[Suggestion] How strong your borderland determines how effectives objectives are in EBG

[SweetPotato.7456]

What the title says, 

It is only logical when you don't care about your borderland, your camp supply in Eternal Battleground will be a lot less, If you hold another color's keep, you have to have the corresponding  color's borderland's keep as well, or your control of the Eternal Battleground Keep of that color will be extremely slow, if you have many borderlands objectives your Eternal Battleground camp supply delivery is greater and tiering up the objective of corresponding color objectives in eternal battleground will also be faster.

 

This way, people have to work on all maps so they can't cheat out of a higher tier by siege humping only in Eternal Battleground.

For the new Alliances System (what ever they are called)
How well your alliances performs will effect you as well. 

[Sviel.7493]

On one hand, I really like the idea of having meaningful intermap connections beyond simple scoring.  It could allow for more varied strategies than simply owning more stuff for more time.  If holding specific objectives is key, then more conflict is also generated around that objective specifically.  That means that servers are driven to fight each other rather than just racing to see who can flip the most stuff in the shortest amount of time.

On the other hand, I'm not thrilled about folks on EBG yelling at me to do stuff.

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

No.

 

I would rather not further incentivize blob play and server stacking. This will mean the largest server with the most coverage will get an added bonus for ktraining someones home BL after they have T3ed SMC.

[Dawdler.8521]

So you want the server that is weaker on hbl to become weaker everywhere. Right. That'll surely cause better balance. Kind of like kicking a crippled person to encourage them to be strong.

[Strider Pj.2193]

Yeah…. 
 

What others said..

 

This seems like an awfully poorly disguised attempt at punishing Mag for seigehumping SMC.

[subversiontwo.7501]

Like others have said, I wouldn't shut down suggestions for improvement just for the sake of it. It is good to have suggestions comming in. However, I also think that there are alot of strengths in the system (the general WvW design) that has lost visibility over the years, with the scoring issues and the polarisation of content that followed suit. So much that for many more recent players they may never have seen even, broad, balanced (ppk/ppt/scale) matchups where the mode is living up to its potential and intent. We're just not playing the game in that way very often anymore. That is also what may lead people to believe that the mode needs something specific, when most of those feelings can be sated by just repairing and reinforcing the core system(s).

 

That's how misconceptions begin to fester, like for example, when people believe it is better to monoblob for points while it has more to do with coverage pointlessness, available content, players focusing on other things and the like.

 

Edited August 13, 2021 by subversiontwo.7501

[Sviel.7493]

I don't think it's useful to dismiss suggestions because they won't work within the current mess of rampant population imbalance.  Nothing works well when populations vary so much--not even what currently exists.  If WvW is to survive, that prevailing problem will need to be eliminated or, more likely, mitigated.  We can trust that Anet knows this because they've taken steps to mitigate it in the past (Skirmishes) and plan to take more steps in the future (Alliances).

So I think we should consider this suggestion on it's merit within a world where population imbalance isn't such an over-bearing issue.  What does it accomplish?  How might players approach the game differently?

[Chaba.5410]

It would be better if green were given desert borderland and red got alpine.

Edited August 13, 2021 by Chaba.5410

[MedievalThings.5417]

I would rather they:

1. Remove all siege but rams and oil, limit rams to 3 per gate.

2. Remove all supply depots from SMC.  Still have to upgrade it with yaks.

3. Make walls usable by defenders.  One thought on this would require all skills to have a target and line of sight to use.  So the blob trying to spam the walls with red, would get a lot of "no line of sight" instead of free kills.

4. Not allow server transfers 1 week before relinks and the first 3 weeks after relinks.  This bandwagoning to stack and fight doors/outnumbered servers needs to stop.

5. Remove guild aura buffs during normal play, give the guild aura buff while outnumbered.  Without the icon the enemy can see, since that isn't something to advertise, despite everyone already knowing it when you don't give wxp on death.

6.  Remove the shrines and bloodlust.

7. Remove no downstate.

 

I agree that all these servers that refuse to defend anything but T3, siege capped SMC so they can lose and stay in lower tiers needs to be prevented.  But, that could be solved by just removing ppt and making ppk the only determinant in who wins.  It would prevent full blob servers from hiding in lower tiers since the only way they could lose would be to feed kills to the other team over and over.

