New path to legendary armor?

[Shutterbug.5974]

I would like something like this too.  It would be nice to see different play preferences represented when it comes to achieving/crafting high tier items.  

[Tails.9372]

35 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

That's essentially what an openworld legendary would be like.

 

Not if it's based on general gamemode participation like how it is for sPvP and WvW. The general reward structure for PvE could also use an overhaul, WvW for example does a significantly better job in that regard, so that could go hand in hand.

 

 

36 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

In addition, you need to go into WvW for gift of battle

 

Not for the armor, unlike for the weapons these sets don't need GoB with the exception of the WvW ones but for them that should be a given.

[Infusion.7149]

7 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

 

Not if it's based on general gamemode participation like how it is for sPvP and WvW. The general reward structure for PvE could also use an overhaul, WvW for example does a significantly better job in that regard, so that could go hand in hand.

 

 

 

Not for the armor, unlike for the weapons these sets don't need GoB with the exception of the WvW ones but for them that should be a given.

Good job cutting one liners out of my post.

Thee hasn't been any indication that reward structure will be overhauled for PvE, look at Dragonscale cape for example. "Could use an overhaul" is pure opinion and not based on previous collections or fact.

In the past every PvE legendary precursor has required a bunch of steps that the majority of people are going to complain about if they didn't buy precursors off the TP. People even complained about Drizzlewood otters. Remember that?

Given more people have legendary weapons than armor I disagree with your assessment of gift of battle. It used to be that you needed to map complete WVW to even make gen 1 weapons.

Also to the person saying "competitive gets two sets" it's because some most people aren't even close to the 100 PVP rank or the prior 2K WVW rank.

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Tails.9372]

28 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Good job cutting one liners out of my post.

 

Why should I quote things with little to no relevance to my reply? Including the other stuff wouldn't have changed the meaning of what I said or replied to. Seems like you just want to deflect here.

 

 

28 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Thee hasn't been any indication that reward structure will be overhauled for PvE

 

That beside the point and that line of thinking could be used to be dismissive of pretty much anything people bring up so it's a rather empty point to make.

 

 

28 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

In the past every PvE legendary precursor has required a bunch of steps that the majority of people are going to complain about

 

The devs are not tied to what's "in the past". Also, in one of their recent announcements they stated that they want to bring "the player perspective into our development process" so "the past" is not much of an excuse for them to not doing X unless you want to say that this is just "PR speech" and they have no intention to take community feedback seriously which I guess remains to be seen.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Tails.9372

[Infusion.7149]

1 minute ago, Tails.9372 said:

 

Why should I quote things with little to no relevance to my reply? Seems like you just want to deflect here.

 

 

 

That beside the point and that like of thinking could be used to be dismissive of pretty much anything people bring up so it's a rather empty point to make.

 

 

 

The devs are not tied to what's "in the past". Also, in one of their recent announcements they stated that they want to bring "the player perspective into our development process" so "the past" is not much of an excuse for them to not doing X unless you want to say that this is just "PR speech" and they have no intention to take community feedback seriously which I guess remains to be seen.

There is no existing participation system outside of meta events. I'm not sure what you're trying to say here? Do you really want another "do this meta event 100 times" and another collect 15000 supplies achievement?

Edited July 16, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Firebeard.1746]

@OP:

If you're rich, then consider this:

Learn Cairn, Mursaat overseer and conjured amalgamate. They're some of the easiest encounters. This will turn into 3 LI per week, use NA raid discord. if you do that for a year, you'll end up with 150 LIs. Then just pay carry groups for the armor collections. It's expensive, about 100 MC per boss, but you can also cut the cost considerably by doing the earlier bosses/achieves in each of the 4 wings in training runs and generally the first bosses are easier. 400 MC may be a bit steep, but it's not undoable, if you have around 800g. Often sellers will let you do just the last boss of each wing. Sometimes the rate is a little higher for single bosses in a wing.

If you want to go further, learn SH, not because it's easy, but because its follow-up river of souls is. That will net you 5 per week ( you can convert LDs to LIs, that's almost 250 a year if you do just those 5 bosses per week.

If you think you're rich enough to cover the bosses you can't do but can farm the easier ones, that's the least headache way to get the any legendary armor. I am not going this path just because I don't like the game mode and want to send a clear signal to the devs that I want something different for end game. And I respect you if you make the same choice, I just don't think if you really care about the PVE armors that it's that bad if you're good at gold farming and pick your battles. I also believe this is why the PVE armors are the most popular of the legendary armors.

