New path to legendary armor?

[Endilbiach.4132]

12 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

The game already gives you three ways to get legendary armor. Just playing open world doesn’t really justify legendary armor. 

 

Then why does it justify getting legendary weapons?

[yoni.7015]

5 minutes ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

 

Then why does it justify getting legendary weapons?

You have three game modes: PvE, PvP and WvW. Each game mode has a way to get legendary armor. 

[Cyninja.2954]

Just going to put this here, because this demand is not new. In fact it is as old as raids themselves and the introduction of legendary armor (or insert any desired reward which is locked behind something some one does not want or can not do):

 

- if you want to get the desired item/reward/loot, find a way to work within the existing system to acquire it. That will increase your chance to get where you want to be the most (if players complaining about legendary armor taking to long had started years ago, each and everyone would be done by now, just like those who did start)

 

- hoping on things in the future, especially big changes from past behavior, is very unreliable in actually acquiring you desired item (but it makes for great forum round-about discussions)

 

- even IF something is changed/implemented, there is no guarantee you will like the change/new implementation and in fact there is a far greater chance that you might dislike the change (think precursor crafting, legendary armor being added to spvp and wvw, T2 legendary weapons, etc.)

 

In regards to gear, GW2 does make it a LOT easier than the competition to get best in slot. Still best in slot WITH convenience remains expensive. Chances are pretty high that even IF there was alternate methods to acquire specific items via new ways (say legendary armor through pve content which is unrelated to raids) those approaches will be just as if not more difficult than past opportunities. At least if past implementation is something to go by.

 

Even so, as mentioned, hoping on a different acquisition method as sole way to get to where you want to get is limited and you are best advised to start on working towards your goal in already existing avenues. That is IF you are serious about reaching your goal.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Xanadrine.4352]

1 minute ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Just going to put this here, because this demand is not new. In fact it is as old as raids themselves and the introduction of legendary armor (or insert any desired reward which is locked behind something some one does not want or can not do):

 

- if you want to get the desired item/reward/loot, find a way to work within the existing system to acquire it. That will increase your chance to get where you want to be the most (if players complaining about legendary armor taking to long had started years ago, each and everyone would be done by now, just like those who did start)

 

- hoping on things in the future, especially big changes from past behavior, is very unreliable

 

- even IF something is changed, there is no guarantee you will like the change and in fact there is a far greater chance that you might dislike the change (think precursor crafting, legendary armor being added to spvp and wvw, T2 legendary weapons, etc.)

 

In regards to gear, GW2 does make it a LOT easier than the competition to get best in slot. Still best in slot WITH convenience remains expensive. Chances are pretty high that even IF there was alternate methods to acquire specific items via new ways (say legendary armor through pve content which is unrelated to raids) those approaches will be just as if not more difficult than past opportunities. At least if past implementation is something to go by.

 

Even so, as mentioned, hoping on a different acquisition method as sole way to get to where you want to get is limited and you are best advised to start on working towards your goal in already existing avenues. That is IF you are serious about reaching your goal.

Im going to have to disagree with that comment on best in slot. This game is incredibly torturous to get best in anything, excruciating grinds that lead to more grinds that dont reward much. I was fully decked with just about every weapon and armor piece in the game not to mention mounts just by playing and getting drops in the competition. I think they are rather stingy when it comes to rewards, some of these events bosses ect are seriously hard to do yet the rewards are kinda bad. Some things are such long terrible grinds to get something that really isnt that great. I have always played a game and had loot drops or rewards in game worth the scale of the content the equivalent of legendary here. So no the competition understand the reward system for players better I would say.

[yoni.7015]

3 minutes ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

Im going to have to disagree with that comment on best in slot. This game is incredibly torturous to get best in anything, excruciating grinds that lead to more grinds that dont reward much. I was fully decked with just about every weapon and armor piece in the game not to mention mounts just by playing and getting drops in the competition. I think they are rather stingy when it comes to rewards, some of these events bosses ect are seriously hard to do yet the rewards are kinda bad. Some things are such long terrible grinds to get something that really isnt that great. I have always played a game and had loot drops or rewards in game worth the scale of the content the equivalent of legendary here. So no the competition understand the reward system for players better I would say.

