New path to legendary armor?

[Fuchslein.8639]

If someone grinds me a Chak Infu, I make the Legy armor for him :D.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Fuchslein.8639

[Infusion.7149]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

And Dhuum CM has been done in greens. That you can do something doesn't mean you should, or want to.

You being able to do somthing in more difficult way does not mean you should not care about making it easier on you. And similarily, the usefulness of QoL to you is judged by you, not others.

 

 

Nobody needs it. Neither casuals, nor raiders. People go for legendary gear for multitude of reasons (some, but not all of them being QoL features), but none of those are necessary. Which is not a reason to not have or want them

 

 

So can players that raid. In fact, i remember being reminded over and over again that you don't need ascended for raiding. And if you don't need ascended, you definitely don't need legendaries either.

 

Well, in the sentence i commented on several times already you clearly said that those that do not have friends/are not in a guild that would enable raiding for them should not play MMOs but rather a solo game. Which means you equated playing with non-raiding friends/in a non-raiding guild to playing solo. As if those people didn't even exist, or weren't worth considering.

 

 

There are very significant differences between shallow requirements and having to dive deeply into the content. I. E if all the raid requirement that was necessary would be the collections, but LIs themselves could be replaced (or bought) with something from outside raids, many of the complains would disappear.

 

There's a world of difference between a relatively short visit into a content you don't like, and having to spend massive amount of time there.

 

The problem with WvW is not that it's difficult. It doesn't lie in time required either. It lies with the fact that this time would eat away at your PvE activity. If you can play, for example, 2-3 hours per day, it means you would be spending in WvW all your playing time, not having any time left for seeing the content you actually prefer. For months.

 

22 weeks spent playing OW/Ls is not a problem for me, nor would i consider it a "too long" time. 22 weeks playing almost exclusively WvW however would be a massive problem and way too much time required. For me it would be equivalent of dropping GW2 and playing a completely different game (one that i am not even interested in) for half a year.

I mean, seriously, would any dedicated raider decide to drop raids and go play exclusively candy Crush for half a year? Would they even consider it a reasonable suggestion at all? I honestly doubt they would.

 

PvP/WvW players do it all the time to get Aurora /Vision/legendary weapons among other things that are way more QoL such as Skyscale, Griffons, etc in addition to more aesthetic items such as Banner of the Dauntless Commander or weapon collections such as Heroic Dragonsblood or Dragon Slayer weapons.

 

Raiders need to do openworld metas and collections to get so-called "raid armor". Mentioned many times by other players, it's not a raid armor it is a PvE armor because fractals and openworld are involved. Gift of Dedication is all openworld. Not to mention the annoyance that is Funerary Incense.

 

Stop acting like openworld PvE players are the only ones that need to spend time in other content if they want rewards. If anything openworld has the most legendaries right now and at the same time the things some players hate the most, such as JPs designed to bring people to tears (per dev) or collecting arbitrary amounts of map currency which locks you to that map exclusively.

 

It is far more harmful to PvP/WvW players or even raiders who all have weekly or seasonal timegates than to openworld players who can spend whatever time they want to do the content.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Astralporing.1957]

The argumens of "i have to sufer, so everyone else have to suffer too" never really appealed to me. When used in practice it only leads to everyone being equally miserable. It's not the sort of equality we should be pushing for.

[Infusion.7149]

24 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

The argumens of "i have to sufer, so everyone else have to suffer too" never really appealed to me. When used in practice it only leads to everyone being equally miserable. It's not the sort of equality we should be pushing for.

What you're suggesting is everyone get a participation award then?

[Cyninja.2954]

8 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

The argumens of "i have to sufer, so everyone else have to suffer too" never really appealed to me. When used in practice it only leads to everyone being equally miserable. It's not the sort of equality we should be pushing for.

True, but it does provide a better spotlight on which things might or should see addressing first, if fairness is of central concern.

 

In this case, spvp and wvw would first need to see a significant amount of appreciaton before open world content would even remotely be of concern. Even raids are far behind open world content in terms of rewards and legendary access (the only reason this comes up less is because most spvp, wvw and raid pve players also participate in open world content).

