New path to legendary armor?

[Flapjackson.1596]

10 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

OK that's fair, but we are talking about armor in this thread here. 

 

 ... and yes, I think we have LOTS of evidence to suggest Anet has fouled up delivering what GW2 player base wants after this many years. One of those evidence would be just how few people engage content to obtain Leg. armor. So few in fact that they couldn't justify introducing even ONE new raid in the last two+ years now?

 

 

Obtena you seem to repeatedly make the point that Anet should direct any reward players want towards content they already play, and somehow have consistently refused to entertain the solution of Anet making other content more appealing to players. Yes, adding a reward (ex. legendary armor) to barebones Open World would make it more accessible to the average player, but so would making the content (ex. Raids) more accessible to the player.

 

Anet almost systematically set up raids to fail with a lack of a proper learning curve of game mechanics, a single difficulty setting peppered with some CMs, and little to no support on bug fixes, rewards, and new wings. Improving gamemodes to increase player interest in them is a perfectly valid solution to making these rewards more accessible. 

[Obtena.7952]

29 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

 

I don't disagree with you.  I just think legendary acquisition works on fairly sound principles inferred by its mechanics. And legendaries in general seemed popular enough for me to think a lot of people enjoyed doing it. I'm not saying it's perfect, of course.

 

I'm only against thinking that someone knows what the community at large thinks based on online postings, as they are not the base at all, vocal minority and all.

 

That's just my point of view; honestly I don't run into much negativity in-game besides when stuff goes really wrong, if from a pve point of view. But even in so-called wvw toxic land, a lot of people are still having fun. That suggests to me that they do know what players want.... sometimes and better than you or me.

 

Edit: And what I have never seen, is anyone being like "If only I had legendary armor, we could clear this more easily!"

True, I've never seen that either, because getting Leg. Armor isn't about performance, it's about convenience. I have seen people say "Oh crud, if I had Leg. Armor, I wouldn't have to Mystic Forge this Ascended set with expensive-to-make insignias"

 

For me, the discussion here isn't about 'needing' leg. armor. NO one 'needs' it. To me, the discussion is about if Legendary asset work Anet does reflect the value legendary assets offers to players. I don't think it does. I think that because you can see things Anet does for Legendary gear with game development ... and we also have some indicators (lack of success of raids for example) of how few people are uptaking leg. Armor. It's a miss. 

Edited July 20, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Astralporing.1957]

2 minutes ago, Flapjackson.1596 said:

Obtena you seem to repeatedly make the point that Anet should direct any reward players want towards content they already play, and somehow have consistently refused to entertain the solution of Anet making other content more appealing to players. Yes, adding a reward (ex. legendary armor) to barebones Open World would make it more accessible to the average player, but so would making the content (ex. Raids) more accessible to the player.

You must have not read any threads about raid difficulty. Obtena frequents those as well.

 

Notice, that making Raids themselves more accessible would take away content from raiders. So, it's probably the least sensible idea. Making easier version of raids (easy mode) also seem to be met with massive protests from some vocal members of raid community (whether they represent the whole community or not, i can't really say).

 

Still, in case of easy mode and legendary armor, there's a choice to be made. We can make the raid armor also accessible through it, we can create a different skin for easy mode legendary, or we can make easy mode without legendary access.

 

In first case, Raid players are likely to complain. In second case, if we're already making a completely new set, why not give it a different acquisition method?.And, of course, in the third case we're back to the argument we're already debating.

 

2 minutes ago, Flapjackson.1596 said:

Anet almost systematically set up raids to fail with a lack of a proper learning curve of game mechanics, a single difficulty setting peppered with some CMs, and little to no support on bug fixes, rewards, and new wings. Improving gamemodes to increase player interest in them is a perfectly valid solution to making these rewards more accessible. 

Let's say it is a bit more complicated than that. Correction - way more complicated than that. Although debating it would end up causing a massive derail, because it is worthy a huge thread in itself. So, perhaps not a good idea to do it here.

