Legendary Armory: Follow up clarifications

[Linken.6345]

23 minutes ago, DooM.8562 said:

ok but this will be extremely hard as it took me nearly 1 year to make the heavy set

Then in another 2 years you will have a light and medium set mate.

[DooM.8562]

Yeah It seem so 

[Starfall Leyline.2481]

On 7/9/2021 at 5:40 PM, Catmander Neko.5643 said:

Aurora, Vision, Coalescence 

We wanted to make a toggle for the three legendary PVE trinkets (Aurora, Vision and Coalescence). Unfortunately, these three items are setup differently from other items with visual effects and giving them a toggle is a complex problem. That probably sounds silly – it’s just a checkbox, right? A quick peek behind the curtain: these items are set up using a stacking buff (based on the number of equipped legendary trinkets) to determine which visual effect is added to the character model (i.e. the effect is actually added by the buff, not the item). The toggles in the Equipment panel control the visual effects on the items themselves–it’s not changing which item is slotted (i.e. it’s not switching to the slumbering version). This makes it much more difficult to convert them to the system where effects are on the item itself and can be toggled. Conflux and Transcendence previously got their effect from a buff not the item, but because they were a non-stacking buff we were able to move the effect to the item with a small amount of work and allow it to benefit from the toggle. 

Fixing this for Aurora, Vision, and Coalescence would require a rework of the visual effects for these items and how they’re applied (which would likely leave some players unhappy as it would change their appearance), or a significant engineering investment to build a one-off solution. That investment isn’t something we can commit to right now–our engineering team is focused on End of Dragons, Alliances, and DX11. We understand how important this is to all of you and that this isn’t the response you were hoping for, but in the spirit of transparency we wanted to let you know where things currently stand. 

 

 

I admit as soon as the Legendary Armory came out, I was hoping it would come with some kind of toggle. I appreciate the transparency. Really, I do. I'm glad to know it was considered rather than just ignored in silence.

 

Originally this post was in regard to "just unlocking" a non-buff trinket in our Armories. I was wondering why that hadn't been considered, and I hadn't made it through all the replies. However, I later saw that your answer was essentially that doing so would effectively give us two trinkets for the price of one.

 

In some ways, I get this. While everyone with a trinket would effectively get double (2, or 4, etc), people who made legendary rings would have needed to spend the resources on two. And having been down that road, I really do get it.

 

I also appreciate that the option was considered. Admittedly, I'm still really disappointed that there's no solution given. While I get you all are busy with End of Dragons, let's be frank. The team will always be busy with one thing or another.

 

Not being a rich player, I just really shrink at the idea of having to go through all that effort to craft new potential legendary trinkets down the road all over again, just so I can have some I can equip on characters that don't need shiny balls floating over their heads. Perhaps new legendary trinkets are the 'solution' you are expecting with the new expansion.

 

Either way, thank you for replying to people's questions, and my own. It's much appreciated, and while unhappy, I at least feel a bit like I have 'closure' on the topic.

 

Though that doesn't stop me from wanting a solution.

Edited July 25, 2021 by Starfall Leyline.2481

[Starfall Leyline.2481]

On 7/10/2021 at 2:02 AM, Pittcrew.6592 said:

I don’t want to speculate too much on the internal workings of the game, but you saying that did give me an idea that may also work, and which may be an easier solution for the time being, depending on exactly how things are set up, of course.

 

Add an NPC that you can talk to who will disable any/all of the Aurora, Vision, or Coalescence related visual effects. They will be available to talk to you once you have unlocked any of the items on your account (which can now just check if it’s been unlocked in the armory). Essentially, talking to them to disable the effects would give you an additional persistent (infinite duration, remaining through relogs) buff (invisible, like the ones that the items already give are) that, if present, will either (depending on what would make the most sense for how it’s set up): make the effects caused by the stacking buffs not render, or that would be checked by the stacking buffs as a condition before activating the visuals, or that would ‘disable’ or remove the stacking buffs to prevent them from showing/spawning the visual effects.
 

This would be nice, as it would let you choose for each character. It feels like it would be easier as a temporary solution, at least to me, based on how the backend was described, possibly without having to really try to directly tackle reworking the how the stacking buffs are being granted/effects are being played. It isn’t as granular of control as would be ideal, but I do think most people would be happy with an either all or nothing option for now. And this solution could possibly be fairly easily removed/cleaned up later on if they got around to implementing a better solution later, since it may not need to be too heavily configured or interwoven with as many other parts of the ui or systems (as much as, say, configuring checkboxes may need to be). I.e. simply remove the (behavior of the) buff that is suppressing the other stacking buff, remove the npc, and ideally make the buff expire shortly.

