Legendary armor by pve exploration [Merged]

[Linken.6345]

6 minutes ago, Imba.9451 said:

What does msg mean in that context?

I mean, a friend and me (he has at least SOME Raid experience) tried to organize a group last weekend. It took 40 minutes until we were ready to go. That really wasn't any fun. During that time, some people dropped out because it took too long. I can't blame them.

 

The current system does have flaws when it comes to new players trying to enter raids. It`s a long and stoney road until they finally have enough LI or KP to enter regular lfg groups. Having at least a tab for "Training groups" would help alot I think.

msg means the message you put in when advertising your lfg.

Were you type in what you need to fill the squad.

[Zalavaaris.5329]

6 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Now that's an interesting idea.

Yea that feels like a must, a separate spot for raid training. Give the community tools to do it without having to go to a special discord. I love this idea!

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

19 hours ago, Vilin.8056 said:

You've searched at the wrong place.

Training squads no longer listed on raid LFG due to two following factors:

1. Due to anonymous nature of public pugs, it's impossible to track training progress

2. Half of those joins are usually looking for an low requirement raid kill instead of training, they come poorly prepared from the build level, and will not have patience for long sessions. 

Therefore most adaptive trainings has moved onto guilds channel. I usually suggest asking on Aerodome mapchat.

 

Vale guardian's teleport circles always comes with a thundering sound effect for 3~4 seconds straight before the teleport activates.  The thundering sound will never get glitched.

 

One best way of group training the blue circle is having your training team stack onto the Green Guardian during on the prefight without attacking it to observe the pattern, instead of training it on the real boss.

 

Which is why most players has moved onto guild based training.

 

Which I always strongly advice against trainers on making long speech explanations, all they do is confuse new players.

My approach instead was to bring up 2 major mechanics for the team to focus upon, and the less prioritized mechanics will be self explanatory after a few tries.

 

You know... I highly suspect you started writing your response to my post before reading the entire thing.  You told me not to check the LFG for training runs in a post where I spent 5 paragraphs talking about the raid training discord.  I'm just wondering why you didn't get to that part, realize this, and then go back and either amend or abandon the first section you wrote there.

 

Anyway, the Vale Guardian audio bug is fairly well known.  The tank in my static gets hit by it all the time, too.  Best explanation I can give is this:  the sizzling sound that preludes the teleportation circles is set up so it stacks up on itself.  So, to prevent blasting out people's ear drums, the sound they make is set to low priority.  Phase 1 Guardian there's very few circles, so they're very quiet and can be easily drown out by audio and visual noise.  Phase 2 Guardian there's a whole lot of blue circles, which makes enough of a sizzling noise to drown out everything else.  Thus, this "bug" only happens during phase 1. 

 

The whole "avoid long explanations" thing is great in theory and all, but there's quite a few bosses where it doesn't work.  The longest I ever spent explaining a mechanic was Sabitha's cannons.  There were a lot of people coming in and out of the group, I suspect because everyone saw what I was dealing with, but collectively I must've been typing for 35 minutes straight just to try and explain how the sapper bombs worked.  This was to explain just the sapper bomb, and even after demonstrating it behind us they didn't get the whole cannon order right.  It isn't just Sabetha that requires all of this.  Dhuum, Grenth Statues, Matthias, Xera, Deimos, Qadim 1 and 2, Vale Guardian, Soulless Horror, each one practically requires a book to explain.  I'm just glad I found a static before I got to pug-hosting dhuum, or I'd still be there to this day.  

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

10 hours ago, Captain Kuro.8937 said:

You could give an auto-LFG , if you don't mind .

That way , i can i can have fun (and i don't have to "please" other guys) ,

aim toward the Raid set and don't have to resign from my job as a Pizza delivery guy , or my 2-year school as Tech Support (should i choose Databases or Router related problems?) or the afternoon Nurse school (which  empathy is not my thing  and either 3D designing or naval accounting , may come) , in order to play specific times per day .

 

Or place the Raid bosses  in the open World and limits the player to 10 in each map .

So i can avoid LFG and every 2 hours i can play in a relaxed way , even if i fail .

ESO has an auto queue system

Tanks Queue in seconds, Healers in minutes, DPS in hours.  Multiple times people get voted out for low DPS or underperforming in their role.

Have fun dealing with that here if it ever  gets added.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

8 hours ago, Captain Kuro.8937 said:

In 20 days when schools are open (+work)  , i won't have .

Where will you be ? Trying to say people they don't deserve the Legendary or they shouldn't have an easy mode ?