[kash.9213]

That would likely tip over an already lopsided matchup. 

 

I really like Desert borderland map and I appreciate the artwork along with the mechanics of the structures there. As much as I like that map I almost never play there anymore because I only have so much time after work to run around with the usual crowd and mess around with my build. I'll most likely go straight to EB, read the maps, then grab supply and head out to a map where there's stuff going on. I'm not logging on to do work, those maps need to draw people to them but people here don't like anything that's not two entirely equal people or groups on flat ground with no obstacles so just leave dead maps be. 

[hoostrax.7284]

3 hours ago, Strider Pj.2193 said:

Yeah…. 
 

What others said..

 

This seems like an awfully poorly disguised attempt at punishing Mag for seigehumping SMC.

Sure enough, one of OP's most recent posts was whining about Mag in EBG

[ArchonWing.9480]

edit 2: rant removed due to misunderstanding the nature of this thread. The rant was regarding people that always cry about HBL being overrun and that people ignore it, even though EBG is also being overrun.

 

They also would never think of going to the enemy map to pressure it to force the enemy to go back, because that would require strategy.  But boo hoo, we can't even take an empty tower without a tag

 

Honestly, HBL wouldn't be such a problem if they weren't such a waste of queue space.

 

Stuff like that is why I turn off team chat; regardless of map. And yes I manage our HBL a lot.

 

edit: Oh wait, this is probably a player  that doesn't know there's 3 other maps It's not like your keep getting upgraded faster is going to change that, and the fact that you think it'll help is part of why you're getting farmed.  Well, that and if you haven't realized it after the 6th time, the 100th isn't going to change things either.  😉

Edited August 13, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[SweetPotato.7456]

7 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

edit 2: rant removed due to misunderstanding the nature of this thread. The rant was regarding people that always cry about HBL being overrun and that people ignore it, even though EBG is also being overrun.

 

They also would never think of going to the enemy map to pressure it to force the enemy to go back, because that would require strategy.  But boo hoo, we can't even take an empty tower without a tag

 

Honestly, HBL wouldn't be such a problem if they weren't such a waste of queue space.

 

Stuff like that is why I turn off team chat; regardless of map. And yes I manage our HBL a lot.

 

edit: Oh wait, this is probably a player  that doesn't know there's 3 other maps It's not like your keep getting upgraded faster is going to change that, and the fact that you think it'll help is part of why you're getting farmed.  Well, that and if you haven't realized it after the 6th time, the 100th isn't going to change things either.  😉

If you are so great, then you surely wouldn't mind taking care of all 4 maps. right.  

you just afraid to leave EBG. 

Edited August 14, 2021 by SweetPotato.7456

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

simply no. ppt is plainly a numbers issue. some people will always cry, and are better left doing their "daily crybaby".

 

if there was any necissity to ppt on the borders for whatever reasons, that would fully kill Wvw. u yet have the freedom to ppt for days, hours, weeks and therefore jail your server in a tier where it just gets outnumbered left and right, worst case tier1 even.

 

3 people of every single server that i've ever seen are able to take some empty tower. it just doesn't always happen. very often the big ppt blobber servers send double numbers of their zombies to "defend". therefore the 3 randoms get wiped and often won't keep wasting their time, which is legit.

 

IF anything, we need ways to avoid the one-way stuckness of tier one. maybe make every weeks #1 drop to tier 5, last spot. that'd at least avoid this super annoying tier1 situation to be forever.

 

i personally have 0 interest in running after every single puny objective or walking any dolly.

 

and, ik hard to understand for some people, the real reason that zergs and blob even more rarely wanna switch maps: u will be never able to get back on the other map again. especially on EBG, where sometimes there's huge queues of random ppt zombies

[ArchonWing.9480]

14 hours ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

If you are so great, then you surely wouldn't mind taking care of all 4 maps. right.  

you just afraid to leave EBG. 

I mean I spend the least time in EBG vs other maps but k, PPT in 2021.

 

Also I never said I was great; more than you weren't. Judging by your posts, it seems like you're the one much more afraid of leaving EBG or otherwise you wouldn't complain about people camping EBG. Need a tag to hold your hand on the other maps? Ask.