[Dante.1763]

9 minutes ago, Flapjackson.1596 said:

Obtena you seem to repeatedly make the point that Anet should direct any reward players want towards content they already play, and somehow have consistently refused to entertain the solution of Anet making other content more appealing to players. Yes, adding a reward (ex. legendary armor) to barebones Open World would make it more accessible to the average player, but so would making the content (ex. Raids) more accessible to the player.

 

Anet almost systematically set up raids to fail with a lack of a proper learning curve of game mechanics, a single difficulty setting peppered with some CMs, and little to no support on bug fixes, rewards, and new wings. Improving gamemodes to increase player interest in them is a perfectly valid solution to making these rewards more accessible. 

You arent wrong on that last bit, but ALOT, and i mean ALOT of raid players when they first got introduced so greatly opposed any difficulty settings i dont think anet ever considered that as a way to go, and when they may it was already to late. They couldnt make raids fast enough to keep those same players in the game and in the end alot of em left, and raids got dropped entirely as further content.

 

Had raids had a difficulty scale similar to fractals i wonder if things would be different. Who knows at this point.

[ArchonWing.9480]

3 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

True, I've never seen that either, because getting Leg. Armor isn't about performance, it's about convenience. I have seen people say "Oh crud, if I had Leg. Armor, I wouldn't have to Mystic Forge this Ascended set with expensive-to-make insignias"

 

For me, the discussion here isn't about 'needing' leg. armor. NO one 'needs' it. To me, the discussion is about if Legendary asset work Anet does reflect the value legendary assets offers to players. I don't think it does. I think that because you can see things Anet continues to support with game development ... and we also have some indicators (lack of success of raids for example) of how few people are uptaking leg. Armor. 

 

I really wish people would understand your point of view better.  When people say I NEED this thing or some variant of their game being ruined because of the lack, the hyperbole just makes me roll my eyes.

 

I do think there needs to be other ways for people to show their dedication that doesn't involve handing it over.

Edited July 20, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Obtena.7952]

21 minutes ago, Flapjackson.1596 said:

Obtena you seem to repeatedly make the point that Anet should direct any reward players want towards content they already play, and somehow have consistently refused to entertain the solution of Anet making other content more appealing to players.

I've what? No, you are mistaken. I've NEVER refused to entertain the solution of Anet making other content more appealing to players. You don't seem to be aware of my history as you claim to be. 

[Astralporing.1957]

4 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

 

I really wish people would understand your point of view better.  When people say I NEED this thing or some variant of their game being ruined because of the lack, the hyperbole just makes me roll my eyes.

It's not really hyperbole. The word "need" can represent not only requirement, but also desire for something. When someone says "i need a drink" it doesn't mean they have to have a drink or something bad happens. It means they want a drink.

Lot of people are just using it in the second meaning, and then other people try to shut them down using cheap shot arguments (usually knowing full well in what meaning the word was originally used).

[Tails.9372]

1 hour ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

How do you know what these things are?

 

What what is? That A-Net wants to make decisions based on player feedback? Because they said so. That players want alternative / more accessible ways to get legendary armor in PvE? I already adressed this in the post you quoted. That A-Net has an interest to keep player engagement high? Because they advertise the multiplayer aspect of the game.

 

All of your "but how do you know" questions just look like attempts to deflect. Sure, "I don't know" that A-Net actually wants to keep player engagement high but asuming anything to the contray would be so nonsensical that the notion isn't even worth considering.

 

 

1 hour ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

As for my point? Well, you sorta quoted like one sentence out of context  from me initially, so there wasn't really much to discuss there.

 

Except not quoting unrelated stuff doesn't change the meaning of what I originally replied to. You tried to make some points along the way but never actually bothered to defend them after I addressed them. It's not that there wasn't anything to discuss but that based on your replies it looks more like you just don't care about discussing the point you yourself brought up which begs the question: why even make these half-hearted replies at all?

 

 

1 hour ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

I mean, are you implying that Anet doesn't know what their player base wants after so many years?