 

Well that is unless we factor for player base (which is unrelated to fairness) and vocal majority. In which case I'm sure the vast majority will argue in favor of their wishes and open world content as always (see the constant vocal open world community shouting and demanding more and more of the cake for themselves, even while other modes have been without attention for years).

[Dante.1763]

3 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

What you're suggesting is everyone get a participation award then?

Considering that they can balanace an open world method of obtaining a legendary pve set so it would be around a similiar length of time to the other modes, i wouldnt consider that a participation trophy.

[Astralporing.1957]

7 minutes ago, Dante.1763 said:

Considering that they can balanace an open world method of obtaining a legendary pve set so it would be around a similiar length of time to the other modes, i wouldnt consider that a participation trophy.

This.

[Infusion.7149]

20 minutes ago, Dante.1763 said:

Considering that they can balanace an open world method of obtaining a legendary pve set so it would be around a similiar length of time to the other modes, i wouldnt consider that a participation trophy.

The user above was suggesting volatile magic and the original poster was suggesting killing openworld meta bosses people do on timer already. I don't believe that is a remotely sincere goal of balance.

[Sobx.1758]

40 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

The argumens of "i have to sufer, so everyone else have to suffer too" never really appealed to me. When used in practice it only leads to everyone being equally miserable. It's not the sort of equality we should be pushing for.

It's not about "everyone being equally miserable", it's about a basic concept of getting rewards for playing through content, which is what games are -probably especially mmorpgs. "I want it faster and easier" isn't a valid argument and never was one, while that's pretty much all this thread is.

 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Astralporing.1957]

13 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

True, but it does provide a better spotlight on which things might or should see addressing first, if fairness is of central concern.

Nobody's preventing other players to speak up for themselves.

 

We should be striving for adding ways we can have fun, instead of wasting a lot of effort into purely preventing others from having fun. It's especially jarring when people that bring those types of "imbalances" and "unfairness" up never actually ask for balancing it towards them.

 

Hint: if some of those players that are so dead set against OW getting its own legendary armor were to start a thread asking for more legendary types of gear for their mode, you'ddefinitely not see me trying to prevent it as if my life depended on it. In fact, i'd most likely be in support of such ideas. Some people however seem to think that the way to go is to flat out prevent others from "getting the cool stuff". Which is a net negative - prevents some changes that might improve the game for some, at absolutely no gain to everyone else.

 

 

13 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Well that is unless we factor for player base (which is unrelated to fairness) and vocal majority. In which case I'm sure the vast majority will argue in favor of their wishes and open world content as always (see the constant vocal open world community shouting and demanding more and more of the cake for themselves, even while other modes have been without attention for years).

Notice, how it's the hardcore players, not casuals, that are massively overrepresented among the vocal crowd.

 

12 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

The user above was suggesting volatile magic and the original poster was suggesting killing openworld meta bosses people do on timer already. I don't believe that is a remotely sincere goal of balance.

They were not the only ones in this thread though. And sincere talk about balance would require actual talking, instead of immediately going "lolnope", or claiming that if you and your friends don't raid you should not even bother playing MMOs.

[Dante.1763]

17 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

The user above was suggesting volatile magic and the original poster was suggesting killing openworld meta bosses people do on timer already. I don't believe that is a remotely sincere goal of balance.

Regardless of the posts here, it would be up to anet to decide how to balance it. Theyve done a good job with the legendary weapon and jewelry collections so far.

 

It would only be easier in that raids wouldnt be required.

 

My dream goal would be for each area to have its own full set of armor and jewelry.

 

4 full sets total.

 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Dante.1763

[Astralporing.1957]

19 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

It's not about "everyone being equally miserable"

You're right. Often it's about putting a lot of effort into making sure others are more miserable than you are.

[Sobx.1758]

3 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

You're right. Often it's about putting a lot of effort into making sure others are more miserable than you are.

That has nothing to do with what I said.

Not sure why you'd write "you're right" and then follow it up with something completely made up, other than just you knowing you have nothing relevant to say here so you need to revert to intentionally misrepresenting what I wrote.

 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Tails.9372]

6 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

That argument is valid for first two examples only if you equate "no friends" with "no friends that are interested/skilled enough in doing raids" (and yes, there are people that just aren't skilled enough), and "no guild" with "no guild that has enough players interested in doing raids".

