Pistol elite?

[Wintermute.5408]

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Axe, Scepter ... technically not 'projectiles' I guess. I don't think that aspect really matters. I just don't see how a pistol doesn't tread on both of those to some extend. One is the extreme of direct DPS, the other is condi. 

I think any PVP/WvW player can explain, in great lengths and a lot of swearing, why projectiles matter.

[Obtena.7952]

16 minutes ago, Wintermute.5408 said:

I think any PVP/WvW player can explain, in great lengths and a lot of swearing, why projectiles matter.

I think we are a little off track here. When I say it doesn't matter, I'm talking about the fact that whether it's projectile or not is irrelevant to my point that I don't see how a pistol doesn't already overlap weapons that exist.  This pistol better be something VERY interesting to the espec to warrant any overlap it might have with existing weapons. This is why I'm not 'hot' on the pistol concept. 

Edited July 28, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Anchoku.8142]

Some points I feel are important besides the MH pistol are...

 

1. Arenanet would be foolish to allow another AoE weapon and utility set that supports stacking Necromancers so I think the pistol will be single-target.

 

2. Condition dps, if that is what the pistol does, can be either long range to replace staff, like axe did for power builds, or melee to provide a condi burst and higher dps than scepter.

 

3. Power dps would have to be longer range than axe but I do not see much potential for this option if it has to compete with staff, too. Dagger is the core melee power weapon and I do not see Arenanet abandoning it.

 

4. With a pistol, I expect at least one ammo skill.

 

5. The off-hand carrying a potion bottle, kit or bundle of any kind seems unlikely. Bundles are like transforms and replace both hands, iirc. If there is a "kit" like Engi has, it may be a full transform like Death Shroud masquerading as an Engi kit but leaving skills 6-10 available like Scourge does. Elixers may replace F-skills instead of a full second health bar but placing them in an off-hand is unnecessary.

 

6. Life Force will probably power some F-skills like Scourge F-skills. Engi F-skills, War Adrenaline, Mesmer Shatter and Thief Initiative costs may also offer clues to skill use.

 

7. Of the characteristics Necro is not supposed to have, mobility, stealth and stability, the first may be more likely. Reaper Shroud has a leap. Scourge has a teleport utility. Before elites, core Necro had its movement speeds increased multiple times. Finally adding a mobility weapon skill just feels more likely than stealth or stab, which was removed from core.

 

8. Necro does not benefit from Concentration. Something really radical would have to be introduced to change this. There is a chance of the new elite providing buffs but it is a small one. I would love to be proven wrong, here. Scourge is already a support specialization but it does demonstrate Arenanet is willing to break from Necro being a selfish profession. Scourge focuses on preserving ally health but boon-sharing is a gap in capability, even if there is no need for another buffing profession.

 

9. Poison is one of the problematic conditions in how it works great on other players but less so on mobs that do not heal. Bleeds have the same value in PvE and PvP but poison does not.

 

I should watch the Mesmer demo, again, and try to figure out what really makes it different from any other Mesmer build. Saying there are no clones does not explain what role the Mesmer will fill. No clones means fewer minions for the game to track.

[Anchoku.8142]

Deleted

Edited July 28, 2021 by Anchoku.8142
Tripple post due to network issue

[Anchoku.8142]

Deleted

Edited July 28, 2021 by Anchoku.8142
Tripple post due to network issue

[Dadnir.5038]

2 hours ago, Anchoku.8142 said:

2. Condition dps, if that is what the pistol does, can be either long range to replace staff, like axe did for power builds, or melee to provide a condi burst and higher dps than scepter.

 

How can you even expect ANet to make something that can compete against scepter? Scepter trait, Lingering curse, literally increase all scepter's base conditions duration by 50%, grant 200 condition damages while wielding a scepter and transform a single target skill into a 5 target skill with no loss...

 

Unless the pistol's conditions are OP, it won't be able to compete with scepter. And if pistol's conditions are at scepter's level or higher, parasitic contagion risk to become an issue.