 

Anyways, I’m just posting this to see if any engineer that may be reading it thinks it resonates, makes sense, and seems like it would work given how things work in the game already. I am aware of how frustrating it can be to just be told various ideas of how exactly to do something by people who have so little context of how things are actually set up in this specific situation. Hopefully that isn’t how I come off here. I also recognize that this may just contribute even more to ’spaghetti code’ practices, so maybe it really would just be best to leave it as is for now to avoid that.

 

I like this idea, and I hope @Catmander Neko.5643 sees it. It might be a good option for a stop-gap solution without having to rework the trinkets or the system that controls them, and I would jump on it in a heartbeat, personally.

[BlueJin.4127]

Again, if Anet made it so that you need both Aurora and Vision to get slumbering versions of those accessories, this would solve the problem. Getting 4 accessories after making only 2 accessories gives players no advantage what-so-ever.

Edited July 25, 2021 by BlueJin.4127

[HeroineDark.6287]

On 7/12/2021 at 12:49 PM, Catmander Neko.5643 said:

They can still be used in the existing recipe that upgrades it to the awakened version (for anyone impatient for the vendor)

So when can we expect this vendor? It feels real bad to have paid 250 MCs and 77 Clovers on a trinket for 1 character when everything else is all characters. What was behind the decision to not just give everyone with a slumbering a Reliquary instead and remove the need for a "future merchant".

 

PvP has become a festering place of AFKers and flamers, and ATs pit bronze/silver teams against plat teams. I slogged through my PvP wins and AT wins feels like more slogging.

[Starfall Leyline.2481]

3 hours ago, BlueJin.4127 said:

Again, if Anet made it so that you need both Aurora and Vision to get slumbering versions of those accessories, this would solve the problem. Getting 4 accessories after making only 2 accessories gives players no advantage what-so-ever.

 

This would also solve the fairness issue @Catmander Neko.5643 - If you only allow those who have unlocked two of the accessories to get the slumbering versions, it becomes moot since you can only use two accessories at a time anyway, and it gives players who have only one incentive to get the other, while saving those who have already gotten two the trouble of having to go earn another two just to get <insert replacement here>.

[jedi.7041]

So...where is the vendor to exchange slumbering trinkets? What is the purpose to make some people wait?

[Hagbard.7192]

The vendor is "Grandmaster Hobbs in LA"

 

 

[Infusion.7149]

1 hour ago, jedi.7041 said:

So...where is the vendor to exchange slumbering trinkets? What is the purpose to make some people wait?

It's ingame. Grandmaster Hobbs in Lion's Arch.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grandmaster_Craftsman_Hobbs

[Kaatora.3186]

Yes, this may seem late, but we were told to wait 2 weeks to put in a ticket if not contacted. Then I had to wait for the support response telling me to post on the forum instead. That does not make sense, but here I am.

 

Anyway, it seems only a subset of those with multiple sets of legendary armor were compensated. So basically not all edge cases were accounted for, unlike what had been reassured. I have 7 sets of legendary armor--3 of which are from PvE. I got compensated for zero.

 

I was under the impression that legendary skins were the only ones to be put in the armory, and any gear in excess would be compensated in some way. There is only 3 sets of legendary armor skins. So it makes no sense that I have exotic and ascended armor skins in the armory sitting next to the legendary ones I have.

 

It seems like the people "lucky" enough to make multiple armors of the same skin were the only ones "rewarded." And those who dared make multiple sets from different sources have been excluded entirely. While I can understand that those who were to make excess legendary armor in the future would not be compensated, only compensating a subset of those with multiple sets at release is just a kitten move.

 

The thing is, all the armor is functionally the same. And each piece takes just about as much time and effort as any other. The only real difference is that the legendary skin is initially blocked by some trivial achievements. So it makes no sense why there exists any reason to have have multiple armors in the armory, especially when I've also got all the legendary skins as well. And especially with the next point:

 

Having multiple armors in the armory is an absolute detriment. Accidentally clicking an armor one doesn't have "equipped" completely resets it for no apparent reason. This means the stats, rune, infusion, skin, and dye, all have to be fixed manually back, if one can even remember what they were. And given the inconsistencies of dye channels on even the same skin set, or in cases of using a build with mixed skins/stats/runes/etc., having everything reset for no apparent reason when they're all functionally the same is a massive pain and just plain silly in its absurdity.

 

TL;DR: title of thread

[KurokouNekoki.7891]

3 minutes ago, Kaatora.3186 said:

Yes, this may seem late, but we were told to wait 2 weeks to put in a ticket if not contacted. Then I had to wait for the support response telling me to post on the forum instead. That does not make sense, but here I am.

 

Anyway, it seems only a subset of those with multiple sets of legendary armor were compensated. So basically not all edge cases were accounted for, unlike what had been reassured. I have 7 sets of legendary armor--3 of which are from PvE. I got compensated for zero.

