Willbender is OP

[Neva Eilhart.5347]

44 minutes ago, otto.5684 said:

Talking from PvE standpoint, it does not need better, it needs to be distinctly different. If we end with GS + MH sword/oH focus, utilities, SoJ, SoB and one discretionary utility, that is nearly identical. This would be incredibly boring and redundant. Compare this to how different FB is from DH and core.
 

I hope I am wrong. Will know soon enough. 

 

This. I was hoping for the WB to bring back old underused weapon kits such as the Hammer. If it ends up being only a matter of a number of attacks you can deal in a short span, it favors GS far too much which is already used in pretty much all builds.

I don't care about numbers/traits for now as they'll get tweaked, but the general feeling of the spec seemed refreshing at first, and ended up to my eyes being nothing more than a core guardian on meditation steroids.

[Will.9785]

I don't need to play it to know that the trait that makes you invulnerable when virtue of courage is up, combined with the mobility skills, combined with renewed focus is OP.  Dive comps will absolutely be a thing.

 

You have access to 6 or 7 mobility skills with the class.  So you can engage with virtue of courage, hit stuff while having 10+ stacks of stability (which means you probably aren't getting locked down unless the stab is corrupted), then dash out, then you can cast renewed focus and do it again.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Will.9785

[The Boz.2038]

11 hours ago, Lattekahvi.2347 said:

not really, the only usable trait was that sustain one in adept line and we all know that it will be nerfed to 10 healing power while keeping the outgoing heal reduction atleast in spvp and wvw where sustain actually means something

AHAHAHAHA!
Cal literally pointed that one out as the weak runt of the bunch. Wow.

[Trejgon.9367]

13 hours ago, AXLIB.8425 said:

ah yes, virtuoso and its overlapping and useless trait line is definitely broken.

"useless trait line" that includes, 100% to inflict bleeding on critical hit (for reference, necros and ranger equivalent of this trait is 33% chance to proc same amount of bleed on criticals), aegis on every shatt... bladesong, and a trait that punishes people in multiple ways for trying to hit virtuoso when it has that aegis up (and not only aegis, as evades count)

 

All of that coupled with an espec that already deals a truck worth of damage just from skills alone.

 

I am standing by my stance that on paper all three of them are subject to heavy nerfing as soon as expac drops (some maybe even before that)

[Aeolus.3615]

I cant see the trait lines only the skills lol...

[Sobx.1758]

8 hours ago, Zeph.5927 said:

I wouldn't bother. It seems he's been going around and basically bashing anyone and anything that isn't portraying the new expansion (and past expansions for that matter) in an absolutely glowing manner.

Ah yes, so when he ended with "it's just not worth it", he really meant that the whole espec is good, but he'll play it without picking traits, because they're not worth it 🙃  Nice deflection, because you don't like the facts you see.

[Hogwarts Zebra.8597]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Ah yes, so when he ended with "it's just not worth it", he really meant that the whole espec is good, but he'll play it without picking traits, because they're not worth it 🙃  Nice deflection, because you don't like the facts you see.

If we're talking about facts, literally everything the OP said is false/misconstrued. 

 

Some people will always hate guardian no matter what, simply because "it's guard". This thread is an example of such views. There is no point pretending this is even a discussion--it is nothing more than a hate thread, and I will not touch this thread again until I see some valid facts. 

 

[Sobx.1758]

4 minutes ago, Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

If we're talking about facts, literally everything the OP said is false/misconstrued. 

Oh, no worries, I'm not trying to say anything's broken before we actually get to play it in the game.

But then again, that doesn't change anything I wrote above.

 

Edited August 14, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[AXLIB.8425]

2 hours ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

"useless trait line" that includes, 100% to inflict bleeding on critical hit (for reference, necros and ranger equivalent of this trait is 33% chance to proc same amount of bleed on criticals), aegis on every shatt... bladesong, and a trait that punishes people in multiple ways for trying to hit virtuoso when it has that aegis up (and not only aegis, as evades count)

 

All of that coupled with an espec that already deals a truck worth of damage just from skills alone.

 

I am standing by my stance that on paper all three of them are subject to heavy nerfing as soon as expac drops (some maybe even before that)

Bleed on crit is just sharper image from dueling trait line, so if you are doing condi, for some reason you will be needing 100% crit chance, which is almost impossible for mesmer unless you sacrifice majority of you damage to get more precision even with the new trait. 

 

Punished multiple ways, you mean that magnificent 400 damage? Or do you mean quickness and fury that is easily applied by self just by using core trait line? Because only hitting .036 percent of a guardian health and nothing else is so going to make this spec dominate.