 

It's not that they didn't know but more like that they didn't really care which is something they recently criticised themselves for.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Tails.9372

[ArchonWing.9480]

23 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

 

What what is? That A-Net wants to make decisions based on player feedback? Because they said so. That players want alternative / more accessible ways to get legendary armor in PvE? I already adressed this in the post you quoted. That A-Net has an interest to keep player engagement high? Because they advertise the multiplayer aspect of the game.

 

Yea, but that doesn't mean that players shouldn't be reasonable in their wants.

 

How does feedback work when it's incoherent?

 

Quote

 

All of your "but how do you know" questions just look like attempts to deflect. Sure, "I don't know" that A-Net actually wants to keep player engagement high but asuming anything to the contray would be so nonsensical that the notion isn't even worth considering.

 

 

 

Except not quoting unrelated stuff doesn't change the meaning of what I originally replied to. You tried to make some points along the way but never actually bothered to defend them after I addressed them. It's not that there wasn't anything to discuss but that based on your replies it looks more like you just don't care about discussing the point you yourself brought up which begs the question: why even make these half-hearted replies at all?

 

 

 

I only put as much effort as was put to me. You chose to argue a fragment of my post, so don't be surprised when there's not much of a point to make.

 

Edited July 20, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Sobx.1758]

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

None. The fact that Anet is missing out because they aren't engaging all players with legendary assets has nothing to do with how I think legendaries should be obtained.

 

I think I've already been clear in the thread that I don't care about leg. armor because I'm already committed to Ascended armors ... BUT, I can see why Anet should care about how many players are engaged with assets they develop and why other players do care about options to interact with those those assets in the game.

But you were already talking about other people there: "I really see little reason to change any of how legendaries are obtained ... they just aren't that big a deal to most people and have little impact on how most people play the game anyways." and still said you don't see the reason for that change.

 

Quote

See, that's the difference between me and you. Even though I don't think we should have all these extra ways because Leg. armor just isn't that big a deal to most people, I can appreciate why what I think it's not the determining factor in how the game is implemented or what is best for the game, Anet or its players. In otherwords, I can actually support a suggestion that differs from my personal opinion from an objective POV.

Despite your weird personal remarks, I can and did support ideas that go against my wants and needs, but first they need to make sense. Claiming that increasing or putting new rewards behind content that people already spam daily anyways somehow increases the replayability or brings more value to that content just... doesn't.

Anyways, if you think those two posts aren't contradictory to each other because you totally were talking just about yourself instead of considering the community and the game (which you clearly did consider in that post from a week ago), then that's all I need to hear, hf with that fake news appraoch 😄  

 

Edited July 20, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Flapjackson.1596]

30 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I've what? No, you are mistaken. I've NEVER refused to entertain the solution of Anet making other content more appealing to players. You don't seem to be aware of my history as you claim to be. 

Well you've posted numerous times in this thread that Anet should move a reward out of unpopular modes to modes players "want" to play, and have yet to discuss the obvious alternative of making the unpopular mode more popular. Perhaps you haven't refused to do so, but speaking so authoritatively on a solution should at least address why the other big option is not reasonable.

 

42 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Notice, that making Raids themselves more accessible would take away content from raiders. So, it's probably the least sensible idea. Making easier version of raids (easy mode) also seem to be met with massive protests from some vocal members of raid community (whether they represent the whole community or not, i can't really say).

 

Nonsensical protest is not a big concern to me when improving the mode is much more of a priority. Making easier versions of raids does absolutely nothing to the tier of difficulty current raiders face, nor would it affect a potential harder version for hardcore raiders. Adding some granularity would only improve the mode. Rewards obviously wouldn't be 1 to 1 across modes, so the argument that easier modes take anything away from harder modes is unreasonable.

[Astralporing.1957]

10 minutes ago, Flapjackson.1596 said:

Nonsensical protest is not a big concern to me when improving the mode is much more of a priority. Making easier versions of raids does absolutely nothing to the tier of difficulty current raiders face, nor would it affect a potential harder version for hardcore raiders. Adding some granularity would only improve the mode. Rewards obviously wouldn't be 1 to 1 across modes, so the argument that easier modes take anything away from harder modes is unreasonable.