 

I only dip in and out of these conversations, but I'm starting to suspect that people haven't legitimately explained any of this.  So, once gain, I find myself dawning the training cap, jacket, and codpiece.

 

The difficulty of the content is itself the content.  That's one of the problems with having an easy mode.  Some of these battles are works of art.  To enfeeble their attacks to the point of triviality, to get rid of mechanics so nobody has to pay attention anymore, to lower the enemy's health so low that they can be obliterated effortlessly just to appeal to the lowest common denominator, it all cheapen the experience.  They won't look as good, they won't feel as good, and ultimately the rewards are also cheapened.  Envoy armor is so valuable not only because it can swap stats or look cool, but because it is gated behind raids.  This makes it a status symbol, and also a just reward for braving the most difficult content the game has to offer.  This is partly the philosophy behind the Soulsborne series of games.  Yes they are hard, but it wouldn't feel as good to succeed if they weren't hard.  An achievement is only as valuable as the obstacles overcome to get it.

 

There is also the part on the developers to elevate the players.  It isn't openly discussed that often, but one of the things that I and the devs lament about GW2 is that most players are bad at this game.  Like, really bad.  The difference in performance between the lower levels and the upper levels is an order of magnitude.  When I walk around in full damage build with the competence to use it, I am engaging this game with the same effectiveness as a team of 2-3 average players.  This global lack of skill means that the developers can't really flex the limits of the combat system.  One of the best ways to get people to really learn what GW2 has to offer is to put a high bar somewhere in the game for players to discover.  This will encourage growth in player skill, but that growth can only come if you put the expectations upon them.  An easy mode would remove all of this.

 

One of the best fights to explain what I mean by this is Matthias Gabriel.  He's one of my favorite raid bosses, because he isn't a DPS race.  Matthias is a mechanics race.  You need everything: reflects, cleanses, CC, movement skills, heals, and damage at multiple distances.  It's like a fractal boss on steroids and red bull.  His fight is simple in concept, but utter bedlam once things go underway.  If there were to be an easy mode for Matthias, you'd essentially have to destroy the entire fight.  Building him for the average player means you can't make having reflects, cleanses, CC, movement skills, or damage at multiple distances mandatory.  All of that is the confusing hard stuff that the average player just doesn't understand.  The whole thing would become a generic tank and spank, if even that.  For the devs, it is like being given a paintbrush, and being told that they shouldn't paint the Mona Lisa because the average person just won't understand it.  

 

-----

 

The auto-LFG problem is far more tangible:  There are no roles.  The raid fights are too complex, as are the builds.  Take healers, for an example.  You have the minstrel chrono healer, the druid healer, the healbrand, the tempest healer, the renegade healer, heal scourge, and now the scrapper healer.  These healers can't be interchanged.  Each one has strengths and weaknesses that are good for different fights, and also require vastly different team comps to build around them.  I.E. The Chrono, Firebrand, and Scrapper give quickness, the renegade gives alacrity, the rest give might, each one has a plethora of different boons and unique buffs while also having their own unique utilities and environmental effects to handle different mechanics.  This means that each one is good in some fights, and bad for others.

 

It's the same with the bosses.  Sometimes you need 1 tank, sometimes 2, sometimes none.  Healers number anywhere from 1 healing tank, to 2 non-tank healers.  Etc. and so on with most traditional roles.  Putting 10 random people together with loosely defined roles and no prior consultation isn't going to end well.  Whether doing PUG runs or static runs, you'll see the same thing: players swapping out professions and builds between fights to bring what is best.  Finally, these roles change over time.  What gets played and what doesn't changes as strategies evolve and balance updates are made.  Any categories that the devs place are going to be rendered obsolete every 6 months.

 

Raiding is as much a social obstacle as it is a mechanical one.  You need to organize, and that actually requires organization skills.  The commander forming the group needs to know what  each profession brings, what is needed for each encounter, and how to shape the squads based on who performs each action.  That's all really important stuff that can't be handled by an automated LFG.  A bunch of randoms will fail without a commanding head to handle all of the analysis and directions, even if the roles are properly filled somehow.  Heck, it would be hard enough for people who know what they're doing to make it in an automated LFG, let alone a bunch of players with no idea what they're doing.

 

All in all, it would be a lot of effort to overcome a problem that the players solved years ago: we put what we're looking for into the LFG/discord pings, we talk to each other, and we agree to join static groups where our roles are pre-defined in advance.  

[Vilin.8056]

3 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

 

You know... I highly suspect you started writing your response to my post before reading the entire thing.  You told me not to check the LFG for training runs in a post where I spent 5 paragraphs talking about the raid training discord.  I'm just wondering why you didn't get to that part, realize this, and then go back and either amend or abandon the first section you wrote there.