 

Dealing tons of damage, surly you are not getting that impression from the first livestream elite show case? Because if so then I have good news, the damage is already nerfed by 40%

Edited August 14, 2021 by AXLIB.8425

[Downstate.4697]

Willbender needs to survive between bursts and will get heavily punished by ranged dps. Personally i see xx/sh with sw/sw or gs. It would play more like spellbreaker than thief. Diviner looking juicy for it. Too bad it will have the same problems as ele in pvp with not having the stats it needs to be optimal.

[Trejgon.9367]

54 minutes ago, AXLIB.8425 said:

Bleed on crit is just sharper image from dueling trait line, so if you are doing condi, for some reason you will be needing 100% crit chance, which is almost impossible for mesmer unless you sacrifice majority of you damage to get more precision even with the new trait. 

 

Don't quite need 100% crit chance for this to be strong - especially since there are traits within virtuoso itself that helps with it.

Ranger and necromancer do not get all that much more precision anywhere and somehow thye can only get 33% chance, instead of guaranteed (and sigils that have guaranteed procs on crit have hefty icd).

 

Good point with tho with mesmer already having exact same trait in other line, so now they can do it twice.

 

56 minutes ago, AXLIB.8425 said:

Punished multiple ways, you mean that magnificent 400 damage? Or do you mean quickness and fury that is easily applied by self just by using core trait line? Because only hitting .036 percent of a guardian health and nothing else is so going to make this spec dominate.

 

1. get hit back (we are yet to see scaling on that),

2. quickness and fury - just because "it is easilly applied by self just bu using core trait line" does not nullify that point.

3. give that mesmer freebie blade charge so it can throw another aegis up for freebies.

 

59 minutes ago, AXLIB.8425 said:

Dealing tons of damage, surly you are not getting that impression from the first livestream elite show case? Because if so then I have good news, the damage is already nerfed by 40%

 

No, that was impression just from this new stream where it was shown to be able to one-shot harbinger amount of hp before blight comes into play even.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

2 minutes ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

No, that was impression just from this new stream where it was shown to be able to one-shot harbinger amount of hp before blight comes into play even.

Dont worry harbinger will be OP too. Up to 37k hp, healing 1000+ hp per second from infinite shroud with big ccs and mobility. Def needs a nerf

[Ragnarox.9601]

willbender in pvp and wvw 🙂

 

we are too op

[Trejgon.9367]

34 minutes ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Dont worry harbinger will be OP too. Up to 37k hp, healing 1000+ hp per second from infinite shroud with big ccs and mobility. Def needs a nerf

 

I am unsure if you are serious here or not but in case you were serious in here, I would like to point out that my first post in this thread stated that on paper at first glance all three looks broken and that they will be getting nerfed a number of times each 😉 

 

That being said while to formulate any solid opinion on either of them, I am going to need to see how they interact with their core classes, and give it more thought, in case of willbender after giving it deepd though and rethinking it I think that it may not be as bad as they made it look, with main nerfs being needed on cooldowns on utilis (like that 15s cd stunbreak)

[AXLIB.8425]

1 hour ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

 

Don't quite need 100% crit chance for this to be strong - especially since there are traits within virtuoso itself that helps with it.

Ranger and necromancer do not get all that much more precision anywhere and somehow thye can only get 33% chance, instead of guaranteed (and sigils that have guaranteed procs on crit have hefty icd).

 

Good point with tho with mesmer already having exact same trait in other line, so now they can do it twice.

 

 

1. get hit back (we are yet to see scaling on that),

2. quickness and fury - just because "it is easilly applied by self just bu using core trait line" does not nullify that point.

3. give that mesmer freebie blade charge so it can throw another aegis up for freebies.

 

 

No, that was impression just from this new stream where it was shown to be able to one-shot harbinger amount of hp before blight comes into play even.

we already have numbers for scaling, they are running all zerker gears, the the damage on the thing is 395. quickness and fury easily applied by core trait line means a lot of quickness and fury applied from that trait will go to waste. and the it give mesmer freebie glade charge on dodge is already a grandmaster trait on duelling as well.

 

100 crit chance is only on blades while ranger and necro's trait are both on all critical hits, and necro also increase bleed duration while ranger is on pet as well. not to mention every single blade skill have no condi on its own with the exception of f2, and that condition is also just confusion, one of the worst dot condition in the game. so since you won't have any other source of condition if you are running blades, you will actually be needing that 100 crit, and with full viper and with the added fury, you will only have 65 crit chance, so 35 percent of the time you are not applying condi for a condi build.

 

the new stream literately only showcased the trait for virtuoso, so i don't know where are you seeing that damage able to one shot harbinger with maximum blight. they just reused the old stream.