If you're pressed for time, not rich and hyper casual, I recommend doing the ranked PVP route. There's literally a 6:1 ratio in effectiveness as far as pips go. WvW only breaks even with PVP at 6 pips/tick + you're losing every match in PVP. That's really hard to do (the losing every match part. Your win rate can get ridiculously tanked by trolls of various kinds, but you can also control this by being mindful of when you queue, like if your team was just steamrolled, expect the matchmaker to make the same mistakes again and wait a while before requeueing. If you win a match, immediately requeue.). (basically PVP is .6 shards per pip, best case, WvW is like .25 for its currency, tickets, but most people only get .2 if they do the first few chests, so that's a 3:1 ratio. Then, you look at the armor costs and the WvW ones cost at least double the special currency of PVP's).

If you only do through persimmon chest every season, you'll get about 1/3rd the shards you need over the course of a year.

For PVP I recommend looking at meta builds in Metabattle and using them. You're not going to come up with something better on your own is my experience.

That said, I find WvW the most enjoyable if you do it with a good group and aren't focused on the pips. The game mode is actually pretty great and legendary armor farmers ruin it for themselves and others with their semi AFK strategies. Though i can't blame them given how much of a grind anet has made it. I just wish they gave them something OW instead to preserve the integrity of WvW.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Firebeard.1746

[Sobx.1758]

55 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

Not if it's based on general gamemode participation like how it is for sPvP and WvW. The general reward structure for PvE could also use an overhaul, WvW for example does a significantly better job in that regard, so that could go hand in hand.

Nope, quite the opposite -if anything, it's the wvw reward system that could use restructuring to promote active participation.

 

[Tails.9372]

20 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

There is no existing participation system outside of meta events.

 

Yes, compared to the one from WvW the thing PvE got is just a jumbled mess not even really worth to be called "a system". In PvE you usually don't have any reason to bother with the smaller side events unless you need them for a collection while in WvW you do have an incentive to engage with pretty much everything as it all counts for your progress no matter what you're after (assuming you're not completely done already).

 

 

22 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here? Do you really want another "do this meta event 100 times" and another collect 15000 supplies achievement?

 

You brought up how people don't like doing specific stuff like the chalice of tears which would not be an issue if new sets were based on general gamemode participation. Implementing new sets in combination with a system like the one WvW is using would give players a way to work towards them without needing to do the things you said they don't like while also adding value to content that usually gets ignored. 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Nope, quite the opposite -if anything, it's the wvw reward system that could use restructuring to promote active participation.

 

The issue here is not really the system but more the quality of the common rewards.

[Infusion.7149]

The general game mode participation is already included as part of the gifts. Have you made gen 2 legendary weapons or gen 1 precursors? If you need map complete it's "general participation".

That even goes for Aurora/Vision as Crystalline Ingots or Funerary Incense (nightmare to deal with normally) are based on map currencies.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Sobx.1758]

3 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

The issue here is not really the system but more the quality of the common rewards.

Who decided the system is not the issue? You? How?

 

And how exactly "wvw does better in that regard"? Maybe that will help me understand what you're talking about.

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Endilbiach.4132]

2 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Just out of curiosity did you enjoy the collections for Vision/Aurora and the accountbound gen 2 weapons and gen 1 precursors? Keep in mind the adventures and jumping puzzles , which unlike raiding you can't get carried at all on adventures and chalice of tears JP needs multiple mesmer portals rather than just teleport to friend. That kind of content is horrid for anyone that is of the older age-groups.

That's essentially what an openworld legendary would be like. I still see people complaining about Skyscale collection these days and that has the pungent skyscale treats as a skipping mechanism.

Given the amount of complaints people had over achievements that involve repeating metas 50 or 100 times, Marionette, raid-lite content such as the Runic Cape, Jormag Eye Infusions, etc. you really need to think about whether it is a great idea.

In addition, you need to go into WvW for gift of battle so you might as well learn the mode. PVP is simply just doing it as there is no penalty for losing : you still maintain progress but it just is slightly slower. In PVP you're always pushed toward 50% win rate by the matchmaker regardless of how good you are.