 

Even then it wouldn't be valid, you don't need friends / guilds to enjoy group content like pugging a big meta event. Gameplay is also a big factor why people play games to begin with so if someone is playing the game for that then telling that person to "go play another game" has no meaning for them usless you can show them a game that also gets that person exactly what he likes about GW2s gameplay. Same thing for those who play the game for the story and lore.

[Sobx.1758]

4 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

Even then it wouldn't be valid, you don't need friends / guilds to enjoy group content like pugging a big meta event. Gameplay is also a big factor why people play games to begin with so if someone is playing the game for that then telling that person to "go play another game" has no meaning for them usless you can show them a game that also gets that person exactly what he likes about GW2s gameplay. Same thing for those who play the game for the story and lore.

Luckily, you also don't need friends/guilds to pug raids right from the very start, despite of what some people on this forum try to falsely claim.

 

You seem to forget what kind of reward is being discussed here. If someone's playing for the story and lore, they're free to do that. Not acquiring legendary gear changes nothing about their ability to do that.

 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Infusion.7149]

15 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

 

Even then it wouldn't be valid, you don't need friends / guilds to enjoy group content like pugging a big meta event. Gameplay is also a big factor why people play games to begin with so if someone is playing the game for that then telling that person to "go play another game" has no meaning for them usless you can show them a game that also gets that person exactly what he likes about GW2s gameplay. Same thing for those who play the game for the story and lore.

This still doesn't change the fact that in the time people spent complaining they could have gotten it. Some of the people asking for it here have been complaining since old version of the forum.

 

It's even more true now that you only need one set per weight.

 

Now if your point was more ascended weapons for openworld then I'd be all for it. Arenanet seems to agree since thus far no precursors have been given out, only the gift of ice/lightning that are to address the now no longer developed dungeons and at the same time Frostsaw , Drakkar's hoard, and gift of Aurene are added.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Vilin.8056]

2 hours ago, Dante.1763 said:

Considering that they can balanace an open world method of obtaining a legendary pve set so it would be around a similiar length of time to the other modes, i wouldnt consider that a participation trophy.

Then these casual players who neglet raid/PvP/WvW would equally hate it.

 

It's like asking developers to spend another 6 month to 1 year's resource for a single cosmetic item that don't look better than gemstore outfits, cost around 4k gold or more for all 6 pieces, a lot of tediusm over collections, just for a left over community that never liked the idea of switching builds.

 

Only a very niche playerbase among open world grinders would persuit for this idea, for the rest of us, we rather have these development resources to be spent upon more variants of armor skins that doesn't need to be legendary, yet more cost friendly to the casual community.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Vilin.8056

[Obtena.7952]

7 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

 

If you exclusively PvE and don't do instanced content where the QoL improvement over ascended armor would even be beneficial I don't know what to tell you. Just because other people you know don't want to do raids doesn't stop you from joining a community discord and doing them. Likewise there's nothing stopping people from slowly acquiring WvW/PvP armor. One of my anti-raiding anti-PvP friends is 10K WvW rank.

People that aren't skilled enough or are lazy buy DRM CMs and there are actually more raid sellers than DRM sellers.

 

Just like the above person comparing volatile magic to a timegated currency that takes 22 hours of playtime to max out. Also having done Aurora, there's no skipping the JPs or the collection items (there's actually a WvW player asking about it on the forums). A 8 hour reward track is being compared to some PvE achievements in a living story episodes the PvE playerbase claims to do in a few hours at most and then the all too common "dead game no content" that follows.

 

To put it bluntly, a luxury is not a necessity. That's why more acquisition methods for ascended weapon drops are a positive thing whereas handing out legendaries for doing whatever you want is not.

 

It's like saying best in slot stats is legendary when that is not the case, it's ascended.

True, the suggestion isn't about the need for casual players to have Leg. Armor (because NO one needs it ... it's a convenience item). It's about engaging players with the assets of the game. It's the whole reason Anet CREATES those assets in the first place. When Anet creates assets and the effort doesn't match the number of people that engage with those assets, that's a big miss. 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Tails.9372]

6 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

You seem to forget what kind of reward is being discussed here. If someone's playing for the story and lore, they're free to do that. Not acquiring legendary gear changes nothing about their ability to do that.