Well, in that case it has been brought up numerous times already, ever since the raids were first mentioned. So, even before first raid appeared. The first dev responses (so, the only ones that actually count) mentioned that they did not plan on having multiple difficulties initially, and (at the moment they were responding) did not plan on addin one either. The later responses were that the population of raids is so low it doesn't justify putting any more resources in it anymore.

 

Basically, they overestimated the draw of that mode towards the whole PvE community, and then missed the chance to do something about it when they still could. And now there's not enough players in that content for them to care anymore.

 

Frankly, at this point i really doubt Anet is going to try to introduce new things like that to raids in order to breathe new life in them - not when raiders themselves seem dead set against it. Although it's not impossible that at some point, when the raider population will dip even further, they might consider just a general nerf to bosses in order for the content to be even borderline alive again. Or, they might decide to simply treat them the same way they treated dungeons, so just pretend they forgot about them, letting them just die on the vine.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Infusion.7149]

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

True, I've never seen that either, because getting Leg. Armor isn't about performance, it's about convenience. I have seen people say "Oh crud, if I had Leg. Armor, I wouldn't have to Mystic Forge this Ascended set with expensive-to-make insignias"

 

For me, the discussion here isn't about 'needing' leg. armor. NO one 'needs' it. To me, the discussion is about if Legendary asset work Anet does reflect the value legendary assets offers to players. I don't think it does. I think that because you can see things Anet does for Legendary gear with game development ... and we also have some indicators (lack of success of raids for example) of how few people are uptaking leg. Armor. It's a miss. 

If you WvW and want to use 18 WvW stat infusions that is way more of a need than any PvE player will ever have (including raiders). By definition a 18% stat bonus when hitting any structure is a huge performance increase. To infuse backpieces is 500 fractal relics for gift of ascension and infusing rings is also problematic due to the drop rate on the materials which is why mist band comes infused. If you had to infuse more than one character's backpieces then you are going to be looking at thousands of relics. Couple that with the fact that WvW makes maybe a third of the ingame income of typical PvE.

Also given the amount of balance patches that make builds and gear obsolete for WvW far more often than PvE it is of more utility to have legendary armor for WvW than for PvE where most toughness sets are omitted completely. We've had marauder, berserker's (some reapers, spellbreakers, heralds), grieving (scourge hybrids), dire (condi roamers on firebrands and troll type thief builds mainly), carrion (mostly burn DH or other such builds that can cap conditions other ways), minstrel's (firebrand/scrapper/chrono/tempest/spellbreaker), trailblazer's (roamers mainly), celestial (most notably on scourges and core guard), nomad's , soldier's mixed with other sets, etc. just for WVW. In core days people would run soldier's armor with berserker's everything else due to lack of marauder stats.

You're talking about maybe 5 sets total across all classes for PvE: Berserker's, Viper, Diviner's , Harrier if you heal, Minstrel only if you tank. Up until scourge buffs recently, plaguedoctor was a niche set but now scourge is basically OP so plaguedoctor does ~27K instead of ~22K and full viper's +lich rune does ~37K instead of ~28K. Heal scourge is probably the only exception actually. Maybe a few years ago you could say you saw something like magi heal tempest but firstly that's not a common build and nowadays boons are considered more important than healing so people would still use harrier's. Note that for PVE openworld, healing sets are superfluous for the most part.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Astralporing.1957]

6 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

You're talking about maybe 5 sets total across all classes for PvE: Berserker's, Viper, Diviner's , Harrier if you heal, Minstrel only if you tank. Up until scourge buffs recently, plaguedoctor was a niche set but now scourge is basically OP so plageudoctor does ~27K instead of ~22K and full viper's +lich rune does ~37K instead of ~28K. Heal scourge is probably the only exception actually. Maybe a few years ago you could say you saw something like magi heal tempest but firstly that's not a common build and nowadays boons are considered more important than healing so people would still use harrier's.