 

I was under the impression that legendary skins were the only ones to be put in the armory, and any gear in excess would be compensated in some way. There is only 3 sets of legendary armor skins. So it makes no sense that I have exotic and ascended armor skins in the armory sitting next to the legendary ones I have.

 

It seems like the people "lucky" enough to make multiple armors of the same skin were the only ones "rewarded." And those who dared make multiple sets from different sources have been excluded entirely. While I can understand that those who were to make excess legendary armor in the future would not be compensated, only compensating a subset of those with multiple sets at release is just a kitten move.

 

The thing is, all the armor is functionally the same. And each piece takes just about as much time and effort as any other. The only real difference is that the legendary skin is initially blocked by some trivial achievements. So it makes no sense why there exists any reason to have have multiple armors in the armory, especially when I've also got all the legendary skins as well. And especially with the next point:

 

Having multiple armors in the armory is an absolute detriment. Accidentally clicking an armor one doesn't have "equipped" completely resets it for no apparent reason. This means the stats, rune, infusion, skin, and dye, all have to be fixed manually back, if one can even remember what they were. And given the inconsistencies of dye channels on even the same skin set, or in cases of using a build with mixed skins/stats/runes/etc., having everything reset for no apparent reason when they're all functionally the same is a massive pain and just plain silly in its absurdity.

 

TL;DR: title of thread

As far as I heard, the compensation was 10g per set, or something like that.
----
The equipping and unequipping that resets the skins and the stats is an existing problem though.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

The Devs have explained, multiple times, that only duplicates of the exact same armor would be compensated for.

[KurokouNekoki.7891]

2 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

The Devs have explained, multiple times, that only duplicates of the exact same armor would be compensated for.

^ There is also that.

Which to sumarize it with numbers, if you get 3 Sets of PvE (Heavy, Medium, Light), 3 WvW Sets (Heavy, Medium, Light) and 1 PvP Set, you will receive nothing as a compensation.

[Kaatora.3186]

13 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

The Devs have explained, multiple times, that only duplicates of the exact same armor would be compensated for.

I haven't been playing much, so haven't been keeping up. I have only really seen the initial announcement and its accompanying FAQ.

10 minutes ago, WyvrnRipsnarl.5918 said:

^ There is also that.

Which to sumarize it with numbers, if you get 3 Sets of PvE (Heavy, Medium, Light), 3 WvW Sets (Heavy, Medium, Light) and 1 PvP Set, you will receive nothing as a compensation.

I actually have 4 WvW armors. But that is neither here nor there. I could have just as easily made all 7 of them PvE armors, but did not for no particular reason. I even made the 3 PvE sets before doing the WvW ones, so it's not like I made the PvE ones later for the skin. The only thing that doesn't make this whole thing worse is that I stopped making the armors when the legendary armory was initially announced more than a year ago.

[xaho.2371]

Is my understanding correct that, as someone who had bound Twilight, I could have created Eternity with a bound Twilight pre-LA and sold that Eternity, but now that the LA is there I can no longer do that as the tokens disallow me from ever selling Eternity as I have bound Twilight?

I was thinking of taking that path as I don't really use Twilight anymore, but it seems that option has been taken away now, which kinda sucks in my opinion.

Edited August 3, 2021 by xaho.2371
clarification

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Kaatora.3186 said:

I haven't been playing much, so haven't been keeping up. I have only really seen the initial announcement and its accompanying FAQ.

I actually have 4 WvW armors. But that is neither here nor there. I could have just as easily made all 7 of them PvE armors, but did not for no particular reason. I even made the 3 PvE sets before doing the WvW ones, so it's not like I made the PvE ones later for the skin. The only thing that doesn't make this whole thing worse is that I stopped making the armors when the legendary armory was initially announced more than a year ago.

Are the 4 different skins tho you can have up to 6 wvw armors and still not get compensated since there are glowy and none glowy skins.

[Linken.6345]

6 hours ago, xaho.2371 said:

Is my understanding correct that, as someone who had bound Twilight, I could have created Eternity with a bound Twilight pre-LA and sold that Eternity, but now that the LA is there I can no longer do that as the tokens disallow me from ever selling Eternity as I have bound Twilight?

I was thinking of taking that path as I don't really use Twilight anymore, but it seems that option has been taken away now, which kinda sucks in my opinion.

 

Yea that is correct maybe some of the new especs will use greatsword.

[Starfall Leyline.2481]

Issue Cited by Devs:

 

• The visual effect for Aurora, Vision, and Coalescence isn't applied by the trinkets themselves. It's applied by a hidden buff that stacks on the player.
• This is how the trinkets achieve the "morphing" of the visual effect depending on how many of the trinkets are worn.
• This is what also makes a toggle difficult, as the equipment interface does not have the ability to control the buffs or application of them, and would require re-engineering.
• Devs were concerned about development time investment for a long-term solution due to End of Dragons.