 

Anyway, the Vale Guardian audio bug is fairly well known.  The tank in my static gets hit by it all the time, too.  Best explanation I can give is this:  the sizzling sound that preludes the teleportation circles is set up so it stacks up on itself.  So, to prevent blasting out people's ear drums, the sound they make is set to low priority.  Phase 1 Guardian there's very few circles, so they're very quiet and can be easily drown out by audio and visual noise.  Phase 2 Guardian there's a whole lot of blue circles, which makes enough of a sizzling noise to drown out everything else.  Thus, this "bug" only happens during phase 1. 

 

The whole "avoid long explanations" thing is great in theory and all, but there's quite a few bosses where it doesn't work.  The longest I ever spent explaining a mechanic was Sabitha's cannons.  There were a lot of people coming in and out of the group, I suspect because everyone saw what I was dealing with, but collectively I must've been typing for 35 minutes straight just to try and explain how the sapper bombs worked.  This was to explain just the sapper bomb, and even after demonstrating it behind us they didn't get the whole cannon order right.  It isn't just Sabetha that requires all of this.  Dhuum, Grenth Statues, Matthias, Xera, Deimos, Qadim 1 and 2, Vale Guardian, Soulless Horror, each one practically requires a book to explain.  I'm just glad I found a static before I got to pug-hosting dhuum, or I'd still be there to this day.  

I'm aware of the whole guild discord advertisement below, and it doesn't change your first half of statement by generalizing difficulties of finding a raid training, simply because due to looking at the wrong channel.

 

I have tanked VG since the beginning of 2016, and I had to multi tasking a solo Chrono quickness/alac rotation on top of tanking mechanism, without the safety of Minstrel gears and only a single Druid healer for sustain.

Believe me I know that sizzing(or thundering) sound inside and out and have made every mistakes to find the solution.

The audio drawn out was a flaw but was never seen as a bug itself. because is still present on every activation, it was less of a issue in the old times because headset was mandatory for raid and training tanks were usually advised to turn their music off, therefore there was enough clarity in each audio cue. As the raid moved onto the no-green strategy, these details were dismissed as the boss was being regarded as being too easy.

 

One thing I have learned to done really well is is to simplify information over the course of time, all squad formation is a race against time because fatigue is a constant enemy.

 

I have also made enough Sabetha training than I could ever count of. I usually have the trainees practice throwing green bomb(bind keys) before the elevator platform for 3~5 minutes before moving onto the main stage. Tell them to lock on the boss but to focus sight on the mini map, so they can throw bombs onto that one platform behind commander tag with a red mark, whenever the clock hits :00 / :30 (or :55 / :25 for pad jumpers), this way we can move onto the action in under 10 minutes with a 3:7 Vet/New ratio.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Vilin.8056

[Captain Kuro.8937]

13 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

ESO has an auto queue system

Tanks Queue in seconds, Healers in minutes, DPS in hours.  Multiple times people get voted out for low DPS or underperforming in their role.

Have fun dealing with that here if it ever  gets added.

If that becomes the case , then the stance of the company will change toward DPS addons , and endorse  the Kitty Golem.

(kitty ...Kitty ... like the person who offers easy specs  and address  as third person ?)

 

On topic:

Allow people to get Legendary Gear from Open world and it will be their choice to calculate if the cost vs effort , is worth it .

The market will spike for 4 months  , and then it will drop down from over-farming in various old maps

Edited August 29, 2021 by Captain Kuro.8937

[mindcircus.1506]

It's almost like we got Battledrone back.

[Sobx.1758]

14 hours ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

Yea that feels like a must, a separate spot for raid training. Give the community tools to do it without having to go to a special discord. I love this idea!

Yup, a rather simple change that can make it easier for people to find the squads they're looking for, personally I don't really see any downside.

[Sobx.1758]

3 hours ago, Captain Kuro.8937 said:

On topic:

Allow people to get Legendary Gear from Open world and it will be their choice to calculate if the cost vs effort , is worth it .

The market will spike for 4 months  , and then it will drop down from over-farming in various old maps

Or you can play the required content to get the rewards, instead of lying about not having time while you're spending hours on the forum when you could play as we've already established above 😛 

Edited August 29, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Dante.1763]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

Or you can play the required content to get the rewards, instead of lying about not having time while you're spending hours on the forum when you could play as we already established above 😛 

sensible chuckle.

[Gehenna.3625]

SWTOR has an auto-LFG. It was terrible from the start. I think it depends on how it works a lot and there are definitely down-sides to it. If GW2 would ever get it, then please don't let it replace the current LFG.