There's also:

- Assassin that is often used on single pieces of gear in order to minmax crit chance on some builds,

- Sinister that does minmaxing of condi duration vs damage on some Condi builds,

- Magi is still used, again, mainly for minmaxing when you already have desired boon duration threshold

- Grieving exists on hybrid weaver dps at least (and, as i see, as an option for condi Reaper)

- Heal scourge you mentioned (currently with Marshall and Shaman, but it wasn't always so)

- there are also some less common cases like COndi Druid (with Seraphs)

- and of course Runes and Sigils keep changing all the time as well.

 

So, a bit more than you thought

[Flapjackson.1596]

25 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Well, in that case it has been brought up numerous times already, ever since the raids were first mentioned. So, even before first raid appeared. The first dev responses (so, the only ones that actually count) mentioned that they did not plan on having multiple difficulties initially, and (at the moment they were responding) did not plan on addin one either. The later responses were that the population of raids is so low it doesn't justify putting any more resources in it anymore.

 

Basically, they overestimated the draw of that mode towards the whole PvE community, and then missed the chance to do something about it when they still could. And now there's not enough players in that content for them to care anymore.

 

Frankly, at this point i really doubt Anet is going to try to introduce new things like that to raids in order to breathe new life in them - not when raiders themselves seem dead set against it. Although it's not impossible that at some point, when the raider population will dip even further, they might consider just a general nerf to bosses in order for the content to be even borderline alive again. Or, they might decide to simply treat them the same way they treated dungeons, so just pretend they forgot about them, letting them just die on the vine.

I agree that Anet bungled the release of raids, underestimated how to make the mode have actual broad appeal, and then shrugged their shoulders now that most players gave up on the mode. I just see that as a reason Anet should right past wrongs. And again, I do not agree that raiders are dead set against improvements. I don’t know where you’re drawing that from, or why even mention unreasonable protestation as relevant.

[Astralporing.1957]

3 minutes ago, Flapjackson.1596 said:

I agree that Anet bungled the release of raids, underestimated how to make the mode have actual broad appeal, and then shrugged their shoulders now that most players gave up on the mode. I just see that as a reason Anet should right past wrongs. And again, I do not agree that raiders are dead set against improvements. I don’t know where you’re drawing that from, or why even mention unreasonable protestation as relevant.

Not improvements per se, but any improvements that they'd see as opening raids to a wider audience. And you can see that by the forum reactions. And i don't mean the often very, very loud protests of the very few, but by the fact that pretty much the rest of the raider community lets those loud few protesters speak for them.

[Infusion.7149]

14 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

There's also:

- Assassin that is often used on single pieces of gear in order to minmax crit chance on some builds,

- Sinister that does minmaxing of condi duration vs damage on some Condi builds,

- Magi is still used, again, mainly for minmaxing when you already have desired boon duration threshold

- Grieving exists on hybrid weaver dps at least (and, as i see, as an option for condi Reaper)

- Heal scourge you mentioned (currently with Marshall and Shaman, but it wasn't always so)

- there are also some less common cases like COndi Druid (with Seraphs)

- and of course Runes and Sigils keep changing all the time as well.

 

So, a bit more than you thought

Which has nothing to do with the topic or what I wrote since you're talking about minmaxing , that would only apply to raiding and fractals and not for openworld.

Also anyone using grieving weaver is setting themselves up for disappointment, up until this patch it had less damage than power weaver or condi weaver. In real scenarios condi scourge does more damage  , isn't range limited, and is way less complex to play.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[MithranArkanere.8957]

There's many materials that desperately need a heavy sink like Dark Energy and Congealed Putrescences.  

Alongside other varied materials, they could be used to produce the gifts to make  'skinless' legendary gear out of crafted ascended, that would not have unique skins, just the swap ability.    

 

Add considerable spirit shard, karma and map currency costs, materials from bonus map rewards tracks, and of course the Gift of Exploration, and it would be a decent alternative for 'dedicated' PvE players who enjoy exploration, but are not into instanced or competitive content. 

