New path to legendary armor?

[hash.8462]

10 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Hmm, legendary fractal set maybe? In the same vein as Ad Infinitum though.

 

Oh, maybe one for doing all the jumping puzzles, but imagine the tears there. 😀

Not everyone hate JP, I love them, the biggest problem is that are esily bypassable (in Retrospective Runaround you can just use skyscale, Chalice of Tears can be done with few Teleport to Friend, many others just need 1 Teleport to Friend or a mesmer portal).

Edited July 19, 2021 by hash.8462

[Infusion.7149]

Chalice of tears cannot be done with TP to friend, you need mesmer portals.

Also it is highly unlikely that any new PvE armor would be purely fractals (or core tyria bosses as suggested in this thread) as it would never ROI for Arenanet's development time. Fractals only require base game, which is free and people already do them so there doesn't need to be extra rewards to incentivize it further.

If an added PvE set is made it would most likely tie in EoD content, whether it is collections / adventures / JPs or otherwise similar to the precursor weapons, Aurora, and Vision. EoD is already known to have a new set of weapons and amulet as a draw for people to buy the expansion.

[Linken.6345]

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Nah. It's simply that if you knew anything beyond just surface level about those modes you would have known why your initial answer was such an absurd one.

 

Did you read the IF in that post you think is wrong?

it changes the whole sentance mate.

Edited July 19, 2021 by Linken.6345

[ArchonWing.9480]

18 minutes ago, hash.8462 said:

Not everyone hate JP, I love them, the biggest problem is that are esily bypassable (in Retrospective Runaround you can just use skyscale, Chalice of Tears can be done with few Teleport to Friend, many others just need 1 Teleport to Friend or a mesmer portal).

They could make new JPs that can't be bypassed like that.

 

I personally hate JPs but I think it'd be cool to reward people that are good at them.

[hash.8462]

20 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Chalice of tears cannot be done with TP to friend, you need mesmer portals.

You can, you need a few characters at the checkpoints and the players that need the JP just need 6 TP to Friend and move a bit nearer so that the TP don't go to the loading screen.

I've helped many guildmates with that one last week, you need only 5 minutes to finish it.

[Endilbiach.4132]

9 hours ago, Asum.4960 said:

Also, as some others said, no, "PvP" does not have two armors, and it's not an argument why therefor so should PvE. 

If you think Structured/competitive PvP is even remotely similar to roaming vast PvPvE WvW maps or doing giant zerg battles, you don't know what you are talking about. 

 

 

 

I'm looking at the Ardent Glorious Hero's set and the Glorious Hero's  set.  Admittedly I don't know the differences because I don't pvp but they're two bases that can both turn into legendaries.

[Endilbiach.4132]

Duplicate post, ignore this.

Edited July 19, 2021 by Endilbiach.4132
Forum mechanics wankery

[hash.8462]

33 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Also it is highly unlikely that any new PvE armor would be purely fractals (or core tyria bosses as suggested in this thread) as it would never ROI for Arenanet's development time. Fractals only require base game, which is free and people already do them so there doesn't need to be extra rewards to incentivize it further.

If open PvE armor will ever come true, I would like to see different collections for each piece, with different game parts for each one (ex: Fractal/Dungeons->Chest, JP->Boots, Bosses->Gloves, Dives/underwarterJP->Aquabreather, and so on).

Edited July 19, 2021 by hash.8462

[Endilbiach.4132]

1 hour ago, yann.1946 said:

Technically pvp and wvw count as distinct modes. 

 

And each mode (or at least wvw does, I won't comment of pvp conclusively since I don't do it) has 2 separate sets you can get.

[Asum.4960]

17 minutes ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

 

I'm looking at the Ardent Glorious Hero's set and the Glorious Hero's  set.  Admittedly I don't know the differences because I don't pvp but they're two bases that can both turn into legendaries.

While PvP has three different skin sets (Ardent Glorious, Glorious Hero and Mistforged Glorious Hero) and WvW two skins sets (Triumphant Hero and Mistforged Triumphant Hero) that can be upgraded to Legendary (since they were kind of hacked together as Legendary acquisition method with skins after the fact), they are all the same Legendary Armor/Recipe. 