 

Those particular series of collections have particularly problematic points.  Such as Chalice of Tears and the Draconis Mons jumping puzzles, which are HARD skill checks.  The rest of Aurora in particular actually isn't that bad (Bitterfrost Frontier's interior bug problems notwithstanding.)  For the adventures I'd prefer if they avoided some of the much harder ones (see: half of Auric Basin and Tangled Depths) and didn't require anything above silver credit for them.  I'd REALLY prefer it if they avoided it entirely but I you can't always get what you want.  Also 6 gifts of battle is nothing like getting like 7500 Skirmish Tickets.

 

My personal focus would largely be on the lesser done regional metas that can be done with smaller groups, such as the Centaur camps in Queensdale and Kessex, Skrittsburgh in Brisban, the...whatever they're called in central north Metrica, Ogre Wars, various other things.  Just LOTS of them.

As for the 'repeating metas' thing, I wouldn't suggest anything that requires grinding the SAME meta.  Instead I'd suggest something along the lines of  "Every world boss on the first and second lines of the event timer page drops 2-10 of the new currency known as MacGuffin Marks, for one full set of legendary armor you need 1000 MacGuffin Marks."  That way it's your choice as to whether grind specific world bosses, follow the world boss train to every event, skip certain world bosses, or however you want to approach that.

Also it says something to me about how much I suck at spvp that I've never made it above like a 45% win rate I don't think.

[Endilbiach.4132]

1 hour ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

@OP:

If you're rich, then consider this:

Learn Cairn, Mursaat overseer and conjured amalgamate. They're some of the easiest encounters. This will turn into 3 LI per week, use NA raid discord. if you do that for a year, you'll end up with 150 LIs. Then just pay carry groups for the armor collections. It's expensive, about 100 MC per boss, but you can also cut the cost considerably by doing the earlier bosses/achieves in each of the 4 wings in training runs and generally the first bosses are easier. 400 MC may be a bit steep, but it's not undoable, if you have around 800g. Often sellers will let you do just the last boss of each wing. Sometimes the rate is a little higher for single bosses in a wing.

If you want to go further, learn SH, not because it's easy, but because its follow-up river of souls is. That will net you 5 per week ( you can convert LDs to LIs, that's almost 250 a year if you do just those 5 bosses per week.

If you think you're rich enough to cover the bosses you can't do but can farm the easier ones, that's the least headache way to get the any legendary armor. I am not going this path just because I don't like the game mode and want to send a clear signal to the devs that I want something different for end game. And I respect you if you make the same choice, I just don't think if you really care about the PVE armors that it's that bad if you're good at gold farming and pick your battles. I also believe this is why the PVE armors are the most popular of the legendary armors.

If you're pressed for time, not rich and hyper casual, I recommend doing the ranked PVP route. There's literally a 6:1 ratio in effectiveness as far as pips go. WvW only breaks even with PVP at 6 pips/tick + you're losing every match in PVP. That's really hard to do (the losing every match part. Your win rate can get ridiculously tanked by trolls of various kinds, but you can also control this by being mindful of when you queue, like if your team was just steamrolled, expect the matchmaker to make the same mistakes again and wait a while before requeueing. If you win a match, immediately requeue.). (basically PVP is .6 shards per pip, best case, WvW is like .25 for its currency, tickets, but most people only get .2 if they do the first few chests, so that's a 3:1 ratio. Then, you look at the armor costs and the WvW ones cost at least double the special currency of PVP's).

If you only do through persimmon chest every season, you'll get about 1/3rd the shards you need over the course of a year.

For PVP I recommend looking at meta builds in Metabattle and using them. You're not going to come up with something better on your own is my experience.

That said, I find WvW the most enjoyable if you do it with a good group and aren't focused on the pips. The game mode is actually pretty great and legendary armor farmers ruin it for themselves and others with their semi AFK strategies. Though i can't blame them given how much of a grind anet has made it. I just wish they gave them something OW instead to preserve the integrity of WvW.

 

"If you're rich."

I currently have 12 gold.

[Infusion.7149]

16 minutes ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

 

Those particular series of collections have particularly problematic points.  Such as Chalice of Tears and the Draconis Mons jumping puzzles, which are HARD skill checks.  The rest of Aurora in particular actually isn't that bad (Bitterfrost Frontier's interior bug problems notwithstanding.)  For the adventures I'd prefer if they avoided some of the much harder ones (see: half of Auric Basin and Tangled Depths) and didn't require anything above silver credit for them.  I'd REALLY prefer it if they avoided it entirely but I you can't always get what you want.  Also 6 gifts of battle is nothing like getting like 7500 Skirmish Tickets.