 

To slow it down a bit, The ones used for this could be Wupwup ascended gear, since ascended can be reforged to have other stats, but you need to charge quartz daily to do it for Celestial ascended weapons and armor. 

 

 

[Astralporing.1957]

Just now, Infusion.7149 said:

Which has nothing to do with the topic or what I wrote since you're talking about minmaxing , that would only apply to raiding and fractals and not for openworld.

You were the one that mentioned absence of toughness, which is basically a feature of endgame/high difficulty tier content. If you're talking about OW, the selection of stats is even bigger, because OW players tend to experiment with a lot of builds. And, yes, often do use survival builds, so toughness is very much an option.

[Infusion.7149]

4 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

You were the one that mentioned absence of toughness, which is basically a feature of endgame/high difficulty tier content. If you're talking about OW, the selection of stats is even bigger, because OW players tend to experiment with a lot of builds. And, yes, often do use survival builds, so toughness is very much an option.

Toughness isn't quite viable unless you run trailblazer basically (dire in the case of one condi FB build with burn duration from runes/sigils), so one set. You could run karka potion and have more toughness if that's the point. All power builds have to give up a lot, as the only real power sets with toughness are cavalier, commanders' (no ferocity), and knight's. Crusader is rather meme and so is celestial and giver's or vigilant (never even heard of anyone using this).

Unless people are buying a lot of equipment templates they're probably going to be using one power DPS template, one condi DPS template , and one support.

 

Edited July 20, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Flapjackson.1596]

13 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Not improvements per se, but any improvements that they'd see as opening raids to a wider audience. And you can see that by the forum reactions. And i don't mean the often very, very loud protests of the very few, but by the fact that pretty much the rest of the raider community lets those loud few protesters speak for them.

Or the vast majority of players don’t engage with the forums at all. I can say the perspective of the forums as a place for serious discussion is not a popular one. Regardless, the arguments of these angry very few lacks the basis to give it any oxygen in a “solution-focused” discussion. I think you and I generally agree here on what would help at least.

[Tails.9372]

1 hour ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Yea, but that doesn't mean that players shouldn't be reasonable in their wants.

 

Again the "reasonability" of a request is nothing that players should concern themselves with as that's ultimately for the devs to decide.

 

A-Net is a company and wants to sell a product so offering something that the players want to hook them in is in their best interest. Before PoF I've seen people saying that that asking for mounts is "unreasonable" because "GW2 is not that type of game", the devs obviously had a different opinion.

 

The worst thing that can happen if the devs think that a request is too outlandish is that they ignore it but afaik the devs never gave out some guidelines on which requests are to be viewed "realistic" and which aren't and there is nothing about the notion of another more accesible set of legendary PvE armor that strikes me as particularly "unrealistic".

 

 

1 hour ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

How does feedback work when it's incoherent?

 

Feedback from a larger audience is always "incoherent" for obvious reasons but it gives them a direction and some other key informations which can then be used to implement the thing in question so that it promotes whatever they want to promote.

 

 

1 hour ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

I only put as much effort as was put to me.

 

Not really, if what you said were true and you also only addressed the parts of my posts you took issue with then I wouldn't have said anything. But me not addressing your take on "the manifesto" does not change the meaning of the part from you I quoteed nor is it relevant to anything else I bought up. The same can't be said for your replies where some of the things you said doesn't really make sense if you put them in context of what you were replying to.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Tails.9372

[ArchonWing.9480]

25 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

 

Again the "reasonability" of a request is nothing that players should concern themselves with as that's ultimately for the devs to decide.

 

A-Net is a company and wants to sell a product so offering something that the players want to hook them in is in their best interest. Before PoF I've seen people saying that that asking for mounts is "unreasonable" because "GW2 is not that type of game", the devs obviously had a different opinion.

 

The worst thing that can happen if the devs think that a request is too outlandish is that they ignore it but afaik the devs never gave out some guidelines on which requests are to be viewed "realistic" and which aren't and there is nothing about the notion of another more accesible set of legendary PvE armor that strikes me as particularly "unrealistic".