 

They are not different ways to get the Armor per se, they all require the same Gifts.

 

See this for the 3 different ways, one per major game mode of PvE, PvP and WvW.

Edited July 19, 2021 by Asum.4960

[Endilbiach.4132]

12 minutes ago, Asum.4960 said:

While PvP has three different skin sets (Ardent Glorious, Glorious Hero and Mistforged Glorious Hero) and WvW two skins sets (Triumphant Hero and Mistforged Triumphant Hero) that can be upgraded to Legendary (since they were kind of hacked together as Legendary acquisition method with skins after the fact), they are all the same Legendary Armor/Recipe. 

 

They are not different ways to get the Armor per se, they all require the same Gifts.

 

See this for the 3 different ways, one per major game mode of PvE, PvP and WvW.

I will 100% cede this point.  You are absolutely right that they're the exact same recipes with different end products and now I understand what you were saying.

I will, however, not cede a point which is that the competitive game modes have 2 between them while pve (if you can call Raids pve and not exclusionist content) only have 1.

[Infusion.7149]

7 minutes ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

I will 100% cede this point.  You are absolutely right that they're the exact same recipes with different end products and now I understand what you were saying.

I will, however, not cede a point which is that the competitive game modes have 2 between them while pve (if you can call Raids pve and not exclusionist content) only have 1.

The legendary armor in PVP/WVW currently only add functionality. They do not have an added skin. Technically PVP/WVW only have one armor as the methodology to upgrade it is the same.
PVE is the only one with a skin. If someone has PVE armor right now after legendary armory there is zero reason to make a PVP/WVW legendary set.

In addition, as pointed out above multiple times the "raid armor" has fractals involved along with openworld collections.

Edited July 19, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Asum.4960]

16 minutes ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

I will 100% cede this point.  You are absolutely right that they're the exact same recipes with different end products and now I understand what you were saying.

I will, however, not cede a point which is that the competitive game modes have 2 between them while pve (if you can call Raids pve and not exclusionist content) only have 1.

The 3 major game modes of GW2 are PvE, sPvP and WvW, aka. Player versus Environment, structured Player versus Player, and Player versus Player versus Environment. 

 

Fighting competitively in an Arena with normalised stats (and different balance for that matter) is nothing alike to the roaming,  Zerg battles or siege warfare found in the large scale maps of WvW, which also shares the same gear and stats with PvE. 

 

In fact if we want to have this argument, I'd even say PvE and WvW are closer together than each is to sPvP, and since the WvW armor can pretty much exclusively be done by PvE'ing in WvW (capping camps and such), if anything PvE has 2 Legendary Armor sets, and straight up PvP one. 

 

So this path is not exactly useful for your argument.

Edited July 19, 2021 by Asum.4960

[Dante.1763]

2 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

The legendary armor in PVP/WVW currently only add functionality. They do not have an added skin. Technically PVP/WVW only have one armor as the methodology to upgrade it is the same.
PVE is the only one with a skin. If someone has PVE armor right now after legendary armory there is zero reason to make a PVP/WVW legendary set.

In addition, as pointed out above multiple times the "raid armor" has fractals involved along with openworld collections.

Alot of us who want a second pve armor set only want the functionality, we dont want a custom skin. I do like the Envoy skins, however i think those skins should remain exclusive to raids.

 

They could make a way to turn ascended armor into legendary armor and id be 100% okay with that, even if it cost the same as making Sunrise for each piece of armor. Do exactly like the wvw/pvp armor and make it some minor glow effects, i still would transmute over them.

[Sobx.1758]

32 minutes ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

I will 100% cede this point.  You are absolutely right that they're the exact same recipes with different end products and now I understand what you were saying.

I will, however, not cede a point which is that the competitive game modes have 2 between them while pve (if you can call Raids pve and not exclusionist content) only have 1.