Edited August 14, 2021 by AXLIB.8425

[Bunny.9834]

The new specs will always be OP to start with. It's to make sure it's "fun" and "powerful" to play with especially for casual players. 

Then the nerf bat will say hello to even things out. 

 

I'm not too worried about this. 

[montecristo.1324]

I already can see bunker decapper guard in pvp.

The fact that you can not die + the improved self heal + all the core stuff from guard it will turn out in the first bunker capable to move from side to mid, help the tf with minor heals, combo fields, cleansing and cc, and be able to follow the thief back to the node and be super tanky

[SlateSloan.3654]

Ask not what your Willbender can do for you — ask what you can do for your Willbender ^^

[Acyk.9671]

deleted

Edited April 3, 2022 by Acyk.9671

[shrew.3059]

Although Willbender does seem slightly overpowered in the abstract, it may be hard to properly evaluate it without seeing all the EoD especs and understanding how they interact. One of the things that makes the game hard to balance is that the game modes place a lot of constraints on what works (e.g., melee boon-clustering in PvE, zerg balls in WvW, node control in PvP) so the professions/specs that end up being meta are the ones that can serve those overarching goals best.

 

A selfish mobile Guardian might be amazing in a lot of ways, but if it doesn’t output max DPS from melee in PvE, doesn’t enhance the Zerg ball, or cap-decap better than Thieves, it seems like a niche roaming or open world alternative rather than a true gamechanger. We’ll see…

[Exile.8160]

1 hour ago, Acyk.9671 said:

You guys are blinded by the mobility, this e-spec does not look OP to me (still need to be evaluated though). I actually find it pretty weak as it stands and the trait line seems quite uninspired.

 

- Those trade offs are massive. 

- No traits provide a single bonus from physical 

- There is a lack of soft CC

- Little amount of sustain outside of virtues.

- The 2 hard CC won't do damage because of "balance" and probably won't be played.

- No cleanse

 

Relying on the idea of spamming virtues to get sustain SEEMS a bit counter intuitive. I know for sure i'll have to play a couple of meditations to sustain during down times and maybe kite with scepter to charge those virtues.

 

We will see...

 

EDIT: where is the retal mechanic? it's the perfect e-spec to get 1 skill or trait providing something equivalent

I agree, ppl are blinded by the mobility. The only way I see this spec ever doing anything( in pvp) is with meditations. U less physicals get an actual trait the guves them either healing or condi cleanse when use which they badly need. 

[Heinel.6548]

I mean, the near thief level of fight reset capability essentially means the spec is invincible. You cannot die no matter what, in every game mode. That alone makes it worth it for some. Heck, it might even be fun.

 

Elite specs is and should never be replacements for each other. DH and FB have their roles and they should keep those roles for PvE and WvW. WB looks like it'll excel at conquest and roaming that's currently a void in the guardian toolkit. Looks like it fits in just fine.

 

[Zoser.7245]

13 hours ago, shrew.3059 said:

Although Willbender does seem slightly overpowered in the abstract, it may be hard to properly evaluate it without seeing all the EoD especs and understanding how they interact. One of the things that makes the game hard to balance is that the game modes place a lot of constraints on what works (e.g., melee boon-clustering in PvE, zerg balls in WvW, node control in PvP) so the professions/specs that end up being meta are the ones that can serve those overarching goals best.

 

A selfish mobile Guardian might be amazing in a lot of ways, but if it doesn’t output max DPS from melee in PvE, doesn’t enhance the Zerg ball, or cap-decap better than Thieves, it seems like a niche roaming or open world alternative rather than a true gamechanger. We’ll see…

Oh yes, it can be improved.  Maybe they should add an "extra" effect at the end of two of its mobility utilities that doesn't require a target or one virtue and utility or two virtues. So where he lands, end its dash or teleport with those skills also place a  trap that is instantly activated revealing up to 5 - 10 enemies in a 900 radius for 6 seconds.  Those two skills should also trigger future or existent runes and sigils that interact with traps if you want take some profit of them too.  😉 Thinking about it, also add to is elite place an extra auto-triggered frost trap that chills enemies for 1.5s each second for 4 seconds duration and a 420 radius. 😏  That should add Willbender a bit more utility  and also help its allies against stealth enemies and be a less selfish. 🧐

 

👽

Edited August 16, 2021 by Zoser.7245

[Acyk.9671]

deleted

Edited April 3, 2022 by Acyk.9671

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

People: ewww, the upcoming e-speces are weak and lackluster, i'm dissappoint.
Me, an intellectual knowing that you can also equip 2 more trait lines and have access to all core mechanics, not mentioning access to weapons, runes, sigils, armor stats: *laughs in broken e-speces*