That’s not really true. It is very easy to get ascended gear in the game. 

[Xanadrine.4352]

6 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

That’s not really true. It is very easy to get ascended gear in the game. 

Yes ascended cost gold if you have gold you can get ascended, gold is hard to make in this game. If im able to log in everyday I can make 60 gold a month, thats a pittance of what it cost to make full ascended. But im fine with it. How about they add a random legendary as random drops off bosses, big events ect in EoD? I really dont see why that is an issue, just another way to get rewards?

Edited July 17, 2021 by Zuldari.3940

[yoni.7015]

2 minutes ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

Yes ascended cost gold if you have gold you can get ascended, gold is hard to make in this game. If im able to log in everyday I can make 60 gold a month, thats a pittance of what it cost to make full ascended. But im fine with it.

Why is it hard to make gold? There are so many ways to get a ton of gold. Of course If you only get the 2 Gold from dailies, it will take a while. 
And there is no item mill in the game so once you got ascended  gear it stays best in slot. 

[Rogue.8235]

It seems to me that some in this thread desire something akin to an expansion of the map bonus reward structure, but on a global scale across open world pve.

 

For reference, click this sentence to read about map bonus reward tracks in open world pve.

 

I'm not sure how to conceptualize an over-world bonus reward structure (that can be built from existing functions of the map reward structure) in such a way as to award legendary armor with the same investment as other methods.

 

One problem I see is the avoidance of "efficient routes"

How do you structure this system in such a way as to avoid players farming the same route continuously?  A side effect of this goal, that seems to be consistently brought up in this thread, is to re-incentivize older content for long-time players.

Also note, map completion contributes to the existing map reward tracks.

 

You would need some sort of location-based tracking of open world activities as a foundation to incentivize varied gameplay.

You also need to avoid creating a system that is too similar to the already existing gift of exploration and map reward tracks.  Too much overlap will feel grindy to players due to the lack of "frechness" and novelty.

 

What is the balance of skill-check, time-gating, and resource sinking that should be implemented?  You want to have the same investment as other legendary armor paths, bei it time, currency, skill, or any other criteria someone imaginative can come up with.  However, you want to avoid a system that is perceived as too costly, as this would deter most players and illicit a negative response to the game as a whole.

 

These are just a few things off the top of my head.  If I take the time to think about it I would be able to bring up more considerations that ArenaNet would have to address.  This is to demonstrate the complexity of the issue and why it can't "just be done quickly."

 

oh another one

Scalability must be taken into account.  System must be designed in such a way that it scales with the evolution of the game.  You don't want something that will "feel outdated" or become obsolete.  Legendaries are an overarching reward structure in the game.  By it's nature, it must be able to withstand time and evolution.

 

Don't forget resources required for designing new armor sets.  Armor skins are very resource intensive.  The cost-benefit of new armor skins vs. reuse of existing assets must be analyzed.  Resources should not be the only consideration.  Player perception must be taken into account.

 

Another consideration is allocation of resources.  What time table do you need, which considers other planned release schedules.  How much development should be reallocated to the open world pve legendary armor project and for what duration.  Marginal cost (adjusted for time value money) and other such financial techniques must be used in this analysis.  SWOT, 5 forces, and other such strategic techniques must be used in the analysis.  Risk assessments as well.  Budget's need to be drawn as well as value-added.  Notice how I used the term value-added and not something that is milted to monetary gain.  Value-added is extremely important in the software industry.  Of course, anyone with an intermediate background in economics are finance will be able to quantify value-added for comparison purposes for the decision makers.

 

 

What the forums can actually help with is a prelude to the case analysis.  What do the players actually want out of this system?  be thorough and descriptive and identify what you prioritize.  This helps with the later use case analysis that would be done before any project gets rolling.  Such thorough and detailed descriptions help project planners identify how the system would be used.

 

All of this is just food for thought.

 

edited for grammar.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Rogue.8235

[Xanadrine.4352]

Just now, yoni.7015 said:

Why is it hard to make gold? There are so many ways to get a ton of gold. Of course If you only get the 2 Gold from dailies, it will take a while. 
And there is no item mill in the game so once you got ascended  gear it stays best in slot. 