 

 

 

Feedback from a larger audience is always "incoherent" for obvious reasons but it gives them a direction and some other key informations which can then be used to implement the thing in question so that it promotes whatever they want to promote.

 

 

 

Not really, if what you said were true and you also only addressed the parts of my posts you took issue with then I wouldn't have said anything. But me not addressing your take on "the manifesto" does not change the meaning of the part from you I quoteed nor is it relevant to anything else I bought up. The same can't be said for your replies where some of the things you said doesn't really make sense if you put them in context of what you were replying to.

 

Wat.

 

You say that is nothing players should concern themselves with, but I can't say I agree to that. They are changes that could affect the game I play, so I would certainly oppose unreasonable changes.

 

Mounts being unreasonable? That's a fairly laughable argument based on nothing rational, so poor example there. Did the people that wanted a mount free game have any reason to it? And that's why they were ignored.

 

 

As for feedback always being incoherent, that's not always true either. People are able to express themselves more clearly and logically to get better results. Anet isn't psychic you know, and figuring out incoherent rambling is hard.

 

[Obtena.7952]

3 hours ago, Flapjackson.1596 said:

Well you've posted numerous times in this thread that Anet should move a reward out of unpopular modes to modes players "want" to play, and have yet to discuss the obvious alternative of making the unpopular mode more popular. Perhaps you haven't refused to do so, but speaking so authoritatively on a solution should at least address why the other big option is not reasonable.

No, I didn't say Anet should move rewards OUT of unpopular modes in this thread; I certainly don't believe the current paths to Leg. armor need to be removed or changed. We are talking about adding paths and my point is that Anet is missing an opportunity to involve more players in getting legendary armor with the current paths available.  

Edited July 21, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Obtena.7952]

3 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

If you WvW and want to use 18 WvW stat infusions that is way more of a need than any PvE player will ever have (including raiders). By definition a 18% stat bonus when hitting any structure is a huge performance increase. To infuse backpieces is 500 fractal relics for gift of ascension and infusing rings is also problematic due to the drop rate on the materials which is why mist band comes infused. If you had to infuse more than one character's backpieces then you are going to be looking at thousands of relics. Couple that with the fact that WvW makes maybe a third of the ingame income of typical PvE.

Also given the amount of balance patches that make builds and gear obsolete for WvW far more often than PvE it is of more utility to have legendary armor for WvW than for PvE where most toughness sets are omitted completely. We've had marauder, berserker's (some reapers, spellbreakers, heralds), grieving (scourge hybrids), dire (condi roamers on firebrands and troll type thief builds mainly), carrion (mostly burn DH or other such builds that can cap conditions other ways), minstrel's (firebrand/scrapper/chrono/tempest/spellbreaker), trailblazer's (roamers mainly), celestial (most notably on scourges and core guard), nomad's , soldier's mixed with other sets, etc. just for WVW. In core days people would run soldier's armor with berserker's everything else due to lack of marauder stats.

You're talking about maybe 5 sets total across all classes for PvE: Berserker's, Viper, Diviner's , Harrier if you heal, Minstrel only if you tank. Up until scourge buffs recently, plaguedoctor was a niche set but now scourge is basically OP so plaguedoctor does ~27K instead of ~22K and full viper's +lich rune does ~37K instead of ~28K. Heal scourge is probably the only exception actually. Maybe a few years ago you could say you saw something like magi heal tempest but firstly that's not a common build and nowadays boons are considered more important than healing so people would still use harrier's. Note that for PVE openworld, healing sets are superfluous for the most part.

OK ... I'm not sure if you are agreeing with what I said or not. Again, my point in the post you quoted was that leg. armor is a matter of convenience, because it is obviously more convenient to have a single set of armor a player can adjust how they see fit than multiples of Ascended armor sets with fixed stats. I THINK you are saying the same thing. 

 

 

Edited July 21, 2021 by Obtena.7952