continuous Unnecesarry  Nerfs after Nerfs, Clunky and outdated weapon and utility animations that hasn't been updated for 4 years, Very Few Builds that can actually help it's class, without discipline it's basically useless as it heavily relies on such trait, it's weapon range and utilities are so small, that you can barely hit anything, In PvP It's been reduced as a main support class. Hammer and CC got nerfed hard that against classes that has long term stability and perma stability deals absolutely nothing, No damage and no Knockdown, SB is the only reliable profession for warrior although it is still mediocore. Warrior must be reworked.

I have to agree there! Also you hardly see warriors anymore at wvw.  There was a time like ten years back you saw to many, and Warrior was very popular.  They are a rare class now at wvw, probably cause other professions have gotten more advantage then them in gameplay.  Wich means the Warrior feels outdated and outplayed.

[Chimppossible.1829]

I dont know how many here play loads of time everyday at wvw? But the Warrior (what ever the reason maybe) is hardly seen anymore at wvw.  1 in 30 maybe less even is a warrior at WvW. Its really the profession i see at the lowest freq of all professions at wvw. Probably its outplayed by other professions, so its not so attractive anymore to play it then. I agree that Warrior is not easy to adjust and its very fast Op or Flop. At the moment its Flop.  Sad cause its a nice profession in a way for a melee class. But at wvw the Warrior is more or less dead.  Sad as it is.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

Too much in discipline to really drop, to not take it tbh. war spirit just removes all immobilize, condi clear on weapon swap as well as adrenaline. Burst mastery isnt too op but it's still a lot better than most traits and it also works with full counter.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

2 minutes ago, Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

Too much in discipline to really drop, to not take it tbh. war spirit just removes all immobilize, condi clear on weapon swap as well as adrenaline. Burst mastery isnt too op but it's still a lot better than most traits and it also works with full counter.

It even can give enough adrenaline to go into Berserk just from swapping or make a kull crack a T3 stun. Quite valuable tbh. 

[artharon.9276]

There's always one person to say "but it's the basic class" "it's the most simple class"  really mate...

I trust every single player can learn to play any class in this game and be good at it regardless of their level of iq, school grades, cv and psych eval. Please quit over estimating extra skillbars and abilities and don't call it complex like it's rocket science. It's not.

 

Back to topic. Warriors does not suffer complexity issues, simply the problem is, as a heavy class, warrior does not offer same amount of damage avoidance in the melee range more than a light armour class that can nuke the crp out of the target at the same time. In that regard, people demand developers to make the class a little simpler to play. Because playing it is not as easy as other classes at the moment. If it requires warriors to gain access to certain buffs, or extra skills or more stuff to read in the build menu, yeah players can handle it, don't worry about it.

[Obtena.7952]

3 hours ago, artharon.9276 said:

There's always one person to say "but it's the basic class" "it's the most simple class"  really mate...

I trust every single player can learn to play any class in this game and be good at it regardless of their level of iq, school grades, cv and psych eval. Please quit over estimating extra skillbars and abilities and don't call it complex like it's rocket science. It's not.

 

 

To be fair, that's the point of having variety in a class-based system. Some classes are hard to play, some are easy and lots are in between ... and that's a GOOD thing for players and the game. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that the simplicity of the warrior class is by design to appeal to those players that don't want to practice Chopin etudes while playing Engi for example. It's also not unreasonable to think that there is some control lost when playing a simple class at the detriment of competitive play. There isn't much Anet can do to 'up' Warrior to be a more competitive class if they are intending it to be the 'easy' class. There is a very fine line of balance on proc'ed effects and many of the skills already have a significant load of effects on them. 

 

I suspect the best Anet could do for warrior is kind of what we see on SB ... some variation on burst with Full Counter AND a choice of what Full Counter does for it from the GM trait. I'm hoping that the next elite spec takes that to the next level and have a F key 'toolbar' approach like Engi does to expand options and choice to address this 'simple' issue that's holding it back. 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Bojjang.1052]

Warrior is trash, anything I can do currently with my warrior I have an easier time achieving with Guardian, Ranger, and Necro.

Ok well trash is a bit over the top. Not fun in any way is better. 

[Caedmon.6798]

27 minutes ago, Bojjang.1052 said:

Warrior is trash, anything I can do currently with my warrior I have an easier time achieving with Guardian, Ranger, and Necro.

Ok well trash is a bit over the top. Not fun in any way is better. 