 

3 hours ago, Anchoku.8142 said:

I should watch the Mesmer demo, again, and try to figure out what really makes it different from any other Mesmer build. Saying there are no clones does not explain what role the Mesmer will fill. No clones means fewer minions for the game to track.

 

There is an emphasis on the virtuoso's skills to be "blades" just like engineer often have an emphasis on some skills to be "explosions". If you look at engineer's explosive traitline, you quickly get an idea on how impactful such emphasis can be. As for the role, it's a long range wide area strike dps, which is unique enough for the mesmer.

[Aeolus.3615]

4 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I think we are a little off track here. When I say it doesn't matter, I'm talking about the fact that whether it's projectile or not is irrelevant to my point that I don't see how a pistol doesn't already overlap weapons that exist.  This pistol better be something VERY interesting to the espec to warrant any overlap it might have with existing weapons. This is why I'm not 'hot' on the pistol concept. 

 

It m8 be interesting for the specialization but not for players IF can be reflected, players DONT want counters in their builds.

If a single guardian pops WoR on the spam momment u will have half of a zerg QQ OMG its being reflects for the next 5-6secs, its to much for the low quality of players overall.

 

There are 2 major thing that players dont want or hate.

Counters

Trade offs.

GW2 brainwashed players to much  into if aint AOE and  cant be spammed, its not worth using.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Obtena.7952]

4 minutes ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

 

It m8 be interesting for the specialization but not for players IF can be reflected, players DONT want counters in their builds.

 

If a single guardian pops WoR on the spam momment u will have half of a zerg QQ OMG its being reflects for the next 5-6secs.

Little slow on the uptake here today ... I'm not discussing projectiles in competitive modes here. I'm clarifying why I'm not too excited about pistol ... and it's got nothing to do with projectiles. 

Edited July 28, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Aeolus.3615]

28 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Little slow on the uptake here today ... I'm not discussing projectiles in competitive modes here. I'm clarifying why I'm not too excited about pistol ... and it's got nothing to do with projectiles. 

 

Roger.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Panda.1967]

6 hours ago, KrHome.1920 said:

That's definitely necro green. If this is real then we get a pistol.

It is definitely real, I screenshot it right out of the First Look stream from yesterday.

[Panda.1967]

6 hours ago, KrHome.1920 said:

That's definitely necro green. If this is real then we get a pistol.

It is definitely real, I screenshot it right out of the First Look stream from yesterday.

[wolfsblut.9435]

Single target perma cripple and boon strip by double pistol....and utility aoe conditions that drains all live.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

I guess necro gets elixers. 

 

Are thrown elixers "projectiles" as in, can the be destroyed by swirling winds etc? 

[Nimon.7840]

13 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I think we are a little off track here. When I say it doesn't matter, I'm talking about the fact that whether it's projectile or not is irrelevant to my point that I don't see how a pistol doesn't already overlap weapons that exist.  This pistol better be something VERY interesting to the espec to warrant any overlap it might have with existing weapons. This is why I'm not 'hot' on the pistol concept. 

Well, they just introduced a 1200 range dagger, that pistol could be close range or long range as well.

Just because it's a pistol doesn't mean, that it's 900 range (I really hope that's not the case).

 

And the more I look at it, the more I think we will be getting a second weapon.

 

I changed some colour settings a bit:

 

 

https://tinyurl.com/e4vhykw

 

[Bunny.9834]

I'm getting Evil Scientist that uses "potions" and this new "jade technology". Possible replacing shroud and instead your F1 to F5 are now potions. 

[LucianDK.8615]

4 hours ago, Nimon.7840 said:

Well, they just introduced a 1200 range dagger, that pistol could be close range or long range as well.

Just because it's a pistol doesn't mean, that it's 900 range (I really hope that's not the case).

 

And the more I look at it, the more I think we will be getting a second weapon.