Cool, so to make it the equivalent to those "two sets per more" that you're apparently looking for, you'd just need to take about 25% off the required LI for the second, no-visuals PVE set. Because that's more or less the main difference between those sets you keep talking about.

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Linken.6345]

21 minutes ago, Dante.1763 said:

Alot of us who want a second pve armor set only want the functionality, we dont want a custom skin. I do like the Envoy skins, however i think those skins should remain exclusive to raids.

 

They could make a way to turn ascended armor into legendary armor and id be 100% okay with that, even if it cost the same as making Sunrise for each piece of armor. Do exactly like the wvw/pvp armor and make it some minor glow effects, i still would transmute over them.

Thats exactly what people said about the spvp and wvw sets it dont need skins and look at it now.

 

Other people do want skins so what you are 100% okay with that dont help at all, it open up Anet to others that are not.

[Dante.1763]

Just now, Linken.6345 said:

Thats exactly what people said about the spvp and wvw sets it dont need skins and look at it now.

 

Other people do want skins so what you are 100% okay with that dont help at all, it open up Anet to others that are not.

That is why i said "alot of us" Not "All of us", i highly doubt if anet ever adds another way to obtain legendary armor that the majority of PVE players can obtain, that it will have a unique look to it, and yes i would be fine with that, and yes it would be a decision i would be glad with. Would some people be happy? no, of course not.

[Infusion.7149]

44 minutes ago, Dante.1763 said:

Alot of us who want a second pve armor set only want the functionality, we dont want a custom skin. I do like the Envoy skins, however i think those skins should remain exclusive to raids.

 

They could make a way to turn ascended armor into legendary armor and id be 100% okay with that, even if it cost the same as making Sunrise for each piece of armor. Do exactly like the wvw/pvp armor and make it some minor glow effects, i still would transmute over them.

Well according to the topic creator, 22 weeks is a "quite a long time" and even though WvW was in their own words "THE most approachable path, and that still limits you to a fairly strict set of parameters for quite a long time to earn yourself a suit of armor (22 weeks for the cheap one)."

What that means is they :
1. don't think 22 weeks is short enough ... when that is also what the timeframe is roughly for a second set of PvE armor if you do Wing1-4 and don't convert LD to LI ; legendary PvP armor has a similar timeframe as well
2. consider pipping a "strict set of a parameters" which is ludicrous to anyone who has WvWed at all


That's precisely why I don't think that whatever they are asking for is realistic. Same thing goes for hash's suggestion: Fractal/Dungeons->Chest, JP->Boots, Bosses->Gloves, Dives/underwarterJP->Aquabreather, and so on).

• Fractals? No ROI for Arenanet if that's the only requirement. There's already a backpiece (the only PVE legendary backpiece by the way) , daily clover trader, and it's one of the highest gold per hour places in the game.
• Dungeons? No longer in development cycle so it is near zero chance that collections are added requiring them.
• Openworld bosses? What is the reason for them to do this if people already do it for the legendary weapons , EOD will have legendary weapons so this is probably going to be the same situation. Couple this with the legendary amulet that is going to be attached to living story and openworld is already saturated with legendary rewards.
• DRMs? There's already rewards attached to them including deldrimor infusion, volcanic stormcaller boxes, and supply boxes.
• Strikes? They're 10 man instanced content originally conceived as a stepping stone for raids. There's runic cape , bear shaman armor,and ascended boxes as rewards already.
• Adventures/JPs? Unlikely to be the only requirement judging by past collections. Also factor in adventures are solo so you would not be able to get any help with it so the complaints by players would be massive unless it is bronze tier completion required.
  
  If it's going to be pseudo-openworld content I would expect the requirement to be something akin to Twisted Marionette/Dragonstorm or 50-80 man instanced versions of what we have now as world boss fights where composition and outright performance isn't as important as mechanics (see Serpent's Ire complaints). That's the major difference between instanced content and openworld content, mechanics vs comp plus DPS /boon coverage. It's clear the technology is being developed to scale instances even if there are some obvious hitches (i.e. empty platforms on Marionette). Of course you would need some sort of collection system, which means that people that think that WvW participation is a "strict set of parameters" are going to be in for a disappointment.
  