 

My personal focus would largely be on the lesser done regional metas that can be done with smaller groups, such as the Centaur camps in Queensdale and Kessex, Skrittsburgh in Brisban, the...whatever they're called in central north Metrica, Ogre Wars, various other things.  Just LOTS of them.

As for the 'repeating metas' thing, I wouldn't suggest anything that requires grinding the SAME meta.  Instead I'd suggest something along the lines of  "Every world boss on the first and second lines of the event timer page drops 2-10 of the new currency known as MacGuffin Marks, for one full set of legendary armor you need 1000 MacGuffin Marks."  That way it's your choice as to whether grind specific world bosses, follow the world boss train to every event, skip certain world bosses, or however you want to approach that.

Also it says something to me about how much I suck at spvp that I've never made it above like a 45% win rate I don't think.

The problem with that is people do world bosses without the armor already. How does that incentivize people to do content they would not already be doing?

Regional metas or dynamic events are essentially there to help out with world completion. There isn't a good way to track them in the API even though events themselves have API exposure, so I'd imagine the backend code is probably just as convoluted. There have been problems with events rewarding achievements in the past. In addition, core tyria maps aren't exactly level 80 content since more than half the map is for leveling purposes.

If there is to be an openworld legendary armor it would probably be on level 80 oriented EOD maps anyway or less likely fractals/DRMs/strikes (which are instanced content so there would be backlash) because the existing maps have legendaries linked to them. Dungeons aren't going to receive continued investment so it is unlikely those would be included. That could be a selling point of the expansion , legendary armor for EOD openworld.

The current ongoing return to living story achievements for the amulet , otter, and dragonscale cape support what I'm saying: it's going to be primarily achievement based for any future legendaries.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Endilbiach.4132]

4 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

The problem with that is people do world bosses without the armor already. How does that incentivize people to do content they would not already be doing?

Regional metas or dynamic events are essentially there to help out with world completion. There isn't a good way to track them in the API even though events themselves have API exposure, so I'd imagine the backend code is probably just as convoluted. There have been problems with events rewarding achievements in the past. In addition, core tyria maps aren't exactly level 80 content since more than half the map is for leveling purposes.

If there is to be an openworld legendary armor it would probably be on level 80 oriented EOD maps anyway or less likely fractals/DRMs/strikes (which are instanced content so there would be backlash) because the existing maps have legendaries linked to them. Dungeons aren't going to receive continued investment so it is unlikely those would be included. That could be a selling point of the expansion , legendary armor for EOD openworld.

The current ongoing return to living story achievements for the amulet , otter, and dragonscale cape support what I'm saying: it's going to be primarily achievement based for any future legendaries.

Sure, but a lot of the focus of most of the content you're comparing this to is centered around a visual reward, as opposed to a purely utilitarian one.  In my original post I make it clear that I'm not even asking for a unique set of armor skins here, hell even making them all have the basic crafted ascended appearance would be more than what I'm asking for.  What I'm wanting is a suit of level 80 armor that's freely stat swappable, appearance transmutable, and can be used from the Legendary Armory.  I LITERALLY am only interested in the utility aspect of the armor as far as the core of my idea goes.

As for the rest of that.  How many Gen 1 Legendary collections require things that come from lvl 1-15 maps?  Shadow Behemoth for instance, or if you're doing Kraitkin III, you have to kill the Veteran Krait Witch in Caledon Forest.  It's not like there's no precedent for asking for lower level accomplishments for high tier gear.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Endilbiach.4132

[Infusion.7149]

Just now, Endilbiach.4132 said:

Sure, but a lot of the focus of most of the content you're comparing this to is centered around a visual reward, as opposed to a purely utilitarian one.  In my original post I make it clear that I'm not even asking for a unique set of armor skins here, hell even making them all have the basic crafted ascended appearance would be more than what I'm asking for.  What I'm wanting is a suit of level 80 armor that's freely stat swappable, appearance transmutable, and can be used from the Legendary Armory.  I LITERALLY am only interested in the utility aspect of the armor as far as the core of my idea goes.

Legendary WVW/PVP armor sets have no unique skin either.

[Endilbiach.4132]

Just now, Infusion.7149 said:

Legendary WVW/PVP armor sets have no unique skin either.

 

Well, gonna quibble with you that technically they do, it's just not unique from other wvw/pvp armor.  It's still a skin you can ONLY get from that game mode, which not everybody wants to play.  I get your point, but in making your point you're glossing over one of mine.