I havent touched my warri in ages,eventhough it has been my main for years. I always adapted  to every nerf they implemented. But what completely killed it for me personally was the CC change. I loved running hammi, but doing 0 dmg on 3 skills including a burst,killed it for me. Solo roaming became a pain in A aswell when mounts got introduced and the entire roam scene kinda dying out and turned into a gank fiesta ontop of it. All of this made me go to thief as my main,less frustrating,and im able to do a hell of a lot more than my warri is able to.

[artharon.9276]

9 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

To be fair, that's the point of having variety in a class-based system. Some classes are hard to play, some are easy and lots are in between ... and that's a GOOD thing for players and the game. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that the simplicity of the warrior class is by design to appeal to those players that don't want to practice Chopin etudes while playing Engi for example. It's also not unreasonable to think that there is some control lost when playing a simple class at the detriment of competitive play. There isn't much Anet can do to 'up' Warrior to be a more competitive class if they are intending it to be the 'easy' class. There is a very fine line of balance on proc'ed effects and many of the skills already have a significant load of effects on them. 

 

I suspect the best Anet could do for warrior is kind of what we see on SB ... some variation on burst with Full Counter AND a choice of what Full Counter does for it from the GM trait. I'm hoping that the next elite spec takes that to the next level and have a F key 'toolbar' approach like Engi does to expand options and choice to address this 'simple' issue that's holding it back. 

I was one of the guys who quit UI soups like this
9ada107285a5fe014ef65517bf464301.jpg (736×552) (owentertainment.biz)
to embrace gw2's simplicity. 😄

After years people dealt that, people appreciated the gw2, a really really newb friendly game. 10/10 with badas seal it took from angryjoe (another game had it was skyrim I think lol). Even pvp was nice for a new mmo. I started as an engi, it was just fine, some road bumps here and there reading tooltips carefully did the trick. Tbh nothing to exaggerate about it. I retired it though, wanted to bash and smash things.

 

Another example is from lotro's Warden, because that game is supposed to embrace not just rpg fans, but also movie fans and casuals. When this class was released in 2008, people were printing this and sticking it on their desks to just to play the class. Which is basically a skill-building mechanic, you must enter a specific code using building skills in a specific order to execute a bigger skill. simple idea, but it's just an insane amount of combinations and required timings. Totally not casual friendly compared to their warrior-like class.

Warden Gambit Quick Reference - Lotro-Wiki.com

 

But of course, today we have a lot of stuff to deal with, 18 more especs that new players don't know their pros and cons to begin with, no core only pvx content, because they have to sell the powercreep. People have to learn so much about the game compared to vanilla. Anyway sooner or later they learn, and once they learn it as warrior that game offers too little to favour their class, they will be frustrated and if they have the time they will reroll, if they don't then they will quit. Nobody can justify it by saying "because the class is basic".

 

Yes there are some difficulty differences between gw2 classes, but that gap is so tiny, anyone can walk through it. I don't know if someone ever mentioned it somewhere, but gw2's parent NC made a mistake by calling their gladiators "the simple class" to avoid balancing the game, it didn't end up well for the Aion in the western market, way before it turned into a cash grab. So if Anet too falls into that trap to avoid balancing the game, they may start seeing more and more lost streamers to the Fortnite.

 

One last thing about it, newer generation of players no longer chase their role playing character fantasies, mostly they don't even care much about roles anymore. First thing they ask when they start an mmo is which class is the most powerful or demanded highly in he raid groups. They don't even care about what's easy, what's not. 

 

I totally agree on SB, that espec... I feel like it is undercooked, has lots of reused animations, rushed design, almost a sign how much crp anet gives about the warriors. With next espec, I hope they give back and improve the options warriors lost when they removed banner bundles. How about a soldier pet that we can control with a F switch to activate their bundle skills? 😂

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 22, 2021 by artharon.9276

[Aeolus.3615]

On 7/5/2021 at 9:01 PM, nthmetal.9652 said:

Maybe warrior has more CCs than every other class, but most of the CCs are in the area of "annoying" rather than "dangerous". They are just too short. Same goes for immobs. Yes, with leg specialist, you can be quite disruptive on short term, but it's all really, really just short.

It is true, that other professions got hurt a lot more than warrior. Ironically one of them is scourge and it STILL is way more useful than warrior.

 

Dont call that scourge was hurt... the design of that elite spec was to much for the game itself.🤢

Druid CC builds are way more anoying and dangerous than warrior's CC as well,  warrior ir inferior to that spec imo.