 

Like I said in my original post:

 

"Oh wait, this is probably a player  that doesn't know there's 3 other maps "

Edited August 14, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[SweetPotato.7456]

8 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

I mean I spend the least time in EBG vs other maps but k, PPT in 2021.

 

Also I never said I was great; more than you weren't. Judging by your posts, it seems like you're the one much more afraid of leaving EBG or otherwise you wouldn't complain about people camping EBG. Need a tag to hold your hand on the other maps? Ask.

 

Like I said in my original post:

 

"Oh wait, this is probably a player  that doesn't know there's 3 other maps "

You judged, that's your problem.

I do dislike not having my Eternal Battleground Keep.  

But this idea wasn't because of making Maguuma pay,  just because I made a reply on another thread doesn't make me a Maguuma hater immediately. A lot of the "strategy" Maguuma uses actually align with my own, occupying other's objective and fight on enemy territory,   

Some of them players don't listen [most of them are great], but why should they listen to me, right, when they have friends to play 2 hours with, logs out and come back next day to play 2 hours and keep the server DEAD.  

My suggestion makes everyone have to work towards (at least working toward) the same goal, making a great server/alliance.

BTW, not that I have to explained to you, but Desert Borderland is my favourite map (even though, I am where I am most needed, I don't choose where to be, I am where I NEED  to be), I can say proudly that I know all the good place to drop a siege for defend/attack. Can spot enemy coming to stoic BEFORE they arrive 😛 but it's all no use to my server cos they don't listen. But, if borderland or all the maps is related to how good each other is progressing, then players have to cooperate. That is my goal for this post. 

Edit:
To the confused person, when you can't change the players, change the system 😛 don't be confused.

Edited August 15, 2021 by SweetPotato.7456
Left out something.

[SweetPotato.7456]

16 hours ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

simply no. ppt is plainly a numbers issue. some people will always cry, and are better left doing their "daily crybaby".

 

if there was any necissity to ppt on the borders for whatever reasons, that would fully kill Wvw. u yet have the freedom to ppt for days, hours, weeks and therefore jail your server in a tier where it just gets outnumbered left and right, worst case tier1 even.

 

3 people of every single server that i've ever seen are able to take some empty tower. it just doesn't always happen. very often the big ppt blobber servers send double numbers of their zombies to "defend". therefore the 3 randoms get wiped and often won't keep wasting their time, which is legit.

 

IF anything, we need ways to avoid the one-way stuckness of tier one. maybe make every weeks #1 drop to tier 5, last spot. that'd at least avoid this super annoying tier1 situation to be forever.

 

i personally have 0 interest in running after every single puny objective or walking any dolly.

 

and, ik hard to understand for some people, the real reason that zergs and blob even more rarely wanna switch maps: u will be never able to get back on the other map again. especially on EBG, where sometimes there's huge queues of random ppt zombies

PPT? why is it called ppt if all maps mattered?  

Edited August 15, 2021 by SweetPotato.7456

[ArchonWing.9480]

2 hours ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

You judged, that's your problem.

I do dislike not having my Eternal Battleground Keep.  

 

You're getting farmed, that's your problem. Not on Mag, or facing Mag so no problem here.

 

I could care less if I don't have my EBG keep, and they're just farming dummies that walk single file in and die. All I can do is tell them to stop feeding.

 

Also, Mags not even winning this week.

 

Rest tl;dr

Edited August 15, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[displayname.8315]

49 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Also, Mags not even winning this week.

Uh Um, correction.  Mag is leading by 3,300 kills sire.  ET is doing their thing but are up against the T1 PPT blobbers and you know how PPT gameplay goes its strictly a numbers game for them.  Even so a healthy KDR geeg

 

https://i.imgur.com/cwC0Ipu.jpg

[SweetPotato.7456]

1 hour ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

You're getting farmed, that's your problem. Not on Mag, or facing Mag so no problem here.

 

I could care less if I don't have my EBG keep, and they're just farming dummies that walk single file in and die. All I can do is tell them to stop feeding.

 

Also, Mags not even winning this week.

 

Rest tl;dr

You assumed lmao,
I never fight at spawn when Maguuma being lazy kitten not caring about their borderland. 