[Infusion.7149]

There's a reason why they stopped doing massive collections for the gen II weapons (hence only 4 of them) : it's because there was not enough people completing them to warrant the resources for four tiers of achievements as opposed to a trinket. You will note how basic Coalescence and Vision collections are in comparison to Aurora.

That would change with an influx of cash from selling EOD but expecting a new legendary armor just for core tyria is not likely to happen.

[Telgum.6071]

Raid is not as hard as you think, at least not the first 4 wings., which are 15 LIs per week, which means 10 weeks of raiding. Join one of those raiding communities that are doing trainings every day, or just find a guild.

 

Alacren and Bannerslave have a permanent spot in almost every wing 1-4 boss, except for Mathias maybe. Both are really easy characters to learn with very easy rotations. Although I must add, Bannerslave is expected to do some extra mechanics (which again, are not hard on w1-4).

 

I encourage you to do it, if you really want or need those legendary armors, you'll likely get it faster raiding than waiting for Anet to deliver an open world legendary armor, which I really doubt it will happen.

[Tails.9372]

4 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

The general game mode participation is already included as part of the gifts. Have you made gen 2 legendary weapons or gen 1 precursors? If you need map complete it's "general participation".

 

That's not really something that furthers general participation, the gifts for the map completion especially do a bad job in that regard. You do stuff once and then you're done with it so you usually don't have any real reason to participate in most of the content beyond that. Map currencies are in a similar situation as their limited application makes them pretty much useless for the most part.

 

 

4 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Who decided the system is not the issue?

 

The problems people commonly bring up in that regard. The issues people usually take with the system itself almost always boil down to them not liking that it limits how much skirmish claim tickets they can get per week. You yourslef only brought up that it doesn't "promote active participation" which based on the common complaints seems to be for most people an issue rooted in a lack of incentives rather than an issue with the system itself.

 

Now there are some things where the system itself could use some improvemts in redards to "promoteing active participation" like how "participation" doesn't actually mean participation but that's not something I see people take issue with.

 

 

4 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

And how exactly "wvw does better in that regard"?

 

It does a better job at keeping players engaged with the content. In PvE many players usually just ignore the vast majority of what's going on in the map while in WvW I constantly see people engage with stuff that would have been ignored in PvE. The system also keeps things cohesive and gives you a general sense of progression which is pretty much non existent in PvE.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Tails.9372

[Endilbiach.4132]

@Telgum.6071 At present I'm beginning to work on the wvw ones, as I'll get a full set of those before I ever develop the patience or basic skills required to complete a single raid.  In every MMO I've ever played (except the original The Secret World) I've detested the concept and implementation of raids.  When I watched them introduce it into GW2 I was, to put it mildly, wildly disappointed.

[Ashantara.8731]

2 hours ago, Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

Still waiting for PvE to get its second set since competitive gets two sets.

 

The two respective sets are similar apart from very minor differences (like a light glow). If you intend to reskin it, there is no point in going for the more (timewise) expensive version of any of the sets.

[Endilbiach.4132]

2 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

 

The two respective sets are similar apart from very minor differences (like a light glow). If you intend to reskin it, there is no point in going for the more (timewise) expensive version of any of the sets.

No, @Eloc Freidon.5692 is referring to the wvw and pvp sets.  Strictly speaking by your definition that's minimum 4 sets of skins, and 2 sets of legendary armor.  PVE still one has one path to legendary armor.  You'll note that they said "competitive" and not "competitive pvp" or "competitive wvw".

[Firebeard.1746]

1 hour ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

 

"If you're rich."

I currently have 12 gold.

then Spvp is probably your best bet. It'll give some raw cash too.

[Telgum.6071]

52 minutes ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

I'll get a full set of those before I ever develop the patience or basic skills required to complete a single raid.

Having made two full sets of raid legendary armor I totally disagree but, as a mostly WvW player I welcome you and hope you stay beyond the making of your armor 😁

[Zalavaaris.5329]

4 hours ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

It's less about time consumption and more about what you're being required to do with that time.  I don't MIND the time investment, I MIND the really restrictive nature of how you're being told to spend that time.

By restrictive do you mean having to do only 1 type of content? What I've seen some people do is they will do a variety of content. I have a friend who made 2 pieces of each set to save time. It worked for them and they had fun with it because the raid armor didn't take as much skill or effort. They just farmed the first couple wings in pugs. (They did pay for the achievement unlocks though). But hey whatever works to reach the goal I guess lol