Why? because you have to grind your kitten off to get 5 gold selling mats on the TP. A stack of ore is like 30 silver, you know how long it takes someone to mine a stack? This is what im talking about you vets that have played for a decade and sunk a ton of money into the game ofc you have everything. It takes me hours to get a stack of anything.

[yoni.7015]

1 minute ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

Why? because you have to grind your kitten off to get 5 gold selling mats on the TP. A stack of ore is like 30 silver, you know how long it takes someone to mine a stack? This is what im talking about you vets that have played for a decade and sunk a ton of money into the game ofc you have everything. It takes me hours to get a stack of anything.

T4 fractals will cost you 30 minutes and will reward you with at least ten gold. Just to name one easy way of making gold, and there are even more effective ways. 

Edited July 17, 2021 by yoni.7015

[Xanadrine.4352]

5 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

T4 fractals will cost you 30 minutes and will reward you with at least ten gold. Just to name one easy way of making gold, and there are even more effective ways. 

LOL  T4 huh, maybe i should go solo some raid bosses while im at it. Do you even understand the groups that do T4 dont take people like me, i dont kill the meters, im in exotic thats a nono. People always say they make 20gold a day in game, yeah? how do they sit at the pc for 10 hours farming? I tried make metas i made like a few gold from all the mats the economy is tanked in this game, and the rewards are poor. Most people buy gold thats how

Edited July 17, 2021 by Zuldari.3940

[Cyninja.2954]

21 minutes ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

Im going to have to disagree with that comment on best in slot. This game is incredibly torturous to get best in anything, excruciating grinds that lead to more grinds that dont reward much. I was fully decked with just about every weapon and armor piece in the game not to mention mounts just by playing and getting drops in the competition. I think they are rather stingy when it comes to rewards, some of these events bosses ect are seriously hard to do yet the rewards are kinda bad. Some things are such long terrible grinds to get something that really isnt that great. I have always played a game and had loot drops or rewards in game worth the scale of the content the equivalent of legendary here. So no the competition understand the reward system for players better I would say.

I am going to highlight the relevant part here:

 

Quote

In regards to gear, GW2 does make it a LOT easier than the competition to get best in slot.

 

If you think GW2 is excruciating, you have never played ANY other MMORPG before.

[yoni.7015]

1 minute ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

LOL  T4 huh, maybe i should go solo some raid bosses while im at it. Do you even understand the groups that do T4 dont take people like me, i dont kill the meters, im in exotic thats a nono. People always say they make 20gold a day in game, yeah? how do they sit at the pc for 10 hours farming? I tried make metas i made like a few gold from all the mats the economy is tanked in this game, and the rewards are poor

Well then it seems the problem here is you and not the game. There are a lot of ways to make gold if you don’t do them, that’s on you. 

[Xanadrine.4352]

2 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

Well then it seems the problem here is you and not the game. There are a lot of ways to make gold if you don’t do them, that’s on you. 

Hey then friend me and lets do T4, im willing to go, no one will take me lol

[yoni.7015]

4 minutes ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

Most people buy gold thats how

Do you have numbers to support this?

[Xanadrine.4352]

5 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

Do you have numbers to support this?

Seriously you think this game survives on air? People are paying for gems and gold with RL money, if they were not the servers would be shut down because it cost a small fortune to keep the game going. They are not running on kindness, you got to have revenue coming in to pay for the developers the maintenance the designers the servers someone is paying, hell i buy gems when I want a mount skin or account upgrade or a cosmetic.  I just plopped down 20 bucks for a mount skin, a skin lol

Edited July 17, 2021 by Zuldari.3940

[T G.7496]

Maybe if there was just one, single in game currency. Just one thing everybody was awarded with, from anything and everything they did. And then there was one type of vendor, with tabs for everything you could get in game. And somewhere near the bottom was a tab for legendary armour. And we could then just go shopping at our convenience.

 

Instead we have to suffer this damned diversity that encourages participation in a range of (end)game modes. What a stupid idea.

 

Seriously, I'd go with the WvW solution. It is EASY. It is simply a time-gate, and actually my view is that that is perfectly fine.

 

The irony is that you'd probably have enough tickets for most if not a full set of armour by now if you'd been doing even a little bit now and then over the years. There is no barrier to entry, and no real skill check. You can just do the PvE content in WvW if you want.