  In comparison , it would be far more advantageous for the game to implement a WvW legendary accessory with a slumbering variant than to implement openworld legendary armor. It would fix two outstanding issues: the first being a lack of ability to disable Vision/Aurora effects, the second being a lack of sinks for emblems now that you don't need more than two Confluxes. Many WvW players persevered and obtained help from friends or guildmates to get through Chalice of Tears and other PvE achievements that they had no intention of doing, yet openworld legendary armor is being suggested to tailor to openworld PvE players' wants (key point here , see every balance patch that drastically shifts the WvW meta vs berserker's + viper's + harrier's for nearly every PVE meta in addition to the inability to fit a WvW infusion and PvE infusion on the same gear) when exotics and ascended do fine.

Edited July 19, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Dante.1763]

1 minute ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Well according to the topic creator, 22 weeks is a "quite a long time" and even though WvW was in their own words "THE most approachable path, and that still limits you to a fairly strict set of parameters for quite a long time to earn yourself a suit of armor (22 weeks for the cheap one)."

What that means is they :
1. don't think 22 weeks is short enough ... when that is also what the timeframe is roughly for a second set of PvE armor if you do Wing1-4 and don't convert LD to LI ; legendary PvP armor has a similar timeframe as well
2. consider pipping a "strict set of a parameters" which is ludicrous to anyone who has WvWed at all


That's precisely why I don't think that whatever they are asking for is realistic. Same thing goes for hash's suggestion: Fractal/Dungeons->Chest, JP->Boots, Bosses->Gloves, Dives/underwarterJP->Aquabreather, and so on).

• Fractals? No ROI for Arenanet if that's the only requirement. There's already a backpiece (the only PVE legendary backpiece by the way) , daily clover trader, and it's one of the highest gold per hour places in the game.
• Dungeons? No longer in development cycle so it is near zero chance that collections are added requiring them.
• Openworld bosses? What is the reason for them to do this if people already do it for the legendary weapons , EOD will have legendary weapons so this is probably going to be the same situation. Couple this with the legendary amulet that is going to be attached to living story and openworld is already saturated with legendary rewards.
• DRMs? There's already rewards attached to them including deldrimor infusion and supply boxes.
• Strikes? They're 10 man instanced content originally conceived as a stepping stone for raids. There's runic cape , bear shaman armor, and ascended boxes as rewards already.
• Adventures/JPs? Unlikely to be the only requirement judging by past collections. Also factor in adventures are solo so you would not be able to get any help with it so the complaints by players would be massive unless it is bronze tier completion required.
  
  If it's going to be pseudo-openworld content I would expect the requirement to be something akin to Twisted Marionette/Dragonstorm or 50-80 man instanced versions of what we have now as world boss fights where composition isn't as important as mechanics (see Serpent's Ire complaints). That's the major difference between instanced content and openworld content, mechanics vs comp plus DPS /boon coverage. It's clear the technology is being developed to scale instances even if there are some obvious hitches (i.e. empty platforms on Marionette). Of course you would need some sort of collection system, which means that people that think that WvW participation is a "strict set of parameters" are going to be in for a disappointment.

Honestly the most realistic version and easiest to implement would be what i said, use the ascended armor and give it a recipe on the levels of legendary weapons for cost. Boom, done. At most make the skin glowey ish similiar to wvw/pvp armor, but otherwise nothing would need to be done, they wouldnt even have to do that to get me to shut up about legendary armor, it could be the exact same ascended skin with just the legendary functionality added.

 

in vein to another topic one of the big sellers for the new expansion imo would be to introduce was a legendary armor set that the majority of pve players could obtain, without a raid requirement, while still being costly and challenging.

 

who knows though. With raids, strike missions, and DRM going the way of dungeons im curious to see what the future will hold.