 

I changed some colour settings a bit:

 

 

https://tinyurl.com/e4vhykw

 

 

Interesting. Though my first thought is just a matching focus model. Definitely doesnt look like a second pistol. 

Its not like there is much choice in offhands left.  We have dagger, focus and warhorn baseline, with torch for scourge. 

 

Buuuuut, now that I think over it. Beside having a similar shape to a focus it could be an offhand mace.  Though warriors so far is the only one having offhand mace available.

 

Also, where did you find the base image? Ive heard it mentioned but cant find it.

[anduriell.6280]

It looks like a necro with bomb/potions utility skill.

The shroud is show as a vapor around the necro maybe it has an utility similar to the scourge but centered in the necro e-spec. 

 

 

[Teratus.2859]

What I find curious is that the Necromancer and it's elite spec's artwork is always an Asura.. what's up with that?

All my Necro's are human, where's the Human Necro representation? jk xD

[Kodama.6453]

5 minutes ago, Teratus.2859 said:

What I find curious is that the Necromancer and it's elite spec's artwork is always an Asura.. what's up with that?

All my Necro's are human, where's the Human Necro representation? jk xD

This is a fact for literally all classes. They always get represented by the same race.

 

Engineer is always represented as a Charr (even if for Holosmith, an Asura or Human would have been more appropriate thematically).

Ranger is always represented as a Sylvari.

 

There is really not much to it, it is just a consistent thing across all classes.

[Teratus.2859]

1 minute ago, Kodama.6453 said:

This is a fact for literally all classes. They always get represented by the same race.

 

Engineer is always represented as a Charr (even if for Holosmith, an Asura or Human would have been more appropriate thematically).

Ranger is always represented as a Sylvari.

 

There is really not much to it, it is just a consistent thing across all classes.

Yeah I know ^^
Be nice if they switched it up for every new spec though, just for variety 🙂

[Kodama.6453]

Just now, Teratus.2859 said:

Yeah I know ^^
Be nice if they switched it up for every new spec though, just for variety 🙂

At least it makes it easy to identify the engineer elite spec once we are shown a Charr silhouette, considering that it is the only class represented by this race. 😛

[Dadnir.5038]

5 hours ago, DragonSlayer.1087 said:

I'm getting Evil Scientist that uses "potions" and this new "jade technology". Possible replacing shroud and instead your F1 to F5 are now potions. 

Thought, why would a necromancer use puny potions when then are seasoned spellcasters.

[Nimon.7840]

1 hour ago, LucianDK.8615 said:

 

Interesting. Though my first thought is just a matching focus model. Definitely doesnt look like a second pistol. 

Its not like there is much choice in offhands left.  We have dagger, focus and warhorn baseline, with torch for scourge. 

 

Buuuuut, now that I think over it. Beside having a similar shape to a focus it could be an offhand mace.  Though warriors so far is the only one having offhand mace available.

 

Also, where did you find the base image? Ive heard it mentioned but cant find it.

Copied it from reddit. There are several post that did screenshot the picture from the Livestream

[Nimon.7840]

5 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Thought, why would a necromancer use puny potions when then are seasoned spellcasters.

I'm more leaning towards a jade tech spec, not potions

[Kodama.6453]

4 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Thought, why would a necromancer use puny potions when then are seasoned spellcasters.

This is exactly why I always doubted that plaguedoctor with elixirs will become a thing for necromancers as an elite spec.

If necromancers can already spread plagues with a simple gesture of their hand like plaguelands suggest, why would you go through the hustle of brewing elixirs then?

 

Maybe unpopular opinion, but I think the necromancer elite spec is less of a plaguedoctor and goes in the direction of a "hexslinger". Someone who uses cursed bullets for their attacks.

 

It just hit me that anet removed the skill "cursed bullet" in the past from deadeye... this would be the perfect opportunity to bring this thematic back through the necromancer. Which makes more sense to have cursed bullet in the first place.

The bullet icon we saw also could indicate exactly this: a bullet infused with deadly curses.