 

Temporary "Quick" Solution:

 

• If the buff reaches a stack greater than 3, have it display no visual effect.
• Give players a clickable inventory item that permanently applies or removes 4 stacks of the buff to a character, so they can turn it on or off at will.

 

Once you have a Long-Term Solution:

 

Just add in the solution you have and remove the clickable item.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Starfall Leyline.2481
Organized

[Silvoshipnos.2089]

I presume there's not much of a point in making this suggestion, but I would still like to get this out there.

 

Maybe the buff that Vision, Aurora and Coalescence apply could be detached from them and applied to enrichments and or infusions? Loads of infusions and enrichments have visual effects attached to them, I understand that these "buffs" are different to visual effects but we don't know how infusions work either, they may also be applying buffs to characters as far as we know. 

 

I understand that I know nothing about how the game internally works but I would hope that if a given effect, such as these buffs, is linked to a given item, such as these legendaries, it would be possible to transfer the effect to a different item. Yes, this would involve handing infusions or enrichments to the people who made this item, but that wouldn't be as unfair as just straight up giving people extra legendaries. It could be made as 3 infusions, each of them giving one stack of the effect, or 3 different enrichments, since you can only have one, each applying 1, 2 or 3 stacks of the buff.

 

I know that these items were designed with the intent of having these visual effects, which is exactly why I didn't do them when they came out, because I though they looked like rubbish, but they have now become a big convenience and I just hate how these light coloured fart clouds ruin the look of my characters.

 

I know that surely it's not gonna be as simple as that and I presume that someone at Anet has already though of these solutions but I kinda have to get this off my chest, I have an amazing looking Balrog with pink bubbles flying atop its head.

[Gehenna.3625]

On 7/10/2021 at 12:40 AM, Catmander Neko.5643 said:

Aurora, Vision, Coalescence 

We wanted to make a toggle for the three legendary PVE trinkets (Aurora, Vision and Coalescence). Unfortunately, these three items are setup differently from other items with visual effects and giving them a toggle is a complex problem. That probably sounds silly – it’s just a checkbox, right? A quick peek behind the curtain: these items are set up using a stacking buff (based on the number of equipped legendary trinkets) to determine which visual effect is added to the character model (i.e. the effect is actually added by the buff, not the item). The toggles in the Equipment panel control the visual effects on the items themselves–it’s not changing which item is slotted (i.e. it’s not switching to the slumbering version). This makes it much more difficult to convert them to the system where effects are on the item itself and can be toggled. Conflux and Transcendence previously got their effect from a buff not the item, but because they were a non-stacking buff we were able to move the effect to the item with a small amount of work and allow it to benefit from the toggle. 

Fixing this for Aurora, Vision, and Coalescence would require a rework of the visual effects for these items and how they’re applied (which would likely leave some players unhappy as it would change their appearance), or a significant engineering investment to build a one-off solution. That investment isn’t something we can commit to right now–our engineering team is focused on End of Dragons, Alliances, and DX11. We understand how important this is to all of you and that this isn’t the response you were hoping for, but in the spirit of transparency we wanted to let you know where things currently stand. 

 

Would it be an idea to give people who have at least two of these items also two generic looking legendary accessories? Then they can pick which ones they want to equip on any character and by requiring two of the items before you get 2 generic ones, you also make sure they put in the work for two items. From the armory perspective having 4 accessories is superfluous anyways. I mean it's not a perfect solution but I think it's a pretty close one.

[Linken.6345]

21 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Would it be an idea to give people who have at least two of these items also two generic looking legendary accessories? Then they can pick which ones they want to equip on any character and by requiring two of the items before you get 2 generic ones, you also make sure they put in the work for two items. From the armory perspective having 4 accessories is superfluous anyways. I mean it's not a perfect solution but I think it's a pretty close one.

Yes and it have been said many times before in this thread mate but it is worth repeating.

[OverRuler.9574]

Not happy about Aurora, Vision, Coalescence.
We as players don't care that making these legendary items were difficult, if it's so difficult then don't make so ridiculous skins in first place.
If toogle box for trinkets is too difficult or not worth investing time,  just give players simple legendary trinket replacements without aura! 
You call Guildwars2 ''fashionwars'' and then force all characters to walk around with floating purple balls and black potato across the screen. 

Edited August 28, 2021 by OverRuler.9574

[Will.9785]

This is probably mentioned already....

 

But add a vendor that gives you slumbering aurora and slumbering vision (together) if you have BOTH aurora and vision.  There's no harm in giving someone extra legendaries if they already have the max number of rings/accessories unlocked on the account.

 

Same with coalescence and conflux.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Will.9785

[Plok.5873]

Running around as an orrery is still one major annoyance to me. I hope the devs will not forget this issue.