[Infusion.7149]

6 minutes ago, Dante.1763 said:

Honestly the most realistic version and easiest to implement would be what i said, use the ascended armor and give it a recipe on the levels of legendary weapons for cost. Boom, done. At most make the skin glowey ish similiar to wvw/pvp armor, but otherwise nothing would need to be done, they wouldnt even have to do that to get me to shut up about legendary armor, it could be the exact same ascended skin with just the legendary functionality added.

 

in vein to another topic one of the big sellers for the new expansion imo would be to introduce was a legendary armor set that the majority of pve players could obtain, without a raid requirement, while still being costly and challenging.

 

who knows though. With raids, strike missions, and DRM going the way of dungeons im curious to see what the future will hold.

Mistforged PVP/WVW armor is from 100 PVP rank and 500 WvW rank (used to be 2K before they nerfed it) it has nothing to do with it being legendary armor.

[Dante.1763]

2 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Mistforged PVP/WVW armor is from 100 PVP rank and 500 WvW rank (used to be 2K before they nerfed it) it has nothing to do with it being legendary armor.

Huh, i wasnt aware they had reduced its rank, shame im on Tarnished Coast i hate doing wvw on this server, yes i do it, but im only rank 366(after 8 almost 9 years.). 😕

 

Im very sure anet can come up with a balanced approach to a open world pve armor set, much like they did gen 2 weapons.

[Endilbiach.4132]

46 minutes ago, Dante.1763 said:

Huh, i wasnt aware they had reduced its rank, shame im on Tarnished Coast i hate doing wvw on this server, yes i do it, but im only rank 366(after 8 almost 9 years.). 😕

 

Im very sure anet can come up with a balanced approach to a open world pve armor set, much like they did gen 2 weapons.

 

Oh, you're high enough level to make Warbringer, awesome.  Easiest legendary back piece imo.

 

I'm still workin to that level.

[rrusse.7058]

1 hour ago, Dante.1763 said:

Huh, i wasnt aware they had reduced its rank, shame im on Tarnished Coast i hate doing wvw on this server

No don’t give up! I’m TC too! I also play on OCE times so I’m part of the night crew. We try our best to keep stuff but it depends on the matchup and who is tagged up!

 

It’s not so bad though. I’ve already gotten about 200 tickets and gained 8 ranks this week and I’m having a good time. We might be losing but eh. You get tickets for just about everything.

 

On the topic of the Legendary Armory though, would

people say it’s been a positive thing for the game? Personally I believe it is and has added more longevity to the game as well as motivation for very casual players to work on a long term goal.

 

 

[Dante.1763]

3 minutes ago, rrusse.7058 said:

No don’t give up! I’m TC too! I also play on OCE times so I’m part of the night crew. We try our best to keep stuff but it depends on the matchup and who is tagged up!

 

It’s not so bad though. I’ve already gotten about 200 tickets and gained 8 ranks this week and I’m having a good time. We might be losing but eh. You get tickets for just about everything.

 

On the topic of the Legendary Armory though, would

people say it’s been a positive thing for the game? Personally I believe it is and has added more longevity to the game as well as motivation for very casual players to work on a long term goal.

 

 

Eh..i have 100 tickets to my name and i have so much stuff to do in open world pve to catchup that wvw/pvp achievments and stuff are at the back of my mind.

 

I like the legendary armor, itll be better when i make the legendary trinkets and rings i can make.

[Firebeard.1746]

2 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Well according to the topic creator, 22 weeks is a "quite a long time" and even though WvW was in their own words "THE most approachable path, and that still limits you to a fairly strict set of parameters for quite a long time to earn yourself a suit of armor (22 weeks for the cheap one)."

unless the OP posted something later, they weren't talking about the absolute minimum timespan to earn, they're talking about total time invested (they literally said ALOT of WvW, not that 22 weeks is too long). I'm sure few people max tickets every week, even if they want to.

I'm absolutely certain that even though WvW is the easiest in terms of effort, it's the worst in terms of total time spent.

And this is something you do alot, deflecting towards minimum timespan instead of total time to earn. It's not helpful and I know you're doing it on purpose.

Edited July 19, 2021 by Firebeard.1746