[yoni.7015]

2 minutes ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

Seriously you think this game survives on air? People are paying for gems and gold with RL money, if they were not the servers would be shut down because it cost a small fortune to keep the game going. They are not running on kindness, you got to have revenue coming in to pay for the developers the maintenance the designers the servers someone is paying, hell i buy gems when I want a mount skin or account upgrade or a cosmetic.  

Sure but you wrote that most (!) people buy gold. I just wanted to have a number for that. 

Edited July 17, 2021 by yoni.7015

[Cyninja.2954]

4 minutes ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

Seriously you think this game survives on air? People are paying for gems and gold with RL money, if they were not the servers would be shut down because it cost a small fortune to keep the game going. They are not running on kindness, you got to have revenue coming in to pay for the developers the maintenance the designers the servers someone is paying, hell i buy gems when I want a mount skin or account upgrade or a cosmetic.  

You might want to read up on how the gem exchange works.

 

Those gems purchased and converted to gold, that gold was farmed by other players in game. Also that is not indicative of the game having bad gold rewards. It just means that certain wages/hour allow players to save time in game and circumvent a lower wage in gold/hour.

 

Simply put:

If I make 30$ and hour, but make only 20 gold per hour in game, I might value my time and spend some of those 30$ on gems to then exchange to gold. Notice how this does not in any way say ANYTHING about how much or little those 20 gold are in relationship to ingame items.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Xanadrine.4352]

Just now, Cyninja.2954 said:

You might want to read up on how the gem exchange works.

 

Those gems purchased and converted to gold, that gold was farmed by other players in game.

Im sorry but you didnt get what i said. Yes there is an exchange, so if the majority are using the exchange whos paying for the servers and the game to keep running? Who paying for the updates, the salaries, look at the income revenue for the game thats not all from people buying expansions a lot is people buying gems. Or the game cant run without money 

[Cyninja.2954]

1 minute ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

Im sorry but you didnt get what i said. Yes there is an exchange, so if the majority are using the exchange whos paying for the servers and the game to keep running? Who paying for the updates, the salaries, look at the income revenue for the game thats not all from people buying expansions a lot is people buying gems. Or the game cant run without money 

Again, you do not understand the exchange. Please read up on it.

 

The way you are using the exchange and gold conversion is in no way an argument or proof for anything you said.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Xanadrine.4352]

2 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Again, you do not understand the exchange. Please read up on it.

 

The way you are using the exchange and gold conversion is in no way an argument or proof for anything you said.

OMG seriously? The exchange has no bearing on profit for the game, its all done in game no real money is made, just server gold being exchanged for gems. The real money they need to keep the servers up and the game going comes from real money gem sales and expansion sales. And there are not millions of new people buying expansions.

[Cyninja.2954]

6 minutes ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

OMG seriously? The exchange has no bearing on profit for the game, its all done in game no real money is made, just server gold being exchanged for gems. The real money they need to keep the servers up and the game going comes from real money gem sales and expansion sales. And there are not millions of new people buying expansions.

That is not what I said. That is also not what is at dispute here.

 

You claimed that the exchange and the fact that people exchange money for gems/gold is proof that the ingame golde rewards are insufficient or bad. THAT is not true.

 

Not a single person in this thread besides you has made the claim that the exchange has no bearing on the revenue of the company.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Fuchslein.8639]

@Zuldari.3940

There are TONS of ways to make gold in this game oO. Yeah, its grindy, but to say other MMO's are different only shows that you have never played another MMO.

 

I myself don't even have all season episodes and therefore access to the atm most active events. But with Silverwaste and Tarir alone you can make tons of gold.

And if no one takes you in t4 make your own group. Stop blaming others just because gw2 is not for you.

[Sarrs.4831]

I don't think I'm necessarily opposed to it if it's a skinless set like WvW or sPvP but I don't know why it would be so essential. You'd be spending a lot of gold to get it and you could probably funnel that into 3 or 4 ascended armor sets that would do the same thing for less, and if you need to, you can change their stats with the MF recipe.

 

If we're talking about skinned sets; WvW and sPvP don't have skinned sets and it would be better for them to get them first.