 

The kind of reward being discussed here is entirely QoL in which regard even someone who only plays for the story / lore can get as much out of it as everyone else. Whether someone plays WvW and wants to change their stats or someone is more into fashion who wants to wear skins that go with whatever content he's playing at the moment and therefore desires the free skin swapping is ultimately just a preference for the player and a hook for the developer to keep players engaged with the game and I have yet to actually hear a good argument as for why some parts of the player base deserve a free set of legendary gear for simply doing whatever in their game mode while the other one does not. I've seen WvW players complaining about how they too have to leave their "comfort zone" but the only item where they actually have to do that in a disproportionate way is the amulet.

[Obtena.7952]

14 minutes ago, Vilin.8056 said:

Only a very niche playerbase would persuit for this idea, for the rest of us, we rather have these development resources to be spent upon more variants of armor skins that's way cheaper to get.

Yet we ALREADY have Leg Armor ingame for the 'very niche playerbase who would pursure obtaining it ... so that's not really a problem here. We already jumped that shark. 

 

This is the way I see it ... Anet has ALREADY created the asset in the game, so they got two choices: cut their loses and run (like they did with raids) or take that asset and add value to it for more players. If Anet are going to continue developments around these legendary assets, then it's time for them to consider NOT making it a very niche playerbase that would pursue obtaining it. 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Dante.1763]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Yet we ALREADY have Leg Armor ingame for the 'very niche playerbase who would pursure obtaining it ... so that's not really a problem here. 

 

This is the way I see it ... Anet has ALREADY created the asset in the game, so they got two choices: cut their loses and run (like they did with raids) or take that asset and add value to it for more players. 

Its also interesting folks seem to think that anet can only do one thing at a time too.

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, Dante.1763 said:

Its also interesting folks seem to think that anet can only do one thing at a time too.

here is the thing that impressive to me about that kind of thinking ... 

 

People seem to think Anet will not 're-issue' or 're-package' game assets to engage players and make some money? That's EXACTLY what has happened in the last 2 months and in the coming months as well. And it WORKS.

 

[Fuchslein.8639]

31 minutes ago, Vilin.8056 said:

Then these casual players who neglet raid/PvP/WvW would equally hate it.

 

It's like asking developers to spend another 6 month to 1 year's resource for a single cosmetic item that don't look better than gemstore outfits, cost around 4k gold or more for all 6 pieces, a lot of tediusm over collections, for a left over community that never liked the idea of switching builds.

 

Only a very niche playerbase would persuit for this idea, for the rest of us, we rather have these development resources to be spent upon more variants of armor skins that doesn't need to be legendary, yet more cost friendly to the casual community.

 

 They most likely wouldn't even get a special skin, just like wvw and pvp. Just a QOL which is incredibly time consuming and resource intensive, even more so than the skyscale.

 

Legy armor, as introduced, was a raid-only Reward with special skin+animation.

Even when pve(whatever this means) will get an legy armor, like wvw/pvp, it will one with a generic skin, and i think many will not like what they have to do for it.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Fuchslein.8639

[Dante.1763]

6 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

here is the thing that impressive to me about that kind of thinking ... 

 

People seem to think Anet will not 're-issue' or 're-package' game assets to engage players and make some money? That's EXACTLY what has happened in the last 2 months and in the coming months as well. And it WORKS.

 

It really does, and more importantly theyve tried. Repeatedly. To get players to do raids.

 

From a business stand point, making changes to raids so they appealed to the majority of the playerbase would be within my interest.

 

Spending all that time, and money, and then abandoning it because player turnout was so low, instead of making changes doesnt seem like smart business to me.

 

 

[Sobx.1758]

19 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Again, the suggestion isn't about the need for casual players to have Leg. Armor (because NO one needs it ... it's a convenience item). It's about engaging players with the assets of the game. It's the whole reason Anet CREATES those assets in the first place. When Anet creates assets and the effort doesn't match the number of people that engage with those assets, that's a big miss. 

If anet wanted everyone to just have it, they'd give them out at character creation. PERFECT "player engagement with the assets", seeing how everyone would be able to engage with that asset no matter what. You keep repeating this silly phrase as if it means anything, but it really doesn't. If you want to talk about engagement with assets, you should swap your interest to talking about underplayed content instead of pretending that 3 reward sets are the problem here.