 

Warriors should be the class that pushes trough CC and AOE and should be tuned into that at least core should be that.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Warrior should be the class you fear to fight in melee 1v1.

 

Warrior should be the class that breaks the front line in WvW and wrecks havoc once there.

 

Should be, but then the other professions QQ and we get nerfed.

[Aeolus.3615]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Warrior should be the class you fear to fight in melee 1v1.

 

Warrior should be the class that breaks the front line in WvW and wrecks havoc once there.

 

Should be, but then the other professions QQ and we get nerfed.

 

Even banner they make no sense how they are now.... most DPS kings should get their high crit builds bit rduced, if they want the damage it should be towards team play, might stak, banner stats etc, wich i belive why banners were killed, they didnt want to take some very hig numbers on some classes down since they were to become flavour of the year.

 

Sadly Anet optimized combat for necros, FB, scrapper massive  stacking and almost noone of other classes...

 

Note some classes  skills still work with the previous high damage multipliers before the  big nerfs.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Yerlock.4678]

Speaking the truth man. It's such a shame cuz I fell in love with the class way back before all of the endless nerfs consumed it.

- Resistance has essentially been abandoned for this class; an unintended nerf that has made already pathetic skills and utilities utterly garbage. Hot fixing this would be obvious and yet cricket noises are all I've ever heard.

- Speaking of needing better Resistance skills, Blind shuts this entire class down completely. Where every hit and move matters blind negates the warrior completely. And no amount of cleanses is ever enough.

- Base Line adrenaline for weapon swapping and base line Fast Hands is a must. Period. We've been talking about this needed change for years and years. And while it could be seen as power creeping it's really just a QoL change. Actually being able to choose other trait lines other than Discipline will free up the class immeasurably. 

- Hammer and basic CC is nothing for this class does no damage anymore. And because the meta is so tanky we are hitting like wet noodles with all the buffs and zerky gear at our disposal. Sure we can go Berzerker, but that spec is a meme and a gimmick ever since they took away the f2 ability from it.

-Banners are trash

-Shake it Off is a must and is STILL very punishing. 75 seconds is too long.

 

This class just needs BUFFS. That's all we need to start off with just give it some love and stop gutting it Anet. If reworks take more time than w/e but this is honestly inexcusable. The class has been sitting here for years getting trashed on while people all over the community have constantly been pointing out the same problems again and again. 💔

[Aeolus.3615]

Vigorous Shouts trait- add self resolution 6sec base ???

100-200 barrier for each ally afecter by shout? its something, Rev gain self barrier per boon while in combat  so...

Edited July 23, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Just now, Aeolus.3615 said:

Vigorous Shouts trait- add self resolution 6sec base ???

Shrug it off. Gain 3s of resistance when you remove a condition along with what the rest of the trait does.

[Aeolus.3615]

Warrior need to be the guy pushing defenitly... its damage is quite good, but also loosed damage when taited for more defense gameplay so i think theres some space to make it happen w/o being op, or have theneed to go max potato stats to dive in.

Edited July 23, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Aeolus.3615]

I just noticed something... duno why havent noticed this.... shake it off needs to be improved i would ask for less efective but way shorted CD....

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/"Shake_It_Off!" (2-3 condies from 5allies within 600 with a CD of 42sec would feel fair IMO.)

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Purifying_Essence (heavy energy burden while in combat skill for condi cleanse and its hard to cast on moving allies do its small radios.

 

Laughs in tablets horsies 🐴 as a main ventari rev even if can be hard to play with tablet on moving alies.

 

(oh noes double post of shame 🙉)

Edited July 23, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Grand Marshal.4098]

At this point I don't even expect them to add resolution to resistance skills. The only balance patch they do may be the reveal of the new specs. Leaving the rest to rot and create the false idea that balance happened, just because new specs were released.

[Aeolus.3615]

8 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

At this point I don't even expect them to add resolution to resistance skills. The only balance patch they do may be the reveal of the new specs. Leaving the rest to rot and create the false idea that balance happened, just because new specs were released.

Or have loads of personal and perma resolution and resistance will be the reason to buy the new expantion 🙂 ahahah

 

other classes expantion released elite received the perma  effect for certain boons, even if theres a class more in theme to fit that perma boon, so dont worry  imagine  staff longa range warrior with perma resolution 😛 and/or resistance.. while one  poke stuff at range...

 

Edited July 24, 2021 by Aeolus.3615