[mindcircus.1506]

47 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

SWTOR has an auto-LFG. It was terrible from the start. I think it depends on how it works a lot and there are definitely down-sides to it. If GW2 would ever get it, then please don't let it replace the current LFG.

This.

Might also ask WoW players how they feel about LFR while you are at it.

[Zalavaaris.5329]

33 minutes ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

This.

Might also ask WoW players how they feel about LFR while you are at it.

LFR is terrible for the game. I miss the days of asking in trade chat for groups and actually being social to form a party. The only way WoW is any fun now is to do mythic raiding with a group of friends. Otherwise it's just a big afk fest of LFR trash. 

[Captain Kuro.8937]

8 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Or you can play the required content to get the rewards, instead of lying about not having time while you're spending hours on the forum when you could play as we've already established above 😛 

Yes , and we have established that you don't want other people to have  easy modes  in the Raids .

And that Legendary is bad for them .

And now they can't have Legionaries on the Open world .

 

Could you tell , how Raids well ended with your guidance all these 6 years ? 😛

Ohhh , yeah , they failed .. even more than PvP...

 

Now if you don't mind , you should focus on killing the mobs and let someone else to try  for a change 🙂

Edited August 29, 2021 by Captain Kuro.8937

[Zalavaaris.5329]

5 minutes ago, Captain Kuro.8937 said:

Yes , and we have established that you don't want other people to have  easy modes  in the Raids .

And that Legendary is bad for them .

And now they can't have Legionaries on the Open world .

 

Could you tell , how Raids well ended with your guidance all these 6 years ? 😛

Ohhh , yeah , they failed .. even more than PvP...

 

Now if you don't mind , you should focus on killing the mobs and let someone else to try  for a change 🙂

Did you add me back yet? I added you in game and I sent you a dm on here. You gonna raid? 

[Sobx.1758]

7 minutes ago, Captain Kuro.8937 said:

Yes , and we have established that you don't want other people to have  easy modes  in the Raids .

What does it have to do with anything? Also if you check the relevant thread, you'll see my opinion about easy modes and what you write here has nothing to do with reality you're making up here as you go, just because you didn't like getting called out on your lies. So no, we clearly didn't establish anything like that, we weren't even talking about that in this thread, so not sure where this conclusion is comming from.

Quote

And that Legendary is bad for them .

Again, what?

Quote

And now they can have Legionaries on the Open world .

Seriously, what are you even saying here? Maybe you should stop making up random stuff like this (whatever it's supposed to mean) and instead start engaging in a conversation. Maybe start with responding to the posts you've dodged before.

Quote

Could you tell , how Raids well ended with your guidance all these 6 years ? 🙂

My guidance? Again, what are you even talking about? And raids are doing k, whatever you think about it based on not being able to passively leech the rewards off the other players 🙂

Edited August 29, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Captain Kuro.8937]

6 hours ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

Did you add me back yet? I added you in game and I sent you a dm on here. You gonna raid? 

I will be there tommorow , at 00:00 server time  when the works ends .

Now if you don't mind , i having a conversation with her 🙂

[Zalavaaris.5329]

5 minutes ago, Captain Kuro.8937 said:

I will be there tommorow , at 00:00 server time  when the works ends .

Now if you don't mind , i having a conversation with her 🙂

Are you on EU or NA? 

[Captain Kuro.8937]

7 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

What does it have to do with anything? Also if you check the relevant thread, you'll see my opinion about easy modes and what you write here has nothing to do with reality you're making up here as you go, just because you didn't like getting called out on your lies. So no, we clearly didn't establish anything like that, we weren't even talking about that in this thread, so not sure where this conclusion is comming from.

Again, what?

Seriously, what are you even saying here? Maybe you should stop making up random stuff like this (whatever it's supposed to mean) and instead start engaging in a conversation. Maybe start with responding to the posts you've dodged before.

My guidance? Again, what are you even talking about?

When i ask you about  auto-LFG , which is essential the same dificulty and not an easy mode , or placing the boss in the Open world , you went monkey crazy . So don't tell i twist your words .

 

Because of your magnificent guidance  , Raids in the trouble they are .

And because you don't know how to change ,  you instead you are  trying to "score a single win" and then try to invalidate everything the other person said , with the "phrase " so you where lying ".

These kind of strats you used for your 5.000 posts ?

 

Atleast Zalavaaris , is taking the long route about inving me and when i can't come (i won't - the problem is the Raiding comminty , don't want them to kitten up Strikes) , he can name me liar afterwards

 

Thank you for your contribution on increasing the Raiding community , all these 6 years ...