[vilkanor.3072]

op's idea is not bad, but I don't think it would be the solution he think it is. As others have pointed out, it would also introduce new problems.

 

The main issue in wvw is that, on paper, it would require an highly trained population that is both effective on the battlefield and capable of coming up with valid strategies. The reality, however, is "PUGS everywhere": aside from wvw abilities, veterans aren't incentivized in any way, they are powerless while watching their map burn to a lethal mixture of ineptitude and laziness.

 

Noobs pulling SM tactics with no hostiles, people jumping over gates, warclaw teleport glitch, invincible toon hacks, sieges left to disappear, and queues...queues on maps where all/most people are afk. It would be really nice to get an official answer that tries to address these issues, but we know we haven't got one in nine years so...

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

about the tactics pullers ... that is very very very likely simply trolls, not new players. it wouldn't happen that highly frequent otherwise. best to just ignore it really.

 

@SweetPotato.7456 because the structures themselves don't matter for people who mainly looking for nice fights. u need them to fight grossly overnumbers, okay.

 

but otherwise ... i often actively decide to ignore calls, especially since too many servers my accounts are on always again go towards tier1... and tier1 is the worst place to be, together with t5 (t5 should not even exist, but yeah). like, i would like to defend stuff, but once in tier1 and people ppt 24/7 till their hands melt, i am kinda pressured to avoid any ppt, so they eventually wipe and lose ppt score, otherwise the matchups getting worse with each week and more experienced players will again transfer off, leading the fights to become increasingly worse and worse.

that's the cycle, and probably always has been.

[ArchonWing.9480]

9 hours ago, displayname.8315 said:

Uh Um, correction.  Mag is leading by 3,300 kills sire.  ET is doing their thing but are up against the T1 PPT blobbers and you know how PPT gameplay goes its strictly a numbers game for them.  Even so a healthy KDR geeg

 

https://i.imgur.com/cwC0Ipu.jpg

 

This thread is about PPT; maybe we don't care about that, but still.

 

Point is that OP is complaining that Mag can win just by taking EB when that's just not happening unless they were going to win either way (population) or the enemy serves mass feed with kills. In addition OP, claims that they're not getting killed anyways, so not sure what the concern is.

 

In any case, it's not hard with any semblance of organization to push out properly. I've been on servers on both ends of the equation. Typically the reason EB gets spawned camp is they don't go out together, they lack ability to pressure, and most likely they bring pve builds.

 

So it's a non-solution to a useless problem.

 

@kamikharzeeh.8016

 

Yea I ignore most callouts myself, unless it's from trusted players or can get a decent fight out of it. But the scouts on my server are often awful, and seem to not worry about wasting others' time. I pretty much never take EWP unless it's from a guildie, a trusted person, or the link lol.

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

that is what i mean. and if u try to explain, people become salty and say "then scout yourself" or sth alike 😄 by time u know, whose calls u trust... and also when calls are fake or pranking or queue-busters.

 

and unprecise calls of people one does not know, yeah... people shouldn't wonder if barely anyone reacts.

 

potatoe has a pretty ppt-ish view on Wvw. for me it never is a win, if all we do is to have a huge ppt score. as ppt is still having at least 50% done during the EU off-hours.

 

and since there is not real competition, as there is nothing u can win (remembering the silver or gold dolly statues @ alpine spawns from the old Wvw tournaments) ... i see zero competition. and no prize. so how on earth can ppt score be taken serious, how can anyone feel to "win" with ppt?

[Jilora.9524]

9 hours ago, displayname.8315 said:

Uh Um, correction.  Mag is leading by 3,300 kills sire.  ET is doing their thing but are up against the T1 PPT blobbers and you know how PPT gameplay goes its strictly a numbers game for them.  Even so a healthy KDR geeg

 

https://i.imgur.com/cwC0Ipu.jpg

No, that's not winning. That's Mag deciding to make most kills their objective while no other server plays that way. It's would be like SoS saying we won at 3am because they own everything or TC for dying the most. Winning the match is winning. Sure it don't matter so you can play however you want and make some objective internally but that isn't oh Mag won cause they had the most kills but dropped to t2. If you like focusing on kills great or k-train off hours or run from spawn over and over to die in 8 seconds have fun but don't try and act like you can change what winning is cause you decided to play a different way