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by Captain Kuro.8937

[Sobx.1758]

12 minutes ago, Captain Kuro.8937 said:

When i ask you about  auto-LFG

I already responded about auto-lfg multiple times, so feel free to stop making up random stuff about it and instead respond to what I actually said.

Quote

, which is essential the same dificulty and not an easy mode

Exactly, that's what you kept saying, so why are you somehow drawing any conclusions about "easy mode" above? 🤔

Quote

, or placing the boss in the Open world

If you want to do world bosses, you can already do them, have fun. This has nothing to do with raids, already responded to that, stop lying about what I said.

Quote

, you went monkey crazy . So don't tell i twist your words .

I didn't, responding to what you said and then you dodging it repeatedly isn't me "going monkey crazy", so next time try randomizing another personal insult from the lack of anything on-topic to response.

You don't just "twist my words", you're completely dodging what I said and then pretend I said something I didn't. As presented above.

Quote

Because of your magnificent guidance

Again, what "my guidance"? What are you talking about right now?

And -again- they're ok, you don't need to worry, you can hop in and play, already explained -and proved- to you how. And not just me, but also the others. 🙂 

Quote

Stay , killing PvE mobs ...

Yet another interesting insult attempt, but it's not me that tries to make the game easier or rather the rewards "more leechable" (and you wrote in this thread that's your goal, if it wasn't clear enough without that). So... I don't get the relevance of that.

 

Anyways, people offered you the help in multiple ways, so I wish you good luck with learning the content.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Captain Kuro.8937]

7 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

I already responded about auto-lfg multiple times, so feel free to stop making up random stuff about it and instead respond to what I actually said.

Exactly, that's what you kept saying, so why are you somehow drawing any conclusions about "easy mode" above? 🤔

If you want to do world bosses, you can already do them, have fun. This has nothing to do with raids, already responded to that, stop lying about what I said.

I didn't, responding to what you said and then you dodging it repeatedly isn't me "going monkey crazy", so next time try randomizing another personal insult from the lack of anything on-topic to response.

You don't just "twist my words", you're completely dodging what I said and then pretend I said something I didn't. As presented above.

Again, what "my guidance"? What are you talking about right now?

And -again- they're ok, you don't need to worry, you can hop in and play, already explained -and proved- to you how. And not just me, but also the others. 🙂 

Yet another interesting insult attempt, but it's not me that tries to make the game easier or rather the rewards "more leechable". So... I don'tget the relevance of that.

What is exaclty the problem with auto LFG , or placing the boss in the open world which automates the proccess of placing 10 people to the open World ?

If you have mad skills and you feel that the rest are "below" you skill lvl you can spent 10 min in Looking in the LFG chatbox trying to find the appropriate group .

[Sobx.1758]

3 minutes ago, Captain Kuro.8937 said:

What is exaclty the problem with auto LFG , or placing the boss in the open world which automates the proccess of placing 10 people to the open World ?

If you have mad skills and you feel that the rest are "below" you skill lvl you can spent 10 min in Looking in the LFG chatbox trying to find the appropriate group .

See, you keep dodging the answers and repeating the questions I ALREADY responded in this thread before (more than once). If that's what you plan to keep doing then as I said above: Anyways, people offered you the help in multiple ways, so I wish you good luck with learning the content.

Sorry your provocations and namecalling didn't work, if you want to continue anything, start with responding to the previous posts. 

Edited August 29, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Captain Kuro.8937]

7 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

See, you keep dodging the answers and repeating the questions I ALREADY responded in this thread before (more than once).

If that's what you plan to keep doing then as I said above: Anyways, people offered you the help in multiple ways, so I wish you good luck with learning the content.

Tell me ... what ..is the problem ..with those 2 mechanics ?

They will make the Raid community more  impersonal ? Like they won't care for each other ?

If i my say , the Raiding community did a great job in that and the majority don't care if they implant  Raids or not in EoD

Edited August 29, 2021 by Captain Kuro.8937

[Sobx.1758]

On 8/29/2021 at 5:58 PM, Captain Kuro.8937 said:

Tell me ... what ..is the problem ..with those 2 mechanics ?

They will make the Raid community more  impersonal ? Like they won't care for each other ?

If i my say , the Raiding community did a great job in that and the majority don't care if they implant  Raids or not in EoD

Already responded to these questions earlier, multiple times, so feel free to re-read the comment chain. You complained about going in circles, so I won't. Re-read the answers and respond to those.

And it's great that you're so worried about the raids and raiding community. Next step: open lfg, join the squads and actually start playing them.